IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-09-22
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08:55:00 <andythenorth> Pikka: making anything? o_O
09:02:25 <Supercheese> We've got Pineapple, so what's next must be... Piña Colada?
09:06:36 <Pikka> maybe some small pineapple releases while I work on the Next Big Thing. for the moment, mostly uni work...
09:06:46 <Pikka> then I'm playing postman pat over christmas
09:06:55 <V453000> obvious question: what is next big thing? :>
09:07:15 <Pikka> I'll let you know once I know ;)
09:29:01 <Pikka> what's next from andy and V?
09:29:17 <V453000> nothing from me probably
09:29:45 <V453000> could at least attempt to make some releases of the wip work before I fuck off entirely
09:31:25 <V453000> I think BRIX is very close to looking at least as complete as RAWR ... usable, not complete
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09:36:07 <V453000> I got a job for factorio, idkf if you know the game
09:36:32 <V453000> somewhere I kind of want to keep making things for openttd here and there, but it is probably just nostalgia and force of habit
09:37:20 <V453000> apart from simply "beign a job", the community is so much more alive, anything we make gets TONS of feedback from all over everywhere, there is WAY less technical problems with creating graphics, and there is a lot of room to make new things
09:37:29 <V453000> so idk what is next :)
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10:53:21 <Supercheese> I look forward to your work for it :)
10:53:52 <Supercheese> just released my first (tiny) mod for it, in fact
10:54:49 <Supercheese> and all mods are essentially just source code, like if OTTD just read .nml files directly
10:55:10 <Supercheese> and associated graphics, of course
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11:36:24 <Wolf01> about factorio... how do i update to 0.12? i'm stuck with 0.11.22 and i can't find any update :|
11:38:29 <Wolf01> oh, they are experimental
12:39:48 <Pikka> the cylinders are in the middle so that the steam connection can go through the rotating pivot, giving a better seal than pipes which have to move sideways too.
12:45:54 <planetmaker> commit it, peter1138 ;)
12:55:22 <peter1138> nah, nobody was interested in it
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16:15:14 <Wolf01> just add 16M colors on the dropdown
16:21:14 <planetmaker> why is it pointless?
16:21:47 <planetmaker> if colourful pixels are pointless, then is the entire game as well
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16:29:52 <peter1138> yes that's true, it is pointless
16:31:52 <andythenorth> it’s always pointless
16:32:00 * andythenorth spreads light and joy
16:32:56 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause makes a good argument for just not giving a fuck about offending people
16:34:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not saying never care. but the 80-20 rule applies
16:34:58 <Eddi|zuHause> if you don't offend the other 80%, you've done a good enough job
16:35:41 <andythenorth> I thought it was well put
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18:40:13 <Alberth> new firses appear all the time :)
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18:54:18 <andythenorth> moar firses Alberth
18:54:23 <andythenorth> translations, innit :)
18:54:46 <Alberth> all translators will be happy
18:56:11 <andythenorth> somehow musa encourages releasing
18:56:23 <andythenorth> although the instructions could be…
18:56:26 <andythenorth> dunno, are there any?
18:56:37 <andythenorth> I read --help, but I’m
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19:22:39 <Alberth> someone made the BB makefile target, it wasn't me, I think
19:23:05 <Alberth> oh, bee reward had weird costs
19:23:23 * andythenorth should look at BB features again
19:23:31 <andythenorth> (unrelated to musa)
19:23:44 <andythenorth> < 1000t goals doesn’t work that well in my current game
19:28:14 <andythenorth> just weird to build a route for 350t of food :)
19:28:24 <andythenorth> logically, the amount is irrelevant really
19:28:31 <andythenorth> but logic is not always the reason
19:30:59 <Alberth> I find it kind of fun to have such low requests
19:31:10 <andythenorth> maybe I should overlook them :)
19:31:17 <Alberth> but maybe increase faster in the beginning?
19:31:32 <Alberth> ie making them less often appearing
19:31:45 <andythenorth> BB is fun, just feel like I should contribute more :P
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19:32:05 <Alberth> sounds like a good reason to me :)
19:45:17 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27403 trunk/src/lang/polish.txt (2015-09-22 19:45:10 +0200 )
19:45:18 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:45:19 <DorpsGek> polish - 7 changes by McZapkie
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20:42:49 <dlhero> one mechanic I haven't quite understood...
20:43:20 <dlhero> with firs, I produce esp/fsp at a machine shop and then *transfer* these to two different of stations
20:43:36 <dlhero> the fsp station is rated outstanding
20:43:43 <dlhero> the esp station is rated poor
20:43:51 <dlhero> does that affect esp production at original station?
20:52:39 <dlhero> well I had the same amount of trains (with almost same journey) and esp had rating 18% outputing just a fraction of fsp which was rated at >50%
20:53:26 <dlhero> anyway I think it was an issue of too few trains.
21:04:19 <andythenorth> eh, if we hit the ~16k articulated vehicle ID limit in Iron Horse, is it fixable in OpenTTD?
21:05:12 <frosch123> you need grf version 9 with 32bit callback results :)
21:06:10 <frosch123> or was that grf version 10?
21:06:43 <frosch123> (i leave it to your imagination whether that is 2 or 8 versions ahead)
21:07:29 <frosch123> i am quite sure eddi has an opinion whether grf versions should be counted decimal or hexadecimal
21:08:40 <andythenorth> it takes a while to draw enough trains to use that many IDs :P
21:08:55 <andythenorth> currently I am faffing around trying to micro-manage ranges of IDs
21:09:00 <Alberth> add a isron horse2b :p
21:09:14 <andythenorth> that is my plan b
21:09:54 <Alberth> how do you get 16k vehicle IDs without insane numbers of trains?
21:10:30 <andythenorth> and 3 part vehicles
21:10:46 <Taede> just for comparison sake, how many vehicle id's does 2cc have?
21:10:48 <frosch123> Alberth: he reserves ranges of 1024 ids for specfic purposes, and then deprecates thenm
21:10:51 <andythenorth> and ID ranges for types of vehicles that are reserved, but often not 100% used
21:10:56 <andythenorth> also what frosch said :P
21:11:21 <frosch123> should grf version 9 increade the grfid to 64bit?
21:11:34 <Alberth> make it 128 bit, just to be safe :p
21:11:34 <andythenorth> Road Hog I just start at 0 and count up in 10s :P
21:11:59 <andythenorth> yeah 64bit grfid, we can reserve acres per author
21:16:35 <Alberth> you can just number each roster from 0 onward, right?
21:18:03 <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> (i leave it to your imagination whether that is 2 or 8 versions ahead) <-- obviously, you should skip 9 and go straight for 10
21:19:06 <Alberth> thus avoid any problem with 95 and 98, sounds fair
21:19:21 <frosch123> i don't think grf verison 8 is that bad
21:19:35 <andythenorth> Alberth: I can yes, that is an alternative
21:19:53 <andythenorth> I have to faff about a bit more, and action 2 chains are dangerous
21:20:18 <andythenorth> would be unclear which vehicle ID was being used in cbs
21:20:18 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: why do you need ranges for each roster?
21:20:34 <andythenorth> ‘need’ is a strong word
21:20:38 <andythenorth> the implementation happened that way
21:20:40 <Eddi|zuHause> CETS works fine without ranges
21:20:49 <Alberth> otherwise he wouldn't run out of ids?
21:20:56 <andythenorth> it was an artefact of the actual design for the set
21:20:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a range for first, second and third vehicle parts
21:21:15 <andythenorth> yeah, that would also work
21:21:31 <andythenorth> I am picking least-work refactoring at this point though
21:21:34 <Eddi|zuHause> with 0x1000 possible vehicles each
21:22:14 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i have a "company" column in the tracking table, which basically is the same as your rosters, i imagine
21:22:37 <Eddi|zuHause> there is no point in encoding that into the vehicle ID
21:23:17 <peter1138> if you care about vehicle ids you're probably doing something silly/wrong
21:23:23 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause I am +1 to the argument, and -1 to refactoring existing code to accomodate that
21:24:22 <Eddi|zuHause> if CETS reaches 4k vehicles, i get a problem ;)
21:26:36 <andythenorth> I keep this quote at the top of my to-do list
21:26:37 <andythenorth> “"Eddi|zuHause:if you know it won't change, there's no point in refactoring””
21:27:08 <Eddi|zuHause> yay, out of context quote.
21:27:20 <andythenorth> was w.r.t FIRS, but eh, it’s a good quote
21:27:36 <andythenorth> Iron Horse might make it to 2000 vehicles, and it will take ~10 years to do that
21:27:45 <andythenorth> but eh, we did silly 3 part vehicles
21:28:03 <Alberth> still only 6k vehicles
21:28:06 <andythenorth> and I lazy-allocated ranges in blocks of 10 or so to make counting easy :P
21:28:25 <andythenorth> and sub-divided into stupid allocations for ‘engines’, ‘wagons’, ‘extra engines’, ‘extra wagons'
21:28:32 <andythenorth> oh and a special range for ‘wtf'
21:28:39 <andythenorth> I bin that, move on
21:28:53 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that probably was silly
21:29:04 <Alberth> how is engines different from extra engines?
21:29:30 <Eddi|zuHause> the only requirement for my vehicle IDs was that they should be stable across adding/removing vehicles
21:29:48 <andythenorth> this is what arises from trying to stick to arbitrary limits for number of vehicles
21:29:55 <andythenorth> that is a BAD FEATURE
21:30:10 <andythenorth> where is that pikka? :P :)
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21:31:35 <Eddi|zuHause> if you turn upside down, maybe you recognize him easier?
21:31:48 <Demosthenex> so, is it worthwhile to tack on a mail car or passenger car to all my trains?
21:32:02 <andythenorth> “there will always be 24 ‘standard’ engines, and 24 or less narrow gauge / metro / maglev” :P
21:32:23 <andythenorth> yay, until we start on roster number 2 :P
21:32:30 <Eddi|zuHause> Demosthenex: depends what you're trying to achieve
21:32:45 <andythenorth> if you want to transport mail or pax, add those cars :)
21:41:31 <Demosthenex> i meant, it seems to be produced and pile up, would it produce a background income if i just have a car on each train?
21:43:14 <Demosthenex> also if i turn on autoreplace old vehicles in my options, does that affect all players on the multieplayer game or just me?
21:44:03 <frosch123> if you select it, it says "company setting" in the bottom panel
21:58:50 <Demosthenex> can i change station legnth?
21:59:20 <Eddi|zuHause> you can add tiles to it afterwards
21:59:50 <Eddi|zuHause> or you can remove them by using the bulldozer tool (NOT the dynamite tool, that kills the whole station)
22:10:43 <Demosthenex> that's what i missed.ok
22:10:50 <Demosthenex> and adding tiles is just adding a station of length 1?
22:11:45 <frosch123> yes, but you can also overbuild stations
22:11:59 <frosch123> sometimes that is needed to achieve a certain visual appeareance
22:13:47 <_dp_> why is in not allowed to build stuff under vehicles?
22:14:17 <_dp_> I understand that removing can cause some issues but just adding something doesn't seem to pose any problem
22:15:30 <frosch123> well, last year someone allowed to build signals under trains
22:15:43 <frosch123> now we have a flyspray bug, which crashes servers and noone cares fixing
22:16:21 <frosch123> so "doesn't seem to pose any problem" is hard to tell
22:16:55 <_dp_> hm, which bug? never had any crashes even though I use it regularly
22:19:47 <frosch123> maybe 6142, but it's not a crash, but something with placing/removing signals
22:21:01 <frosch123> there are two other bugs about yapf and yapp running in infinite loops
22:21:16 <frosch123> not sure whether there is a fourth :)
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22:29:26 <Demosthenex> so what's the fastest way to grow a city?
22:30:07 <frosch123> do you really want to know?
22:30:36 <frosch123> or do you prefer to figure it out yourself?
22:31:08 <Sylf> Unleash 1 bus in the town
22:31:13 <_dp_> ye, it crashes trains, not servers) well, that's kinda expected when you meddle with signals if you ask me ^^
22:31:55 <_dp_> btw, it may not even be related to building under trains, I can get pbs to show wrong green even without that
22:32:32 <_dp_> basically by removing signal in front of it
22:33:06 <Demosthenex> heh, so my norm of surrounding a town with my own bus service is ok
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22:34:49 <_dp_> Demosthenex, surrounding may not always work, you need 5 active stations in town zone to get max growth rate
22:35:50 <_dp_> also small towns can be boosted by funding buildings every other day (aka powerfunding)
22:39:08 <andythenorth> building stuff under vehicles is unrealism
22:39:40 <Demosthenex> wow, that's a bit over the top
22:42:52 <Sylf> It's simple stuff, really
22:43:24 <Sylf> 5 stations serviced at a frequency (1 bus is enough)
22:43:45 <Sylf> And don't have dead-end roads
22:44:25 <_dp_> and fund buildings every 3 months if that's enabled
22:44:32 <Sylf> Eliminate any road intersections for a better growth performance.
22:44:54 <Sylf> That's about all mfb's page is saying
22:46:17 <_dp_> dead-ends are a less important, as long as you have enough roads in some sane layout
22:48:17 <Sylf> Write a game script that perpetually expand any cities
22:48:21 <_dp_> it is 1.5.0 though, there are some minor changes since then
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22:50:33 <DorpsGek> DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 11 minutes and 24 seconds ago: <andythenorth> :P
22:52:41 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: stuff is back to normal
22:53:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i did notice that :p
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