IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-09-11
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03:00:46 <Eddi|zuHause> forum backup, i haven't hit that for quite a while :p
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10:44:24 <planetmaker> it's always amusing again to see those e-mails like "help, I was banned from server XY. I did nothing wrong. Can you help me?"
10:46:32 <Eddi|zuHause> what do you mean "again"?
10:46:53 <Eddi|zuHause> did you not get them for a while?
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10:58:38 <planetmaker> we get such e-mail on average every few weeks. Lately they seem to come more often
10:59:13 <planetmaker> and always those people seem incapable to apply some logic and trying to search for the webpage of the server
10:59:44 <planetmaker> and it's not like reddit and btpro and the other major servers have no websites
10:59:44 <V453000> did people get more retarded? :D
11:04:51 <planetmaker> maybe. But probably not
11:05:23 <planetmaker> As Einstein said: there's two things which are infinite: space and stupidity. And he isn't sure about the former ;)
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14:25:34 <andythenorth> how do I persuade bundles server that latest FIRS release is 2.0.0 not 1.4.4?
14:26:17 <Eddi|zuHause> rename the branch into default
14:27:01 <andythenorth> not sure that’s wise yet
14:27:10 <andythenorth> makes sense though
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14:32:32 * andythenorth attempts to musa
14:32:40 <planetmaker> andythenorth, LATEST is always the latest build. Literally as to what was pushed last
14:32:51 <planetmaker> andythenorth, if that didn't work it might be a bug there somewhere
14:33:12 <andythenorth> planetmaker: got time to investigate?
14:33:31 <andythenorth> or it could wait
14:33:49 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i don't see how that could work, as you could push multiple branches at the same time
14:33:50 <planetmaker> I'll have a look now
14:34:02 <andythenorth> planetmaker: there is a 2.0.0-alpha tag on the snakebite branch
14:34:11 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, yes, you could. Then it might be undeterministic
14:34:43 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i find it way more likely that it just pulls the default branch and makes whatever comes out of there
14:34:49 <planetmaker> but I know that I didn't put there any fancy logic or so. Just the newest tagged build is made 'LATEST'
14:35:11 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, and no, I search for tags and those are built - whatever branch they are in
14:35:30 <planetmaker> the branch has no meaning for taged builds
14:35:39 <planetmaker> or rather no influence
14:36:22 <andythenorth> planetmaker: does it read the tag name in any way?
14:36:24 <planetmaker> as to the push builds: it builds the head of each branch being pushed. I think I changed it so that not only default branch works
14:36:32 <andythenorth> i.e. does it need x.y.z format?
14:36:50 <planetmaker> how the tag looks like *should* not matter
14:36:52 <andythenorth> bundles certainly builds on push correctly
14:38:09 <planetmaker> hm, so it didn't build 2.0.0?
14:38:55 <andythenorth> jenkins reported no changs
14:39:05 <planetmaker> oh, it tried. but it failed to build
14:39:15 <planetmaker> no changes... strange
14:39:38 <planetmaker> 18:52:23 abort: unknown revision '2.0.0'!
14:39:47 * andythenorth is afk for 10 mins
14:39:54 <planetmaker> so something went wrong :)
14:39:55 <andythenorth> but the history is all there to see :)
14:43:00 * planetmaker discards the idea
14:43:19 * Hiddenfunstuff dumpsterdives the idea
14:43:59 * planetmaker revisits the idea :P
14:44:27 <planetmaker> update failed... not jumping branches, it seems
14:44:36 <planetmaker> which is a failure in my build script
14:55:35 <andythenorth> it jumps fine for regular commits :)
14:55:56 * andythenorth doesn’t know how hg tags are implemented, but aren’t they just pointers to a hash?
14:55:58 <planetmaker> andythenorth, FYI: it seems that it's a problem with the (ancient) mercurial version on the server. It fails to update to tags with hyphen (-). The same thing works locally with my more modern mercurial
14:56:10 <andythenorth> oh it’s that mercurial bug
14:56:14 <andythenorth> I’m sure you found that before :)
14:56:33 <planetmaker> well, the 2.2.2 on the server is rather ancient. I don't use that for a very long time :D
14:57:05 <planetmaker> current is 3.5.1. And there's one minor version bump every 3 months. Go figure how old it is :D
14:57:41 <dlhero> that's old for software these days
14:57:44 <Eddi|zuHause> that's "only" 3 years :p
14:58:07 <planetmaker> andythenorth, I guess I'll update mercurial on jenkins server soonish to fix this issue
14:58:25 <planetmaker> dlhero, for a server that's not necessarily 'old'
14:58:49 <planetmaker> it's what shipped with the distro which runs it. But that might need updating somewhen, too :P
14:59:42 <andythenorth> never update servers :P
14:59:50 <planetmaker> :) Only when needed
14:59:53 <andythenorth> wait for it to die, then migrate all services to a new one
14:59:54 <planetmaker> it's enough work that way
15:00:08 <planetmaker> so... they hopefully never die :P
15:00:24 <planetmaker> or would work the same on new machine ;)
15:00:37 <dlhero> planetmaker: I dont' disagree but I consider git/hg crucial services
15:00:45 <dlhero> prefer to have the latest versions/fixes blabla
15:00:46 <Eddi|zuHause> "doesn't work with - in the name" is as good as "dead"
15:01:07 <dlhero> occasionally skimming through the Changlog as well
15:02:36 <Eddi|zuHause> really, you should have a regular update schedule. the rarer an update gets, the more likely it won't work
15:03:15 <Eddi|zuHause> (remember to have backups)
15:04:00 <andythenorth> next problem: how do I musa? :P
15:04:04 <andythenorth> I wrote an ini file
15:04:10 <andythenorth> but how do I upload the tar?
15:04:20 <andythenorth> the forum thread says only grfs
15:06:43 <planetmaker> musa asks you for all files (grf, doc, changelog, license). It doesn't handle a complete tar
15:07:18 <Eddi|zuHause> who thought that was a good idea?
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15:16:55 <andythenorth> “error: you are not listed as author for this content"
15:17:17 <andythenorth> I have ‘andythenorth’ in the .ini file
15:17:32 <andythenorth> I don’t know who the authors are for FIRS
15:17:51 <planetmaker> andythenorth, you need to be listed as author in bananas
15:17:57 <Eddi|zuHause> honestly, i never actually used musa, but when i last looked at it, it seemed somewhat poorly documented and half-assed. like a proof of concept prototype that somebody said "ah well, just ship it"
15:18:05 <andythenorth> there’s no way to know who the authors are in bananas…
15:18:09 <andythenorth> I don’t have mySQL access
15:18:10 <planetmaker> i.e. the user who uploads FIRS? was it you or openttdcoop?
15:18:22 <planetmaker> then that's the user you need to list there, too
15:18:33 <planetmaker> same credentials. You can only use it to add additional ones
15:18:40 <planetmaker> and then next time you can upload as andy
15:19:44 <andythenorth> license.txt is unpackageable
15:20:04 <planetmaker> yes, unless you select 'custom'. But as you use a default license, no need. They're stored in bananas
15:20:36 <andythenorth> eh, it’s gone and done
15:20:58 <andythenorth> 2.0.0-alpha on bananaramas
15:21:16 <andythenorth> is bananas web UI considered dead?
15:21:26 <andythenorth> or just limping?
15:22:15 <planetmaker> limping. And imho in need of improvement :)
15:22:34 <planetmaker> i.e. adding new additional authors only works via musa. As does uploading big content
15:22:50 <planetmaker> but it should return to allowing 'normal' uploads and edits to the entry
15:23:15 <andythenorth> has anyone read the logs?
15:23:22 <planetmaker> And tbh, it is being looked into... but it's tricky as the logs are rather inconclusive as to the reasons of the errors
15:23:25 <andythenorth> ‘exception’ is not very detailed :)
15:24:02 <planetmaker> but the logs are not really more detailed from what I understood (haven#t looked myself). Ancient software sucks sometimes ;)
15:24:28 <planetmaker> gotta leave for a bit
15:29:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm going back to my hanseatic republic of germany
15:33:17 <andythenorth> until the bug reports arrive :P
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17:14:52 <andythenorth> if I’ve released an alpha
17:14:59 <andythenorth> e.g. 2.0.0-alpha
17:15:05 <andythenorth> and then I release a trivial bug fix :P
17:15:09 <andythenorth> what version is that o_O
17:17:23 <Alberth> 2.0.1-alpha is also an option perhaps
17:18:03 <andythenorth> nah, that implies the 2.0.0 release happened :)
17:18:12 <andythenorth> if it was RC I would have done RC1, RC2 etc
17:18:19 <andythenorth> but I didn’t think about more alphas :P
17:19:25 <Alberth> gamma, delta, epsilon ...
17:21:03 <Alberth> lazy friday afternoon :)
17:21:24 <planetmaker> not really, preparing food for tomorrow's picknick :D
17:21:54 <Alberth> sounds great already :)
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17:25:42 * Sylf is still waiting for version omega
17:26:56 * andythenorth considers scripting the musa upload :P
17:27:03 <andythenorth> over-engineering, probably :P
17:27:56 <Alberth> andythenorth: copy-paste the BB one in the makefile?
17:28:17 <andythenorth> is there ‘make release’ or so
17:28:22 * andythenorth will look later :)
17:30:10 <planetmaker> andythenorth, scripting the musa upload is not really difficult; I actually considered it for devzone... wonder whether it's worthwhile or whether it results in much crap being uploaded :P
17:30:29 <andythenorth> mostly I’d just template the tag :P
17:30:36 <andythenorth> the rest is fine
17:30:39 <planetmaker> how can you template a tag?
17:30:46 <planetmaker> or what do you mean with that?
17:30:55 <andythenorth> text substituion in the .ini file
17:31:12 <andythenorth> pass the tag as an arg, or read it from hg or so
17:31:40 <andythenorth> I only release occasionally, more work to script and document than do it manually :P
17:34:08 <planetmaker> how's that different than what the Makefile and CF do?
17:34:36 <planetmaker> the Makefile writes the version to the grf. And the CF reads the tag information and publishes accordingly as well
17:34:57 <andythenorth> I would likely do it with the Makefile
17:35:05 <andythenorth> or is that unwise?
17:35:11 <planetmaker> the tag can be read from the info. And the commit hook actually detects them being present and triggers the builds accordingly
17:35:30 <andythenorth> edit the .ini file, run the musa command
17:35:36 <andythenorth> I dunno, seem over-engineered tbh
17:35:41 <planetmaker> oh, you mean editing musa.ini?
17:36:08 <planetmaker> there's something like that somewhere... I forgot which repo. Frosch made that :P busybee?
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17:37:17 <planetmaker> actually I've been thinking of making it a .devzone configuration: automatic upload using musa
17:37:28 <planetmaker> I guess you would be a customer to that?
17:37:35 <planetmaker> only for releases, of course
17:37:40 <andythenorth> push tag, everything happens automatically
17:37:52 <andythenorth> it’s all on the coop account anyway
17:38:41 <planetmaker> well, one would probably need to upload the first iteration manually in order to allow updates by the openttdcoop account. But that's done for most of your grfs anyway
17:38:58 <planetmaker> well, I shall have a look
17:46:33 <Alberth> next step, automagic sprite creator :)
17:46:57 <planetmaker> andythenorth, what's the bug which alluke tries to report? (FIRS thread)
17:47:18 <planetmaker> Alberth, ask Zeph. He has something like that... procedural sprite generator ;)
17:47:29 <planetmaker> iirc for houses, maybe for other stuff, too
17:47:47 <andythenorth> ha he has a pathological number of scrap yars
17:48:17 <planetmaker> happens in a run-down economy :P
17:48:33 <andythenorth> dunno why that is
17:48:36 <planetmaker> and tbh, from the screenies I can't tell whether those are user-placed
17:48:39 <andythenorth> but that’s what betas are for
17:48:52 <planetmaker> nah. I'm invited for dinner now :P
17:49:07 <planetmaker> hm.... well, ok. Just because it's fun :)
17:52:36 <andythenorth> he hasn’t specified which economy?
17:52:40 <Alberth> yeah, but that's Zeph himself :p
17:53:05 <andythenorth> tells nothing :)
17:53:46 <Alberth> random guess, default?
18:01:16 <Alberth> hmm, perhaps very early or so?
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18:07:06 <Alberth> temperate basic 1900 gives me a town with 3 scrap yards
18:07:32 <andythenorth> might just be the value of the probability property
18:13:20 <Alberth> don't get more than 3 though
18:14:46 <Alberth> I wonder whether he plays with some patched version, his filenames "18.36.03" looks like a real-time clock
18:15:45 <Alberth> hmm, maybe just the time stamp of the screenshot
18:16:25 <andythenorth> I can’t replicate
18:16:34 <andythenorth> I tried industries ‘high’ and towns ‘very low'
18:16:39 <andythenorth> on Temperate Basic
18:17:11 <Alberth> yeah, not in the degree that he shows
18:29:51 <andythenorth> I can’t replicate the pink either :P
18:52:29 <Alberth> the only explanation is that he didn't update the newgrf settings before generating a new map, imho
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19:21:58 <Valle> Good evening. Is there anyone using the JGR Patchpack 0.4.1 in multiplayer in here?
19:28:03 <Alberth> you may also want to try #tycoon?
19:28:26 <Alberth> many users here don't actually play the game :)
19:32:41 <Valle> Roger, going to try that channel. Having everyone in here play while logged into the chat would be a bit mad. ;-)
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20:15:36 <andythenorth> happens for me sometimes
20:16:02 <andythenorth> I ignore it because I assume it’s due to me changing grfs underneath a running OpenTTD
20:19:44 <frosch123> hmm, there is no firs.nml on bunldes
20:21:22 <frosch123> 321 changesets, 13 files updated :p
20:35:09 <frosch123> andythenorth: did you release the beta on the same day as the broken alpha?
20:35:25 <andythenorth> I released -alpha then -alpha-1
20:35:43 <frosch123> newgrf version is "number of days since 2000", so only changes once per day
20:36:02 <frosch123> if the broken and fixed are committed on the same date, their version numbers will be equal
20:36:07 <frosch123> and ottd cannot tell which is newer
20:41:35 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: alluke was last seen in #openttd 5 days, 3 hours, 15 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: <alluke> theres the report
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21:27:30 <Xaroth|Work> watch a random youtube vid, then, once it's done, click one of the suggested videos from the list
21:27:41 <Xaroth|Work> see how long you last until you get to the really weird stuff
21:28:44 <frosch123> start at "i like trains", and try to get somewhere sane
21:29:07 <andythenorth> I did the YT already
21:29:13 <andythenorth> as much as I can be arsed
21:29:19 <andythenorth> daily goal achieved :P
21:29:41 <Xaroth|Work> frosch123: i usually try that after i found the weird stuff
21:32:46 <andythenorth> was going to include those in HEQS
21:32:50 <andythenorth> but eh, didn’t happen :)
21:32:56 <andythenorth> needs roadtypes :P
21:35:06 <andythenorth> they are pretty cool
21:35:21 <andythenorth> I have photos of them with long long trains
21:39:44 <andythenorth> eh, this is mislabelled, it’s a bulldozer, not a lombard
21:39:54 <andythenorth> impressive though
21:45:37 <andythenorth> auto-updating 1.3GB
21:46:12 <andythenorth> in the old days, I could just play the game
21:46:32 <andythenorth> ‘the game’ = Euro Truck Simulator :P
21:46:33 <Wolf01> but it's for your good
21:47:40 <Wolf01> i don't know if continue to play with train fever or just leave it there waiting for another update which makes rail crossings possible
21:48:09 * andythenorth might play OpenTTD
21:49:59 <Wolf01> i would play ottd too, but i don't want to set a good combination of grfs.. it takes hours
21:50:56 <andythenorth> shareable preset?
21:51:16 <Wolf01> yes, i always forget to put in something, like some weird station set or the waypoints or the trams...
21:51:29 <andythenorth> FIRS, Iron Horse, Termite, Squid, AV9, Road Hog, TAI, OpenGFX+ Airports
21:51:48 <andythenorth> eh, forgot CHIPS
21:52:09 <ST2> and to mention: FIRS 2.0.0 alpha1
21:52:14 <andythenorth> I should just put them all in andythenorth.grf
21:52:19 <andythenorth> and pikka can make pikka.grf
21:52:41 <andythenorth> choose an economy, all industries, cargos and vehicles match
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22:15:21 <Supercheese> one grf to rule them all
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22:28:06 <alluke> andu i heard you've been looking for me?
22:45:44 <andythenorth> alluke: which ottd version is that FIRS screenshot from?
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22:51:51 <andythenorth> which FIRS economy? o_O
22:52:00 <andythenorth> I can’t replicate it
22:53:10 <alluke> i noticed that i had set amount of cities to 3
22:53:16 <alluke> that might have triggered it
22:55:10 <Sylf> 3 cities on the whole map?
22:58:20 <andythenorth> yeah, I have nothing for that
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