IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-09-10
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08:48:15 <andythenorth> conveyors will cover all sins :P
08:49:51 <__ln__> there's a huge grey arrow floating in the sky
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08:51:14 <andythenorth> fuck, must be a bug :o
09:04:32 * andythenorth can’t handle sledging before the second cup of coffee :(
09:12:18 <planetmaker> I like that version
09:17:11 <andythenorth> but I’ll do it better
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11:12:54 <planetmaker> the 2nd small hut on the pit border is really good
11:13:10 <planetmaker> or rather 2nd and 3rd with belt
11:13:42 <planetmaker> a definitive win overall over previous iterations
11:14:21 <andythenorth> I am going to swap the positions of the big silo / crusher buildings
11:14:27 <andythenorth> and make one of them smaller
11:17:09 * andythenorth has drawn and deleted a lot of nice pixels for this industry
11:18:56 <Supercheese> Wow, but this latest one is smashingly good
11:19:26 <Supercheese> I love the way CHIPS dirt stations can integrate
11:19:57 <Supercheese> since the dirt now matches more readily
11:29:49 <andythenorth> CHIPS has been the other moving part
11:30:07 <andythenorth> I haven’t shown that in the other 23 ‘improved’ screenshots :P
11:30:14 <andythenorth> but I need it to work with CHIPS platforms :P
11:39:57 <andythenorth> “this improvement brought to you by…”
11:40:00 <andythenorth> 5 second FIRS compiles
11:59:23 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i still have 2 problems with that:
11:59:35 <Eddi|zuHause> 1) the conveyor belt should end at the buildings in all layouts
11:59:56 <Eddi|zuHause> 2) the buildings on the SW end stick out like a sore thumb, they should be rotated
12:00:49 <andythenorth> this approach requires sprites to change between layouts
12:00:52 <andythenorth> sprites don’t do that
12:01:22 <Eddi|zuHause> just use different tiles for the rotations?
12:01:39 <Eddi|zuHause> one layout uses tiles ABC and the second BCD?
12:02:45 * andythenorth could run the conveyor on all sides
12:02:58 <Eddi|zuHause> drop the layout with buildings on SE side, and have the end of the conveyor belt in a place where it is next to the buldings on SW and NW side
12:03:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. move the NW buildings one tile to the corner
12:03:48 <Eddi|zuHause> and have the SW buildings on that same corner
12:07:34 <andythenorth> drop the SE or SW?
12:07:39 <andythenorth> the SW is the one that looks bad
12:09:22 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i implied that the SW one gets rotated buildings to look better
12:09:31 <andythenorth> that would need new sprites
12:09:48 <Eddi|zuHause> the old one had rotated buildings?
12:09:55 <andythenorth> I’m not convinced that layout with the sticking out SW buildings adds more placement options
12:09:57 <andythenorth> and it looks bad
12:10:05 <andythenorth> and variety is pointless if it looks bad
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12:29:44 * andythenorth deletes that one
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13:21:51 <andythenorth> the second conveyor conveniently located by the animated bulldozer
13:21:57 <andythenorth> so I’m calling that serendipity
13:23:48 <Eddi|zuHause> the fence disappears when a station is placed?
13:24:09 <andythenorth> that’s a FIRS feature, which is perhaps a mis-feature at this specific industry
13:24:13 <Eddi|zuHause> what about truck stops?
13:24:36 <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably alright
13:24:49 <planetmaker> makes sense, I think
13:25:53 <Eddi|zuHause> now one small detail left: what's the reason for the different ground tiles between buildings and pit? why not all-dirt or all-grass?
13:26:57 <andythenorth> pit looks weird with dirt edges
13:27:08 <andythenorth> I have been wondering about using a part-grass terrain tile
13:27:15 <andythenorth> then I could delete the conveyors
13:27:22 <andythenorth> they only exist to cover the gap
13:27:56 <andythenorth> I tried buildings on grass, looks stupid
13:28:06 <andythenorth> I tried pit on mud tiles, looks stupid
13:29:00 <Eddi|zuHause> keep the conveyors, they look good
13:29:53 <Eddi|zuHause> although the back conveyor looks a bit odd starting in the water, maybe move it back a few pixels so it starts on the sand
13:31:42 <andythenorth> it’s making a weird angle with the pile
13:31:51 <V453000> this is quite awesome andy
13:32:14 <andythenorth> is ’awesome’ a synonym for ‘massively over-engineered’?
13:32:15 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i mean start on the NE beach, away from the pile
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13:33:31 <V453000> would be great to see some movement on the belts
13:34:15 <andythenorth> just alternate pixels
13:34:24 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the crane needs to go up closed, and down open
13:34:42 <andythenorth> for realisms yes
13:34:51 <andythenorth> for not having to draw more sprites, no
13:35:04 <andythenorth> it reverses the sequence currently
13:35:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i think you have skewed optimization goals :p
13:35:15 <andythenorth> also I tried drawing the bucket closed, and it looked like a blob
13:35:48 <Eddi|zuHause> and you need this start/stop animation thing
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13:35:59 <Eddi|zuHause> permanent animation is annoying
13:36:23 <andythenorth> more interestingly, I need to replace the base set sprites for bauxite mine, copper mine, diamond mine and iron ore mine
13:36:32 <andythenorth> which is challenging
13:36:50 <planetmaker> you don't need to replace the sprites but just invent the industries anew. Much easier :P
13:36:58 <andythenorth> replace / draw anew
13:37:10 <andythenorth> improving the opengfx sprites would be the easy route :)
13:37:20 <andythenorth> but the iron ore mine is daft
13:37:33 <andythenorth> deep mines all, or more bloody open pits?
13:49:34 <andythenorth> eh, also there is a time window for boosting secondary production by combining input cargos
13:49:40 <andythenorth> FIRS v1 has it as 30 days
13:49:49 <andythenorth> FIRS v2 I set it to 90 days, because I prefer the play style
13:49:54 <planetmaker> wow, that bauxite mine does look quite nice
13:50:08 <andythenorth> is it validly a parameter, or will it just confuse players?
13:50:42 <Wolf01> the clay pit with conveyors look really nice, and i agree with eddi, you need start/stop animation
13:50:45 <planetmaker> 90 days seems nicer... making it a parameter... it's a difficulty setting of sorts. Depends on the hassle you want to go for and how much it is to make it a parameter, I think
13:51:12 <andythenorth> I think the code is easy, but explaining it in action 14 text is harder
13:51:48 <andythenorth> if people want more difficulty they can use SPI
13:51:57 <andythenorth> or it can be a parameter in v3
13:54:35 * andythenorth wonders which forum user will find out that is in fact 90 days, not three months
13:54:47 <andythenorth> and they’ll do it by exhaustive testing, not reading the source :P
13:54:56 <andythenorth> still, nice game they play :)
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16:36:02 <andythenorth> planetmaker: the major problem with bauxite pit is the floor of the pit
16:36:10 <andythenorth> making it not weird
16:36:26 <andythenorth> would it be repeating tiles, because that’s quite TTD-ish?
16:36:32 <andythenorth> or would it be one huge drawn sprite?
16:36:45 <andythenorth> sprite / piece of art with no repetition /s
16:37:05 <planetmaker> could be both. TTD seems go for the latter, one huge sprite
16:37:43 <planetmaker> could be several multi-tile sprites which can be re-arranged, as a kind of middle ground, though
16:37:47 <andythenorth> I have been wondering about making a smaller pit, but repeating it
16:37:58 <andythenorth> connected to a processor by conveyors or such
16:38:11 <andythenorth> dunno about trucks, I always think they should be moving
16:38:21 <planetmaker> also, just to warn you: we'll have probably very soon a devzone downtime for maintenance (aka asap). Thus might go down somewhen for short time
16:41:40 <andythenorth> not much to see there :P
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16:47:58 <andythenorth> also that mockup needs a 5x7 layout
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16:49:01 <Alberth> your fight with the pits is done?
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16:54:01 * andythenorth has to fight more industries
16:54:07 <andythenorth> but eh, maybe a v2 beta first
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17:02:54 <Alberth> getting some more feedback would be good
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18:22:38 <peter1138> that's easy, i just turn the gain up too much
18:23:10 <Alberth> gaining lots of noise then :)
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18:42:19 <andythenorth> Alberth: eints doesn’t handle branches other than default? o_O
18:42:30 <andythenorth> [this would make sense]
18:43:54 <^Spike^> saw eints and thought something broke but that doesn't seem to be the case :D
18:44:18 <Alberth> eints itself doesn't know about branches
18:44:44 <Alberth> maybe the push & pull scripts do something, but not sure
18:45:11 <Alberth> I didn't write those scripts
18:45:11 <andythenorth> I’m wondering how to get translations in place for FIRS 2.0.0
18:45:20 <andythenorth> possibly I do an alpha, then a beta in the branch
18:45:27 <andythenorth> then merge to master for an RC
18:45:37 <andythenorth> and let translators work then, before final release
18:47:32 <Alberth> but really, I have no idea what the push & pull scripts do here
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19:47:13 <andythenorth> eh come on compile farm
19:47:55 <andythenorth> I want $someone to proof-read the changelog
19:48:25 * andythenorth has to be patient :P
19:48:31 <Alberth> and a faster compile farm helps there? :)
19:49:05 <andythenorth> waiting for the html docs to be built
19:49:10 <andythenorth> reading the raw source is uglier
19:50:41 <andythenorth> wow compile farm builds FIRS slowly :o
19:50:48 <Alberth> depending on the layout, that can be ugly indeed
19:51:17 <Alberth> it's so good, it takes longer to appreciate all the worl
19:51:20 <andythenorth> “6 min 53 sec and counting”
19:51:52 <Alberth> eints is clearly just crap, it needs only 18 seconds or so :)
19:52:03 * andythenorth got bored waiting
19:53:02 * andythenorth wonders if jenkins is stuck
19:56:40 <Alberth> probably V is keeping it busy :p
19:58:17 <Alberth> initial uppercase for all the items?
20:00:19 <Alberth> full firs economy is not default any more?
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20:03:00 <andythenorth> Full Firs is still default :)
20:03:07 <andythenorth> the order of that changelog is dubious
20:03:47 <Alberth> I'd shuffle the entries so the same kinds of entries are near each other
20:06:38 <andythenorth> so in the final analysis, is the Quarry now better?
20:07:19 <andythenorth> wouldn’t be the first time the changed version is worse than the original :)
20:09:59 <V453000> I love how the edge is not uniform width andythenorth
20:10:07 <V453000> really sells that it is jut wet/mud edge
20:10:18 <Alberth> current is better, imho
20:10:42 <Alberth> the green grass looks more in place with the buildings in some way
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20:19:46 <andythenorth> embarassingly, your English is better than mine :|
20:21:13 <andythenorth> I’ll add that patch, thanks
20:22:45 <Alberth> ha, I had that experience with a colleague from work with Dutch, she knew all about grammar, while I just do things on feeling
20:23:14 <Alberth> some things are suggestions
20:24:13 <Alberth> mostly the "<--" things need some thinking perhaps :)
20:32:45 * andythenorth watches Jenkins again
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20:42:04 <frosch123> yay, christmas advertising
20:48:24 <andythenorth> eh before I make a bananas mistake...
20:48:31 <andythenorth> I have tagged FIRS 2.0.0-alpha
20:48:42 <andythenorth> it has the same grfid as FIRS 1.x
20:48:54 <andythenorth> I am planning to upload it to bananas, set to nightly openttd >= 27280
20:49:08 <andythenorth> (requires increased industry limit)
20:49:12 <andythenorth> is this a viable plan?
20:50:12 <Wolf01> yay 453MiB of grf upgrades to download
20:51:02 <Wolf01> i think i'll need to cleanup my install folder
20:51:29 <Wolf01> get rid of everything and keep just the 2 or 3 grfs i really need
20:51:48 <Wolf01> like pineapple, zbase... oh wait
20:53:26 <Alberth> you can safely keep everything else as well, you won't notice the difference :)
20:54:14 <andythenorth> is a “broken in production”
20:54:29 <andythenorth> also the edit view
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20:55:17 <andythenorth> Unhandled Exception
20:55:17 <andythenorth> An unhandled exception was thrown by the application.
20:55:32 <andythenorth> there is probably a long forum thread about this, and I am late to the party?
20:55:49 <Alberth> not very long, but yeah
20:55:50 <frosch123> the answer is: use musa
20:56:04 <frosch123> Alberth: there are also like 2 fs tasks and some irc conversions :p
20:56:24 <Alberth> ah, it's distributed :)
20:57:15 <Alberth> drac_boy: Python program that prepares your upload, and checks for silly mistakes and such
20:57:43 <andythenorth> I don’t have musa and I *do* have to make dinner :|
20:57:57 <andythenorth> can anyone upload FIRS 2.0.0-alpha to the coop account?
20:58:05 <andythenorth> nightly openttd >= 27280
20:59:49 <andythenorth> hmm jenkins hasn’t built the tag yet
21:00:10 <drac_boy> heh going from firs1 to firs2?
21:00:12 <andythenorth> oh it had no changes
21:02:45 <drac_boy> so why going to 2 then? ;)
21:03:17 <frosch123> if there is nothing new, you have to at least use a new version number
21:03:30 <andythenorth> this year’s number is 2
21:03:45 <andythenorth> could have gone to 3
21:03:50 <andythenorth> that would have raised the game
21:03:51 <drac_boy> well if its 2 then what is new?
21:04:05 <andythenorth> well if Jenkins would build it, you could read the changelog
21:04:12 <andythenorth> online and everything
21:04:20 <andythenorth> can you fix Jenkins?
21:16:20 * drac_boy would want to know how much coal is down there
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