IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-09-09
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00:13:25 <dlhero> <--- really really bad at hubs
00:14:10 <Sylf> are they all path signals?
00:14:49 <dlhero> haven't figure out how to use entry/exit to provide prio
00:15:19 <Sylf> also, what's wrong with it?
00:15:30 <Sylf> what needs to be improved?
00:16:27 <dlhero> can't figure out how to do non-blocking in/out from terminus station on the "main-line"
00:17:41 <Sylf> the screen shot alone doesnt tell much
00:18:28 <Sylf> one thing is, with path signals, you do NOT want signals after splits
00:19:25 <dlhero> i think i figured out when on the "entry bridges" of a station
00:19:40 <dlhero> path signals before/after the bridge, broke load balancing
00:20:09 <dlhero> so 1 path signal before the split, one after each entry bridge
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00:23:48 <Wolf01> <Sylf> one thing is, you do NOT want signals after splits <- fixed
00:24:59 <Sylf> but you do want signals aftet splits if you use block signals
00:26:01 <Sylf> so, dont confuse those two types of signals
00:27:09 <dlhero> no I just use path signals, with rare exceptions
00:27:09 <Sylf> all of coop's articles assume you have good understandings of path signals, and block (pre-)signals
00:27:34 <dlhero> I understand PBS but the rest not that much
00:27:47 <Sylf> so if you only use path signals, dont copy stuff from coop sites
00:28:59 <dlhero> well I tried to understand the SLH example where one line is prioritized but I don't get how it works
00:34:45 <dlhero> however I cannot understand why block signals are used after the exit signals
00:35:30 <Sylf> the outer 2 lines are given priority over inner lines in that image
00:36:28 <Sylf> also, that structure is built specifically for trains that are 3 tiles long
00:37:01 <dlhero> you need longer diagonal lines for longer lines
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13:48:14 * andythenorth hates coding industry animation
13:54:18 <Wolf01> oh, finally a scrollbar i can use with my fingers on steam
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14:18:44 <dlhero> is there a better way to differentiate btw then entry signal and the one way pbs?
14:38:56 <Snail> how about some crane animation? :p
14:43:19 <andythenorth> can’t think how to do it without having to animate turning the crane
14:47:51 <planetmaker> nice, andythenorth
14:51:23 * andythenorth fails to make random start/stop on the animation :P
14:51:31 <andythenorth> doing something wrong :P
15:03:57 <andythenorth> I do something wrong with handling triggers
15:04:02 <andythenorth> it’s quite baffling tbh :)
15:06:36 <andythenorth> this bulldozer glitches sometimes, because I have a switch jumping to frame 0 to restart the animation
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16:59:47 <andythenorth> eh this animation is a bit sketchy, but I did the crane :)
17:05:01 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> it’s quite baffling tbh :) <-- it can stay baffling, or you can investigate what's actually going on.
17:08:03 <andythenorth> it would require understanding
17:08:07 <andythenorth> I don’t have understanding
17:08:31 <andythenorth> I see no way to randomly start or stop an animation though
17:09:03 <andythenorth> in fact, it’s probably undesirable anyway
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17:14:05 <planetmaker> sweet, andythenorth :)
17:17:15 <andythenorth> it’s a bit of a party trick
17:18:46 <andythenorth> the 5 year old has just reviewed my work
17:18:53 <andythenorth> he says there should be no gap :(
17:18:59 <andythenorth> or a pipe joining the two parts :P
17:19:47 <Eddi|zuHause> 5 year olds are always right
17:19:57 <planetmaker> are both industry parts one industry?
17:20:47 <planetmaker> oh... what do the many buildings add to the pit? :O
17:21:09 <Alberth> administration and planning :)
17:21:18 <planetmaker> I would have thought it's a separate cement industry taking sand, making building supplies
17:22:11 <Eddi|zuHause> the buildings used to be on the SW edge of the pit
17:22:36 <Eddi|zuHause> $someone thought that removing them there and putting them elsewhere made the industry easier to place
17:25:12 <andythenorth> as best as I can test for a small sample set
17:26:12 <andythenorth> if $someone could suggest a solution to the graphical problems, then I would remove the gap
17:27:32 <planetmaker> remove the buildings altogether. That part is not needed
17:27:41 <planetmaker> and placement is easier again
17:27:49 <andythenorth> that is an interesting suggestion
17:28:00 <Alberth> add building next to it with foundation and no ground?
17:28:16 <planetmaker> to me it really looked like a separate industry which accepts sand. I was not joking :)
17:28:37 <Alberth> but FIRS has lots of industries that have 2 parts
17:28:47 <andythenorth> usually they are not so weird
17:28:57 <andythenorth> I’ve spent about 2 days redrawing the buildings
17:29:02 <andythenorth> but I’m tempted to just delete them
17:29:32 <Alberth> add one in the water :p
17:29:36 <planetmaker> they look nice, yes... but for a sand pit it looks like too many buildings to me
17:29:50 <planetmaker> a sandpit needs sand and a small operator / billing hut. that's it :D
17:42:13 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i imagine the buildings have sorting machines in them to separate smaller and larger pebbles
17:43:04 <andythenorth> they’re relatively bigger because the pit is now relatively smaller
17:44:43 <andythenorth> these two industries are ridiculously TMWFTLB now :)
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17:56:47 <Eddi|zuHause> the pit shrinks in every iteration?
17:57:36 * andythenorth has shrunk it further
17:57:44 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: make the pit wider, so the "beach" overlaps with the building
17:58:35 <andythenorth> but when is removing ‘removing too much’?
17:58:48 <andythenorth> this is starting to look like a postage stampe
17:58:54 <planetmaker> I like that size better
17:59:16 <planetmaker> I still think that the grass at the pit borders could receede more in favour of a slightly bigger pit
17:59:20 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: in that last picture, the buildings should be rotated 90°
17:59:26 <planetmaker> maybe then the buildings could stand on sand, too
17:59:40 <planetmaker> and the 90° rotation for the buildings makes sense ^
18:00:05 <Eddi|zuHause> and yes, the sand should go all the way to the buildings
18:01:39 <andythenorth> I think the problem is the pit
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18:10:47 <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't look very helpful :p
18:11:20 <Eddi|zuHause> looks like you had a mud flood :p
18:15:10 <andythenorth> either the grass has to go
18:15:16 <andythenorth> or the pit can’t be joined to the processor
18:15:26 <andythenorth> can’t have both at once
18:15:58 * andythenorth thinks maybe the grass is daft
18:16:16 <Eddi|zuHause> well, planetmaker's idea was to make the pit (i.e. the water section) bigger, at the cost of some grass, and my idea was to convert the grass into sand on the side where the buildings are attached
18:16:55 <planetmaker> I like those both ideas joined. But I guess the issue is that the building is attached at several positions, depending on layout?
18:17:34 <andythenorth> but the buildings attach on multiple sides, yes
18:17:58 <Eddi|zuHause> so just have each side with a grass and a sand version, and use the appropriate one based on layout
18:19:59 <andythenorth> industries don’t change graphics per layout
18:20:07 <andythenorth> except grain mill, which changes utterly
18:20:39 <andythenorth> anyway, I think we’ve just re-learnt the definition of bikeshedding :D
18:21:00 <andythenorth> given that there are multiple industries which have much much bigger problems
18:21:21 <andythenorth> base-set iron ore mine in arctic anyone? o_O
18:29:14 <andythenorth> anyway, I think the next step will be to eliminate the grass :P
18:29:19 <andythenorth> but how to do that, NFI :)
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18:34:29 <andythenorth> eh, just push the pit walls back right to the edge?
18:37:03 <Alberth> easier to move a few pixels :p
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19:20:40 <Eddi|zuHause> wasn't that basically what we said?
19:38:25 <V453000> andythenorth: grass go, connected
19:38:30 <andythenorth> those industries can wait until v3
19:38:36 * andythenorth is super bored of them
19:38:58 <andythenorth> it makes piss all difference to gameplay, and you don’t even notice the details when building routes
19:39:54 <andythenorth> I have saved a copy of a file with the walls pushed back, but needs ~hours more work
19:45:23 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27395 trunk/src/lang/unfinished/frisian.txt (2015-09-09 19:45:14 +0200 )
19:45:24 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:45:25 <DorpsGek> frisian - 14 changes by BAJansen
20:04:02 <andythenorth> bulldozer mining water
20:06:49 <dlhero> is there something like a farm runway?
20:07:11 <dlhero> you know just like a small airport but smaller. sth like 2*7 or 2*8
20:08:54 <Eddi|zuHause> that somewhat looks actually terrible...
20:09:41 <Eddi|zuHause> dlhero: no, you can only change the looks of an airport, not the size of the runway and the paths the planes are moving
20:10:02 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that’s the requested change no?
20:10:49 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: more water, less sand
20:10:56 <dlhero> Eddi|zuHause: read some posts about custom airports and stuff. it must be hard to code airports
20:10:58 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: also, less repetitive sand and more colours
20:11:32 <Eddi|zuHause> dlhero: that entirely depends on what level of "custom" you want
20:11:36 <andythenorth> I am unsure what is gained by more water
20:11:50 <andythenorth> it seems opposed to the goal of ‘less water'
20:12:05 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the repetitive sand pattern makes the area look really ugly
20:12:25 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: and who said the goal was "less water"?
20:14:24 <andythenorth> I thought the water was generally hated
20:15:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't get that impression
20:15:48 <andythenorth> coasts repeat, why shouldn’t the quarry repeat?
20:16:00 <andythenorth> the screenshot happens to prove that :P
20:16:26 * andythenorth is starting to think that it would be less work to do a proper quarry
20:16:46 <andythenorth> also to split the quarry apart
20:16:58 <andythenorth> it’s hard to make it plausibly a source of limestone and such
20:18:12 <dlhero> Eddi|zuHause: an airport with a shed hangar available from the 30's and for ever, with a simple runway
20:19:16 <Eddi|zuHause> dlhero: well, again, what i said applies. you can change the look of the airport (e.g. take the small or commuter airport as basis), and that is pretty easy actually
20:19:55 <Eddi|zuHause> but you cannot affect the way the planes move, e.g. the number or location of loading bays or the runway lengths
20:23:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: different solutions from different centuries
20:24:22 <dlhero> Eddi|zuHause: it's the size of the airport as a whole. 2x8 or 3x8 is what I'd aim for
20:25:10 <Eddi|zuHause> dlhero: you can add fake tiles around it, to change the look, but the planes won't use them
20:26:00 <dlhero> a yeah that can be done
20:26:04 <Eddi|zuHause> dlhero: there is a "fake airport tiles" grf, if you want to take a look
20:26:58 <dlhero> well first I want to take a look on how airplanes work
20:28:08 <dlhero> the ideas was to be able to fit a very nice looking runway between the tiles of a farm
20:40:33 <frosch123> Wolf01: is a canal bridge crossing a river, or a ship lift that unusual?
20:45:32 <Eddi|zuHause> the russians have way weirder ship lifts
20:46:10 <frosch123> i wonder whether the point of the picture is, that a short tunnel may look like a bridge :p
20:51:43 <planetmaker> I still wonder why there's space between :)
20:51:56 <planetmaker> but yes, it does somehow as the building is not as big as lime kiln or similar
20:52:33 <andythenorth> I have reduced the size of one of the buildings
20:52:37 <planetmaker> but that building looks much better-sized compared to the pit :)
20:52:58 <andythenorth> those buildings were originally drawn a long time ago, when I drew FIRS buildings too big
20:53:07 <Wolf01> can't you just put some eyecandy stuff like mud paths between the two and let those tiles buildable? just to confuse the user a bit more
20:54:23 <planetmaker> Wolf01, unfortunately over-buildable industry tiles are not yet there
20:54:34 <planetmaker> (except farm fields wich cannot be placed manually)
20:56:47 <Wolf01> no, i mean like those overlapping station tiles with the graphic larger than the tile they use, it might glitch out a lot but it could be a nice thing
20:57:18 <andythenorth> stockyard does that
21:05:13 <andythenorth> sensible thing would be a conveyor
21:05:23 <andythenorth> but it would be hard to do it without glitches
21:07:14 <Wolf01> animated suspended buckets
21:12:05 <andythenorth> that would be awesome
21:38:30 <planetmaker> seems people don't understand Haikus or whatever that was which makes our 1.5.2 announcement :)
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21:42:39 <frosch123> the rc1 was definitely completely bug free :)
21:43:24 <Wolf01> just because nobody noticed them ;)
21:52:28 <andythenorth> the pipe to the de-watering pump needs a bit of work
21:52:56 <andythenorth> the front two layouts look fine, the green one has problems
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