IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-08-31
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16:57:40 <meslinjf> I'm still having trouble compiling the source from ogfx-rv-0.1.0-source.tar.gz available here: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ogfx-rv/releases/0.1.0/ and am receiving messages telling me numerous times: cc.exe: error: cc: No such file or directory even though my MinGW is well installed and that cc.exe is in the bin folder. Does anyone have any advice as to what I should do?
16:59:22 <planetmaker> meslinjf, that sounds like it is not in the path, though
16:59:41 <meslinjf> I should put the cc.exe directly in the path?
17:00:54 <planetmaker> in your PATH variable
17:01:03 <planetmaker> in your environment settings
17:05:01 <meslinjf> The bin folder where the cc.exe is already in the path variable. The gcc --version command works in my windows cmd.
17:11:29 <meslinjf> I've read that "you need a c compiler to compile OpenGFX+ RV set. There's no C code, but it uses C preprocessor." Is this what makes it impossible for me to compile the source?
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17:38:14 <Alberth> it is in the path last time we discussed this (last Friday?)
17:38:43 <Alberth> but the CC variable constructs an additional "cc"
17:39:26 <planetmaker> meslinjf, you could try to call make by explicitly stating where gcc is found:
17:40:28 <planetmaker> make CC=path/to/gcc
17:44:53 <meslinjf> I entered F:\openTTD\ogfx-rv>make CC=F:\MinGW\bin and I've received \bin\sh: F:MinGWbin: command not found
17:47:18 <Alberth> try forward slashes, and add the real program: make CC=F:/MinGW/bin/cc.exe
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17:47:55 <Alberth> (or use double backward slashes, but that's less readable)
17:49:20 <Alberth> always such fun, new users picking the most complicated platform for compiling :(
17:51:30 <meslinjf> I'm getting better results with the line you gave me.
17:52:37 <meslinjf> But there seems to be some work needed in the source. there seems to be an error in a .pnml file contained in the source folder.
17:53:33 <Alberth> you are trying to compile unmodified ogfx-rv, or have you made changes already?
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17:53:57 <meslinjf> I've only changed graphic files
17:54:35 <meslinjf> [knmlc ERROR: "src/truck_bulk.pnml", line 124: Unrecognized indentifier 'PROP_ROADVEHS_CARGO_CAPACITY' encountered
17:54:51 <meslinjf> Including from: "<stdin>, line 23
17:54:59 <Alberth> what nml version do you use?
17:56:00 <meslinjf> Compiling gave me a nml file though. So I'm on the right path.
17:56:15 <Alberth> so the cc command worked
17:57:03 <Alberth> hmm, line 124 is empty here
17:58:00 <NGC3982> I want to start hosting ttd servers again
17:58:07 <NGC3982> But nobody's playing.
17:58:20 <NGC3982> Do you guys consider this a single player game, primarly?
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17:59:44 <planetmaker> meslinjf, that does not exist in my source of ogfx-rv
17:59:44 <Alberth> meslinjf: what version of ogfx-rv do you have? Mine doesn't even have "CAPAC"
18:00:56 <meslinjf> I'm using the 0.1.0 version since I do not need the additional cargoes and it let's me change graphics more easily.
18:01:15 <planetmaker> meslinjf, that is designed / written for an ancient nml version
18:02:06 <meslinjf> Ah! Then I could get the old version and run it?
18:02:35 <planetmaker> yes, in principle... try the 0.2 branch
18:02:49 <planetmaker> maybe a 0.3.x version will work, too, but I doubt
18:03:19 <planetmaker> meslinjf, on the other hand, the newer versions don't make it more complicated to change graphics...
18:03:58 <planetmaker> just more graphics :)
18:06:45 <meslinjf> Yes, but many of the graphic files are in gimp (which I'm not confortable with) and some do not appear straight away in the latest source. But I'd rather edit a few files and then play! :)
18:07:46 <planetmaker> oh, complicated in that sense. yes, can be. I might be guilty :)
18:12:38 <Alberth> name got removed in r108, 2011-08-19
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18:18:26 <meslinjf> It finally worked! The grf has been created and the new graphics are working properly. Thank you very much guys.
18:19:13 <Alberth> if you change the grf, please also change the grf id
18:21:04 <Alberth> and preferably also the other names, etc
18:21:39 <Alberth> it's such a mess if someone reports a bug against the wrong newgrf
18:22:53 <meslinjf> Will do. It's for my own use since I'm using original graphics, but it's best to do it anyway.
18:41:19 <peter1138> stop holding your arm in the air then
18:42:04 <Wolf01> 2 days of playing with lego technic vehicles at the model exposition, after 3 hours is not fun anymore, it is hard work
18:42:41 <Wolf01> we moved around a table about 9kg of candies for the children
18:49:50 <planetmaker> first world problems ;)
18:56:27 <Alberth> let the children eat the table first :)
18:57:34 <TELK> Hi, does anyone know why updating at BaNaNaS does not work?
18:59:28 <Alberth> most likely because you are doing something wrong
18:59:40 <Alberth> but the web interface is terrible at reporting errors
19:00:05 <Alberth> did you try using musa? It is said to be better at indicating errors
19:04:19 <TELK> I don't think "Unhandled Exception" at Manage menu is not my fault.
19:04:56 <TELK> it seems that somethings are wrong in bananas' server
19:18:16 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, Rubidium ? ^
19:18:43 <planetmaker> TELK, where exactly does it occur? when?
19:19:05 <TELK> on Manage menu at bananas
19:19:14 <TELK> impossible to update/edit/upload
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19:20:31 <planetmaker> I get that only for 'upload new'. Which is bad enough
19:21:01 <planetmaker> and on 'update' and 'edit' for some entries it seems. But definitely not all which I have access to
19:22:38 <TELK> Do you think it will be fixed in half hour? or I'll go to sleep.
19:23:02 <frosch123> better go to sleep for sur e:)
19:24:42 <TELK> ok, I will come back to tell if it will not be also fixed tomorrow :)
19:45:19 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27391 trunk/src/lang/english_US.txt (2015-08-31 19:45:13 +0200 )
19:45:20 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:45:21 <DorpsGek> english_US - 2 changes by Supercheese
19:55:25 <NGC3982> I notice that there is some kind of checksummy thing before the NewGRF's in the latest Windows release.
19:55:43 <NGC3982> Should i keep it when copying to a linux config?
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19:59:27 <frosch123> NGC3982: the checksum takes priority over the paths, so if you have them, you actually do not need to adjust the paths
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20:30:19 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: mostly those issues are resolved by using musa
20:34:57 <Alberth> my suggestion to use that, got dismissed very quickly :)
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20:49:22 <TrueBrain> Alberth: his base assumption that it would mean it is not his fault, is the fault, I am afraid :(
20:49:33 <TrueBrain> only his fault is unhandled, that is our fault :D
20:50:16 <Alberth> yeah, better error reporting would be nice though, "unhandled exception" is a little ambiguous :p
20:51:41 <frosch123> can you replace it with "please use musa"? :p
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21:08:34 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, the suggestion cannot be to not use the website. That error occurs not during upload but just when clicking the button(s)
21:09:17 <planetmaker> it's not a size issue
21:11:17 * andythenorth refrains from childish comments
21:12:30 <planetmaker> can musa modify description and availability of already uploaded content? If so, it may be the answer, otherwise it's a real usability issue ;)
21:16:02 <TrueBrain> musa should be able to replace BaNaNaS management completely
21:19:29 <andythenorth> iron ore is the colour of TTD copper :P
21:21:38 * NGC3982 wants to see how many AI's he can cram into a public server.
21:40:10 <NGC3982> Simply pasting the windows files for AIAI from windows to the linux box was not that simple.
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21:58:23 <TartarusMkII> Oh wow, this is #OpenTTD?
21:59:37 <TartarusMkII> I was here asking for lots of advice and stuff in the spring, and wow I am so happy to see so many people here!
21:59:50 <TartarusMkII> How is everyone, how is the game? Thanks to anyone involved for the work being done!
22:00:58 <Supercheese> Game is still fun, last I checked
22:01:21 <Supercheese> I wast- err, fruitfully spent many hours playing it this week
22:04:41 <TartarusMkII> Yea, I popped into ask some very stupid questions
22:04:53 <frosch123> there were no less people in spring
22:05:08 <frosch123> we have 100 idlers for years
22:05:11 <TartarusMkII> I don't remember nearly as many people, but I'd say growth is a good thing
22:05:53 <TartarusMkII> I went on a vacation and took an up to date but vanilla OpenTTD with me, and I finally learned how to play the game fluently in the early years, and I am glad. But I wanna talk to you guys about managing mods. Now that I am home, my main OpenTTD is up to date, but I have lots of mods that either never worked, or I do not know if they are up to date anymoe.
22:06:25 <TartarusMkII> Is there a way to tell in-game if a mod is up to date? And is it a pain to find the files themselves to manually remove mods that don't work? (I have some old crappy city name packs that just don't work)
22:06:42 <frosch123> well, go to content download, click select upgrades and download :p
22:07:14 <frosch123> about townnames: you probably don't know how to activate them :p
22:07:26 <frosch123> they do work, but it may not be as straight forward :p
22:07:43 <frosch123> you first add them in newgrf settings, and then go to game otions and select them from the town names list
22:07:46 <frosch123> then you generate a map
22:08:19 <TartarusMkII> oh no, some of them worked, but some didn't. I am not knocking them, but I mean that I want to clean out the long list of mods that I don't want to use anymore, like if I found a better mod for the same purpose, etc
22:10:56 <TartarusMkII> also I know I have some mods that had to be installed outside of the game, like, that were too complex for the ingame browser or just wasn't offered.
22:11:06 <TartarusMkII> So now I am just sort of confused, unable to remember what in my list works and what doesn't.
22:11:21 <TartarusMkII> I mean, I remember FIRS is a beautiful thing , but... what else.. you know?
22:11:30 <frosch123> start slow :p don't activate more than 5
22:11:57 <frosch123> if you don't know what something is, and it has no description, don't use it
22:12:08 <frosch123> also, don't use things which have the same name
22:12:08 <TartarusMkII> If I may offer a newer player's perspective, my only criticism of the very awesome ingame browser, is that it's difficult for me to tell what a mod IS. What it is classified as. For example, I know there is a difference between terrain graphics and vehicle graphics, but
22:12:29 <TartarusMkII> I feel almost like if I didn't know exactly, its hard to tell that this is a pack of vehicles vs a pack of graphics
22:12:49 <TartarusMkII> Like, it could be explained slightly better in the descriptions, dialogues, etc
22:13:07 <frosch123> well, people have no pr department
22:13:15 <frosch123> they explain it to what they think is their audience
22:13:30 <TartarusMkII> oh of course, I don't really mean the offers themselves
22:13:35 <TartarusMkII> offers? authors*
22:14:40 <TartarusMkII> But nevermind no biggy haha
22:15:24 <TartarusMkII> I do have one legitimate request/suggestion for an actual practical feature. May I put it out in here for criticism before I bother making a proper suggestion?
22:16:13 <frosch123> you can, but don't be disappointed if noone cares
22:16:44 <TartarusMkII> You shine so brightly, Frosch
22:16:53 <frosch123> openttd is very sandboxy, everyone plays it different
22:17:08 <TartarusMkII> Tell me, if no one here cares about the development of an open source game, why exactly are we all idling here? What goes on?
22:18:26 <frosch123> don't worry, it's just that people are often eager to tell how they think ottd is played, but then noone else does like them
22:18:47 <frosch123> about the the people here, i do not know half of them and i am almost constantly here
22:19:05 <frosch123> they are a mystery to me as well :)
22:19:32 <TartarusMkII> Yea, I figure no one plays it the same- which is a good thing
22:19:47 <TartarusMkII> anyhow, you know how you can make new sub-categories in the transportation windows?
22:19:52 <frosch123> some other 1/6 or so are people i knew in the past, but who left long ago, but never quit their bouncer
22:20:09 <frosch123> you mean the group gui?
22:20:33 <TartarusMkII> like what I usually do is in the beginning, I make a group called industry, then a sub group in that group for like woods->mill by town name, etc
22:20:42 <TartarusMkII> I think so yea, I forget what the windows call themselves
22:22:43 <TartarusMkII> anyhow, what I end up doing (the way I play), is that I make a network of transportation between a few closeby cities with one as the terminus where most stuff meets, or comes in and out of the bundle
22:23:03 <TartarusMkII> so that group will be the terminus, with each thing like mail to each individual cities, busses, goods, etc, will each be their own sub group under it
22:23:35 <TartarusMkII> but once I make another terminus to make long range passenger and mail trade, I have so many groups to scroll through
22:24:02 <TartarusMkII> so my thought is that if these categories could collapse and expand, it would make managing the window a lot easier
22:24:20 <TartarusMkII> but I feel like that is a common 'issue' to run into, so perhaps is there a REASON we don't already have it?
22:24:35 <frosch123> no, just noone did it :)
22:25:11 <TartarusMkII> What do you think, would it be something useful?>
22:25:45 <frosch123> i used groups years ago out of a habbit, then stopped and wondered why i use groups. the only reason i found was autoreplace. so i stopped creating groups, and only created add-hoc groups when i wanted to replace a subset of vehicles
22:26:20 <TartarusMkII> so like, what do you do instead?
22:26:29 <frosch123> with some vehicle sets i also grouped them into "heavy load", ... "fast" etc to replace the engines with certain types later on
22:26:46 <frosch123> but since NUTS that has also been superfluous, since there are engines of each class at the beginning
22:27:00 <frosch123> so, when using NUTS i see no point in groups at all :p
22:27:12 <TartarusMkII> not to say groups are essential to my play style, but if there is ever an issue, maybe a train crash or something stupid, maybe a certain group of vehicles are losing money, it helps me to know which group they are in to see what I tasked them with to tell me what the issue is
22:27:39 <frosch123> it's a train set, which focussed on gameplay rather than some realworld scenario
22:28:16 <frosch123> TartarusMkII: that's what shared orders are for
22:28:30 <TartarusMkII> yea luckily I learned to use those XD
22:28:32 <frosch123> there are also implicit vehicle lists at stations
22:28:42 <TartarusMkII> how so? can you tell me about that?
22:28:55 <frosch123> as said, i used to use groups, but then wondered why i did, and did not find a good reason :p
22:29:02 <TartarusMkII> I like hearing about other people's playstyles simply because it makes me aware of stuff or techniques I had no idea about before XD
22:29:23 <frosch123> in the station window there are small vehicle buttons in the bottom right
22:29:32 <frosch123> which displays all vehicles with that station/depot in their order
22:30:04 <TartarusMkII> oh huh thats interesting
22:30:08 <frosch123> you cannot use that list for autoreplace, but you can use it to send some vehicles to depot to remove them, or clone them to add more
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22:34:20 <TartarusMkII> do you recall someone's set of mods that interact with FIRS that you have to get from their site and not in-game?
22:35:57 <frosch123> there are only very few people who do not use the in-game thingie, and they usually do not cooperate with anyone
22:36:16 <frosch123> (which is somewhat also the reason why they do not put it into the in-game thingie)
22:36:33 <frosch123> so, it's rather unlikely that they would make something for firs
22:36:56 <TartarusMkII> okie. I'm in a LoL match but then I'll poke and see whatm ods to collect
22:49:50 <frosch123> should they have called it X instead? :p
22:51:15 <frosch123> anyway, i liked delphi 2
23:16:08 <Eddi|zuHause> today i got a very concerned e-mail from google that i used my account on a windows machine!
23:23:43 <TartarusMkII> I work in sports Television, and this year they are not calling the Superbowl by roman numerals because as it's the 50th super bowl, the number would just be L
23:23:47 <TartarusMkII> so it's Super Bowl 2015
23:25:11 <Eddi|zuHause> didn't they already have a very loose interpretation of the rules how to arrange roman numerals?
23:25:31 <glx> TartarusMkII: hehe L is not impressive enough :)
23:26:31 <Eddi|zuHause> also, isn't the next superbowl in 2016?
23:28:23 <glx> wiki says XLIX, 50, LI, LII
23:30:49 <TartarusMkII> so other than NUTS and FIRS are there any other singular packs anyone would suggest?
23:31:10 <TartarusMkII> and yes you're right, I just forgot to put it in the next year. What I meant was they changed the format to be of the season instead.
23:31:24 <TartarusMkII> and yea its 50 because its the 50th anivesersary
23:31:35 <planetmaker> if you use FIRS you'll want a road vehicle and ship set, too
23:31:56 <planetmaker> e.g. opengfx+rv or egrvts2 and fish2 / squid
23:35:14 <TartarusMkII> oh right thanks!
23:35:34 <TartarusMkII> anything for aircrat?
23:36:18 <Eddi|zuHause> should give you all aircrud you'll need
23:37:06 <Eddi|zuHause> after all these years, i've still not understood what the target audience of WAS is
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23:38:41 <TartarusMkII> Sorry I feel really bad, I accidentally closed the chat. May I please ask for the names of those mods again? ugh.
23:38:53 <TartarusMkII> also does anyone know where the mod files are kept? I want to delete the mall to wipe them clean
23:44:44 <Eddi|zuHause> TartarusMkII: you can clean everything (config, savegames, downloaded content, etc.) by deleting your personal openttd directory
23:45:02 <Eddi|zuHause> (Documents\Openttd on windows)
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