IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-08-14
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03:48:43 <Ether_Man> Anyone that can explain why a mine would have ~30% cargo transported, despite a train coming through every 15 days or so and empties the station? Do I need multiple stations for a single mine or something?
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03:59:38 <Eddi|zuHause> station rating is highest if there is always a train waiting
04:00:25 <Ether_Man> So the cargo transported, is actually not about amount of cargo transported but about the station rating?
04:01:08 <Eddi|zuHause> cargo transported is basically the average station rating during the month. the industry production is multiplied by this value before transporting the cargo to your station
04:01:56 <Eddi|zuHause> the name is slightly misleading
04:02:18 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not how much you transported, but how much the mine gives you to transport
04:02:48 <Ether_Man> Was it always like that in TT or is that openttd specific? Don't remember it being like that at all from when I was a kid
04:02:57 <Eddi|zuHause> it was always like that
04:03:40 <Eddi|zuHause> and memories from when you were a kid are notoriously unreliable :p
04:03:48 <Ether_Man> k. Well cheers. Guess it's time to redo that network... again :)
04:04:44 <Eddi|zuHause> there are ways you can override this mechanics. e.g. FIRS allows you to set the station rating to 100% always
04:06:42 <Ether_Man> Hmm... Firs looks interesting. Never heard of it before but looks like it could be interesting, although not for that reason. It's fine like that, as long as I know what the heck is going on :)
04:18:38 <Eddi|zuHause> even after 20 years you can and will find things that work differently than you thought they were
04:23:54 <Ether_Man> Indeed. I used to think 4 trains on a single main line with terminals at the end in each direction was hard to manage. Though I dont remember being able to set one-way and such back then
04:24:33 <Eddi|zuHause> TT original didn't have one-way, that was introduced in TTD
04:24:52 <Ether_Man> Ah. Never played deluxe. Only had the original back then :)
04:25:31 <Eddi|zuHause> but i played TT so much that i worked out my own method how to get my train network to be one-way
04:26:49 <Ether_Man> I just went with, terminal, one or two passing loops and then terminal again. Slow, but worked :)
04:27:42 <Ether_Man> Quite possibly I learned it from the AI :)
04:34:40 <Sylf> go learn from other players (multi player) - I find that the best place to learn
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05:48:51 <Ether_Man> Sylf, meh, I don't like the stress of playing against others in a game like tt. I wanna take my time planning every move and rather build something nice by my self. Generally don't even have AI players active anymore :)
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06:21:11 <Sylf> Playing is optional on any openttd servers
06:36:54 <Flygon> All have guest viewing positions
06:37:13 <Flygon> I'm just waiting for the year 2030 where we'll have fully flexible underground subways and viaducts
06:37:28 <Flygon> 65k*65k maps w/Civ II style horizontal rollover
06:37:39 <Flygon> And people doing literal world maps and... something something :B
06:37:57 <Flygon> WE MUST MAKE OTTD START AT 1AD!
06:38:12 <Flygon> AND WE MUST IMPLEMENT INTERNATIONAL WAR AS A FEATURE
06:38:24 <Sylf> Invest in invention of wheel?
06:39:00 <Flygon> Nobody researches The Wheel
06:39:07 <Flygon> Everyone gets it from Great Library!
06:39:49 <Flygon> And also we must implement Mad Max-style future as a feature
06:40:00 <Flygon> OPENTTD MUST HAVE TRANSPORT WARS
06:40:25 * Flygon resumes animation he's been procrastinating heavily on
06:40:43 <Flygon> 8 hours to finish colouring 32 frames
06:41:04 <Flygon> Won't even get shading done :(
06:42:46 <Flygon> EVERYTHING'S already animated...
06:50:23 <Supercheese> or is it bonne chance
06:50:33 <Supercheese> I only ever hear it said
06:50:46 <Supercheese> should be French for Good Luck
06:51:03 <Flygon> I'm utterly fucked. The eyes have an undefined period where I might need to reanimate a few frames...
06:51:15 <Flygon> By 11:30AM Saturday... it's 2:51PM Friday now
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06:52:05 <Flygon> Now to hope I don't hit the secondary issue
06:52:14 <Flygon> Long story short: Paint Tool SAI
06:52:21 <Flygon> And 32-bit app RAM limit...
06:56:02 <Flygon> It's pushed back to Saturday
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06:56:40 <Supercheese> Isn't there some patch to enable extended memory usage for 32-bit applications?
06:56:53 <Supercheese> I recall hitting the limit in Civilization IV and patching it to get more RAM available...
06:57:53 <Flygon> I think that just extends to 4GB
06:58:04 <Flygon> Not the 12GB available my app needs
06:59:13 <Flygon> Thank you, regardless :#
06:59:23 <Flygon> I'll just need to use layers efficiently and pray a lot x3
07:00:40 <Flygon> Shame I gotta sleep by 2AM...
07:00:45 <Flygon> I'd work til 4AM fixing it otherwise :B
07:06:18 <Flygon> Oh nuts... not just the eyes I may needa redo too
07:06:25 <Flygon> The secondary body in this thing too...
07:06:34 <Flygon> This is what you get for pushing things off to last minute xP
07:07:30 <Supercheese> I know whatcha mean, I was the university champion procrastinator :P
07:08:29 <Flygon> Is that I was busy the rest of the week xP
07:08:33 <Supercheese> although the championship games kept getting delayed... and delayed... ;)
07:09:54 <Flygon> I publish it as a WIP, using the lack of shading as an excuse
07:10:09 <Flygon> Then figure out how to draw animated shading in Paint Tool SAI because holy CRAP this software is not meant for animation
07:10:57 <Flygon> I am now getting RAM full errors
07:14:48 * Flygon starts trying to split the one .sai file into four .sai files with 8 frames each >_>"
07:16:31 * Supercheese hasn't ever used Paint Tool SAI
07:22:13 <Flygon> And now I'm screwed because I can't cut-paste folders
07:22:30 <Flygon> I'll sort this out when I'm done picking people up from the railway station xP
07:22:36 <Flygon> Thankfully, most of the folders
07:22:43 <Flygon> Just have one layer inside (the ink layer)
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07:55:55 <Alberth> they avoid depots if possible
07:56:53 <Alberth> doesn't look very high speed to me
07:57:28 <Alberth> too many very small corners
08:07:21 <Ether_Man> Alberth, they avoid if possible yes, but if it routes through them? As in delete the straight track going past them. Will they enter and get serviced or?
08:08:30 <Alberth> it's much easier just to order them to a depot :)
08:10:27 <Ether_Man> Possibly. But it's an interesting concept :)
08:14:12 <Ether_Man> Hmm... I think I'm kind of abusing the station rating system with my current setup... Gotten a coal mine up to 800 production now in a very short timespan... It's at a constant 100% with the "harsh" setting in FIRS. Put the train station just outside the range of the mine, and then 4 road cargo depots within range of the mine, and 4 for the train station... And then lots and lots of coal trucks... There's always a truck loading and unloading.. (well, usually
08:14:12 <Ether_Man> more than one). So cargo gets away from the coal mine instantly, always, without having a train sitting and waiting :)
08:19:45 <Alberth> isn't it much easier to set the rating to 100% in firs?
08:21:02 <Ether_Man> It is but that's cheating. I just wanted to try it out if it worked, and it works a bit too good even :)
08:25:02 <Alberth> oh, no worries, soon the industry produces more than you can handle with RVs :)
08:29:03 <Ether_Man> Mm. It seems to max out at around 800. The transported drops to ~70% at that point and then sits quite stable at that production. Although it gives me new ideas for how to create feeder lines with trains. I've been trying to avoid transfers since I misunderstood the timer, but feeder networks feeding to larger and larger trunks seems to be a much better alternative to get departures as often as possible
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08:48:57 <Ether_Man> Possibly. 800 coal/month isnt a normal production for ME though :)
08:49:35 <Alberth> oh, firs, doesn't change production unless you give it supplies
08:50:08 <Alberth> unless you play a beta version, where there is more diversity, I tihnk
08:50:46 <Ether_Man> Firs basic. It doesnt use that system where almost everything needs other things :)
08:51:29 <Alberth> basic is lot more manageable :)
08:52:01 <Alberth> but you don't need to build entire cycles in firs
08:52:11 <Ether_Man> Yea I tried a game of the full... Could not find anything to actually work with other than passengers...
08:52:39 <Alberth> firs is big, it takes ages to find a matching pair
08:52:58 <Ether_Man> The only origin production I could find... Was fishing. But no boats that could transport fishes so that was useless >_<
08:53:15 <Alberth> I played with busybee giving me assignment to do. It gives foces
08:53:35 <Alberth> ha, yep, you need squid (fish2) as well
08:54:58 <Alberth> and a newgrf trainset, I hope you had that, or indeed, very little that you can transport
08:55:24 <Alberth> and if you like RVs, an RV set too, eg Road Hog
08:55:28 <Ether_Man> Nope. Just tried with firs. Readme didnt say I needed anyhting else >_<
08:57:24 <Alberth> Furthermore you need a vehicle set that supports the FIRS cargos. <-- line 13 :)
08:58:28 <Ether_Man> The sentence right next to it says that "Any vehicle
08:58:28 <Ether_Man> set with proper Cargo Classes support should do that by default." I would assume that the default vehicles do that since they say it like that
08:59:16 <Ether_Man> The sentence after that says that it's not all that can be transported, but that virtually nothing is... Well that's quite different from what it sounds like there
09:00:14 <Alberth> stuff ages, also the author knows all this, it's hard to explain to someone who has a different view
09:00:50 <Alberth> but if you can phrase it better, please do
09:01:18 <Ether_Man> The entire section?
09:02:01 <Alberth> If the entire section is best to replace in your view, sure
09:02:40 <Alberth> all yetis awake and working hard?
09:04:35 <Supercheese> do yetis get paid double for overtime?
09:05:06 <Ether_Man> Well, just dropping the sentence I quoted, and change "all" to "a number of" would be a lot clearer. Referencing Cargo Classes is great information to other devs that knows what those are and what implements them, but it's just confusing information from a user perspective, especially when combined with like saying any proper set and referncing default.
09:08:21 <Alberth> yeah, it intends to refer to behavior and not to a set, but I see that can lead to confusion
09:19:13 <Alberth> and it actually works :)
09:19:38 <Ether_Man> I'm sure it does. The question is. What does it DO? :)
09:20:11 <Alberth> Fail safe system, obviously
09:22:04 <Ether_Man> Obviously, right :)
09:27:32 <Alberth> it will just increase amazement though :)
09:36:44 <Ether_Man> Cant get ottdc stuff to work :/
09:36:56 <Supercheese> probably need the ottdcoop grf pack
09:37:43 <Ether_Man> I have. But cant get it to recognise them.
09:38:01 <Supercheese> might not have extracted it to the right place?
09:42:43 <Ether_Man> Well since it recognises most of the same pack, I would assume so.
09:43:24 <Ether_Man> %Documents%\OpenTTD\newgrf\
09:46:57 <Ether_Man> Ah right. The file it's missing isnt in the pack :/ stolentreesw_162_108.grf only a testw.grf is in that folder
09:49:55 <Supercheese> i.e. check online content?
09:50:28 <Ether_Man> Nope. Nothing in that pack seems to be found using that.
09:52:50 <Ether_Man> I would assume this has something to do with version for the save is 7.3 while the latest pack being 8.0 but cant find a 7.3 download either :/
09:59:20 <Supercheese> Yo dawg, I heard you like bridges...
09:59:37 <Ether_Man> Alberth, md5 is different so ottd doesnt recognise it anyway. But I've given up now. I probably would not have understood the mess anyway :)
09:59:56 <Ether_Man> Flygon, no no no. S?dert?lje looks nothing like that :)
10:00:13 <Flygon> More, for ludicrous bridges xP
10:01:34 <Alberth> we need bridges that show the tracks and roads
10:05:45 <Ether_Man> Btw. Last question before I stop playing for the day... I've seen quite a number of station designs today where they've put the platform to only be one or two in length. Is there any special benefit to this or what's up with that?
10:06:13 <Alberth> it takes less space, mostly
10:06:50 <Alberth> and since you build tracks around your station, you reduce space there as well
10:07:03 <Ether_Man> So basically, needs less space, but looks ugly as sin?
10:07:05 <Alberth> there is also the issue of block length
10:07:29 <Alberth> beauty is in the eye of the beholder :)
10:08:27 <Alberth> just like it's not efficient to have a 20 tile track without signals, it's also not highly efficient to have a long platform for a short train
10:08:39 <Alberth> at least if you care enough about efficiency :)
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10:09:19 <Ether_Man> Alberth, well no but they seem to be running quite long trains where the train is vastly longer than the platform.
10:13:08 <Supercheese> in unpatched OTTD that would cause significant loading delays
10:13:14 <Alberth> sure it's a station and not a waypoint?
10:14:31 <Ether_Man> Alberth, uses the original ttd station skin at least
10:15:16 <Alberth> you can use a station as pass-through point
10:15:40 <Ether_Man> Supercheese, does it even work? As in can a long train even use such a station? I kind of assumed they were only being used as some kind of stop to use advanced orders or something, hence the question
10:15:47 <Alberth> loading and unloading is possible but not advised
10:16:10 <Supercheese> Any train whose length in tiles is longer than the station will have severe penalty to loading speed
10:16:42 <Supercheese> You can use e.g. single-tile metros though for urban areas
10:17:01 <Supercheese> simulate light rail/underground or whatnot
10:18:19 <peter1138> hmm, need to get clothes for a funeral :S
10:21:11 <Ether_Man> peter1138, don't have a suit?
10:26:05 <Alberth> not an appropriate one, apparently
10:26:32 <peter1138> nope, don't have one at all
10:26:45 <Supercheese> clearly Alberth was implying the Birthday Suit
10:27:55 <Supercheese> oh wait, I meant to do
10:28:21 <Supercheese> bah, it's too late, should sleep
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12:45:54 <Flygon> Supercheese: Dunno about overseas
12:46:19 <Flygon> But single car EMUs were a thing here for sets that were usually 6-8 cars long
12:46:46 <Flygon> Long story short: A few of the urban lines extended far enough to be considered regional...
12:47:12 <Flygon> In part because it was just easier to run EMUs for goods and pax. than steam locos for part of the line xP
12:47:23 <Flygon> Hurstbridge comes immediately to mind
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19:45:24 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27386 trunk/src/lang/dutch.txt (2015-08-14 19:45:16 +0200 )
19:45:25 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:45:26 <DorpsGek> dutch - 3 changes by TheTycoonist
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20:01:46 <Supercheese> as opposed to Caturday eh
20:02:10 <frosch123> does the "diff" function work for anyone on newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net ?
20:03:02 <Supercheese> Hmm, no comparing revisions seems to be broken
20:03:11 <Supercheese> I noticed last night and thought it was just a fluke
20:03:33 <frosch123> orudge: comparing revisions seems broken on both tt-wiki and newgrf-specs.tt-wiki. the difference is always empty
20:04:04 <Supercheese> All right, who enabled wiki breakdowns? :P
20:04:25 <Supercheese> need to service at the wikidepot
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20:22:18 <andythenorth> eh, does _anyone_ use Iron Horse?
20:22:30 <frosch123> does _anyone_ ue openttd?
20:22:39 <frosch123> i am sure iron horse users are a subset of that
20:23:10 <andythenorth> they ask questions
20:23:16 <andythenorth> so they probably use OpenTTD
20:30:25 <Supercheese> I confess I have not used Iron Horse
20:30:56 <Supercheese> I find it extremely difficult to part ways with UKRS and NARS
20:32:38 * andythenorth ponders adding the pre-1860 trains
20:35:10 <Supercheese> or a 4-2-0 Crampton-pattern?
20:38:09 <andythenorth> nah, not deviating from what Dan has already drawn :)
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23:10:14 <orudge> frosch123: hm, I upgraded Debian recently, which would have upgraded MediaWiki. I'll have to look into it.
23:11:28 <frosch123> sounds plausbile, the looks of it somewhat changed
23:11:42 <frosch123> cookie hints and such
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