IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-07-28
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00:20:41 <Wolf01> the manual driving, shunting and rolling stock connection is wonderful *_*
00:21:17 <Wolf01> too bad I have other things to do, like killing those zerg
00:39:58 <Nemoder> the factorio trains are pretty cool except by the time you've built enough stations for them to be useful you already have all the resources you need to finish the game
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05:56:45 <Supercheese> Yuck, Nutella is gross
05:56:54 <Supercheese> anything hazelnut is
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10:16:59 <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r27344 trunk/src/viewport.cpp (2015-07-28 10:16:52 +0200 )
10:17:00 <DorpsGek> -Doc: Documenting the (Re)setObjectToPlace functions.
10:28:08 <Alberth> just 3 functions, nothing really exciting :)
10:34:01 <planetmaker> yes, I saw the patches yesterday. Docs are useful, too :)
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12:15:23 <Wolf01> now I have... no more space in my room :|
12:16:58 <Wolf01> it's filled with lego, and now I brought home the boxes I had at the workplace
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12:29:32 <Alberth> move out to the work place
12:29:51 <Wolf01> I just moved out from the work place
12:30:25 <Alberth> throw away old lego, or find a good home for it
12:30:59 <Wolf01> they are all new, I started to purchase them 2 years ago :D
12:31:49 <Alberth> you doubted that the lego factories could manufacture enough lego to fill your house?
12:32:12 <Alberth> hmm, maybe you can use the lego to enlarge your house?
12:33:09 <Wolf01> but I discarded it because I'm worried of rain coming down when I use some pieces for a moc
12:38:16 <Alberth> only one solution, stop collecting
12:59:26 <Wolf01> does anybody of you uses flixster?
13:05:18 <__ln__> *does anybody of you use
13:05:42 <Wolf01> I was expecting that, thank you ;)
13:05:46 <__ln__> unless you're talking bjarni english
13:10:34 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: btw they now say the uboat is from WWI
13:16:16 <__ln__> yeah they do. but it is russian like they suspected!
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14:21:59 <Eddi|zuHause> whenever anyone says that, i mind even more
14:25:46 * V453000 gives precisely zero shit
14:26:37 <Wolf01> me too... but I'm bipolar
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15:21:58 <Quatroking> what is the easiest way to figure out how much HP the engine of a train needs in order to pull its load without a lot of effort?
15:23:19 <__ln__> what it if need a lot of effort nevertheless, but it just looks easy because of the high HP?
15:23:59 <planetmaker> Quatroking, if it's unsatisfactorily, use auto-replace to change the engine to something better
15:24:14 <Quatroking> is there no formula used or something?
15:25:41 <planetmaker> there's so many variables, including how the vehicle behaves, how many wagons you have, what steepness you have, how big your slopes are, definition of 'lot of effort'...
15:26:01 <Quatroking> I guess that's true
15:26:02 <planetmaker> otherwise you can just take the steepness, the weight, the tractive effort, the horse power and do the normal physics
15:26:13 <planetmaker> but that's not necessarily 'easy' anymore :)
15:26:17 <Quatroking> then there's also wether I use realistic accerelation vs classic
15:28:25 <Alberth> don't forget about the track layout
15:29:07 <Quatroking> I try to keep my corners as wide as possible and I avoid slopes
15:30:01 <Alberth> ok, not everybody does that
15:38:32 <Quatroking> is it possible to have the "vehicle xxx made no profit last year" message ignore certain vehicles
15:38:50 <Quatroking> I have a boat that takes longer than a year to make a round trip
15:40:25 <Alberth> tbh I am not sure it's bad not to have it
15:40:54 <Alberth> a year is an awful long distance
15:41:41 <Quatroking> It's a big ship that goes to fishing grounds, loads up 500 tons and then comes back
15:41:45 <Alberth> it makes sense to get some money from each vehicle each year
15:42:00 <Quatroking> it profits a couple thousand
15:42:07 <Alberth> yeah, but perhaps 500 tons is too big
15:42:26 <Quatroking> You mean replace it with smaller boats?
15:42:36 <Alberth> or you need to add more fishing grounds
15:42:45 <Alberth> smaller boats would work
15:43:28 <Alberth> less profit in total probably, but maybe you get more fish
15:43:38 <Alberth> as your delivery time is shorter
15:43:57 <Alberth> depends on the industry
15:53:45 <Quatroking> Alberth, figured out a solution, I put a harbor on an island between the fishing grounds and the harbor and put a dock there
15:54:04 <Quatroking> ~5 boats now dump their load there for transfer, and it all gets picked up by a tanker
15:57:04 <Quatroking> Works pretty well so far
15:57:15 <Alberth> I often do that transfer at one of the fishing grounds :)
16:14:39 <Eddi|zuHause> that's problematic if multiple people load cargo :p
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16:24:39 <argoneus> I will never figure out how to make networks without making awkward terminus stations
16:24:51 <argoneus> when I look at ottdcoop saves, the map just flows with short trains
16:25:44 <Alberth> when a professional it does, it always looks easy :)
16:25:47 <planetmaker> argoneus, those games are many many man-hours of network building and optimizing :)
16:26:04 <planetmaker> also, terminus are not necessarily awkward
16:26:10 <argoneus> I wish there were like
16:26:22 <argoneus> like when you see progress update every 30 minutes
16:27:20 <Alberth> the important question is, is your current game improving over your previous game?
16:27:39 <argoneus> like my normal game is something like
16:27:50 <argoneus> find a good coal mine and a well-distanced refinery
16:28:10 <argoneus> connect them to make initial money with a 2track, then find another coal mine along the way and connect that to the railroad, then expand this network
16:28:25 <argoneus> then start hating myself because every train has to go all the way because I didn't make any feeder stations and terminus stations look weird
16:28:46 <argoneus> then look up openttdcoop saves and see all the roros how it flows with short trains
16:28:50 <argoneus> then go here and whine
16:28:52 <argoneus> that's my usual flowchart these days
16:29:11 <Alberth> coop does hours and hours of pre-planning
16:29:24 <Alberth> they don't just jump in and build
16:29:48 <argoneus> there's a server where people race who can make most money in 3 years right
16:29:53 <argoneus> or 10 years or something like that
16:30:00 <argoneus> I could try finding recordings of that
16:30:33 <Alberth> I prefer to just start, like you, and do a lot of changes as the network expands
16:30:51 <Alberth> max amount of money doesn't sound like a nice goal to me, tbh
16:31:28 <Alberth> you considered just change the network when you don't like some part of it?
16:31:43 <argoneus> but I'm not sure -how- to change it
16:32:10 <Alberth> "I want a feeder station" seems pretty clear :)
16:32:11 <argoneus> like, it makes money and trains sometimes get stuck on it, but it works
16:32:18 <argoneus> but I don't know how to improve it
16:32:32 <argoneus> yeah but I don't know how to make a feeder station out of a junction
16:32:35 <argoneus> or if I should even do that
16:32:47 <argoneus> to be fair it's hard to "lose" at this game
16:32:58 <argoneus> I just want my networks to be pretty, but I can't figure out what it is that makes them pretty
16:33:05 <Alberth> the simplest way to find out is try it
16:34:06 <Alberth> I work at a very concrete level; I watch the trains, and decide they should behave differently at some point
16:34:19 <argoneus> what length trains do you generally use?
16:34:23 <argoneus> I use 7 but it looks weird af
16:34:27 <Alberth> then I figure out how to achieve that (hopefully), and just try it
16:34:31 <argoneus> I'm considering 3 or 5
16:34:42 <Alberth> my stations are mostly 5 tiles
16:35:15 <Alberth> 7 for pax, as you get much of those :)
16:35:40 <Alberth> but even at station length 5, my trains are usually shorter 3.5 - 4.5 or so
16:36:16 <argoneus> anyway, at ottdcoop they plan things out thoroughly before even placing anything?
16:40:14 <Alberth> which is of course needed if you build with several people and want something that works as a whole :)
16:42:54 <planetmaker> argoneus, every map we play has a plan as to what we want to do with it. It decides on train length, the engines and tracks used and which (secondary) industries or towns will be services (approximately) in a sketchy way
16:43:18 <planetmaker> s/services/serviced/
16:43:38 <planetmaker> it also and especially decides where roughly the main tracks are about to go
16:52:06 <Alberth> did you ever try a game with BusyBee?
16:52:23 <Alberth> that script gives you lots of small transport goals
16:53:06 <Alberth> your network gets scattered over the map, and you connect things you normally would never do
16:53:16 <argoneus> isn't that bad when learning how to network?
16:53:21 <argoneus> when I can't even plan properly
16:54:40 <Alberth> well, it depends on how you want to play
16:55:05 <Alberth> indeed BB encourages you to gradually change and extend your network
16:55:26 <Alberth> if you are more of the 'one big bang' type, then BB isn't for you
16:55:36 <argoneus> I just want to be able to make nice looking networks :(
16:55:44 <argoneus> I can make profitable networks, but they don't look nice
16:56:02 <V453000> I liked how YACD added destinations as industries were growing, but the existing lines were necessary as well
16:56:31 <Alberth> I had loads of trouble to survive with yacd
16:56:46 <Alberth> maybe it doesn't play well with industries
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16:59:42 <Alberth> I think to get further you have to get into more detail of what you don't like
17:00:13 <argoneus> my stations are usually terminus stations, where my trains go in and then go back to wherever they came from
17:00:38 <argoneus> but the ottdcoop style is like a loop of short quick trains moving constantly through the network without stopping or turning pretty much
17:00:47 <argoneus> but when I try to do that it's horrible
17:01:20 <Alberth> coop style requires very careful building
17:02:03 <Alberth> it's not something you 'just' do
17:03:02 <Alberth> can you point what is horrible? if you can do that, you can think about ways to avoid the bad thing from happening
17:03:48 <argoneus> well, with my building style I usually end up with one huge overloaded super terminus that branches off to the entire map
17:04:02 <argoneus> there aren't really any traffic jams, but one train has to go from one end of the map to the other to unload
17:04:14 <argoneus> instead of gracefully balancing the load along the entire way somehow
17:04:28 <argoneus> I'm not sure how to explain
17:04:56 <argoneus> like I don't have anything like a main line, it's just a bunch of railroads branching out
17:05:16 <Alberth> why do you get a central terminus?
17:05:50 <argoneus> because when I have a power plant, it's easy to just connect coal mines to it
17:05:57 <argoneus> instead of trying to start another industry
17:06:44 <Alberth> make a rule, no more than 5 sources to an industry (or whatever number)
17:11:04 <argoneus> and when I reach the limit
17:11:10 <argoneus> I want to branch the network out to another industry
17:11:51 <Alberth> next source must go to a different destination
17:12:05 <Alberth> may go over existing track, imho
17:14:37 <Alberth> but even if you don't branch, at some point you run out of coal mines, right?
17:15:32 <Alberth> oh, maybe you play at normal industry density?
17:15:54 <Alberth> I tend to play low or very low or so
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17:17:06 <Alberth> which means you get industries mostly in the middle of nowhere
17:19:35 <argoneus> I play at high density
17:20:19 <Alberth> ah, no need to go across the map then :p
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19:26:28 <Terkhen> and, by extension, in europe too
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20:17:18 <DorpsGek> DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 7 hours, 34 minutes, and 38 seconds ago: <andythenorth> maybe not right now, but in 2 weeks, after holidays
20:19:07 <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r27345 trunk/src/object_gui.cpp (2015-07-28 20:18:59 +0200 )
20:19:08 <DorpsGek> -Fix-ish: Hide selected view if no object selected.
20:21:00 <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r27346 /trunk/src (3 files) (2015-07-28 20:20:54 +0200 )
20:21:01 <DorpsGek> -Feature: Make the object placement gui an independent window.
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20:59:10 <Danol> Is there a way how to sell all my trains and rails? I want to totally rework my netowrk
21:02:24 <Hiddenfunstuff> theres command to stop AI companies..
21:02:32 <Hiddenfunstuff> But afaik that doesnt apply to the user owned ones
21:03:06 <planetmaker> AI companies are not owned by users... and yes, a server admin can also delete player companies when no player is inside them
21:03:20 <Danol> I want to keep the money
21:03:33 <planetmaker> well :) send them all to depots and then sell them.
21:03:47 <planetmaker> use the "send to depot" on the global vehicle lists so it's one click
21:04:01 <Danol> but when I reset_company, does it keep my money?
21:04:27 <planetmaker> it simply deletes the company and everything it owns
21:04:35 <Danol> that would be the problem
21:04:46 <Danol> Or I guess I could add that money back by cheat? :P
21:04:53 <Danol> Also, I'd lose ratings in towns, right?
21:04:58 <planetmaker> well, use the 'send to depot' tactic, if you don't want to start anew and cheat money
21:05:15 <Danol> I want to delete all the rails, too
21:05:21 <Hiddenfunstuff> he got still probably shitload of rails
21:05:21 <planetmaker> reset_company makes the company non-existent
21:05:36 <planetmaker> yes, then start a new company and cheat money.
21:05:57 <Hiddenfunstuff> ratings in towns? who gives a damn about those? as long as you can bribe them back up
21:05:58 <planetmaker> or build a money-maker first: two airports, far apart adjacent to big cities
21:06:19 <planetmaker> use station-walk to cover the entire town and you'll have big money in no time :)
21:06:27 <Danol> How do I reset the company? :)
21:07:43 <planetmaker> start the map in multiplayer... ok :)
21:08:31 <Hiddenfunstuff> Whats wrong with it? every game i play are multiplayer games.. even if they are local
21:10:14 <Danol> Now how do I add that money?
21:15:04 <Hiddenfunstuff> well thats an intresting question.. never through of it
21:15:37 <Danol> solved it by going into singleplayer and then cheating it in :D
21:16:07 <planetmaker> yes, you can only cheat in SP
21:16:13 <Hiddenfunstuff> not even by console?
21:16:26 <Danol> Console offers only some commands
21:16:31 <Danol> Adding money seems not to be one of them
21:16:38 <Danol> I could kick myself, though
21:17:35 <Hiddenfunstuff> Iv mostly just told AIs to piss off from my tracks or plans if they build on them with the stop_ai
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21:38:51 <Danol> One question about block entry pre-signal
21:39:08 <Danol> in the wiki, there's written: "If there is at least one green exit pre-signal, the entry pre-signal wil also show green."
21:39:56 <Danol> Does it mean that it will let the train go even if there's a train in the block?
21:44:22 <Danol> and in that way, does it work like a block signal or path signal? I mean, does it check if there's a path to the green exit signal, or does it go all red when there's train anywhere in the sectin?
21:45:47 <frosch123> "block entry pre-signal" says "block"
21:49:43 <Danol> That was probably a stupid question
21:54:22 <frosch123> luckily andy is gone
21:54:34 <frosch123> otherwise he would troll the bros reddit thread
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21:57:40 <frosch123> "who's Dutch and where is his code?" <- wow
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