IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-07-16
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07:31:52 <V453000> hmmm for some reason openttd under win8 is doing seriously strange things
07:32:28 <V453000> mouse scrolling seems strangely broken, resolution of texts does not seem to be 1:1 with screen resolution, openttd icon is super low-res for some reason
07:32:57 <V453000> I guess resolution of everything, not just texts
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07:34:26 <Rubidium> V453000: welcome to Windows' automatic scaling?
07:35:21 <V453000> hm, the scrolling seems fixed when I swapped it to left mouse button, I wonder if my mouse is ok
07:36:50 <V453000> Rubidium: is there a way to disable the scaling? O_O
07:38:04 <Rubidium> no idea, I rather stay at Windows 9x for compatability reasons than using Windows 8 or 10 ;)
07:39:17 <V453000> I just got a laptop with win8 and the bullshit is unreal
07:39:29 <V453000> idk, searching that peter1138
07:39:43 <peter1138> I thought the scaling was only for text though, tbh.
07:40:03 <peter1138> Control Panel > Appearance and Personalization > Display
07:40:20 <peter1138> Or something. I've never used 8.1
07:40:29 <V453000> yeah that but I dont see how to turn it off XD
07:41:41 <V453000> ok I think I found it
07:42:18 <V453000> of course it also fixed the openttd scrolling with RMB
07:42:45 <V453000> AND I couldnt see the menu in openttd before XD
07:43:24 <andythenorth> well at least your ‘full animation’ works V453000 ;)
07:43:27 <V453000> another cute thing, while typing and switching language, the retarded system also translates everything
07:43:34 <andythenorth> no black squares for you
07:43:41 <peter1138> my tablet just says "can't change the size of items on this display"
07:43:45 <andythenorth> and you can ffwd
07:44:46 <V453000> btw is it just me or is roughness majorly broken with the new generation?
07:45:08 <peter1138> my screen is smooth
07:45:16 <V453000> it seems to me like all maps are like very smooth/smooth from the old, and the roughness only controls tiny little noise, like dot-hills in the game
07:46:16 <peter1138> variety causes that usually
07:46:51 <andythenorth> variety was always broken :)
07:47:09 <V453000> whenever I set variety distribution to be on, it creates a flat land,and flat mountains ... kind of binary flat, OR all the way uphill
07:47:25 <andythenorth> I am getting very weird coasts / islands compared to 1.5 or whatever the older version was
07:47:32 <andythenorth> but eh, might just be random seed
07:47:41 <andythenorth> maps is maps is maps
07:47:47 <V453000> yesterday I discovered that openttdcoop people only use heightmaps now, the generator is just unusable
07:48:14 <V453000> for people who used variety distribution or very smooth maps it works nice
07:48:19 <V453000> for anything else nope
07:50:12 <andythenorth> V453000: I honestly don’t think it’s worse
07:50:15 <andythenorth> just differently bad
07:50:29 <andythenorth> flat-topped mountains are back, which is….nice :)
07:50:32 <V453000> it is the same, with many things that were possible before, are now impossible
07:50:39 <V453000> it is just cut down to basically 3 kinds of maps
07:51:13 <V453000> flat, very smooth, very smooth with smooth huge hills
07:52:17 <peter1138> heh, my git repo was on r27052
07:52:36 <V453000> I didnt even ask if you have a patch for that :P
07:53:07 <zuu> V: I read you recently got maried. Congratulations to you :-)
07:53:09 <andythenorth> V453000: also flat with occasional round-ish hills
07:53:33 <V453000> yeah last saturday :) thanks
07:53:50 <andythenorth> V453000: put it back on original map gen. terragensis is crap
07:54:16 <V453000> that is a nice option but instead I will generate in 1.4.0 and turn it to heightmap through SE
07:55:17 <peter1138> 1.5.0 seems to generate fine for me
07:56:11 <andythenorth> we should just make 99 heightmaps
07:56:31 <andythenorth> even in 10 years, I doubt I’ve played 99 separate OpenTTD games :P
07:56:48 <andythenorth> I’ve *started* many many more games looking for a decent map :P
07:56:57 <peter1138> head seems broken though
07:57:01 <zuu> And add a GUI that make you believe the map was generated?
07:57:16 <andythenorth> yes, thinking the same
07:57:23 <andythenorth> also 99 * 4 rotations
07:57:40 <V453000> now that is pure evil :D
07:57:55 * andythenorth used similar techniques in flash games :P
07:58:41 <andythenorth> especially if a list of ‘used’ heightmaps could be persisted in cfg, so that none are repeated until all have been seen :P
07:59:12 <zuu> You could still add some meta tags to the 99 maps so the GUI is kind of a search engine.
07:59:15 <peter1138> just take them in order and remember the last used one, heh
07:59:31 <peter1138> or better yet, fix the generator
07:59:45 <andythenorth> oh you proper programmers :(
07:59:52 <andythenorth> and your dislike of cunning hacks :(
08:00:04 <andythenorth> when you can’t program properly, you have to be....inventive
08:03:19 <zuu> Andy: I read you got bored by NewGRF, shall I post on forums for someone interested in testing gs -> grf patch? I'm on a ship thougt so the post will be later on as I expect my internet to drop at some point.
08:03:46 <andythenorth> yeah, put it in forums :)
08:04:00 <andythenorth> it’s something I want to test, but stuff...
08:04:38 <andythenorth> dunno if I’d get to it before August :)
08:06:27 * V453000 is about to actually play the game
08:09:26 <zuu> Oh now its less than 12 hours for my ship to arrive :-)
08:10:10 <zuu> Ships are slow.. we all know.
08:11:38 <andythenorth> V453000: the game is good
08:11:39 <andythenorth> I have been playing it
08:11:46 <andythenorth> it’s a really good game
08:12:08 <V453000> MAYBE a bit of static wip stuff
08:12:59 <zuu> Real players play it RAW?
08:13:10 <andythenorth> wow, V453000 is playing with the stabilisers off :O
08:13:12 <andythenorth> how will this go?
08:14:59 <andythenorth> most newgrfs make the game worse
08:18:46 <V453000> am just making a sort of tutorial savegame, so would fit to make it in default environment
08:19:03 <andythenorth> hope V’s boat didn’t sink :o
08:19:27 <V453000> also, first crash of firefox with html youtube
08:23:43 * andythenorth forgives peter1138 for all his crimes
08:23:44 <peter1138> Still, 3 months ago.
08:24:17 <andythenorth> I stopped building because my checkouts broke
08:26:01 <peter1138> Shame nobody bothered to report a bug
08:26:19 <V453000> probably nobody used that new revision
08:26:23 <V453000> I updated to it yesterday
08:26:32 <peter1138> V453000, 3 MONTHS ago.
08:26:48 <V453000> and who would you expect to use trunk
08:27:39 <andythenorth> do people actually *download* nightlies? :o
08:27:40 <peter1138> Whoever it was who said it was broken..
08:27:49 <peter1138> 06:47 < V453000> yesterday I discovered that openttdcoop people only use heightmaps now, the generator is just unusable
08:27:56 <peter1138> like the openttdcoop people
08:28:10 <peter1138> (isn't pm an openttdcoop person?)
08:28:21 <V453000> but that doesnt mean he is active
08:28:36 <V453000> pm is innocent here :P
08:28:48 <andythenorth> none of us are ‘innocent’ :P
08:28:51 <peter1138> didn't say otherwise
08:29:57 <andythenorth> if I set some high debug level at some point in the past, might that explain insanly slow OpenTTD performance?
08:29:58 <V453000> I will scramble some reasonable bug report today
08:30:22 * andythenorth thinks the pre-built binaries might run a bit faster than the self-built
08:40:27 <planetmaker> indeed it's months that I really *played* on an openttd server :D
08:46:19 <andythenorth> is the debug level persistent anywhere, or is only a command line parameter?
09:03:15 <peter1138> planetmaker, played... whoever played ottd? :D
09:04:18 <andythenorth> I have played at least once on peter1138’s server
09:04:25 <andythenorth> dunno if peter1138 was playing though :P
09:10:32 * andythenorth tried to make Pikka add more trains to UKRS 2
09:10:55 <andythenorth> that went well :)
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18:39:31 <frosch123> r27232 looks indeed pretty much bollocks
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18:39:38 <frosch123> all the numbers are the same, while they were not before
18:43:56 <andythenorth> call it a feature
18:44:14 <andythenorth> ‘improved terrain generator'
18:46:46 <andythenorth> “I get these hundreds of trains. Not really knowing much about the trains and history or, heck, even what a train is really supposed to do, how do I know what train I should use for each task?"
18:46:57 <andythenorth> I wanted to reply helpfully to this
18:47:04 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: kamnet was last seen in #openttd 5 weeks, 5 days, 6 hours, 57 minutes, and 6 seconds ago: <kamnet> no dumplings for you
18:47:18 <andythenorth> but my ‘helpful’ seemed like trolling when I read it :(
18:47:43 <andythenorth> I just feel that the horse has bolted, and the stable door is no longer even in existence
18:47:53 <andythenorth> the horse is galloped miles away
18:48:13 <andythenorth> for 2CC set ‘which is the right train’ is not even a valid question
18:48:37 <andythenorth> ‘which train do I like?’ perhaps
18:49:07 <Alberth> frosch123: I think it would help if we knew what we intend to have?
18:49:31 <andythenorth> Alberth: was a question in the 2CC set thread ;)
18:49:31 <Alberth> basically, I am fine with any number, as I have no idea what we should aim for
18:49:55 <Alberth> andy, yeah, I would exect so :p
18:50:24 <Alberth> but I think the answer is the same, use something you understand
18:51:22 <frosch123> Alberth: it looks like copy&paste and forgotten to me
18:51:35 <frosch123> it makes no sense to have roughness only affect the lowest and highest amplitude
18:51:57 <andythenorth> what, you don’t love flat mountain tops?
18:52:05 <frosch123> the highest is only small pinches
18:52:38 <frosch123> makes the lowest frquency differs as the only one makes even less sense
18:53:18 <planetmaker> indeed. That sounds strange :)
18:53:55 <Alberth> flat mountain tops are useful for forests :)
18:54:19 <andythenorth> but they look daft :)
18:54:26 <andythenorth> unless they’ve been mined for coal :P
18:55:02 <Alberth> you know the highest 'mountain' we have here is around 100m, right?
18:55:32 <andythenorth> so you made a Dutch landscape generator? o_O
18:55:39 <andythenorth> nice, but quite specific to you Alberth :P
18:57:38 <Alberth> sounds like a nice disaster, move half the mountain into the nearby vallley :p
19:01:26 <andythenorth> how much land can GS raise/lower in a cycle?
19:03:37 <Alberth> just use slow-motion dynamite :)
19:05:35 * andythenorth ponders a land-building GS
19:05:42 <andythenorth> that fills in the sea
19:05:48 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27334 trunk/src/tgp.cpp (2015-07-16 19:05:40 +0200 )
19:05:49 <DorpsGek> -Revert (r27232) [FS#6342]: No idea what the plan was, but making the main noise coefficients the same for all smoothness types certainly wasn't.
19:05:54 <andythenorth> start from a tiny island
19:06:50 <Alberth> sort of conquer the west, but instead raise the land
19:07:46 <andythenorth> different concepts
19:15:26 <andythenorth> could be a use for building materials
19:18:24 <andythenorth> I think there is lots of possibility in GS....
19:19:09 * andythenorth should test Zuu’s GS->newgrf patch
19:19:43 <planetmaker> hm... that would allow also interesting gameplay with (much) land at sea level. A GS which destroys dams randomly. And on the ohter hand also creates new land at sea level :)
19:45:21 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27335 trunk/src/lang/greek.txt (2015-07-16 19:45:15 +0200 )
19:45:22 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:45:23 <DorpsGek> greek - 24 changes by Jubilee
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20:03:40 <andythenorth> planetmaker: Dutch GS? o_O
20:03:56 <andythenorth> might need a scenario map :P
20:04:12 <Alberth> nah, we don't have floodings :p
20:10:50 <Rubidium> planetmaker: number 3 of my "bad for AI" scenarios
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20:34:49 * andythenorth wonders what the worst possible GS would be for AIs
20:36:59 <frosch123> randomly bulldoze tracks
20:37:50 * andythenorth ponders stock market GS
20:38:00 <andythenorth> “do you want to buy on margin?”
20:38:20 <frosch123> difficulty level: bavaria, russia, india
20:39:34 * andythenorth should start on frontier GS
20:39:40 <andythenorth> I don’t really understand GS
20:39:44 <andythenorth> but that’s no barrier eh?
20:42:31 <planetmaker> Rubidium, I had been thinking of that scenario, yes
20:46:32 * andythenorth tries to debug “Broken savegame - Too many NewGRF entity mappings”
20:47:41 <andythenorth> wondering if I had a locally applied patch
20:47:57 <andythenorth> hmm that would be it
20:48:20 <frosch123> the first version of more industries
20:48:21 <andythenorth> two different checkouts, one with patch, one without. Savegame not portable between them
20:48:35 <andythenorth> so this is not a bug
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20:53:44 <andythenorth> what config option do I set to silence sound effects on game screen?
20:54:12 <Rubidium> put duct tape on your mouth? ;)
21:28:16 <Alberth> are dairies supposed to have "mill" stations?
21:29:06 <frosch123> both are agricultural things
21:31:41 <Alberth> well, it also opens a "power plant" station near a steel mill, so I am not trusting name schemes of the new firs very much :p
21:32:50 <frosch123> electrical steel furnace :p
21:32:57 <frosch123> you can build them in factorio
21:33:06 <frosch123> but coal furnaces are more interesting
21:39:46 <andythenorth> Alberth: have a word with the authors of that ;)
21:42:20 <frosch123> i think the idea was really fancy
21:42:25 <frosch123> but noone gets it :p
21:44:09 <Alberth> industry would need more sparkles then :)
21:44:53 <frosch123> sparkles are for unicorns :)
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