IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-06-20
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02:28:25 <Sziha> Hello everyone. Quick question, in the screenshot topic, do you think it's ok to put pictures in between the text, or it's better to keep them as attachments (so they don't load when opening the website, but then less people see them^^)
02:32:35 <Eddi|zuHause> if you embed pictures, make sure they are not too big (both resolution and size)
02:33:59 <Eddi|zuHause> also, try to avoid linking to pictures on other servers like image hosters
02:35:05 <Sziha> yeah... that's what i thought ^^ there's no way for the forum to make a thumbnail of the picture i attached to the post?
02:35:38 <Eddi|zuHause> no idea, actually
02:36:10 <Sziha> well i couldn't find it so i guess not ^^ :)
02:36:10 <Eddi|zuHause> there are forums that make thumbnails, though
02:36:25 <Sziha> well i i'm thinking about tt-forums.net ;)
02:36:37 <Sziha> anyway, thanks for help Eddi!
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03:44:17 <supermop> some australian rock star is in my house
03:44:24 <supermop> have no idea who this guy is
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03:56:15 <Eddi|zuHause> if there only were a machine that could give you background information on people
03:58:00 <supermop> yeah reading his wikipedia page now
03:58:16 <supermop> i have never heard of this guy or any of his music
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09:01:11 <andythenorth> my previous favourite vehicle set has 15 different box truck models
09:01:40 <andythenorth> and 16 different mail trucks
09:11:14 <andythenorth> 1x GUI zoom is bonkers
09:11:18 <andythenorth> hwo did I ever use it?
09:11:30 <andythenorth> otoh, the vehicle sprites look way better in the buy menu at 1x :P
09:19:48 <Alberth> bigger GUI is just waste of screen space imho :)
09:20:27 <andythenorth> my eyes can’t see the small things any more :P
09:20:42 <andythenorth> 1990 (with vehicle expiry on)
09:20:46 <andythenorth> too many vehicles?
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09:47:46 <Alberth> that's why I added 'hide' buttons :)
09:50:23 <andythenorth> default temperate climate has 20 at same point in time
09:51:05 * andythenorth not sure what the problem is
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10:01:25 <andythenorth> yair, so what stops us doing RoadTypes?
10:11:07 <Alberth> is there a newgrf spec?
10:11:23 <Alberth> if yes, is there a c++ patch?
10:11:56 <Alberth> hmm, maybe first, is some dev convinced there is a need?
10:13:40 <andythenorth> I think the last reason
10:13:47 <andythenorth> need / benefit / interesting project
10:13:56 <andythenorth> we have tried to spec it n times
10:15:53 <andythenorth> V453000: will your trucks be RVs, or trains?
10:16:12 <andythenorth> thought you hated RVs?
10:16:20 <V453000> yeah but wanted to model them
10:16:22 * andythenorth considers doing RH as trains
10:16:43 <andythenorth> making RVs trains might be what players want
10:16:59 <V453000> I remembered what were the features, I basically just wanted parameters for purchase menu lists - you would either have 4 vehicles available (with refit, random colour), or separated by colour so you could buy individual colour, or separated by cargo, or by vehicle generations
10:17:12 <andythenorth> more varety for stations
10:18:06 <andythenorth> this is probably a good plan though
10:18:18 <andythenorth> I’ll have to change all the offsets though :(
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12:22:18 * andythenorth converts all RVs to trains
12:23:04 <andythenorth> how can I teach towns to build a raltype instead of road?
12:23:31 <Alberth> very very tricky, probably
12:23:48 <andythenorth> also newgrf spec needs to change
12:24:06 <andythenorth> there are some tile checks which can check landscape type and get road
12:24:12 <andythenorth> but they need to get the railtype instead
12:26:20 <Alberth> currently you cannot even use any rail tracks than your own
12:26:47 <Alberth> so town built road would be unusable
12:27:22 <andythenorth> merge infrastructure sharing?
12:27:45 <Alberth> something in that direction would be required indeed
12:29:24 <andythenorth> might be worth it
12:29:29 <andythenorth> it does get us roadtypes for free
12:30:01 <Alberth> what is the point exactly about road types?
12:31:06 <Alberth> just more forms of road?
12:32:03 <andythenorth> same as railtypes
12:32:07 <andythenorth> more forms of route
12:32:18 <andythenorth> choosing route type is interesting
12:32:23 <andythenorth> choosing vehicle type is mostly boring
12:32:48 <andythenorth> mostly, the type of route chosen should entail the type of vehicles you get
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12:34:23 <andythenorth> FWIW, I want to add ‘haul roads’
12:34:31 <andythenorth> which are incompatible with normal roads
12:34:36 <andythenorth> and have to be fitted into the landscape
12:35:37 <Alberth> tbh I don't understand more railtypes either, I'd want less railtypes rather than more :)
12:36:03 <Alberth> canal wouldn't work I guess as it has no 'direction'?
12:39:10 <Alberth> but yeah, I can see having different forms of road could be nice to have
12:40:05 <Alberth> just copy railtypes over to road?
12:45:02 <andythenorth> there is some spec problem
12:45:09 <andythenorth> oh yeah, railtypes aren’t combinable
12:45:15 <andythenorth> but apparently roadtypes have to be
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12:47:09 <Alberth> if you want common infra structure, as eg built by towns, that would be quite useful
12:50:18 <Eddi|zuHause> one of the proposed spec ideas had the notion that each tile has one "road-like" [e.g. cobblestone, asphalt] and one "tram-like" [e.g. trolleybus] roadtype on each tile
12:50:46 <frosch123> damn, why did i join? :p
12:50:47 <Alberth> why do road types need to be combinable, you'd just list the types with each vehicle?
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12:50:49 * andythenorth wonders if “tram-like” is why this got stuck
12:50:55 <Pikka> and what a terribly overcomplicated proposal that was, Eddi
12:51:01 <andythenorth> we broke frosch :(
12:51:12 <Eddi|zuHause> where the "tram-like" type can define whether it can be combined with a road [tram], must be combined with a road [trolleybus] or can't be combined with a road [metro]
12:51:34 <andythenorth> seems even more complicated than railtypes
12:51:44 <andythenorth> tbh, as a newgrf author I don’t understand railtypes
12:51:53 <andythenorth> somebody else (foobar) set it up for me
12:52:02 <andythenorth> it seems to need reading pages of spec and discussion
12:52:16 <andythenorth> compatibility and such
12:52:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: i rather think it doesn't go far enough
12:52:31 <andythenorth> speed limits, axle loadings, powered, unpowered
12:52:33 <Alberth> of course, lots of bike shedding to do here andy
12:52:50 * andythenorth would just have one roadtype per tile
12:52:55 <Pikka> doesn't it Eddi? what else do you think it needs?
12:53:27 <Alberth> number of sharp objects at this part, chance of puncture
12:53:33 * andythenorth wants “if you want to use these vehicles you’re going to have find space on your map for a new route"
12:53:54 <andythenorth> skid risk, chance of flying stones, maximum axle weight
12:54:00 <andythenorth> number of squirrels per tile
12:54:09 <andythenorth> chance of hitting a deer or a roo
12:54:12 <Pikka> single-layer roadtype. build over others roads iff all vehicles on that road can run on this road, cache the roadtype of the surrounding 4 tiles to do grf-magic for different roadtype intersections.
12:54:22 <andythenorth> “this truck has an axle loading of 22t, and roo bars”
12:54:23 <Pikka> that's the only sensible way to make it work imo
12:54:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: you can't cross a trolleybus route with a tram route with this spec
12:55:07 <andythenorth> you can’t build a ng track piece on the same tile as a standard gauge piece
12:55:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: you run out of roadtypes with your spec :p
12:55:40 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: michi_cc had a patch for that
12:55:54 <andythenorth> meh, I don’t think it’s needed
12:56:15 <andythenorth> same as diagonal bridges and tunnels, overkill
12:56:20 <Pikka> road... hell, 8 flavours of road. tram with road, tram without road, trolleybus... I'm struggling to run out of roadtypes. :)
12:56:41 <andythenorth> road, haul road, tramway, electic tramway
12:57:18 <andythenorth> speed limits on the route is a dumb idea
12:57:31 <Alberth> yeah, sure, just look at the screenshot forum :)
12:57:32 <andythenorth> it’s why all the railtype grfs seem so stupid
12:57:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i think highway or avenues have a place in this game, but they should be independent from roadtypes. they behave more like objects (with a state machine)
12:57:52 <Pikka> speed limits by different road surfaces if you must... still doesn't run out of roadtypes any time soon, if you have 16.
12:57:52 <andythenorth> the problem is overtaking
12:57:58 <andythenorth> nothing to do with roadtype
12:58:12 <Pikka> better overtaking behaviour on one-way roads, perhaps?
12:58:19 <andythenorth> new state machine
12:58:29 <andythenorth> orthogonal to roadtypes
12:59:06 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: road decorations by foobar for example? would be nice if you can really drive of them
12:59:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: yes, something like that
12:59:33 <andythenorth> then it’s easier
12:59:37 <Pikka> trams are the problem, for sure
12:59:43 <andythenorth> trams are a problem
12:59:49 <Pikka> get rid of them, or rather reinstate them with the new roadtype spec
13:00:05 <Pikka> trams are great but the current implentation is terrible
13:00:26 <andythenorth> railtypes don’t have the tram problem
13:00:30 <Eddi|zuHause> how would a different implementation not be terrible?
13:00:37 <Pikka> they should be like railtypes
13:01:02 <Pikka> all roadtypes created equal, not a half-baked special case for tramlines
13:01:25 <andythenorth> ‘narrow gauge with maglev'
13:01:34 <andythenorth> would have worked excellently :P
13:01:48 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: i'm not getting your point
13:02:07 <andythenorth> all the types have to be combinable with trams
13:02:12 <andythenorth> which makes it insane
13:02:38 <Pikka> and then people are (quite reasonably) going to want different kinds of tram lines too
13:02:58 <Eddi|zuHause> you can easily make a flag "can't be combined with tram"
13:03:06 <Pikka> but tram shouldn't be a special case
13:03:15 <Pikka> it should just become another roadtype
13:03:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: that makes it terrible and cumbersome to add tram to existing road
13:03:48 <Pikka> about as difficult as electrifying a railway line
13:03:54 <Eddi|zuHause> run tram over competitors road? never.
13:04:06 <andythenorth> perhaps electrifying should be done separate to railtype?
13:04:08 <Pikka> "build over others roads iff all vehicles on that road can run on this road"
13:04:09 <andythenorth> maybe railtypes is wrong?
13:04:50 <andythenorth> split the build tools?
13:04:58 <Pikka> if we hadn't had fudgey trams we could have had roadtypes not long after railtypes, I reckon
13:05:09 <andythenorth> ‘tramway cannot be built here'
13:05:16 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27300 trunk/src/group_gui.cpp (2015-06-20 13:05:11 +0200 )
13:05:17 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6306]: Silence GCC warning (Cif)
13:05:42 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: i think the existance of trams easily trumps the benefits of roadtypes
13:06:27 * andythenorth thinks they should have been split
13:06:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i'll trade the current system of road+tram over a hacked "road with embedded tram" implemented as roadtype
13:06:39 <andythenorth> they’re different transport types that behave differently
13:06:48 <andythenorth> roadtypes, tramtypes
13:07:29 <andythenorth> one roadtype per tile, which may or may not be over-built with tramtype
13:07:55 <andythenorth> it’s weird, but all the other ways are insane
13:08:01 <Eddi|zuHause> that is exactly the proposal i'm talking about.
13:08:32 <andythenorth> trams are fundamentally different: they move differently, and they require a closed loop system
13:09:18 <andythenorth> that closed loop system could incidentally be used for pipelines as hax
13:09:26 <andythenorth> but that’s not relevant :P
13:10:19 <andythenorth> to me the missing part in past discussion is the idea of splitting the build tool
13:10:58 <Eddi|zuHause> sure, get frosch to do it :p
13:12:36 <Pikka> someone should write one
13:13:23 <andythenorth> I don’t understand all the compatibility crap
13:13:47 <andythenorth> also my spec would rule out axle weight limits, co-efficient of friction on road surface,
13:14:00 <andythenorth> might keep “number of roos per tile” though
13:14:15 <Pikka> exle weight limits is dumb
13:14:31 <Pikka> actually friction might be boring
13:14:40 <Eddi|zuHause> axle weight can be implicit info like with railtypes
13:14:43 <andythenorth> speed limits are stupid
13:15:06 <Eddi|zuHause> speed limits, and a flag that town can't grow along highspeed roads
13:15:12 <andythenorth> or haul roads :P
13:15:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't understand your haul roads
13:16:12 <Pikka> flag for towns will grow, flag for towns will build
13:17:01 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i mean, i don't understand the gameplay value
13:17:20 <andythenorth> high capacity trucks
13:17:31 <andythenorth> it’s niche, like narrow gauge trains
13:17:55 <andythenorth> incompatible with other roadtypes, so you have to fit it into the landscape
13:28:27 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27301 trunk/src/timetable_cmd.cpp (2015-06-20 13:28:25 +0200 )
13:28:29 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6313] (r26550): Modifying timetable times or speeds always confirmed all pre-estimated values.
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13:42:02 <andythenorth> Pikka: so one roadtype and one tramtype per tile, and if the graphics for that look awful, that’s just tough?
13:42:59 <Pikka> well, having unified roadtypes might reduce the awfulness... but I guess so.
13:43:25 <Eddi|zuHause> the next problem was finding enough bits on rail crossings to store all that
13:44:22 <Eddi|zuHause> that is an implementation problem, but the spec might need to consider that
13:47:18 <andythenorth> I am +1 to separate tramtype because cleaning up mis-built junctions would be horrible if tram was unified with road when building
13:52:12 <andythenorth> how is tram<->road compatibility determined?
13:52:21 <andythenorth> compatible AND compatible?
13:52:30 <andythenorth> both types must agree?
13:53:48 <Pikka> I am +1 to separate tramtype because cleaning up mis-built junctions would be horrible if tram was unified with road when building <- there's only one roadtype per tile, making junctions look nice would be up to the newgrf. but if we're seperating them it's moot
13:55:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: making junctions look nice with combined types would be horrible. imagine cobblestone, asphalt, cobblestone+tram, asphalt+tram. you have already too many combinations to check whether you should draw tram rail on each leg of the junction
13:55:57 <andythenorth> maybe I miss something :)
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13:56:16 * andythenorth must to looking after children
13:56:38 <andythenorth> roadtypes or die
13:56:40 <Pikka> eddi: having a combined-tram-and-every-roadsurface roadtype is a sensible idea?
13:57:22 <Pikka> and no, you don't "already too many combinations to check whether you should draw tram rail on each leg of the junction". These wouldn't be difficult tests at all.
13:57:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: the tram is an overlay (like it is now) and the transparency takes care of the road surfaces
13:57:46 <Pikka> if we're going with the seperate layers idea, which apparently we are :)
13:57:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: you have to keep in mind that you can't assume you know all roadtypes currently active. they might come from a different grf
13:58:17 <Pikka> no, but if there's one roadtype per tile you know all the roadtypes on this tile
13:58:52 <Eddi|zuHause> or maybe we're talking about completely different things :p
13:59:06 <Pikka> anyway, a new spec with seperate tramlines
14:00:37 <Eddi|zuHause> specs always sound easy, until you get to all the corner cases :p
14:00:53 <Eddi|zuHause> like the current trams lack an underlay for rail crossings without road
14:04:33 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27302 trunk/src/timetable_cmd.cpp (2015-06-20 14:04:30 +0200 )
14:04:34 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6313] (r26550): Updating timetables need to check the timetable flags from the real order instead of from a copy. (marcole)
14:23:06 <Pikka> that's why you keep it simple, Eddi
14:23:16 <Pikka> and treat "realism" as a dirty word :)
14:29:39 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27303 trunk/src/widget.cpp (2015-06-20 14:29:36 +0200 )
14:29:40 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6321]: SetMinimalSize was ignored for WWT_EDITBOX.
14:30:13 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27304 trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp (2015-06-20 14:30:10 +0200 )
14:30:14 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6321-ish]: Improve password window layout for big font sizes.
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14:40:07 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27305 trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp (2015-06-20 14:40:04 +0200 )
14:40:08 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6320]: Account for road-bridges and drive-through-stops in CanFollowRoad.
14:55:19 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27306 trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp (2015-06-20 14:55:17 +0200 )
14:55:20 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r27305): Confused tiles.
14:57:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: i try to avoid the word "realism", because using it triggers all sorts of unwanted reactions
14:57:37 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27307 trunk/src/error_gui.cpp (2015-06-20 14:57:34 +0200 )
14:57:38 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6259]: Error message window with manager face failed with GUI zoom. (Johnnei)
15:11:12 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27308 /trunk/src (road_cmd.cpp station_cmd.cpp) (2015-06-20 15:11:09 +0200 )
15:11:13 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6283]: Prevent breaking of tram-reversal points by adding more road pieces. (adf88)
15:15:37 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27309 trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp (2015-06-20 15:15:35 +0200 )
15:15:38 <DorpsGek> -Change [FS#6283]: Auto-complete partial roads when building level-crossings. (adf88)
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15:42:37 <planetmaker> ah, there the spammer quaks^Wcomes :)
15:43:32 <frosch123> is it safe again? :)
15:44:14 <Eddi|zuHause> only if you start implementing the results of our discussion :p
15:44:35 <frosch123> can i kick you for every line i write?
15:44:51 <Eddi|zuHause> if that helps you... :p
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16:45:46 <andythenorth> frosch123: this is not a safe space
16:45:51 <andythenorth> you may find triggers here
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17:09:16 <andythenorth> trams ignore one way
17:09:26 <andythenorth> probably correct
17:09:56 <Alberth> only when they enter from the wrong side :p
17:10:12 <Hiddenfunstuff> umm how the tram tracks would work as one way way
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17:21:55 <andythenorth> my typos are appalling :P
17:22:00 <andythenorth> I swear they get worse
17:45:29 <Alberth> how is the UI relevant?
17:52:35 <andythenorth> it’s how my brain works
17:52:40 <andythenorth> it’s a distraction though
17:53:07 <andythenorth> I design specs by “what does the user click on”
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17:55:03 <andythenorth> there’s hardly any spec here yet
17:58:33 <andythenorth> level crossings might be a problem
18:00:08 <andythenorth> only 8 bits free
18:01:42 <Alberth> that sounds like a problem :p
18:01:52 <andythenorth> are tramways shared currently?
18:02:00 <andythenorth> I can’t figure out how to get 2 companies in my game for testing :P
18:02:17 <Alberth> cheat to another company?
18:02:29 <Alberth> maybe you need to add a competitor?
18:03:48 <andythenorth> yeah, tramways are shared
18:06:03 <andythenorth> presumably a crossing needs fewer bits for road pieces
18:06:22 <andythenorth> as there must always be 2, orthogonal to the rail track
18:07:06 <andythenorth> so the presence of a railtype on the tile means that the road piece bits aren’t needed at all
18:07:20 <andythenorth> unless the RV pathfinder relies on reading them
18:07:25 <andythenorth> so much andythenorth doesn’t understand :P
18:08:01 <Alberth> if so, RV pathfinder is fixable, I'd say
18:08:25 <andythenorth> crossings are a mess anyway :P
18:08:28 <andythenorth> I tried fixing them once
18:08:55 <andythenorth> they draw road pieces under trams, and iirc they have some dubious behaviour with/without railtypes
18:09:14 <andythenorth> can tramways cross rail anyway?
18:11:13 <andythenorth> the foamers do :)
18:14:16 <Alberth> of course, they just copy reality :)
18:16:17 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: sure, tram crossing rail is done all the time
18:16:45 <andythenorth> not sure how many bits we need, but one solution would be to disallow traim-rail crossings
18:16:46 <Eddi|zuHause> tram crossing electric rail is a bit more complicated, but it's done also occasionally
18:17:03 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that is a horrible gameplay restriction
18:17:23 <andythenorth> there’s probably a better way
18:17:44 <andythenorth> but crossings are blearch
18:17:58 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: did that paste consider the new map structure since heightlevels? it may have few more bits
18:18:10 <andythenorth> I am just reading some old one I have
18:19:17 <andythenorth> we didn’t think crossings would be a problem in 2012
18:19:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm quite certain "we" did :p
18:19:47 <andythenorth> when the proposed spec was two types per tile, and each type provided an (optional) composite of road, rail, catenary
18:22:09 <andythenorth> to put it another way, nothing was written down about it :P
18:32:20 <andythenorth> looks like owner is already handled on level crossings for roadtype 0 and 1
18:33:08 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but a) there is no way currently to have tram without road, and b) the roadtype must be stored additionally
18:34:00 <andythenorth> according to this old spec I am looking at, there are 5 bits free
18:34:12 <andythenorth> where do I find the up-do-date version?
18:34:17 <andythenorth> must be in svn somewhere
18:37:34 <andythenorth> roadtype needs 4 bytes?
18:56:49 <Eddi|zuHause> you need 4 bit for the roadtype and 4 bit for the tramtype
18:57:39 <Eddi|zuHause> m4 seems to be available? it says "inherit", but the one above is all free
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19:09:03 <andythenorth> think m4 is used for landscape
19:09:14 <andythenorth> inherits from the rail bits for m4?
19:35:26 <andythenorth> m7 7 and 6 would become available?
19:36:03 <andythenorth> (present road types)
19:37:28 <andythenorth> there are 8 bits free at crossings anyway
19:37:41 <andythenorth> should be enough
19:39:37 <andythenorth> owner seems to be already known everywhere
19:40:13 <andythenorth> and there’s a cunning hack on roadtype 1 (tram) - towns don’t build trams, so OWNER_NONE is stored as OWNER_TOWN :P
19:45:23 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27310 trunk/src/lang/norwegian_bokmal.txt (2015-06-20 19:45:17 +0200 )
19:45:24 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:45:25 <DorpsGek> norwegian_bokmal - 79 changes by eirik174
19:50:14 <andythenorth> just 8 roadtypes and 8 tramtypes? o_O
19:50:24 <andythenorth> only 3 bits each, leaves some free for unknown future
19:56:25 <peter1138> Who cares? Nobody is going to code it.
19:57:28 <andythenorth> that’s what they said about...
19:57:32 * andythenorth thinks of something
20:07:13 <andythenorth> eh, how hard can it be?
20:25:25 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest2290
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20:55:18 <frosch123> pff, how do you search for / with vi? :p
20:56:07 <Alberth> ie escape the character :)
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21:01:31 <frosch123> does it mean anything if firefox show stuff in red in the source view?
21:02:55 <frosch123> and how the hell does class="clearfix" work?
21:03:38 <andythenorth> red is a syntax error
21:03:43 <andythenorth> is it on the doctype?
21:03:59 <frosch123> no it is on various closing tags
21:04:13 <andythenorth> can I see this page somehow?
21:04:13 <frosch123> and also on some singular tags like <p />
21:04:26 <frosch123> eints string edit page
21:04:32 <andythenorth> <p /> is nonsense :)
21:04:48 <frosch123> it created some vertical space
21:05:05 <frosch123> <div class="clearfix" /> <- the "/" is also red there
21:05:18 <frosch123> and sometimes the clearfix works, and sometimes it does not
21:05:25 <andythenorth> depends on preceeding content
21:05:34 <andythenorth> if there’s no float, then clearfix won’t do much
21:05:54 <andythenorth> dunno why firefox doesn’t like self-closed divs
21:07:23 <Sylf> so it should have some kind of content
21:07:30 <andythenorth> yeah invalid if self-closed
21:08:37 <andythenorth> I could fix eints :P
21:08:42 <andythenorth> I probably didn’t validate it
21:10:48 <andythenorth> frosch123: file a ticket if you want :)
21:10:53 <andythenorth> then remind me ;)
21:22:50 <frosch123> got rid of the red by trial and error
21:23:12 <frosch123> <input class="btn btn-primary pull-right" type="submit" value="Save Changes & Get Next String"/> <- well except there
21:23:42 <frosch123> hmm, actually it's a different shade of red
21:23:48 <frosch123> so, i guess that is for escapes :)
21:40:21 <andythenorth> it probably hates the escape in the value
21:40:37 <andythenorth> yeah actually probably just a different escape
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22:04:46 <andythenorth> we’re using eints to translate trunk too? o_O
22:05:00 * andythenorth should improve the skin
22:30:31 <andythenorth> this game is getting boring now
22:30:38 <andythenorth> not enough different types of transport
22:32:46 <frosch123> want to add bucket brigades?
22:34:07 <andythenorth> also I’m accidentally playing ‘daylength'
22:34:19 <andythenorth> because Iron Horse and Road Hog have nothing new after 2000 or so
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continue to next day ⏵
