IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-06-21
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00:28:05 *** Hiddenfunstuff has quit IRC
01:10:47 *** Gantradies has joined #openttd
01:11:38 <Gantradies> hey, i need some server admin techsupport
01:11:49 <Gantradies> haveing port/ gateway adress issues
01:12:48 <Gantradies> to quote my syadmin:
01:12:50 <Gantradies> have a range of IP Addresses for the servers to sit on. the problem is the main gateway address for them to LOOK to see if they are connected to the internet is on 216.229.78.5 the problem is if your server side software doesn't support redirecting that Gateway look at address then its not going to work and the master servers are always going to think its trying to connect to it on the .5 instead of the .7 were the ports are forwarded.\ <13
01:13:10 <Gantradies> have a range of IP Addresses for the servers to sit on. the problem is the main gateway address for them to LOOK to see if they are connected to the internet is on 216.229.78.5 the problem is if your server side software doesn't support redirecting that Gateway look at address then its not going to work and the master servers are always going to think its trying to connect to it on the .5 instead of the .7 were the ports are forwarded.\ <13
01:13:22 <Gantradies> heres the other part I don't have any firewall rules setup on the main Gateway address becuase its bad practice. so in short i'm not but in the mean time look up how to change the (my server is really at this address) setting
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01:44:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Gantradies: you can bind to a specific IP in the .cfg or from the command line
01:46:10 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure if that applies to your problem, though
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02:30:43 <Gantradies> im not an expert on network, but by sysadmin said its something to do with the gateway not using a default ip
02:31:39 <Gantradies> basically, teh console session keeps listing errors claiming teh ADvertiseing port isnt open, and my admin insists it is
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04:16:09 <Gantradies> *sigh* noone able to help?
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04:57:13 <Gantradies> anotherr check, anoyne up for hlaping me with a netweork issues with my server?
04:57:34 <Gantradies> soemtihng aobut it having issues with the gateway adress
05:01:20 <mari_kiri> Gantradies: What OS does your server run and is it a VPS?
05:01:42 <mari_kiri> Also I think the longest I've had to wait on IRC to get a question answered was about 24 hours
05:12:47 <Gantradies> its win7 VM i believe
05:13:12 <Gantradies> sorry ofr teh slow response kiri
05:14:48 <Gantradies> its saying it needs port 3979 forewarded on tcp and UDP even othugh it allready is
05:18:45 <Gantradies> my clans sysadmin said that its an issue with the game having issues finding the gateway adress, i believe
05:42:48 <mari_kiri> Gantradies: Can we assume that you have DHCP set up properly?
05:42:59 <mari_kiri> Also I can't really help much with Windows networking
05:51:40 <Gantradies> yeah, admin's been owrking in it since i could barely walk >.<
05:54:59 <Gantradies> if im remembering his explanation right, the issue is the gateway isnt using the default IP, and the game isnt realising this ( im running it in dedicated mode)
05:58:54 <ST2> Gantradies: are ports set on router to redirect to computer where server is set?
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07:15:26 <Gantradies> my origional server was running on a Linuix Vm console session, but since it
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07:16:10 <Gantradies> but ren opened the prots for my windows vm runnign my space negineers server ( sicne i know iwndows a lot better sao i can do updates ect easier, plus i hate usiong nano to edit openttd.cfg >.<)
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08:04:21 <Alberth> how is the train truck?
08:14:11 <andythenorth> I did try converting Road Hog to trains
08:14:23 <andythenorth> but some of the properties don’t match up, so I reverted :P
08:20:56 <Alberth> no driving trains through small town streets thus :)
08:21:50 <Alberth> oh dear, what have I done???? :)
08:23:29 <andythenorth> nah that’s just HEQS
08:34:54 <Supercheese> roads as railtype...
08:36:38 <blathijs> Interesting seems a compiled 1.5.1 is a bit smaller than 1.5.0? :-)
08:41:07 <Alberth> used same compiler?? :)
08:43:34 <mari_kiri> Alberth: Looks suspiciously like a bug that could be promoted to an optional feature
08:45:04 <andythenorth> bonjour Pikka bob
08:45:09 <andythenorth> did you do roadtypes spec yet?
08:45:45 <andythenorth> Alberth: why is that signal emitting diesel smoke anyway? :P
08:46:58 <Alberth> smokin' busy moving steel
08:55:57 <andythenorth> Alberth: iirc, with the effects callback you can change the smoke in newgrf :P
08:57:22 <Alberth> it might not even need effects cb, just change the default smoke?
09:05:42 <Pikka> every time I came back to "single roadtype is easier". although having a seperate track-layer sprite might be useful. :)
09:07:10 <andythenorth> effectively there are already two types
09:07:19 <andythenorth> and all the stuff in place to handle that
09:07:43 <andythenorth> allow label-driven types for each of those, job done
09:08:02 <andythenorth> if we did 8 road, 8 tram, we’d only need 3 bits for each, not 4
09:08:03 <Pikka> I mean single roadtype per tile... which would mean making what we have now into 3 roadtypes...
09:08:13 <andythenorth> combinatorial hell :D
09:08:34 <andythenorth> cobble road with tram tracks and no catenary
09:08:44 <andythenorth> cobble road with tram tracks and catenary
09:09:23 <Pikka> you don't need to combine every road surface with every tram variant unless you really want to. :) and if tram tracks were seperate sprites (but not seperately buildable layer) it wouldn't need any extra sprites.
09:11:20 <andythenorth> 1 type per tile saves a lot of bits
09:13:22 <andythenorth> how would construction work though?
09:13:27 <Pikka> less fiddly to build if trammy-tiles autoconnect and we get rid of the half-tile turnarounds, make it so all trams have to be loops.
09:13:30 <Pikka> like current road I guess
09:13:42 <andythenorth> say I want to build a tram route, 50% over road and 50% over bare land
09:13:54 <andythenorth> I have to switch roadtype after 50%?
09:14:14 <andythenorth> first I choose ‘road with tram’
09:14:19 <andythenorth> then I switch to ‘tram'
09:14:49 <andythenorth> and if I overbuild existing ‘road’ with ‘tram’ I get just tram
09:15:14 <Pikka> you'd probably have to use the convert tool, similar to trying to overbuild different types of rail
09:15:38 <Pikka> if you convert road to tram you get just tram, if you convert road to tram with road you get...
09:16:05 <andythenorth> so for trolleybus + tram, I need ‘road with trolleybus and tram'
09:16:52 <Pikka> yes. or electric tram if you let trolleybuses run under tram wires, which would seem sensible to me
09:17:04 <andythenorth> and for ‘sealed gravel road with 750V DC trolleybus and 3’6” 1500v tram with grooved rail"
09:17:28 <andythenorth> well either route works for me
09:17:57 <andythenorth> I think tram and RV are separate, so I slightly favour roadtypes + tramtypes
09:18:19 <andythenorth> the other option has simplicity
09:18:47 <Pikka> I think if tram had, for example, signals or some kind of priority over RVs it could be seen as a seperate thing. but at the moment it's just a special-cased roadtype imo.
09:42:18 <andythenorth> Alberth: wondering about a variant of Busy Bee where it handles industry opening (and maybe closing)
09:43:08 <Alberth> closing isn't going to fly due to newgrf specs
09:43:51 <andythenorth> we can ignore that for now
09:44:00 <Alberth> opening..... setting it to 'none' industries, and opening each one ?
09:44:09 <andythenorth> the idea would be to start with a low-industry map (via map gen settings)
09:44:16 <andythenorth> and then have Busy Bee provide both industries and goals
09:44:35 <andythenorth> it needs enough variation that the gameplay isn’t 100% linear
09:44:45 <andythenorth> i.e. player still has some choices
09:45:06 * andythenorth increasingly also thinks that daylength might be a thing :P
09:45:08 <Alberth> you have several goals now too
09:49:04 <andythenorth> daylength in newgrf :P
09:49:18 <andythenorth> I dunno if I want to find all the places that ‘date’ and ‘days since’ are used :P
09:57:41 <Pikka> daylength is not a thing
09:58:02 <Pikka> people who think they want daylength actually want something else, eg fewer vehicle models, or a smaller map
09:58:13 <andythenorth> I want longer between vehicle introductions
09:58:26 <Pikka> then you need fewer vehicle models, clearly :)
09:58:39 <andythenorth> I have ‘solved’ it by playing after 2000 with my own newgrfs
09:58:48 <andythenorth> I cba to provide any new vehicles after 2000
09:59:00 <andythenorth> and all trains and trucks are leet by then anyway :P
09:59:02 <Pikka> me neither. or at least not "futuristic" vehicles
09:59:20 <Pikka> if we push back to 1900, that's still 100 years, right?
10:00:58 <Pikka> original game provides vehicles 1950-2050
10:01:06 <Pikka> we provide 1900-2000, still the same amount of gameplay
10:01:24 <andythenorth> I provide 1860-2010
10:01:39 <andythenorth> “50% extra free"
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10:14:04 <Alberth> but still too many vehicles, apparently
10:14:47 <andythenorth> considering adding a few more right now
10:15:07 <Alberth> maybe you shouldn't try using all of them in the same game :)
10:18:32 <Supercheese> too many vehicles --> "Hide vehicle"
10:29:12 <Alberth> you'd have to choose which ones you hide, and chosing is difficult :)
10:32:47 <Taede> create an age-based filter?
10:32:56 <Taede> hide all vehicles over 40years old
10:36:00 <andythenorth> I think that’s a nice idea
10:36:09 <andythenorth> we could call it ‘vehicle expiry’ ? o_O
10:47:06 <Alberth> just randomly decide whether to introduce a vehicle :)
10:56:17 <andythenorth> eh it’s pretty silly that GS can’t close industry
10:56:22 <andythenorth> I know [because newgrf]
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11:15:30 <andythenorth> all trucks need to go same speed, per generation
11:15:45 <andythenorth> ‘slow’ is also relative
11:19:30 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27311 /trunk/src (road_cmd.cpp station_cmd.cpp) (2015-06-21 11:19:27 +0200 )
11:19:31 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Mark infrastructure window dirty in more cases. (marcole)
11:19:46 <peter1138> Why do they need to go the same speed?
11:26:58 <supermop> trying to understand why there is a snowplow on that thing
11:28:12 <frosch123> where is the third rail?
11:29:22 <andythenorth> there is no overtaking :{
11:31:53 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27312 trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp (2015-06-21 11:31:50 +0200 )
11:31:54 <DorpsGek> -Fix-ish [FS#6317]: Preserve town ownership of bridges when removing road from a road+tram bridge. (marcole)
11:33:04 <andythenorth> someone has been busy o_O
11:33:23 <supermop> pretty sure if they had snow in miami, let alone enough to need a snowplow, trains would not be running
11:34:32 <supermop> frosch123: but town doesn't build tram, so i would be removing the town's road?
11:34:35 <andythenorth> how do I get the faster trucks to pass the smaller trucks?
11:34:45 <andythenorth> even if I build dual carriageway sections they don’t use them
11:34:54 <andythenorth> pathfinder doesn’t seem to look ahead
11:35:06 <andythenorth> although curve penalty and so on should be equal for both routes
11:35:20 <andythenorth> road pathfinder ignores other vehicles I assume?
11:35:55 <Alberth> I don't think so, they distribute themselves nicely at drive-through stations
11:36:29 <supermop> Alberth: when i have a drive through tram stop on a little loop at end of aa line,
11:37:09 <supermop> if 2nd tram is right behind the first, it will not go around the loop opposite way
11:37:18 <supermop> ive noticed with trucks too
11:37:41 <andythenorth> I think the game wants me to build trains?
11:37:42 <supermop> so if the 2nd is running late and needs to use the loop to pass the first, it cannot
11:38:00 <Alberth> I don't know the details, but if they fully ignore other vehicles, they'd never go around
11:38:45 <peter1138> Probably need to tweak penalties.
11:40:00 <frosch123> roadstops keep track on the "total length" of vehicles loading and heading to it per loading bay
11:40:12 <frosch123> the pathfinder adds that to penalties
11:40:24 <frosch123> normal road tiles are not checked for rv, that's far too expensive
11:40:50 <peter1138> Makes the cache (is it still cached) uselessish...
11:41:46 <supermop> 2nd vehicle only goes around if it is far behind the first
11:42:10 <supermop> but then in that case it has less need of the ability to pass
11:44:42 <andythenorth> it’s probably best ‘solved’ by newgrf design
11:44:52 <andythenorth> unify all the speeds, the issue disappears
11:45:58 <supermop> andythenorth: my problem arises most with a fleet of identical vehicles, but with one running late in the timetable
11:46:08 <supermop> basically 'bus bunching'
11:46:55 <andythenorth> but in that case the late one can’t overtake anyway?
11:47:00 <andythenorth> because they all have same top speed?
11:47:18 <supermop> could pass in loop if possible
11:47:49 <supermop> imagine tram #3 is stuck behind tram #4
11:48:15 <supermop> tram 4 is on time so will take full time at each stop, while #3 stayed late
11:52:33 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27313 trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp (2015-06-21 11:52:30 +0200 )
11:52:34 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6317]: Adding tram to town-owned bridges assigned an incorrect owner to the tram and did not count infrastructure counts properly. (marcole)
11:53:19 <supermop> rigid busses do not have the problem - so long as there is at least one terminus bus stop on the route, theyy can lay up and let a bus pass
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12:10:31 <andythenorth> even the rigid trucks can’t pass :P
12:10:34 <andythenorth> too much oncoming traffic
12:13:41 <frosch123> well, add road usage to the pathfinder :p
12:13:58 <frosch123> add 6 busy bits for the 6 trackdirs per tile
12:14:21 <frosch123> set them in the vehicle tick for the trackbit the vehicle is on
12:14:27 <frosch123> and clear them in the road tileloop
12:14:39 <frosch123> that should give you some statistical usage result
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12:22:47 <andythenorth> uses up bits that could be used for roadtypes? o_O
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12:27:54 <peter1138> Just add more bits.
12:28:04 <peter1138> Everyone has 16GB RAM these days...
12:40:36 <Taede> i suppose i could photoshop a 1 in front of the 6
12:42:47 <Alberth> just don't play 4096x4096 :)
12:45:54 <frosch123> it has never been about the ram, we have 2gb of sprtiecache. it has always been about savegame size and network join times
12:47:52 <frosch123> and about duchebags complaining that they cannot upload their 50 mb savegame of an empty map to fs or forums
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12:49:48 <frosch123> coulomb couldn't handle the load :p
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12:59:32 <andythenorth> every time I complete a Busy Bee goal it gives me another one
12:59:38 <andythenorth> so I can never finish this game :(
13:01:34 <Alberth> computers are silly beings :p
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13:12:38 <andythenorth> busy roads are mesmerising in the game
13:12:50 * andythenorth sitting watching like a ninny
13:15:21 <Alberth> make a looping video, done
13:18:58 <supermop> i usually lose several years of game time to watching busy stations
13:20:05 <Alberth> I save, watch, reload, and continue editing :)
13:20:08 * andythenorth must to the seaside
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16:23:46 <frosch123> LordAro wanting to commit stuff... what is this madness :p
16:24:10 <LordAro> not my fault someone found a bug in aroai
16:24:23 <LordAro> well, it's more that i found some stuff that i never pushed
16:33:11 <LordAro> wait, i made ~30 commits that i never released?
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16:38:39 <frosch123> did you have issues with sleep walking somewhen? :p
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17:23:16 * LordAro finds a `if (fullstop = false)` in his code
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18:03:22 <Alberth> I hope you found it quicker than I did, I needed at least 15 minutes for that :)
18:04:56 <LordAro> i wasn't even looking for it :p
18:05:04 <LordAro> it was just right there in front of me :)
18:07:40 <LordAro> hmm, how do i do global enums in squirrel...
18:09:18 <Alberth> don't know if you can
18:09:25 <Alberth> a few constants in a class?
18:09:41 <LordAro> yeah, i suspect that's what i'll end up doing
18:11:17 <frosch123> java lived for years without enums
18:11:50 <frosch123> c++ needed 40 years to make them well-defined
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19:45:18 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27314 trunk/src/lang/norwegian_bokmal.txt (2015-06-21 19:45:13 +0200 )
19:45:19 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:45:20 <DorpsGek> norwegian_bokmal - 4 changes by eirik174
19:52:21 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27315 trunk/src/lang/norwegian_bokmal.txt (2015-06-21 19:52:18 +0200 )
19:52:22 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Norwegian bokmal
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20:29:20 <LordAro> what's the best way to get passenger cargo id nowadays? i've fixed the bug, but it thinks it's building routes for tourists instead
20:32:17 <frosch123> the cargo label is always the best method
20:33:53 <frosch123> who wrote that note in the docs? :p
20:34:01 <LordAro> "Note: Never use this to check if it is a certain cargo. NewGRF can redefine all of the names." :p
20:37:38 <LordAro> so is it safe or not? :L
20:37:58 <frosch123> what do you want to do?
20:38:04 <LordAro> i've been using `(AICargo.HasCargoClass(i, AICargo.CC_PASSENGERS) && AICargo.GetTownEffect(i) == AICargo.TE_PASSENGERS)` until now
20:38:07 <frosch123> why do you care about pax vs. tourists?
20:38:32 <LordAro> i don't know what the differences are
20:38:44 <frosch123> towneffects is certainly the most undefined thing there is :p
20:38:53 <frosch123> anyway, why do you mind transporting tourists?
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20:42:29 <LordAro> it seems that they're produced less than pax
20:43:25 <LordAro> but the vehicle that gets selected (code stolen from nocab long ago) can transport pax fine anyway
20:53:26 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27316 trunk/src/script/api/script_cargo.hpp (2015-06-21 20:53:23 +0200 )
20:53:27 <DorpsGek> -Doc: Improve documentation on ScriptCargo::GetCargoLabel
20:59:44 <frosch123> why would someone use a dot in a class name in squirrel?
21:00:03 <frosch123> does it really allow that? or does it have some special meaning?
21:10:13 <frosch123> see the squirrel2doxygen topic :)
21:20:48 <LordAro> planetmaker: can has compile farm?
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22:11:26 <andythenorth> only 2015 edition
22:16:35 <Supercheese> Could add it for kicks
22:16:48 <Supercheese> isometric sprites already exist for Civ3
22:17:05 <frosch123> vulcan was a east german ship manufactory that bankrupted in the 90s
22:17:45 <frosch123> ooops, it's west german
22:17:45 <Supercheese> sexy beast of an airplane
22:18:09 <Supercheese> blows the canberra out of the water
22:18:15 <frosch123> i always thought it bankrupted together with all the other east german things
22:21:22 <andythenorth> Supercheese: it’s astounding, that is not hype
22:21:26 <andythenorth> last flying season this year
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23:22:42 <MeSaber> can i have someones attention about payment rates?
23:23:32 <MeSaber> trying to figure out why my numbers dont correspond to what im testing
23:23:51 <MeSaber> and what "immediate" for passengers really mean
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23:41:45 <MeSaber> figured it out.. thx for help :D
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