IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-06-16
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01:01:36 <EXetoC> djdave: do you like trains?
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01:35:55 <Flygon> bootmii for most interesting name 2015 :D
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01:39:20 <djdave> I live in Scranton PA.. USA.. AKA Steamtown USA
01:40:06 <djdave> BBL.. off to pool league.
01:43:14 <Flygon> America has such exotic town names O_o
01:43:27 <Flygon> Then again, I live in the country where Wagga Wagga is a thing...
01:51:39 <fdelapena> I guess this prevents trademark claims ;)
01:52:38 <fdelapena> Wagga Wagga is in Australia
02:07:56 <EXetoC> djdave: I bet you moved there cus trains and stuff
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09:25:43 <Supercheese> Man, I am terrible at shovel knight
09:25:55 <Supercheese> died like twenty times on the first boss knight
09:28:56 <supermop> i want all of this stuff:
09:29:43 <supermop> espescially the hat which seems to have nothing to do with the monorail
09:31:17 <supermop> what is shovel knight, Supercheese ?
09:33:11 <Supercheese> I am incredibly bad at it, but the music is excellent
09:35:12 <Supercheese> I'll probably just download the soundtrack, I lack the patience to complete the game
09:44:28 <V453000> :D monorail accessories
09:45:19 <JezK> we killed our monorail because it was useless. are there any monorails in the world that are actually good?
09:47:17 <supermop> as in make money? yes
09:47:34 <Supercheese> efficient, definitely not
09:47:34 <__ln__> JezK: the one in disneyland?
09:47:50 <Supercheese> convenient? perhaps
09:47:55 <supermop> idk are there any trains in the world that are good JezK ?
09:48:25 <supermop> what do you mean by efficient?
09:49:34 <JezK> well i've used lots of great train systems that get me places i want to go, quickly (some not so quickly). i don't know of any monorail systems that do that, but i am inexperienced in the ways of monorails
09:50:43 <Supercheese> well, the monorails I am aware of have a captive audience (Disney, Vegas, Seattle) so they are indeed the most convenient, but that's because there are few or no alternatives
09:50:49 <planetmaker> JezK, yes, they exist
09:51:29 <JezK> i just assumed they were all useless novelty systems like the sydney one
09:52:11 <planetmaker> it's 114 years old now :)
09:52:15 <JezK> oh i was in osaka but didn't see the monorail
09:52:19 <supermop> before Chongqing, Osaka was probably the most 'conventionally successful'
09:52:33 <supermop> in terms of being a heavily used piece of transit
09:53:03 <supermop> its really just a question of situation
09:53:29 <supermop> if you build a monorail for a use that is better suited to a train or bus, of course it will not be ideal
09:53:48 <supermop> but there are certain niche cases where it is the best option
09:54:59 <supermop> and if you build a monorail for a use that does not warrant any rapid transit, of course it will fail
09:55:49 <JezK> our one was very slow, expensive and didn't go anywhere people wanted to go that they couldn't get to easier by other means
09:56:03 <JezK> that german one looks good
09:56:37 <JezK> i think i recall seeing it in a film
09:57:52 <supermop> it's been it at east one film that i know of
09:58:34 <supermop> but yeah, if you build any type of transit system you need to provide a reason to use it
09:59:22 <supermop> if none exists, you can plan new development around the line, or use it to relieve congestion on an existing system
09:59:54 <supermop> but if you just build it and let it be it is going to fail
10:01:18 <supermop> most dismantled monorails were built as novelty rides for an expo or park etc, and closed once the novelty wore off
10:02:56 <supermop> Osaka is missing out on the monorail hat game
10:03:12 <supermop> no online store on the osaka monorail website
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12:52:09 <swirrel> is there a grf that enables tunnel crossing or is that only possible by cheatmode?
12:53:05 <Eddi|zuHause> if it's already a cheat, why would it be available as a non-cheat?
12:53:49 <Eddi|zuHause> "i know murder is a crime. is there a way i can murder without it being a crime?"
12:55:23 <swirrel> so it could be enabled in multiplayer without giving players the option to use the other cheats
12:55:32 <swirrel> you don't make a lot of sense
12:55:36 <swirrel> but nice eristic dialectic
12:55:43 <swirrel> and a bit of ignorance over what i want to achieve
12:55:54 <swirrel> next please one that involves nazi germany
12:56:14 <Eddi|zuHause> as a german, i am conditioned to avoid those :p
12:56:26 <swirrel> ich als deutscher habe viel spass dran
12:56:39 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, you can enable cheats in multiplayer, if you enable them in single player, and then load that game in multiplayer
12:56:46 <swirrel> but you see my point now, right? i want to use tunnelcrossings in multiplayer
12:56:54 <swirrel> it would be nice for the reddit servers, especially s2
12:57:08 <swirrel> and that would preventplayers from using them?
12:57:13 <swirrel> but keep the cross flag on?
12:57:16 <swirrel> that would be a nice workaround
12:57:21 <Eddi|zuHause> but there is no guarantee that it won't desync
12:57:53 <Eddi|zuHause> as that is largely untested, i presume
12:58:38 <swirrel> hmmm i'll try it and google if there might be a patch (meh that wouldn't be a solution anyway^^)
13:12:37 <planetmaker> swirrel, the reddit server 2 uses anyway a patched client and server. So there's no point in not patching...
13:13:15 <planetmaker> but you lost your argument... you invoked godwin's law.
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13:16:08 <swirrel> no you don't lose by arbitrary arguments
13:16:24 <swirrel> afterwards he was helpful
13:16:32 <swirrel> so i was absolutely successful with my line of argumentation
13:16:36 <swirrel> to get and convey what i want
13:17:07 <swirrel> and you ought to know that his eristic dialectic was about equivalent to godwin's law
13:18:25 <Eddi|zuHause> you know that godwins law is not actually a law. more like an observation
13:18:55 <Eddi|zuHause> there are probably plenty of examples that violate the "law"
13:19:02 <swirrel> the argument is called godwin's law, beside it being an observation by godwin
13:19:52 <swirrel> a redherring isn't a fish either
13:20:04 <swirrel> and a circlejerk isn't a group of people wanking each other off
13:20:37 <Eddi|zuHause> tbh, i never figured out the meaning of either of those words
13:21:44 <swirrel> the latter is circular logic in a group and a red herring is a smoke screen "nebelkerze" something like that
13:21:53 <swirrel> schopenhauer wrote a good book on dialectic if it's interests anyone
13:22:57 <swirrel> and in nature herrings aren't red, at least not on the outside
13:24:01 <Eddi|zuHause> they're not? why are they covered in red then when i open the can? :p
13:24:31 <swirrel> it's not the tomato sauce
13:24:38 <swirrel> it's that it may contain peanuts
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13:40:04 <planetmaker> swirrel, you're drawing wrong conclusions. It definitely was not your somewhat pathetic attitude which triggered Eddi|zuHause to be helpful. Rather in spite of and that you explained your point a bit more along the way
13:40:36 <planetmaker> so please watch your manners in this channel. I find it borderline. No need to insult people here, ok?
13:41:30 <planetmaker> I'm not angry. I'm amazed or astonished
13:42:55 <swirrel> and i didn't insult people, only you did that btw
13:43:00 <swirrel> that's why i assumed you are angry
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14:40:22 <V453000> I think tunnel crossings work in multiplayer, we tried
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15:11:20 <peter1138> i mean, once enabled
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15:52:23 <V453000> without desyncs is the key part :P
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17:01:42 <andythenorth> this looks awesome
17:01:58 <andythenorth> we should convert the game to that
17:02:02 <andythenorth> but maybe using voxels
17:03:03 <planetmaker> yes yes. We should start now :)
17:04:00 <andythenorth> I would draw textures all day for pasting onto cubes
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17:07:31 <peter1138> Tunnel entrances are a bit naff.
17:08:26 <andythenorth> hovercraft is worse :D
17:08:48 <Eddi|zuHause> everything about this screenshot is terrible...
17:09:29 <peter1138> Seems to be sinking...
17:09:42 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: the palette is nice, no?
17:10:13 <Eddi|zuHause> everything about this screenshot is terrible...
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17:26:04 <Alberth> looks like blocky to me, except my blocky was about industries :)
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20:11:19 <frosch123> moving to cambridge?
20:15:43 * andythenorth is stuck in tedious over-thinking phase of set design :(
20:15:55 <andythenorth> should I just remove the mining trucks?
20:16:43 <frosch123> different graphics for light and heavy cargo is good :)
20:16:50 <frosch123> but you can also change them on refit ofc
20:17:01 <frosch123> though i thought refits are unpopular :p
20:22:14 <andythenorth> somehow RVs are harder to design a set for than trains :P
20:22:27 <andythenorth> trains, you add a small number of engines matching different niches
20:23:00 <andythenorth> and in Iron Horse, adding more (and more) wagon types doesn’t seem to have any downsides
20:23:37 <andythenorth> I’m only adding the mining trucks because I think they’re cool
20:23:40 <andythenorth> no gameplay purpose
20:23:51 <andythenorth> I think that’s the problem, they are crippled in gameplay
20:24:57 <frosch123> just multiply their capacity by 10
20:25:20 <frosch123> rv need very little space, so you could try to make that a selling point over trains
20:26:19 <andythenorth> the problem is they’re slow
20:26:25 <andythenorth> so on any non-dedicated route
20:26:32 <andythenorth> they block all other trucks
20:26:39 <frosch123> ah, right, you refuse to build feeders
20:26:51 <frosch123> well, rv are for case where you station walk :p
20:26:53 <andythenorth> but I don’t isolate road networks
20:26:58 <andythenorth> but ~all the trucks in Road Hog are articulated
20:27:13 <andythenorth> so the mining trucks reduce network speed
20:27:37 <andythenorth> so I could give them unrealistic top speed
20:28:07 <fdelapena> bitcoin mining trucks should reduce cpu speed
20:28:14 <frosch123> well, "slow+high capacity" and "fast+low capacity" are normal things
20:28:41 <frosch123> if you make all vehicles the same, you remove the purpose for all of them
20:28:58 <andythenorth> then it’s just about graphics
20:29:09 <andythenorth> in some ways, a lot of Iron Horse works that way
20:29:19 <andythenorth> there are two freight wagon speeds, and matched engines
20:29:21 <frosch123> sounds like regearing :p
20:29:31 <andythenorth> so you just choose the wagons that look nice for your cargo
20:29:35 <frosch123> one vehicle, different graphics for cargos, and subtypes for fast/slow :p
20:29:56 <andythenorth> this conversation probably ends up at ‘roadtypes’ :P
20:31:34 <andythenorth> let’s shortcut :D
20:31:39 <andythenorth> can haz roadtypes?
20:32:08 <frosch123> we need no roadtypes, we only need to allow colouring every tile and vehicle individually
20:36:29 <andythenorth> well I could cheat the speed
20:36:36 <andythenorth> irl it’s 41mph for this one
20:36:47 <andythenorth> currently in-game it’s 50mph
20:36:58 <andythenorth> but Iron Horse cheats freight speeds by up to 100%
20:37:15 <andythenorth> also I’ve cheated the capacity _down_ below RL on that truck, for some reason :P
20:39:38 <andythenorth> eh seriously over-thinking it
20:39:59 <andythenorth> the other trucks are already 10 or 20mph above any legal limit :P
20:40:19 <andythenorth> the top-end has to be faked, so that there can be progression in mid-game
20:47:20 <andythenorth> think that solves it
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21:48:03 <frosch123> dropsgek uses @ :) so
21:49:32 <fdelapena> humans are not fast with this :D
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