IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-06-08
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00:29:28 *** kais58 is now known as kais58|AFK
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08:36:49 <supermop> whoa i 'won' this game that i started last night
08:39:33 <Supercheese> but... the only winning move is not to play! ;)
08:49:32 <supermop> i came back from hours of being away
08:49:56 <supermop> and the newspaper thing was up with me as the top of the table in 2050
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09:18:17 <supermop> now people are chatting about how jfk was a nazi so i think ill go ahead and leave the game
09:34:49 <V453000> playing on dumb servers is not the best idea :P
09:37:09 <Supercheese> the server isn't dumb, but rather the clientele
09:37:23 <Supercheese> errr, present company excepted
09:41:21 <V453000> the clientele is what make the server :)
10:12:57 <V453000> I added more wood types and got some errors in the renders, but that should be easy to solve; I should have time for it tomorrow
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13:18:50 <argoneus> good morning train amigos
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14:10:56 <Flygon> <Flygon> I still find it incredible that VR's D-class locos (the 1902 ones) were able to hit 120km/h...
14:10:56 <Flygon> <Flygon> They go faster than N-classes are suppose to today @_@
14:16:42 <Hiddenfunstuff> what book ar you reading?
14:20:16 <Flygon> Locomotives of Australia
14:20:22 <Flygon> Sooo many photos that're impossible to find online
14:20:31 <Flygon> And so much information that's impossible to find online
14:20:48 <Flygon> If anyone's doing an Australian loco and can't find info, I'm happy to help
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17:42:30 <Elec_A> Hello, I have a question. Why openttd graphics do not improve ?
17:42:52 <Hiddenfunstuff> there is no need for it?
17:43:21 <Hiddenfunstuff> and the graphics would become a issue in longer games with couple thousand trains..
17:43:31 <planetmaker> Hello, I have an answer: they're good or no-one made them such that you consider them better as before. Maybe you give it a shot yourself? It's all open source and free and tools available, too
17:43:34 <Hiddenfunstuff> *cough* co-op games *cough*
17:43:57 <planetmaker> Hiddenfunstuff, the graphics would not become an issue really... a bit more memory, but that works fine
17:44:30 <planetmaker> Elec_A, also it makes me wonder: which graphics *do* you use? There's 3 base sets and zillions of NewGRFs. So maybe you just do not use those which suit you better
17:45:06 <Hiddenfunstuff> the very default graphics, are bad tbh
17:45:07 <Elec_A> planetmaker: yes , you are right. as i know it is not possible to use as many as you want from NewGRFs graphics.
17:45:18 <Hiddenfunstuff> but the OpenGFX or whatever it is called.. is good
17:45:33 <planetmaker> Hiddenfunstuff, but graphics are no problem for coop games. The crucial point for those large games is the game logic which scales badly , not graphics
17:45:51 <Elec_A> it seems several newgrf conflict with each other.
17:46:09 <planetmaker> Elec_A, *that* was not what I was asking. And more NewGRFs don't give you better graphics, just more concurrent graphics styles, thus overall worse look
17:46:23 <planetmaker> and of course, NewGRFs do conflict. But that's not an issue either
17:47:26 <Hiddenfunstuff> Well i happened to pop in one coop game and boy it killed my machine if you werent all the way zoomed in
17:47:48 <planetmaker> Hiddenfunstuff, yes, but that's not a graphics issue but a CPU issue. Thus game logic
17:48:00 <Elec_A> planetmaker: I say if openttd graphics were like simcity4 (buildings , cars, roads , trees , ...). there won't be any other game that can compete Openttd .
17:48:52 <Elec_A> It would be the best game ever developed.
17:49:14 <planetmaker> Elec_A, so what's your point? What base set do you play with? Which NewGRF? Did you try zBase as base set? Did you ever use Pota-Ghat, Pineapple trains, rawr, egrvts2 as NewGRFs?
17:49:15 <Elec_A> However, Openttd is not just a game :)
17:49:32 <Elec_A> planetmaker: no , i have not tried them
17:49:34 <planetmaker> are you aware of the different styles of graphics available?
17:50:17 <Elec_A> planetmaker: sure, thank you . are there any wikis available online for them ?
17:50:19 <planetmaker> defaults for OpenTTD probably won't change. But there's others, and you just need to pick the ones you like
17:50:43 <planetmaker> they might come with a readme, readable from ingame? And / or link you to their online documentation
17:50:51 <planetmaker> that's what those buttons ingame are for :P
17:51:39 <Elec_A> planetmaker: please suggest some right now. I think i will confuse if I want to try myself.
17:52:55 <planetmaker> and those which I listed, I can recommend them all
17:53:04 <planetmaker> they don't conflict and they touch different areas
17:53:36 <Elec_A> planetmaker: thank you ! :)
17:56:19 <planetmaker> Elec_A, oh, search for yeti instead of rawr :)
17:56:37 <Elec_A> planetmaker: Ok thanks again :)
17:58:02 <Elec_A> planetmaker: there are two results for yeti , one is about 250 kb , and the other is about 180 Mb , which one is the one you mean ?
18:01:35 <Taede> the 180mb one would be my guesss
18:01:43 <Taede> hi-res gfx tend to take up space
18:02:31 <Elec_A> Taede: Ok, I'll get that
18:03:27 <Alberth> and people wonder why their computer gets so slow :p
18:04:17 <Elec_A> Alberth: what do you mean ?
18:05:35 <Alberth> you're using 720 times as much data to display mostly the same information
18:05:54 <Alberth> so your computer does 720 times as much work
18:06:26 <planetmaker> Elec_A, do not download manually. Use ingame content download
18:06:42 <planetmaker> each of those I listed is conveniently available
18:06:55 <Alberth> since computer speed is finite, you pay for that somewhere else
18:07:17 <Elec_A> Alberth: oh yes, but if that does not cause any problem to game. I prefer to enjoy the game with higher graphics.
18:10:27 <Elec_A> Alberth: and I think this is nothing for a core i7 CPU. ;)
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18:11:45 <Alberth> being optimistic is always good
18:12:30 <Alberth> but it's very possible to hit the CPU limit with OpenTTD, even with original graphics
18:13:26 <Elec_A> really ?! No way ! It seems impossible .
18:14:48 <Alberth> Elec_A: graphics do take time, but it also has to compute where to display those graphics :)
18:15:11 <Alberth> hello, absolute terkhen
18:16:08 <|Terkhen|> my holiday absence must have made the bouncer forget about me
18:16:14 <Celestar> you can run into the CPU limit without even with the null renderer :D
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18:19:01 <Terkhen> absolutism has never been my thing, yes :P
18:19:25 <Alberth> how are you, busy with RL ?
18:19:51 <Terkhen> yes, doing too many things at once, as usual :)
18:21:00 <Alberth> there is too much fun stuff to look into, in the world
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18:57:18 <Alberth> FS#6314 counts as NML bug?
18:57:47 <frosch123> the behaviour? certainly not
18:58:13 <frosch123> /!!Warning (109): Offset 22: Property 27 is previously defined at offset 7. <- likely a bug in the grf source, which nml does not complain about
18:58:31 <frosch123> /!!Warning (113): All random options have the same ID. <- no error at all, but consequence of stupid newgrf specs
18:58:50 <frosch123> /!!Warning (132): Offset 5: Parameter 8D out of valid range for variable 60. <- no error, but unmaintained nforenum
18:59:08 <frosch123> /!!Error (85): This livery override action 3 does not follow a standard action 3. <- no idea, would have to look at the source :p
18:59:30 <frosch123> but all of that is definitely unrelated the the loading issue
18:59:56 <frosch123> possibly the loading_speed is set to zero or something silly :p
19:06:14 <Eddi|zuHause> loading_speed defaults to 0 for new vehicles
19:06:33 <Eddi|zuHause> so if you don't set it manually, it won't load anything
19:06:53 <Eddi|zuHause> the default values might need reviewing at some point
19:08:35 <Alberth> nml shouldn't allow 0, imho
19:09:38 <Alberth> if you override, and return a wrong value, ok. But a literal 0 can't be right ever
19:09:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: it shouldn't be NML's job, though. it should be in the GRF-Specs
19:10:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. it should be openttd's job
19:10:50 <Alberth> as openttd follows grfspecs
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20:41:52 <Alberth> forever a source of fun :p
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20:46:17 <andythenorth> I have a 512x256 map
20:46:34 <andythenorth> FIRS has only built 1 or so of each major processing industry
20:46:42 <andythenorth> and the primaries are nicely distributed
20:47:15 <andythenorth> the whole map will end up inter-connected
20:47:27 <andythenorth> Busy Bee has mostly made good goal choices so far
20:47:41 <andythenorth> although it is low-balling some goals
20:47:51 <andythenorth> 200 tonnes of coal is a single trainload :P
20:48:21 <andythenorth> but 4,500 bags of mail to a tiny town seems excessive
20:48:36 <andythenorth> that’s an English thousands-comma, not a decimal separator :P
20:50:55 <Alberth> it likes loads of mail and pax :p
20:51:21 <Alberth> I have been wondering whether to add a restriction for them
20:58:11 <andythenorth> are they just easily found?
20:58:14 <andythenorth> compared to industries?
21:04:34 <andythenorth> when new road vehicles arrive
21:04:46 <andythenorth> do you just auto-replace all instances of the previous model?
21:06:02 <Alberth> BB first selects cargo randomly, ease of finding has no influence (unless other cargoes fail)
21:06:35 <Alberth> mostly I replace only when needed
21:07:13 <Alberth> which is either when I need a little more power, or when models become unavailable
21:07:15 <andythenorth> it seems really boring to just upgrade all
21:07:43 <andythenorth> I don’t upgrade all planes or trains or boats
21:07:43 <Alberth> I can't be bothered to setup groups and routes
21:08:00 <andythenorth> it’s one of the things that makes RVs relatively bland I think
21:08:11 <Alberth> I hardly play with RV
21:08:30 <Alberth> only when it's ridiculously near by
21:09:54 <andythenorth> I am missing HEQS in this game
21:10:04 <andythenorth> trucks are more useful when they are ~100t
21:10:16 <andythenorth> Road Hog has few of those, at least in the Brit roster
21:17:49 <V453000> I like how all of blender controls have to be completely different to any other software I have used :D
21:21:22 <frosch123> what colour do they have?
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21:47:17 <andythenorth> anyone want to make the FIRS production window a parameter? o_O
21:47:25 * andythenorth is all coded-out on FIRS right now :P
21:47:49 <andythenorth> it’s a bit of action 14, and changing a switch
21:48:04 <andythenorth> and switching strings appropriately in industry window
21:52:29 <andythenorth> this is for secondary production though
21:52:37 <andythenorth> I want a 90 day window
21:52:43 <andythenorth> I am hauling about 400 tiles
21:52:57 <andythenorth> this is not Just In Time delivery :P
22:31:37 <andythenorth> what’s the maximum range for routing trains?
22:33:44 <frosch123> what's a maximum range?
22:33:49 <frosch123> only planes have a maximum range
22:36:55 <andythenorth> got some trains won’t route to far away stations
22:37:42 <andythenorth> they indicate the next destination correctly, but they’re stuck going in and out of depots
22:37:47 <andythenorth> probably signals
22:37:54 <frosch123> do they need to reverse in stations?
22:37:56 <andythenorth> maybe a bad one way somewhere
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