IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-05-10
⏴ go to previous day
00:45:41 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
00:45:41 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
01:23:50 *** TartarusMkII has joined #openttd
01:24:34 <TartarusMkII> Hey again, just want to ask again: Can anyone show me any nice SS's of cool road interchanges that are functional? I don't really understand how to use one way roads properly.
01:24:48 <TartarusMkII> I've seen someone make a clover leaf interchange, but i can't figure out how to make one that is actually helpful in any way. lol
01:25:14 <TartarusMkII> I want something that looks nice sure, but also actually useful
02:34:01 *** Ketsuban has joined #openttd
02:48:13 *** Bluelight has joined #openttd
02:48:28 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
02:56:06 *** Bluelight has joined #openttd
03:03:41 <TartarusMkII> Hey again, just want to ask again: Can anyone show me any nice SS's of cool road interchanges that are functional? I don't really understand how to use one way roads properly.
03:03:41 <TartarusMkII> I've seen someone make a clover leaf interchange, but i can't figure out how to make one that is actually helpful in any way. lol
03:03:41 <TartarusMkII> I want something that looks nice sure, but also actually useful
03:11:25 <Eddi|zuHause> clover leaf junctions aren't all that useful. they solve problems that do not actually occur in this game
03:11:53 <TartarusMkII> right, I did not think so.
03:12:00 <TartarusMkII> what about one-way roads?
03:12:31 <Supercheese> roads generally never have any issues, just slap some down and vehicles are always fine
03:12:44 <Supercheese> the only issues are when you set full load orders and vehicles back up at stations waiting
03:13:57 <Eddi|zuHause> one way roads don't do a lot in this game either, except making overtaking easier by not having opposing traffic. there is no dividing high traffic into lanes or stuff
03:14:56 <TartarusMkII> I was hoping to do anything fancy with roads like I can (sort of) with rail
03:15:24 <Eddi|zuHause> roads are far more limited in that sense
03:47:46 *** supermop has joined #openttd
05:12:03 <Flygon> I'd love rail-style roads
05:21:26 <TartarusMkII> Well what are trams? are they vanilla? I;ve never ran across them in my HUD
05:31:52 <Supercheese> there are indeed no trams in vanilla
05:58:29 <ST2> trains, trucks, buses, ships and so on... are cheating too! well, by kamnet's ideas ^^
05:59:02 <ST2> damn, forgot the cheating planes :S
05:59:03 <kamnet> No, just trams. They were never meant to be. Its like turning off inflation or disabling breakdowns. All cheating.
06:00:28 <ST2> well, that's a nice excuse when you can't make more profit that a competitor... but ok. we're fine :P
06:06:47 <TartarusMkII> how are trams cheaty? =o
06:06:49 <ST2> btw kamnet, about empty servers (or non empty ones): always hard to check. but before start recommending servers to new players, check the servers reliability 1st - and ofc, the community (it matters only on numbers and efforts ppl do to keep them running)
06:07:10 <kamnet> I recommended a server to somebody?
06:09:21 <kamnet> Only server communities I'm aware of are openttd coop, reddit, and novopolis. I played on reddit once. That's about all I know about 'em.
06:10:27 <ST2> what about the community that holds 30% of the players now?
06:10:46 <ST2> well, how can you miss that?
06:11:47 <ST2> unless you're being tendentious, and that was my thoughts at the time
06:12:02 <ST2> hopefully, won't happen again :)
06:15:03 <ST2> I guess kamnet is googling a bunch now :P
06:17:06 <ST2> because missing "n-ice" and "btpro" communities means kamnet doesn't play online OpenTTD and therefore his opinions worth as that xD
06:18:36 <ST2> thx for your silence kamnet ;)
06:19:12 <kamnet> Sorry I was called away. GF wanted some ice cream :D
06:19:57 <kamnet> Yeah I'm not an online player at all. I don't typically have a lot of time, plus I'm spoiled by patchpacks and as many newgrfs as I can cram in the game
06:21:17 <ST2> anyway, a hint: next time before suggest gamepark or reddit, inform yourself about the existent OpenTTD communities
06:22:43 <ST2> people work on provide games to ttd players and dnt need tendentious suggestions
06:25:14 <kamnet> I see btpro and n-ice advertised once in awhile, just doesn't come to first in mind simply because I'm not part of those communities. I am on reddit, and typically I mention coop since enough of the devs mention it pretty frequently
06:25:27 <kamnet> No attempting to sligt any other groups.
06:26:33 <ST2> well, at least keep tunned about OpenTTD communities - some come and go
06:27:17 <kamnet> I wasn't evne aware that there was a presence on twitch until last week. A spot I've only visited once as well LOL
06:28:01 <ST2> some players make twitch casts
06:28:16 <ST2> but none community do it as a basis
06:28:42 <ST2> at least for what I know ^^
06:29:05 <supermop> i want ice cream kamnet
06:29:12 <kamnet> I don't know nothing. Just ask Pikka
06:29:31 <kamnet> I got a freezer full, supermop. Help yerself
06:30:01 *** Ketsuban has joined #openttd
06:30:44 <ST2> I guess supermop was asking for the part where beers are cooling - but that's none of my business :P
06:37:52 <supermop> so my 3d printed coffee grinder bracket works, but is too wobbly
06:38:24 <supermop> dont know why i thought two points of attachment would be enough
06:39:28 <supermop> ever used maxwell V453000 ?
07:22:20 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
07:27:59 <Supercheese> well what do you know, an andy
07:29:21 <kamnet> Any needs help. He needs 64 new industries to put into FIRS Full.
07:32:24 <kamnet> You'll never fill it. You'll be bored silly just hitting 45
07:33:13 <andythenorth> it would be horrible
07:33:25 <andythenorth> Pikka what larks?
07:39:09 <kamnet> We could fill all 77 with restaurant chains
07:39:10 <andythenorth> are places you can go with people when you wish to eat
07:40:28 <andythenorth> I should rename Iron Horse
07:40:37 <andythenorth> then it would get more downloads
07:40:48 <andythenorth> everybody hates Iron Horse
07:41:06 <andythenorth> it’s not foamer-ish enough I guess
07:42:12 <andythenorth> it’s a “known fact” that players hate ships
07:42:26 <andythenorth> yet the ships grfs are just about the most popular thing since free sliced bread
07:50:07 *** Cybertinus has joined #openttd
08:00:24 <supermop> maybe they hate default ships?
08:03:10 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
08:20:28 *** Progman has joined #openttd
08:33:31 <Pikka> ships are difficult to make interesting, they have so few properties to differentiate. And they have no network limits - you can pile in as many ships to a route as you need.
08:42:24 <kamnet> If we can just get them faster than 127 kph you could have A LOT of fun with shis
08:44:53 <TartarusMkII> Are helicopters useful?
08:45:00 <TartarusMkII> I realize that with my settings, airports are very expensive to run
08:45:05 <TartarusMkII> and trains are expensve to run =c
08:45:26 <TartarusMkII> idk how to make it worth it to run a small airport (small because it's before you'd have more profitable planes I guess?
08:48:57 <kamnet> I need to research useful helicopters
08:49:31 <kamnet> I just recently posted some useful VTOLs
08:50:05 <Pikka> I somehow don't think very fast boats will be much more interesting than slow ones... and commercial hydrofoils run much slower than 127 km/h ;)
08:53:56 <kamnet> VTOLs: I found 20 that I thought were useful enough to put in the game (min 4 passengers or 1 ton of cargo capacity), and half of them can move over a dozen people.
08:54:24 <Supercheese> I once tried to make the Fairey Rotodyne
08:54:31 <Supercheese> sprites turned out shit though
08:54:56 <Pikka> minimum useful capacity for an aircraft in OpenTTD is probably about 30-50, imo.
08:58:30 <andythenorth> dibble dibble dibble
09:00:14 <andythenorth> seems to only be used by forest
09:01:29 <Pikka> only free-form-land multi-climate industry?
09:14:11 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
09:14:11 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
09:18:22 <andythenorth> ugly FIRS fruit plantation
09:26:15 <TartarusMkII> so I am curious, what if the benefit of Trams?
09:26:18 <TartarusMkII> I am experimenting with the,
09:26:38 <TartarusMkII> but they seem a bit more expensive than busses in most cases, and also require the rail line to be built
09:26:48 <andythenorth> there are no benefits
09:27:35 <TartarusMkII> Then why have them? =o I can understand that the coolness comes at a premium, but they almost seem pointless in that sense (unless I totally misunderstand which I think I am)
09:29:14 <andythenorth> what are the benefits to buses?
09:29:25 <Pikka> what advantages or disadvantages trams have depends on the newgrf
09:29:35 <Pikka> there are no default trams, so there's no default answer :)
09:29:45 <andythenorth> there’s no design to the game
09:30:02 <andythenorth> lack of any design puzzles people :)
09:30:12 <andythenorth> especially the logically-minded people who like train games
09:30:36 * andythenorth ponders a Dwarf Fortress GS
09:31:34 *** Pensacola has joined #openttd
09:32:34 * andythenorth has never played Dwarf Fortress, but why would that stop me?
09:34:44 <TartarusMkII> but why build the tram lines over roads instead of just making roads and cars lol
09:35:26 <Alberth> the reason is different for everybody
09:35:51 <Alberth> if you don't want trams, don't use them
09:36:03 <TartarusMkII> =c I am not complaining, I am asking for suggestions
09:36:27 <V453000> functionality too :) trams often have more capacity, and combining them with oneway traffic is great too
09:36:28 <Supercheese> trams can have higher passenger capacities
09:36:34 <Supercheese> also HEQS is just kewl
09:36:39 <Supercheese> not for pax though
09:36:42 <andythenorth> no, HEQS is an abomination
09:36:48 <V453000> not to mention controlling them by tracks which can differ from roads
09:36:52 <TartarusMkII> How do you mean about combining them with one way traffic?
09:36:54 <andythenorth> HEQS is so many kinds of wrong
09:37:03 <TartarusMkII> WHats wrong with HEQS, andy?
09:37:06 <V453000> cars obey 1-way roads, trams dont have to
09:37:13 <andythenorth> the design is all wrong
09:37:17 <andythenorth> the sprites are bad
09:37:23 <andythenorth> and it’s written in nfo, hard to maintain
09:37:29 <andythenorth> not sure I can even compile it anymore
09:37:32 <Supercheese> well, the nfo thing is true enough
09:37:32 <Alberth> I had an idea for a GS, you 'buy' an industry, which basically means you get a large money drain on your hands, which you must fix by giving the industry work
09:37:47 <andythenorth> Alberth: that worked in Railroad Tycoon
09:37:56 <andythenorth> purchase cost, annual running cost
09:38:10 <andythenorth> how to calculate income though?
09:38:41 <TartarusMkII> How would you guys rate HEQS balance as far as cost of stuff relative to the base line?
09:39:04 <Supercheese> well, HEQS stuff is generally really cheap, but you can always adjust it by parameter
09:39:13 <andythenorth> I would rate it as ‘adjustable’ :D
09:39:14 <TartarusMkII> none? I'm sorry, I don't understand.
09:40:13 <Alberth> andythenorth: you can monitor transport from/to an industry afaik
09:41:55 <TartarusMkII> What is Heart of Darkness setting for FIRS? lol
09:42:20 <Alberth> it's a different economy
09:42:38 <Alberth> each economy gives different sets of industries with different cargoes
09:42:58 <Alberth> basic economies are good for learning FIRS
09:43:07 <TartarusMkII> Well I notice that there is a tropical and subarctic, so I'd think that they are not compatible with eachother- but Heart of Darkness? =o
09:43:09 <Supercheese> HoD has coffee and such and stuff
09:43:20 <TartarusMkII> oh so it's difficult?
09:43:27 <Alberth> HoD is aimed at 'exporting'
09:43:30 <Supercheese> it's, well, caffeinated
09:53:04 <andythenorth> Alberth: so award income based on cargo collected?
09:55:18 <andythenorth> cargo collecting is easy to grief :)
09:57:01 <Alberth> it's perhaps a bit like SV, but with the extra problem that postponing is going to cost money
09:58:23 <andythenorth> have to keep the plates spinning
10:02:05 <V453000> what have you guys invented again? :"P
10:03:08 <andythenorth> Alberth: do you ‘buy’ the industry?
10:03:09 <supermop> V453000: ever used maxwell?
10:03:14 <andythenorth> or do you get it assigned to you?
10:03:29 <V453000> I have heard the word but I dont even know what it is supermop
10:03:52 <Alberth> don't know, buy is perhaps better
10:03:57 <supermop> trying to use it on a trial know, don't have the hang of it yet
10:04:06 <supermop> alternative to v ray
10:04:10 <andythenorth> deliver to power stations :P
10:04:33 <V453000> cycles in blender seem great if you want something cheap
10:04:59 <andythenorth> when andythenorth was involved in CGI, we spent most of our time looking for *non* photorealism :P
10:05:06 <andythenorth> and not toon shaders either
10:05:19 <V453000> idk, I am kind of skeptical about importance of renderer
10:05:22 <supermop> i am pretty close to just subcontracting this out, im spending most of my time just trying to figure out what to use rather than modelling or rendering
10:05:33 <V453000> just grab one and learn it :) if it is any good, it will work fine
10:05:59 <V453000> as I said, for me Vray is key not just because of what nice image it spews out, but because of the extra functions
10:06:23 <Flygon> OpenTTD needs more dancing babies
10:06:23 <V453000> mental ray is great built-in in max/maya
10:06:29 <Flygon> That's my contribution ton the CGI discussion
10:06:30 <supermop> andythenorth: if i were still in school or running my own shop i would certtainly not go for photorealism, but my client thinks his potential investors and customers will want it
10:07:24 <supermop> idk im fine with the slightly too clean flamingo renders that im more or less already familiar with
10:07:32 <andythenorth> I frigging hate my use of mercurial
10:07:35 <andythenorth> my repo is fucked again
10:07:53 <supermop> im sure enough time and i could get something closer to realistic out of it
10:08:38 <andythenorth> it’s not safe in hg to do even trivial things like ‘hg up [previous rev]'
10:08:54 <andythenorth> I am way too stupid to use hg
10:09:21 <V453000> flamingo doesnt look too great to me, but if it works for you ... :)
10:10:07 <supermop> well for me it is free
10:10:15 <supermop> because i already own it
10:10:25 <supermop> thats the only advantage it has for me
10:11:06 <supermop> should have modelling this space in revit
10:11:32 * andythenorth brutally cleans the repo
10:11:40 <V453000> well, all the revit/cad-ish workflow is probably the future of archviz
10:11:48 <supermop> then i could easily just hand it off to a rendering subcontractor with a list of materials and let them render it all up
10:12:12 <supermop> as well as have a nice set of construction documents all ready to go for my portfolio
10:12:21 <TartarusMkII> I haven't gotten very fari nto the game yet- do things like rails, roads, and tram tracks change in appearance over tiem?
10:12:28 <supermop> instead of drawing those up in acad later
10:13:19 <supermop> you think i could source 3 interior renders for around $800 USD each?
10:14:49 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
10:15:42 <V453000> :d maxwell is cheap for sketchup
10:15:44 <TartarusMkII> errr, I think trams can overlap and stack on top of eachother at their stations? hm.
10:15:57 <V453000> go see if you can export your cads into sketchup :P
10:16:07 <andythenorth> road vehicles overlap and stack
10:16:51 <TartarusMkII> really? I thought they can't pass eachther at in-line statons
10:19:45 <TartarusMkII> Ah and I see most trams are slower than cars, that's cool
10:20:19 <TartarusMkII> oo, cute Forklift, hauls 2 crates of goods XD
10:20:53 * andythenorth won’t be adding that to Road Hog
10:21:04 <andythenorth> "all my regrets”
10:23:57 <Supercheese> forklift was for back when FIRS had a different supplies scheme
10:24:08 <TartarusMkII> how so? I'm very interested
10:29:23 <TartarusMkII> hm my AIs keep crashing..
10:43:34 <supermop> yeah i saw that re: sketchup V453000
10:43:51 <supermop> limited resolution though
10:50:43 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
10:54:10 <supermop> i could use single track tramway at times
10:56:55 <supermop> late trams running behind an on time tram are screwed
10:57:31 <supermop> because even if you have a loop station at end of line, and enough time there for it to catch up and pass the tram ahead,
10:58:12 <supermop> once they start following right on the tail of the tram ahead, they seem not to make the correct pathfinder decisions
10:59:05 <supermop> eg they go around the loop the same way as the tram in front, on the tail, rather than the opposite way which would allow them to pass in the station
10:59:50 <supermop> i'm only able to fix these cases by having the on time tram in front duck into a depot
11:00:11 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
11:00:27 <supermop> either tram termini or timetabled wait in depot would fix
11:16:26 *** oskari89 has joined #openttd
12:38:19 <planetmaker> anything I should take a look at which I missed in the last 2 weeks?
12:51:43 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
12:51:43 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
13:09:41 *** tokai|mdlx has joined #openttd
13:12:13 <blathijs> Heh, just finished packaging 1.5.0! :-p
13:32:06 *** Supercheese is now known as Guest4719
13:32:11 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
13:39:34 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
13:52:28 *** fkinglag has joined #openttd
14:01:12 <titch> hello. when i try to replace mass amounts of road vehicles, why is it that when the type of vehicle is the only one available it dosent come up to allow the replacement?
14:03:46 <Pikka> you can't replace a vehicle with itself. if you want vehicles to be rebuilt, search for autorenew in the game settings. doesn't it, frosch123 .
14:06:43 <titch> that has helped. thanks all :D
14:07:02 <titch> will it tell me if the vehicle is no longer in production for the autorenew?
14:10:29 *** Johnnei has joined #openttd
14:27:38 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
14:35:22 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd
14:59:48 *** LadyHawk has joined #openttd
15:29:08 <Johnnei> frosch123: Should I inform you when I double post on tickets?
15:29:31 <frosch123> no, i get notifications anyway
15:49:08 *** Suicyder has joined #openttd
15:57:03 *** oskari89 has joined #openttd
16:31:11 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd
16:43:26 <kamnet> Good morning to all. Happy Mother's Day for those who are celebrating.
16:58:34 *** roidal_ has joined #openttd
17:31:02 *** Ketsuban has joined #openttd
18:01:58 *** Progman has joined #openttd
18:32:13 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
18:46:40 <Alberth> oh noes, station ratings are global!
18:49:13 <andythenorth> I might make them apply to only FIRS stations
18:49:51 * andythenorth is just 203 varadic macros away from killing c-pre-processor in FIRS
18:50:01 <andythenorth> they are the 203 difficult ones of course :)
18:50:30 <Alberth> hopefully they share some structure :)
18:51:05 <Alberth> can you make station ratings specific to a newgrf?
18:51:06 <andythenorth> I think I’m possibly beyond TMWFTLB already on refactoring
18:51:22 <andythenorth> nah, station ratings are global AIUI
18:52:18 <Alberth> only for specific cargo could be fun :p
18:55:05 <andythenorth> patient passengers?
18:56:31 <andythenorth> looks like it is per cargo
18:57:02 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: refactoring is always negative on the "benefit" scale, if you count immediate effect on number of features
18:57:25 <Eddi|zuHause> you do refactoring for the long term effects
18:58:12 <andythenorth> it gets interesting when you can look in the crystal ball and think ‘this sprite layout probably won’t change in next 5 years’
18:58:32 <andythenorth> so does it matter if it uses new unified method, or old custom method
18:58:50 <Eddi|zuHause> if you know it won't change, there's no point in refactoring :p
18:59:23 <andythenorth> I shall add that comment at the top of my ‘list of TMWFTLB changes’
19:00:08 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but there's a point at "x% likelyhood it will change", where refactoring leads to benefits
19:00:47 <andythenorth> I think there’s a few more things I should do, then it’s done
19:01:41 <andythenorth> I already now have: most industries will single industry compile (for testing); cargo IDs no longer have to be interleaved; codebase is smaller; compile is faster
19:02:36 <andythenorth> also 4 common industry templates, which most of the 66 industries use
19:02:41 <andythenorth> instead of 66 industry templates
19:02:46 *** StudioPonozka has joined #openttd
19:03:26 <andythenorth> maybe I should do some features? o_O
19:10:26 * andythenorth wants to fix clustering
19:20:37 <andythenorth> I think it doesn’t scale correctly with map / number of industry types defined
19:23:40 <andythenorth> I can’t see any map scaling code at all for clusters
19:28:15 <Alberth> unless it's in mult/div
19:29:02 <andythenorth> they’re just magic numbers
19:29:13 <andythenorth> I’m sure pre-nml FIRS scaled by map size
19:29:22 <andythenorth> but I haven’t dug through the repo to find it
19:29:29 <andythenorth> about 2500 revs ago :)
19:30:18 <andythenorth> dunno, seems like there should be n clusters per 256x256 area
19:32:30 *** sleezio has joined #openttd
19:34:41 <sleezio> hello, haven't played(installed) openttd in about 2 yrs, just went to website and downloaded latest 1.5.0 version, but when trying to install, i see i'm missing libicu48, but i don't see a valid libicu48 for (x)ubuntu 14.04
19:38:41 <frosch123> if the ubuntu 14.04 package does not work on xubuntu (which would be silly), then try the generic linux binary
19:38:53 <sleezio> doh, nevermind, i somehow clicked the wrong download link
19:40:10 <andythenorth> what’s the objective with clustering?
19:40:22 * andythenorth has lost sight of the point :)
19:48:04 <frosch123> the ugly skyscrapers are from ttrs
19:54:12 <andythenorth> people like shiny
20:01:46 *** oskari89 has joined #openttd
20:49:31 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
21:03:51 <kamnet> So you betta treat her right.
21:45:41 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
23:30:04 *** DanMacK has joined #openttd
continue to next day ⏵
