IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-04-18
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01:52:37 <kamnet|AFK> Is it bedtime yet?
01:54:24 <Eddi|zuHause> probably 3 hours ago...
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02:09:25 <kamnet|AFK> I was taking a nap 3 hours ago
02:18:14 <Eddi|zuHause> that probably doesn't help with bedtime :p
02:22:22 <kamnet|AFK> No. Probably not. LOL
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08:13:09 <kamnet_> It's goign good. Sorry I was distracted, finishing up Daredevil
08:18:39 <kamnet_> Or, Episode 4 at least.
08:18:51 <kamnet_> I had enough violence for the night :D
08:32:43 <supermop> hmm all ive done today is get a new power button on my phone
08:36:00 <supermop> going to go buy some shapes for a snack, brb
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09:02:53 <Alberth> why doesn't anybody ever come up with the idea to change the newgrf with different introduction dates, rather than trying to change the daylength?
09:03:31 <V453000> because historical accuracy
09:03:32 <kamnet_> I was going to make that suggestion, but I didn't want to sound snarky.
09:03:54 <V453000> and to them it sounds like a simple task, just changing the date duh
09:05:08 <kamnet_> The reason I play with daylength is because it's ridiculous that it takes a week for a vehicle to travel from one side of a city to the other, or takes months for a single train run to go between locations.
09:05:56 <Alberth> I hardly ever look at the date, it's mostly irrelevant to me
09:06:32 <Alberth> just like how many zillions you have, it's not of interest at all
09:07:30 <Alberth> but ok, fair enough to want a saner date
09:07:53 <V453000> saner date ... not many people play a 100 year game anyway
09:08:08 <V453000> and 1920-2020 sounds quite sane to me
09:08:21 <kamnet_> Perhaps. Granted it's all meaningless anyhow. It's really not a date, its just ticks.
09:08:51 <V453000> if it defines which vehicles are available and many graphics like houses change over time, it is more than just ticks :)
09:09:53 <kamnet_> They're all just Dates, houses, vehicles, they're all just tchotchke.
09:10:51 <kamnet_> You could strip it down to ticks, and a sprite of a box that moves across a grid.
09:11:27 <kamnet_> Qbert, it's like openttd.
09:12:40 <andythenorth> Alberth: I was going to reply suggesting newgrf
09:12:48 <andythenorth> but then I realised I was being a dick :(
09:13:54 <kamnet_> *laughs* Strange how that happens, isn't it?
09:14:49 <andythenorth> “I *only* want to change x”
09:14:56 <andythenorth> and to prove that I only want to change x
09:15:04 <andythenorth> I shall enumerate all the things I do not want
09:15:12 <andythenorth> “I would like just a coffee please”
09:15:37 <andythenorth> “Not tea, nor juice, nor biscuits, cake, fruit, pies, crisps, water, beer, wine”
09:15:58 <Alberth> it helps in establishing how different people have different views
09:16:00 <andythenorth> “Nor sandwiches, peppers, salad, chips, beans, fajitas”
09:16:24 <kamnet_> Stop, you're making me hungry!
09:16:39 <kamnet_> Now I want all those things
09:16:48 <Alberth> kamnet_ just wants all food :) much easier to specify :p
09:17:25 * kamnet_ is a newfood hoarder. :D
09:17:25 <Supercheese> Goal: Deliver 0.2 tons of food to kamnet
09:17:44 <andythenorth> from a regression testing angle, it can be great to have a list of all that must be tested, and must not change
09:18:02 <Supercheese> well, he did want *all* the things
09:22:30 * andythenorth wonders about daylength?
09:24:08 <V453000> for making a game longer when you want it shorter
09:24:28 <kamnet_> Even if I like longer games? :-)
09:26:02 <andythenorth> _why_ do these people keep asking?
09:26:20 * andythenorth adopts puzzled whiny voice
09:27:13 <V453000> I think one reason is servers which run for a long time with huge maps and only a little amount of players at the same time
09:27:23 <V453000> so it is nicer to drag the game out for XXXX years
09:27:29 <V453000> which I think is reasonable use actually
09:27:35 <andythenorth> that sounds like a waste of life
09:27:40 <andythenorth> what’s wrong with pause?
09:28:03 <V453000> for example an international server with people from all aroudn the world, there is always at least 1 person online, but not many more
09:28:18 <kamnet_> I spent nearly four years playing the same game, and only getting 20 years in.
09:28:20 <V453000> so it never pauses and time runs fast for everybody cause they wake up and it is decades ahead
09:28:40 <V453000> when you play, normal speed is great
09:28:59 <V453000> when you are offline, it feels like most of the game has passed when you reconnect after ie 20 hours
09:30:31 <andythenorth> if they care enough
09:30:33 <andythenorth> they should make a newgrf
09:30:43 <andythenorth> and stop filling up the forums with multiple patches that don’t work
09:30:51 <andythenorth> it’s a pretty easy newgrf
09:31:17 <andythenorth> or they just turn on ‘vehicles never expire’
09:31:42 <andythenorth> daylength should be filed under ‘all these people are wrong'
09:38:17 <Supercheese> isn't there already a grf for the default vehicles or something?
09:38:27 <Supercheese> I recall delayed intro grf
09:38:52 <andythenorth> so the problem is solved?
09:38:56 <andythenorth> but still they keep asking?
09:39:06 <andythenorth> bad andythenorth
09:40:26 <Alberth> I have a cement plant and a lime kiln next to each other in FIRS 1.4.4, is that intended?
09:40:41 <andythenorth> does it seem good?
09:41:49 <Supercheese> well they both want coal and stone eh
09:42:14 <Alberth> yep, was about to look for some coal :)
09:42:29 <andythenorth> you won’t be able to deliver to both from one station :)
09:42:40 * andythenorth decides that placement is ‘intended'
09:42:48 <andythenorth> because…not going to change it
09:43:28 <andythenorth> you can muck about with last-hop feeders, but ugh
09:43:46 <Alberth> I'll build 2 stations, much easier
09:44:16 <andythenorth> maybe there is some complex conditional order you could use o_O
09:45:26 <Alberth> something like load full stone; unload if accepted; unload if accepted; done?
09:45:46 <Supercheese> no conditional orders for partial unloads
09:46:17 <Alberth> cdist wouldn't know what to do with it anyway :)
09:46:37 <andythenorth> industries like this can be a good case for ‘load any available’
09:46:46 <andythenorth> when there are coal mine, quarry etc near each other
09:47:10 <andythenorth> (including a station refit)
09:47:18 <andythenorth> best use I’ve found for that type station refit
09:49:09 <andythenorth> Alberth: I wonder if BB is 1.0.0?
09:49:10 <Alberth> sounds like a good case
09:49:17 <andythenorth> BB works for me in my recent game
09:50:26 <Alberth> #7521 fix would be nice, as would #7496
09:51:17 <Alberth> I quite like how it turned out
09:56:55 <andythenorth> think I’ll get a few more games out of it before I get bored
10:01:02 <Alberth> it makes a different game, there is much less incentive to make a huge transport network
10:01:41 <andythenorth> I find my network is more dispersed
10:01:46 <andythenorth> and less congested
10:02:18 <andythenorth> it’s not so good with FIRS Basic economies
10:02:30 <andythenorth> or rather, the economies are not so good with BB
10:03:04 <Alberth> had that problem with default tropical as well
10:03:23 <andythenorth> tried it with Full FIRS?
10:03:27 <Alberth> not sure what is wrong then
10:03:36 <Alberth> working on full FIRS :)
10:03:43 <andythenorth> it makes Full FIRS relaxing, instead of insane
10:04:01 <Alberth> but with NARS for the first time, huge running costs :p
10:04:51 * andythenorth hasn’t played NARS for ages
10:05:14 <Alberth> BB doesn't give you large money making goals
10:05:17 <Supercheese> Then you face the choice of old NARS and its BAD FEATURES or new NARS
10:06:15 <andythenorth> BAD FEATURES of course
10:07:09 <Supercheese> I'm actually using NARS 2.03 in my current game... because I went back and added in autorefit support
10:07:10 <Alberth> doodlebug seems buggy though
10:07:45 <Alberth> aren't the advertised running costs supposed to be the high running costs?
10:07:49 <Supercheese> so now I can have the NARS trains run around and carry freight on every leg of the journey
10:08:18 <Supercheese> I should probably post the override grf I made for that
10:08:21 <supermop> do non-americans generally understand "rimshot soundeffect" as a joke punctuation?
10:08:28 <supermop> seems very idiomatic
10:08:32 <Supercheese> I hear tell that lots of folks still like NARS 2.03
10:09:12 <supermop> hooray my conjecture is validated
10:09:21 <Supercheese> Hmm yeah, it hadn't occurred to me but I guess the "make a joke, drummer hits 2 snares and cymbal" trope may be exclusive to America
10:09:58 <andythenorth> supermop: “rimshot” is definitely something else here
10:09:58 <supermop> i think it may come exclusively from old american late night shows rather than even american stand up or vaudeville comedy
10:10:33 <andythenorth> don’t look up the UK English for rimshot
10:10:38 <supermop> where the talk show has a band to respond to the host's jokes
10:11:00 <supermop> portmanteau of rimjob and cumshot?
10:11:17 <supermop> efficient use of language if so
10:11:19 <Supercheese> one can only presume
10:11:37 <Supercheese> "In British English, boom boom is commonly used." wait what
10:12:02 <andythenorth> that is safe to look
10:12:13 <supermop> do they use kick bass instead of snare?
10:14:36 <supermop> patch game to remove time and date
10:16:37 <supermop> choose a decade at game start and never leave it
10:16:48 <andythenorth> eddi once made me a patch
10:16:54 <andythenorth> reset the year at year end
10:17:02 <andythenorth> second time, it rolled over
10:17:18 <andythenorth> except for odd vehicle availablility characteristics :D
10:17:20 <Supercheese> so yearlength rather than daylength?
10:17:27 <Supercheese> or well, multiyearlength
10:17:38 <Supercheese> or... I don't even know
10:18:10 <supermop> in that case id just as soon never see the month though
10:18:35 <andythenorth> but then you wouldn’t know why it’s snowing
10:18:41 <supermop> or display month as 'hour'
10:19:08 <supermop> and days as twos of minutes
10:19:24 <Supercheese> well TTD wouldn't even show you the day of the month unless the game was paused
10:19:35 <Supercheese> I'm not even sure OTTD has a setting for that
10:19:35 <supermop> really i want a way to timetable without any damn Februaries
10:20:45 <supermop> what about a sim city sort of thing whereby there is a fake time of day completely independent of displayed year or whatever
10:21:37 <Supercheese> we have a Nighttime OGFX, we could do day/night cycle
10:21:46 <andythenorth> if you could just finish FIRS recode by the time I’m back, fanks
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10:58:25 <Eddi|zuHause> <supermop> what about a sim city sort of thing whereby there is a fake time of day completely independent of displayed year or whatever <-- we've had this patch for like a decade now...
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11:27:21 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: is it still maintained?
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14:45:38 <Alberth> pretty much all cats like sun
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15:01:06 <frosch123> likely depends on how close they get to it
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15:24:18 <supermop> i want a random lloyds bank building generator
15:24:36 <supermop> wonder if that can be done in newgrf
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15:30:14 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i don't think any cat ever got much closer than 150 mio km
15:31:16 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: +/- 1% :)
15:32:00 <Eddi|zuHause> let's say 10% to be safe :)
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15:46:20 <andythenorth> wondering if I should automate FIRS incompatible industry checks
15:46:36 <andythenorth> look for mappings of accepted / provided cargo
15:48:24 <andythenorth> currently maintained manually
15:48:28 <andythenorth> and somewhat inconsistent
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16:05:21 <andythenorth> is ‘nearby_cluster’ mostly a tautology?
16:12:00 * andythenorth labels something ‘list_of_arbitrary_numbers'
16:12:09 <andythenorth> dunno what they do :)
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16:30:56 <andythenorth> 440 arable farms in 3 clusters
16:31:15 <andythenorth> how do I screenshot the minimap? :P
16:31:50 <V453000> just ctrl S like anything else doesnt work<
16:32:02 <V453000> other than normal printscreen into photoshop ofc :D
16:36:37 <andythenorth> I quite often want the whole minimap
16:36:48 <andythenorth> but I have a 13” laptop screen
16:36:58 <andythenorth> I guess I could put it into stupid retina resolution
16:39:13 <frosch123> in the past X servers used to supply a big virtual screen, and the real screen showed a part of it, with mouse-panning at the edges
16:39:21 <frosch123> i wonder though whether anyone ever used that
16:42:36 <andythenorth> VNC does similar
16:42:53 <andythenorth> when the only industry is arable farm
16:43:02 <andythenorth> the minimap looks neat
16:43:13 <andythenorth> two-thirds of the map is neatly spaced farms
16:43:17 <andythenorth> the rest is empty
16:43:52 <andythenorth> because it’s an island map, the clusters are restricted by island :P
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17:36:06 <andythenorth> arable farms on snow
17:37:20 <Alberth> it makes frozen vegetables?
17:50:03 <andythenorth> what’s the empty string I can return to text cbs?
17:50:08 <andythenorth> I thought I saved it
17:53:05 <andythenorth> usually that takes longer
18:00:05 <andythenorth> CB_RESULT_NO_TEXT is not defined
18:00:16 <andythenorth> silly andythenorth
18:00:30 <andythenorth> strings have to be strings
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18:14:00 <ohaz> Hey guys, how can I save my game on a dedicated server via rcon? using rcon <password> save <filename> just shows me "-Save the current game. Usage: 'save <filename>'
18:14:37 <Alberth> add quotes around the save <filename> part probably
18:14:49 <Alberth> at least that's a regular question/anser here :)
18:15:18 <ohaz> ah, that works, thanks :D
18:17:20 <andythenorth> Alberth: how’s your game? o_O
18:33:02 <andythenorth> I like the island in the north
18:33:46 <Alberth> re-organized the steel factory recently
18:34:42 * andythenorth should play NARS 2
18:34:56 <Alberth> long stone route is a bit of an accident
18:35:07 <Alberth> I had large parts of the route already
18:35:47 <andythenorth> how many goals have you completed?
18:35:59 * andythenorth wonders about an optional global goal: “Complete n goals”
18:36:02 <Alberth> no idea, 10-15 or so?
18:36:11 <andythenorth> maybe global goal is terrible idea
18:36:14 <andythenorth> not really the point
18:36:31 <Alberth> as you can see I am losing about 2/3 of my income to running costs
18:37:04 <andythenorth> pikka makes you work ;)
18:37:33 <Alberth> yeah, it's quite neatly balanced imho
18:37:52 <Alberth> although I only use the very cheapest engines
18:37:53 <andythenorth> road hog is much more generous :P
18:37:59 <andythenorth> 220k income, 33k cost
18:38:14 <Alberth> all the more expensive ones are not economical with BB
18:39:37 <Alberth> oh, it has an option "reduce vehicle costs" :)
18:40:54 <andythenorth> I find there’s far too many big steam engines in 1920s
18:41:17 <andythenorth> there are 6 introduced within ~15 years
18:41:32 <andythenorth> and the stats overlap rather
18:41:44 <andythenorth> same with diesels in 1960s
18:41:47 <Alberth> if you sort on running costs, it doesn't help much
18:41:49 <andythenorth> but pikka knows all this :)
18:42:57 <andythenorth> maybe we need daylength?
18:43:58 <Alberth> newgrf authors should refrain from giving the user too many engines, imho
18:44:19 <Alberth> but it's easy and tempting to add more engines
18:45:19 <andythenorth> having to draw them reduces the temptation :P
18:45:20 <Alberth> you could spread engines over the different climates for example
18:48:25 <Alberth> but likely, different users have different wishes here
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19:25:44 <kirjs_______> Hi, I'm trying to find 'autorenew' option, but advanced settings are gone
19:25:51 <kirjs_______> any idea where it could be now?
19:26:42 <kirjs_______> nevermind, got it
19:45:40 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27239 /trunk/src/lang (latin.txt lithuanian.txt) (2015-04-18 19:45:30 +0200 )
19:45:41 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:45:42 <DorpsGek> latin - 3 changes by Supercheese
19:45:43 <DorpsGek> lithuanian - 92 changes by Stabilitronas
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22:44:13 <Eddi|zuHause> you get dents in the rails.
22:44:47 <Eddi|zuHause> (i'm pretty sure we had this one before)
22:45:26 <Wolf01> sure, the post date is 2011
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22:59:32 <andythenorth> hmm 2880 bags of mail on this ship
23:01:56 <Eddi|zuHause> it's like sectors on a floppy
23:02:35 <Eddi|zuHause> remember when games came on like 15 floppy disks?
23:03:06 <Eddi|zuHause> now you go on steam, buy a game, and have it playable in like 2 minutes
23:03:56 <andythenorth> not on my mac :(
23:04:03 <andythenorth> more like, buy a game, wonder why it doesn’t work
23:06:46 <andythenorth> I guess that will be version 3
23:08:21 <Eddi|zuHause> so call it fish 4?
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