IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-04-15
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04:17:04 <Supercheese> Seemingly I should increment the savegame compatibility indicator
04:17:26 <Supercheese> short of trial and error, is there any way to determine when you should do so?
04:18:33 <Supercheese> also since the versioning is automatically controlled now I do not know what to set it to
04:42:51 <kamnet_> Yep, I just haven't had a chance to fix it yet, in the middle of podcasting. :D
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04:50:45 <kamnet_> Whee, podcast done. Now my computer has to settle down. Everything wanting ot crash
05:41:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: as a rule of thumb, whenever you shuffle around stuff so existing things on the map get changed
05:41:50 <Eddi|zuHause> basically... every time unless you have proven it to be compatible
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08:25:16 <planetmaker> Supercheese, re savegame compatibility: yes, possibly you should. It *should* stay savegame compatible, if you add new items (airports) only ever as the last item to the code
08:25:37 <Supercheese> Sadly I have added them in the middle, for ordering purposes
08:25:54 <Supercheese> I wanted to keep all Small airports together
08:26:00 <planetmaker> don't be much worried about it. Up the min_compatible_version to the current one and that's it
08:26:08 <Supercheese> that is what I did :)
08:26:24 <planetmaker> savegame compatibility for newgrfs is overrated :)
08:26:36 <planetmaker> it's extremely easy to break and one should never rely on it anyway
08:26:37 <kamnet> Supercheese, I just found out your new bare water tile isn't protecting the seaplane airport
08:27:09 <Supercheese> Ah, I seem to have neglected once again to test in trunk
08:27:45 <kamnet> Or maybe it is and I just missed a spot
08:28:05 <kamnet> To be honest, it blends in TOO well. I can't tell there's a tile there
08:28:12 <Supercheese> well, that's the idea ;)
08:28:26 <Supercheese> I do need to test in trunk though
08:30:35 <Supercheese> Hmm yes it fails in trunk
08:31:55 <kamnet> It seems to me that if you try to build it on straight water, it fails. If you dynamite it down to land and build on the land, then it works.
08:32:55 <Supercheese> Yes, I can confirm that
08:33:02 <Supercheese> I will need to make mention
08:33:36 <kamnet> What if you put some buoys on that tile? Or a flag
08:33:51 <Supercheese> at least the .gif I posted is still a valid scenario, although I should have shown the intermediate process
08:35:19 <Supercheese> ugh I may well need to make a new .gif
08:40:52 <kamnet> The bare water tile. Because it blends in with the surrounding water, I can't tell where I put my tile at.
08:41:34 <kamnet> Even if I make object tiles transparent, I still can't tell.
08:43:58 <kamnet> Also, the dock appears to have a water cycle hot pixel in it.
08:45:41 <Supercheese> yes, that is intentional
08:46:18 <Supercheese> splash effect against pillars
08:51:29 <kamnet> And apparently I can't build a dock next to the airport, either. It will flood it
08:52:24 <Supercheese> hmm yes, I am certain there are numerous consequences of applying workarounds to try and build on the ocean
08:52:54 <Supercheese> in the perfect world you could just plop the seaport down on water directly and be done with it
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09:21:51 <kamnet> Hm. I just notice there's a slight misalignment of the modern airport buildings in OpenGFX+ Airport Tiles
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09:23:22 <Gderckx> Hi there, can anyone tell me why Auto replace does not work for my 32Bpp vehicles?
09:24:04 <Gderckx> For example, I wanted to upgrade the 32BPP "TGV" to a 32BPP "Eurostar" but it just does not do the job, while other 8BPP vehicles do auto replace
09:24:54 <Gderckx> I really do not feel like manually replacing them
09:24:55 <Supercheese> what do you mean by "does not work"?
09:25:09 <Supercheese> Is the option available, but nothing happens when you choose it?
09:25:16 <Gderckx> the trains do go into the depots, but they are not replaced by the newer kind
09:25:17 <Supercheese> or do you seem to be missing the option entirely?
09:25:54 <Gderckx> I have the windows and I have ticked the option to replace them but they just seem to refuse it
09:26:01 <kamnet> Supercheese: yeah the object set.
09:26:26 <Gderckx> it does not function when I use the main screen for all trains and not for the single ones in the depot as well....
09:28:35 <Supercheese> are you going for replacement or renewal?
09:29:36 <Gderckx> I also wanted to change some 32Bpp wagons from the Pinapple set to the 32Bpp wagons from the normal set but nothing happened there as well/
09:29:50 <Gderckx> but my 8Bpp trams do auto replace (upgrade)
09:31:06 <Supercheese> hmm, no error messages pop up I assume, and you haven't disabled them
09:31:11 <Supercheese> the messages that is
09:33:15 <planetmaker> Gderckx, depots must be accessible and servicing enabled
09:33:47 <planetmaker> there is nothing which can make it work for one type of vehicle and not for another - other than "bad" route planning and orders
09:34:29 <Gderckx> what do you mean by "servicing enabled"?
09:34:38 <Gderckx> No error message showing up indeed
09:35:17 <planetmaker> if you play w/o breakdowns and w/o servicing at depots, there's little reason for the trains to go there
09:35:17 <Gderckx> The depots are accessible and the route planning is OK because the trains do go into the depots
09:36:02 <Gderckx> OK, no I have breakdowns shut off but the vehicles do service
09:36:03 <planetmaker> there likely is a very simple explanation. But people will only know that when they can look at your savegame.
09:36:23 <Gderckx> How am I able to hand you opver my saved game?
09:36:44 <planetmaker> openttd is not save for work, thus I can't look at it now. Usually our forums are a good place to ask
09:37:13 <Supercheese> planetmaker: NSFW? You must be using George's Long Vehicles ;)
09:37:34 <Gderckx> can I just upload a saved game in a new forum tread?
09:38:03 <planetmaker> :) well, maybe it's the wrong phrase. But not a good idea to fire it up at this time :P
09:39:04 <Supercheese> I knew what you meant, but NSFW is traditionally associated with pornographic material, and well there's only one thing in OTTD that really qualifies
09:39:18 <Supercheese> and even then only marginally
09:40:49 <planetmaker> and indeed the margin there is extremely tiny
09:45:00 <Supercheese> nah it's only buses
09:45:15 <Supercheese> and perhaps one obscure Toyland to Mars conversion .grf
09:47:28 <kamnet> You should add the docks to your newobject set
09:48:09 <Flygon_> I heard the word NSFW
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09:48:23 <kamnet> Naked pixel pushing going on, Flygon
09:48:31 <Flygon> Pixel pushing, you say
09:49:23 <Supercheese> Ho, new cement plant appears right next to a clay pit I haven't yet serviced, what luck
09:50:43 <Supercheese> yeah I should add those docks
09:50:56 <Supercheese> but actually getting some playtime now :)
09:53:03 <kamnet> I know what else is needed. Boardwalks.
09:54:26 <Supercheese> Yes, MariCo has yet to add them
09:54:33 <Supercheese> somewhat surprisingly, it is an extensive set
09:55:45 <kamnet> Taking a closer look at the ekranoplan set, I'm kinda shocked at how crudely they're drawn.
10:16:20 <Supercheese> Ugh, my spaghetti point-to-point routes are saturated
10:16:32 <Supercheese> the only networks I ever build sensibly are passenger networks
10:43:32 <YILMAX> Does anybody speak Turkish . And free to speak Turkish ?
10:50:40 <Xaroth|Work> this is an english speaking community I'm afraid
11:01:53 <YILMAX> I Dont speak English so good
11:04:12 <YILMAX> I no longer have it translated google
11:15:08 <Flygon> I was going to ask him how good my Turkish is
11:16:23 * Supercheese uses pursuit. It's super effective!
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14:36:17 <kamnet> *ponders* How do I get myself on the access list for my nick?
14:51:35 <Flygon> /msg nickserv identify password
15:04:56 <kamnet> I know how to identify, I just keep getting errors that I'm not on the access list for the nickname.
15:05:28 <Xaroth|Work> /msg nickserv help ?
15:05:38 <Xaroth|Work> there's an option somewhere to have you auto-identify based on your hostname
15:05:44 <Xaroth|Work> that's what its moaning about
15:05:49 <Xaroth|Work> it doesn't have your host on that list
15:05:54 <Xaroth|Work> i'd say ignore it and move on :P
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15:14:14 <kamnet> But, looking over that, doesn't appear to really be that great an idea anyhow
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18:58:26 <Alberth> fierce firs movement :)
18:59:40 * andythenorth enjoys GarryG’s post
18:59:49 <andythenorth> nice player feedback
19:01:30 * andythenorth misses the days of happy players talking about nice things
19:01:36 <andythenorth> maybe they’re all in the screenshot forum
19:03:07 <Alberth> they're quite happy, but talking about screenshots mostly
19:03:33 * andythenorth deletes random Recycling Plant cargos
19:07:11 <andythenorth> what should it produce?
19:07:17 <andythenorth> Manufacturing Supplies and …?
19:08:11 <Alberth> scrap metal would be fine
19:08:43 * andythenorth counts sources of each
19:08:45 <Alberth> something wood-ish would also be possible, I guess
19:08:57 <andythenorth> handy industry chains view :)
19:09:18 <andythenorth> 4 sources of chemicals
19:09:22 <andythenorth> 1 source of scrap metal
19:09:43 <andythenorth> 8 consumers of chemicals
19:09:46 <andythenorth> 2 consumers of scrap metal
19:10:28 <Alberth> don't know if you have that
19:10:48 <andythenorth> I think a secondary (not tertiary) cargo is nice
19:11:05 <andythenorth> reality says scrap metal, but dunno about reality
19:11:39 <Alberth> reality has no recycle plants, mostly :p
19:14:55 <andythenorth> interesting link about large numbers
19:15:23 <andythenorth> 5 year old keeps asking what the biggest number is
19:15:36 <andythenorth> I’ve told him about infinity, but infinity isn’t a number
19:15:38 <andythenorth> which is interesting
19:15:47 <andythenorth> because then we can discuss what half of infinity is
19:17:59 <Alberth> don't think I ever worried about the biggest number at that age :)
19:19:09 <andythenorth> religion and death we also discuss quite a bit
19:24:22 <andythenorth> dunno about smart yet
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19:28:51 <Alberth> smart is a matter of time :)
19:30:44 <andythenorth> bloody grain mill
19:31:02 <Alberth> the building type, I hope
19:31:34 <andythenorth> special code to restrict layouts by date
19:31:41 <andythenorth> windmills allowed until 1900, not after
19:31:47 <Alberth> we can live without it, we have too many buildings already
19:32:39 <andythenorth> single-tile windmill looks silly with a train station next to it
19:33:11 <andythenorth> “but it seemed like a good idea at the time”
19:33:25 <Alberth> I agree, but a rectangular building doesn't look mill-ish
19:33:51 <planetmaker> enlarge the wind mill to 2x2 tiles
19:33:55 <Alberth> even though they look like that in reality
19:34:06 <andythenorth> two windmills per mill
19:34:10 <andythenorth> doesn’t solve the layouts problem
19:34:15 <planetmaker> then it's the same layout as... hm... dairy :P
19:34:41 <andythenorth> my current choices are: (1) make all industries check layout by date, for just one case that uses it (2) ditch this ‘feature'
19:34:44 <andythenorth> (3) something else
19:34:58 <andythenorth> templating enforces limits :P
19:35:30 <planetmaker> no need to use a template for every industry?
19:35:43 <Alberth> or the same one, for that matter :)
19:35:46 <planetmaker> it's not a fault to use templates generally but not using it in special cases
19:35:56 <andythenorth> just seems clunky
19:36:00 <Alberth> make a derived template?
19:36:04 <andythenorth> such a pointless feature, just adds code bloat
19:36:21 <andythenorth> most of these silly ‘features’ are getting deleted
19:38:00 <andythenorth> this one is worth preserving?
19:38:38 <planetmaker> I agree with the assessment that the 1x1 tile for the industry seems a bit small - especially when compared to a station
19:39:00 <andythenorth> what about ‘windmills look cool’ as a justification for it?
19:39:18 <planetmaker> however... ^ is a good justification :)
19:39:43 <andythenorth> I’ll write an optional macro for it :P
19:40:09 <Alberth> andy, pm knows all about cool wind-mills (but more modern ones)
19:40:15 <kamnet> Windmills look awesome.
19:40:41 <kamnet> Windmills powered pre-revolution industries. We could use more of them.
19:41:17 <kamnet> Grain mills before 1900 should either be windmills or water mills that must be placed on a river.
19:41:25 <kamnet> See! Rivers *ARE* useful!
19:41:57 <andythenorth> the chances of that working well are miniscule
19:42:00 <andythenorth> plus it will break boats
19:42:09 <andythenorth> ‘your ship is lost'
19:42:36 <kamnet> Well obviously you'll need to expand the river if you want your boat to get around the mill.
19:42:52 <kamnet> But, code checks to build water mill. No water? Then build windmill.
19:43:14 <kamnet> But, that's really too much if your goal is to make FIRS more simple.
19:43:23 <Alberth> it won't look very well, probably
19:43:53 <andythenorth> too many edge cases with corners, slopes, players terraforming etc
19:43:58 <Alberth> the wheel has to stay at the mill tile
19:43:59 <glx> and will require a very specific landscape
19:44:06 <andythenorth> it was considered
19:44:10 <andythenorth> Dan roughed up a sprite
19:44:12 <kamnet> Just flatten the land.
19:44:42 <Alberth> let's just hard-code that, who needs hills :p
19:44:44 <planetmaker> andythenorth, the watermills are placed *adjacent* to rivers :)
19:44:47 <andythenorth> it was enough trouble getting ports to work
19:44:55 <andythenorth> planetmaker: that means drawing some sprites over a base tile
19:45:02 <andythenorth> for the water in the mill race
19:45:13 <andythenorth> eh it _could_ be done
19:45:24 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27238 trunk/src/lang/latin.txt (2015-04-15 19:45:15 +0200 )
19:45:25 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:45:26 <andythenorth> I think the benefit is not great compared to the work for andythenorth
19:45:27 <DorpsGek> latin - 2 changes by Supercheese
19:45:36 <planetmaker> yes, of course water mills only for some slopes, the 4 major ones
19:45:48 * andythenorth would sooner have, e.g. replaced the Iron Mine sprites
19:46:00 <andythenorth> or fixed the ‘not enough industry IDs’ problem
19:46:19 <andythenorth> or finished Squid, Road Hog, etc :)
20:05:07 <V453000> nice to see you making progress
20:05:13 <V453000> regardless what progress it is :P
20:05:15 <andythenorth> at the end of this
20:05:18 <andythenorth> nothing will have changed :P
20:05:48 <V453000> well I am also reworking ALL of RAWR 0.0.1 sprites on ALL levels - model, postproduction, all kinds of setups, to coding
20:05:53 <V453000> so it is in the end basically the same
20:05:58 <V453000> but BETTER obviozely :D
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20:08:20 <andythenorth> bigger, faster, stronger
20:08:29 <andythenorth> have you made MOAR yet? o_O
20:13:19 <kamnet> I admire andythenorth and V45300. Cleaning up your code is good.
20:13:32 <kamnet> I barely have any code at all. Its probably horrible.
20:13:38 <andythenorth> or as we also call it ‘introducing new bugs'
20:14:25 <kamnet> but that is the purpose of coding. To seek out new bugs and new instabilities.
20:14:47 <kamnet> If you ain't breakin' it, you ain't tryin'.
20:20:53 <V453000> kamnet, RAWR isnt really a code, it is just stuff replacing sprites :)
20:21:08 <V453000> but the mass-rendering of sprites and their later editing is just pure insanity
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20:40:40 * andythenorth animated the brewery flag
20:40:47 <andythenorth> big gameplay effect
20:44:03 <V453000> I can render everything at the same time with just one click
20:44:10 <V453000> and let the pc torture itself for like a week XD
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20:45:42 <andythenorth> buildings I enjoy drawing
20:45:53 <andythenorth> ships I would gladly never touch again
20:46:32 <andythenorth> breweries - currently locate near town
20:46:36 <andythenorth> is this worth doing?
20:46:37 <V453000> yeah shit that rotates is evil
20:46:44 <andythenorth> we decided dairies aren’t really town industries
20:46:49 <V453000> I guess it is nice but not necessary
20:48:07 <andythenorth> it’s not much work
20:48:13 <andythenorth> just don’t know if it’s helping gameplay
20:48:32 <andythenorth> can’t remember the original reasoning
20:50:34 <V453000> it doesnt, it is just nice :)
20:50:51 <V453000> question is whether it even makes sense to have brewery in town? idk where breweries are normally
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20:51:17 <Alberth> having some specific behavior bits is nice, imho
20:51:31 <andythenorth> I’ll port the current code
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21:07:54 * andythenorth wonders if town zone would be better than town distance
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21:22:12 <andythenorth> hurr, primary industries next I guess
21:28:29 <kamnet> Lots of breweries started out on the edge of towns, but towns encroached and grew around them.
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22:06:41 * DanMacK slaps andythenorth around a bit with a large fishbot
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22:10:03 <frosch123> he fell asleep before he could leave the channel
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22:24:38 <andythenorth> I wish Truth was less variable in presence
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22:27:14 <Supercheese> Today truth is with us... but what about tomorrow?
22:32:11 <andythenorth> ain’t that the truth
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22:36:48 <Supercheese> Truth... is transient, fleeting
22:37:07 <Supercheese> Its presence may well be an illusion
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