IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-04-14
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00:08:25 <Samu> draw roof, the component of the bridge which is logically between the vehicle and the camera
00:08:31 <Samu> is this what I have to edit?
00:11:41 <Supercheese> perhaps, perhaps not
00:15:01 <Supercheese> it certainly seems to be the function that deals with the behavior producing the issue you are describing
00:16:57 <Supercheese> Make sure the arguments there that are passed to AddSortableSpriteToDraw are appropriate
00:17:29 <Supercheese> particularly bridge_z and other z-related values
00:19:36 <Supercheese> you may need to add a special if check for when bridges are over locks and modify the z-stacking accordingly
00:21:17 <Eddi|zuHause> if the bounding boxes overlap, you have no chance to fix issues like this
00:21:32 <Eddi|zuHause> it is provably impossible
00:23:21 <Eddi|zuHause> (there are also cases of non-overlapping bounding boxes that are impossible to solve)
00:26:13 <Samu> there is no problem with the road vehicle
00:28:52 <Samu> okay let me build a train
00:32:07 <Samu> nope, it's just the ship
00:33:37 <Samu> ship flickers when train or truck is above the bridge, but they don't overlap
00:33:44 <Samu> i just have to hide the ship :(
00:44:01 <Samu> they overlap? the boxes?
00:44:26 <Supercheese> I am out of advice to give, sorry
00:44:48 <Samu> i'm looking at z values, it's complicated
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01:00:48 <Samu> Warning 1 warning : invalid argidx -1 (FATAL) C:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\lang\slovak.txt 3065 1 langs
01:01:02 <Samu> suddenly I can't compile?
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01:02:42 <Samu> i didn't edit slovak.txt, I don't even speak slovak
01:03:46 <Samu> Warning 2 warning : language is not compiled (warning) C:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\lang\slovak.txt 3065 1 langs
01:03:51 <Samu> Error 3 error MSB6006: "cmd.exe" exited with code 2. C:\Program Files (x86)\MSBuild\Microsoft.Cpp\v4.0\V120\Microsoft.CppCommon.targets 170 5 langs
01:04:36 <Supercheese> well, what *did* you edit?
01:05:30 <glx> but failing lang doesn't stop compilation anyway
01:06:05 <Samu> STR_TOWN_VIEW_TOWN_GROWS_EVERY :{BLACK}Mesto rastie každ{P ý é ých} {ORANGE}{COMMA}{BLACK} {P deň dni dní}
01:08:49 <Samu> it doesn't let me compile
01:10:44 <Supercheese> oh my word, another Bad_Brett preview
01:10:50 <Supercheese> amazing pictures as usual
01:11:48 <glx> lang failure doesn't stop compilation
01:14:27 <Supercheese> slovak fails for me too
01:14:31 <Supercheese> but the .exe compiles fine
01:20:29 <DorpsGek> Commit by glx :: r27236 trunk/src/lang/slovak.txt (2015-04-14 01:20:23 +0200 )
01:20:30 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r27235): WT3 string validation
01:23:05 <Samu> whatever string validation is, it fixed it
01:24:22 <glx> WT3 should not have accepted these translations, but it's not perfect :)
02:18:43 <Supercheese> Well, the seaplanes don't quite line up with the docks in all orientations, but I'll add it anyway
03:54:33 <kamnet> I'm thinking that the docks should probably line up right in the middle of the tile, and a larger pad of some sort built to meet the planes where the nose rests.
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05:21:22 <Supercheese> well, I'll commit version 1 and can always go back and tweak things
06:10:42 <kamnet> Supercheese, I've got 140 flying boats and floatplanes documented currently.
06:10:59 <Supercheese> Well, graphics are always the hardest part of any grf
06:11:22 <Supercheese> I have spend ~10 times as much time wrangling pixels than actually developing working code for OGFX+ Airports
06:11:29 <kamnet> True, but I figure if I get this out there, maybe somebody decides to take interest. even if it's just one or two at a time.
06:12:11 <Supercheese> I don't think you need the OS2U Kingfisher on your list, I was it there a while back. No transport capacity on that plane ;)
06:12:40 <kamnet> Some of them are a stretch, yes.
06:15:54 <kamnet> Now that I've got as many as I do, I can thin the ranks a little.
06:17:07 <kamnet> But most of the WWI stuff didn't actually have a civilian version, nor did most of it make it out of surplus for conversion.
06:17:24 <kamnet> But they all look nice.
06:18:37 <Supercheese> definitely would be fun in OTTD
06:18:54 <kamnet> Yeah, a few of these are just absolutely nuts.
06:19:04 <kamnet> The Do X, Princess, Dutchess.
06:19:39 <Supercheese> Do-X is a classic example of, "You can make anything fly if you strap enough engines on it."
06:20:12 <kamnet> Earlier I found a proposal for a 24-engine SARO that fits between the Princess and the Duchess.
06:20:57 <Flygon> Can we implement the Flying Ductman? Introduction date around 21AD
06:21:00 <kamnet> Amazing how many of these planes literally crashed and burned, though.
06:21:03 <Flygon> Going by Age of Empires
06:22:31 <Supercheese> The museum that now has the Spruce Goose is not too far from me here
06:22:51 <Supercheese> now there's a flying boat
06:22:52 <kamnet> *Not made of real Spruce
06:23:03 <Supercheese> well, it has to rhyme yaknow ;)
06:23:05 <Flygon> Wait, that's an actual thing???
06:23:18 <kamnet> Howard Huges looked around and said "That's not a flying boat... THIS is a flying boat!"
06:23:18 <Flygon> I thought it was something The Simpsons made up
06:23:33 <Flygon> Hahaha what the fuck, wow
06:24:11 <Supercheese> note DC-3 at bottom
06:24:22 <kamnet> I'm honestly surprised that nobody ever took advantage of it. Never even flew it. *SMH*
06:24:26 <Supercheese> at least I am pretty sure that's a DC-3
06:24:58 <Supercheese> by that point though Hughes was clinically insane
06:25:11 <kamnet> He may have been. But the ship was genius
06:25:48 <Flygon> At least it doesn't catch fire when rained on
06:26:45 <Flygon> Despite what Mister Burns stated otherwise
06:28:34 <Flygon> Shame it'll never fly again
06:29:47 <Supercheese> it'd perhaps be cheaper just to build another with modern techniques
06:29:55 <Supercheese> rather than try and restore the original
06:30:20 <Supercheese> FAA would probably have a fit though with a craft that large
06:30:35 <Supercheese> they are finicky with licensing
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06:30:56 <Flygon> It's not the size that had me thinking they'd panic
06:31:59 * Flygon resumes cursing how hard hair is to animate
06:33:02 <Flygon> Supercheese: Incidentally
06:33:05 <Supercheese> you're probably echoing the Pixar staff when they decided to create Brave
06:33:14 <Flygon> With the H220 restoration here
06:33:20 <Supercheese> "f***ing hair!" say the animators
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06:33:32 <Flygon> There's people suggesting just to build a H221... because of how unique H220 is
06:33:46 <Flygon> And that regauging from 1600mm to 1435mm would require partially rebuidling the loco
06:34:10 <Flygon> H220 being an utter monster of a loco
06:34:20 <Flygon> Most powerful loco in Australia from 1939 through to 1995 :B
06:35:04 <Flygon> It's just not as well known as it's older Sisters tho (the S-class (Steam))
06:35:56 <Flygon> Trying to draw inbetweens for a 2D animation
06:36:04 <Flygon> And keeping track of which hairstrand is which is hell
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07:00:41 <Supercheese> I thought Bananas accepted .tar bundles... maybe I'm doing something wrong?
07:03:59 <Supercheese> something is not right here, Bananas is not liking either .zip or .tar bundle uploads
07:13:06 <kamnet> Not liking my ISP today
07:13:53 <Supercheese> Oh Bananas hates apostrophes, that's it
07:16:29 <kamnet> Now we just need bigger seaplane ports
07:16:55 <Supercheese> I applied a few edits to the docks, like putting railings on both sides
07:17:20 <kamnet> Just read up on the Beechcraft Model 18. World record for longest continual model production
07:17:24 <Supercheese> the problem with the Commuter statemachine is the airports load out in the middle of nowhere
07:17:31 <kamnet> And every one of them could be refitted with pontoons
07:17:37 <Supercheese> and they move about on all sides of their loading zones
07:17:53 <Supercheese> so no docks can extend out to them without also having planes plow straight through the docks...
07:18:11 <Supercheese> guess they load via dinghy :P
07:18:41 <kamnet> Well, i was told that in the regular commuter passengers were just transported underground... :D
07:18:56 <kamnet> Maybe they now have to swim to shore!
07:20:29 <Supercheese> no, at all the commuter ports I've ever flown out of we just walked right up to the plane
07:20:42 <Supercheese> so it makes good sense there for landplanes
07:21:28 <Supercheese> even at SeaTac IIRC the planes just parked out on the tarmac and we walked in to the terminal
07:21:38 <Supercheese> and it sucked because, well, Seattle... rain rain rain
07:21:55 <Supercheese> when I flew on the small regional turboprop planes that is
07:22:37 <Supercheese> you can see the Bombardier Q400s there just park there and no gangways extend
07:25:07 <Supercheese> oh and kamnet: a new version of SNO is out on Bananas that has bare water tiles useful for fencing in the seaplane ports and guarding against flooding
07:26:13 <Supercheese> oooooh I also think I may have included another feature where seagulls randomly spawn on mapgen
07:26:24 <Supercheese> yeah that snuck in there, forgot to mention it in the changelog
07:27:39 <kamnet> *ponders* I dunno if some people will like that one.
07:28:11 <Supercheese> you can disable it
07:28:15 <kamnet> Hey, you got seagulls on water... what about carrion in deserts?
07:28:30 <Supercheese> recolor 'em black
07:28:49 <kamnet> Random birds with openttd trees
07:29:26 <kamnet> Fish spawning near fishing grounds?
07:31:53 <Supercheese> was debating a whale breaching object
07:32:00 <Supercheese> would make for a great animation
07:32:14 <Supercheese> but I am focusing on airports for the time being
07:38:48 <kamnet> A whole pack of random animations wold be kinda fun Supercheese.
07:41:36 <Supercheese> I hope I haven't missed any critical points about usage
07:42:56 <V453000> today forecast: RAWR all over the territory
07:43:25 <V453000> occassional PURRstorms
07:43:49 <supermop> seaguls over fishing grounds would be nice
07:44:21 <Supercheese> eh yeah but they may block ship movement
07:44:31 <planetmaker> hm... fishing grounds. Fish farms maybe rather?
07:44:33 <Supercheese> you can place them manually so as to not impede the trawlers
07:46:10 <Supercheese> but things evidently work
07:48:58 <Supercheese> I cannot access that photo
07:50:15 <planetmaker> so one can also mimic the animation of the lights :)
07:53:03 <planetmaker> Supercheese, and well, made you manager of the airports project as well
07:55:40 <planetmaker> Supercheese, did you know that one can use canal just as fine to fence an area in open water?
07:55:56 <Supercheese> Sure... but you get ugly banks surrounding it
07:56:28 <planetmaker> with the additional benefit that it is still navigable by ships. And no banks when adjacent to water. But yes, towards an airport; didn't think of that
07:56:56 <Supercheese> also the canal tiles have different water colors
07:59:31 <planetmaker> the seaplane airport looks nice :)
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08:14:51 <kamnet> Supercheese, what about a steam-powered seaplane? :D
08:15:48 <kamnet> A Travel Air 4000 was modified with a steam-powered engine and sold to a Japanese buyer in 1934.
08:15:50 <Supercheese> not sure the forums can handle that kind of content ;)
08:18:16 <supermop> I guess it tool them a few iterations to figure out where to put the doors
08:22:30 <kamnet> Rather phallic, isn't it?
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08:32:59 <V453000> hm, so CC mask for bridges ._.
08:41:00 <V453000> only Tubular, Cantliever, Suspension and Concrete bridge needs CC masks, right?
08:41:03 <V453000> the other bridges dont
08:41:09 <V453000> (or can have the CC mask empty)
08:41:38 <V453000> yeah it is a part of suspended bridge in some cases
08:42:22 <Pikka> I guess none of them really need it. you just won't be able to see the difference between the different versions otherwise ;)
08:42:43 <V453000> which is kind of bad I think
08:42:52 <V453000> esp with the cantlievers and tubulars
08:43:20 <Pikka> most of the bridges are pointless anyway. if you're making a newgrf, just disable some of them, or have specific graphics for them? If you're doing a base set, well then...
08:44:26 <V453000> rawr is a newgrf but I only replace sprites so I can easily convert to a base set eventually
08:44:40 <Pikka> oh I see @ concreete bridge in suspension. how ridiculous
08:44:49 <V453000> just one middle piece :)
08:44:55 <Pikka> totally doesn't match in zbase :)
08:45:14 <V453000> the suspended bridges are utterly broken in zbase anyway
08:45:19 <V453000> the overlay doesnt even fit
08:46:00 <Pikka> well. that's zbase for you
08:46:40 <Pikka> it's a good proof of 32bpp-concept
08:57:54 <supermop> somehow ive got it into my head that my mom wants an abstract 3d printed monorail necklace for her birthday
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09:02:13 <supermop> i've spent much of the day trying to make it less phallic
09:09:23 <kamnet> I don't think that's really possible.
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09:56:01 <supermop> need to make a little plastic ball joint to fit in there as a coupler
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10:10:20 <argoneus> phallic monorails are my favourite
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11:31:02 <Flygon> supermop: Gimmie a sec, my net is being a butt
11:31:26 <Flygon> It looks like a Mars Bar
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14:11:12 <jk_> hi, my openttd server ignores settings
14:11:27 <jk_> from config file and applied via console
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16:14:07 <Flygon> <Flygon> Or an airplane exploded
16:14:07 <Flygon> <Flygon> Hard to tell when you live next to an airport
16:14:15 <Flygon> I live in the world of OTTD :B
16:16:19 <Flygon> Seriously tho, my planes love to crash <_>
16:23:29 <Samu> i want to unify the construction rules for waterways
16:24:12 <Samu> but at the same time I want to ease waterways construction
16:25:15 <Samu> should it auto-build a canal if there's none?
16:25:49 <Samu> remove the canal? leave the canal?
16:27:31 <Samu> i know that building a canal has a costly £5000 base to it, but I hope i could convince devs to change it
16:30:02 <Samu> i want to treat the canal the basic foundation of waterways
17:00:28 <Samu> guys, what you rather prefer
17:00:59 <Samu> demolishing a lock, leave the canal behind or remove it?
17:02:01 <Samu> i like the idea of leaving canal behind, but...
17:02:28 <Samu> at the same time I don't like it when that's the only thing left behind
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18:54:42 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: danmack was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 22 hours, 16 minutes, and 28 seconds ago: <DanMacK> Hey all
18:55:15 <Alberth> always friendly saying hello :)
19:00:03 <andythenorth> Alberth: you can’t fix the industry chains view to handle cargos that change when industry is constructed? (it’s non-deterministic)
19:01:15 <planetmaker> andythenorth, the industry chain view is a global thing, working by industry type, not by single industry
19:01:25 <Alberth> it's an industry-type view rather than industry-specific
19:01:55 <andythenorth> presumably there could be a mapping of all cargos that _might_ be accepted/produced
19:02:06 <andythenorth> but it would have to be maintained dynamically
19:02:13 <andythenorth> I think changing cargos is a BAD FEATURE
19:02:34 <planetmaker> andythenorth, yes, as there are callbacks involved, it is too dynamic to be possible to map. It could change by the time of day even
19:02:52 <Alberth> current layout is designed to have 3 outputs max
19:03:21 <andythenorth> I _am_ going to bin that FIRS feature
19:03:23 <andythenorth> sooner not later
19:03:34 <andythenorth> also we should deprecate that cb
19:03:45 <andythenorth> or at least put a health-warning on it, that it causes failure demand
19:03:52 <andythenorth> I would do it, but I can’t wiki
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19:17:10 <Samu> if (HasTileWaterClass(tile) && GetWaterClass(tile) == WATER_CLASS_CANAL && !IsTileType(tile, MP_INDUSTRY) && GetTileOwner(tile) != OWNER_NONE) {
19:19:48 <frosch123> andythenorth: we could call the callback in purchase list and make it return pairs of (cargotype, always/sometimes accepted/produced)
19:20:49 <planetmaker> frosch123, that still makes it rely on correctness of the code, thus it could still fool openttd. However, I guess, it's a nice and good idea
19:21:28 <frosch123> we have to rely on newgrf doing stuff correctly in many cases :p
19:21:35 <frosch123> that's why articulated vehicles are such a pain :p
19:25:34 <V453000> how can you do something not correctly with articulated vehicles? :D
19:25:46 * V453000 is interested in how many times did he score that so far
19:26:26 <frosch123> i think you are immune to that
19:26:35 <frosch123> usually you only break stuff when trying to code bad features
19:27:24 <V453000> power randomization is not bad
19:27:46 <V453000> still want power_decreases_over_time_after_a_year_without_servicing feature :P
19:28:18 <frosch123> you could fade vehicles into transparency
19:28:29 <frosch123> if you don't service them, you won't e able to find them anymore
19:28:37 <V453000> I am afraid people would like that
19:29:28 <frosch123> or turn them into text "service me, fu"
19:30:05 <V453000> I need something functional
19:30:19 <V453000> visuals can be additive to that, but it mainly needs to work
19:30:35 <frosch123> well, as said, the only thing available would be loading time :)
19:31:44 <V453000> am still wondering how much magic can I do with it changing only upon visits of stations/depots
19:31:47 <frosch123> @kick samu like this?
19:31:47 *** Samu was kicked by DorpsGek (like this?)
19:31:57 <V453000> e.g. train would be considered serviced for 5 trips XD
19:32:27 <V453000> and after every trip it would get worse
19:32:54 <frosch123> the only "storage" you have are random bits
19:33:02 <Alberth> will you nicely wait for your scheduled service? :)
19:33:19 <frosch123> you can code "decrease power by 10% with 25% chance on every stop"
19:33:47 <V453000> amazing attitude Samu :)
19:34:09 <V453000> frosch123: but servicing cant play a role in that?
19:34:20 <frosch123> V453000: time since last service can
19:34:36 <V453000> that is basically everything I need then I think
19:34:47 <V453000> if time since last service > whatever, chance >0%
19:34:51 <frosch123> but you can only change it somewhat randomly, not exactly
19:34:57 <Samu> i get so frustrated trying to get this right
19:35:18 <frosch123> and same with the servicing itself
19:35:26 <frosch123> it cannot immediately increse to 100%
19:35:33 <frosch123> but only after stopping multiple times :p
19:35:46 <andythenorth> frosch123: wrt calling the cb, is it worth it? o_O $someone also has to fix industry chains view...
19:35:49 <V453000> well that can be hacked relatively easily in the game, but ugly
19:35:52 <frosch123> so, servicing once does not work
19:35:57 <frosch123> you have to service regulary
19:36:19 <frosch123> could also be a feature :p
19:36:38 <frosch123> but in any case, due to the randomness, it will always be weird and confusing :)
19:36:41 <V453000> I guess chance that we get proper breakdowns in the actual game is about 0% eh
19:36:45 <Alberth> depot visit wouldn't work?
19:37:04 <Alberth> V453000: depends on your notion of 'proper' :p
19:37:14 <V453000> anything that makes actual sense
19:37:21 <frosch123> Alberth: the only operation on the "storage" variable is: rerandomise these bits
19:37:23 <V453000> having trains decrease power after some time, would make sense for example :P
19:37:35 <frosch123> so if you want to set or clear a bit, you only have 50% chance succeeding :p
19:38:56 <Samu> why did you get me into coding? you don't care after all
19:44:41 <V453000> Alberth plays with breakdowns, he should code better breakdowns
19:45:25 <frosch123> it's not on my todo list
19:45:26 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27237 trunk/src/lang/latin.txt (2015-04-14 19:45:15 +0200 )
19:45:27 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:45:28 <DorpsGek> latin - 7 changes by Supercheese
19:45:34 <frosch123> considering its length, chances are pretty slim
19:48:57 <V453000> frosch123: show me your todolist, I will explain to you what can be left out! :D
19:56:42 <V453000> think of the benefits
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19:58:29 <V453000> OMG, all beware the golden moment when andythenorth and DanMacK both meet in the channel simultaneously. Cat has been found and the world goes to shit.
19:58:47 * andythenorth tells V453000 to bugger off
20:00:44 <planetmaker> frosch123, I asked ammler about pw for pypi access of nml. I'm curious if/when I'll get an answer. the pw reset request however seems to end up at no address which I have access to
20:02:28 <frosch123> in the worst case we have to rename the package to py3-nml :p
20:03:24 <Alberth> wouldn't yexo be the logical person with the pw?
20:03:33 <planetmaker> two names seem registered there, devzone and ammler. But well... no access to either. I guess next step would be asking pypi admins to do something about that :)
20:04:15 <planetmaker> Alberth, yes, I thought so, too. But pypi gives those two names. I could write an e-mail to yexo, too... and/or hirundo
20:04:16 <Alberth> some years back, they were compromised, and all accounts were reset
20:04:39 <planetmaker> probably that's why the PW I guessed doesn't work
20:05:03 <Alberth> they had a grace-ish period for some time, but that's long ago
20:09:46 <andythenorth> just crack pypi :P
20:09:51 <andythenorth> it’s probably vulnerable
20:11:10 <planetmaker> Alberth, we didn't care about pypi for long... since nml 0.2.4
20:11:43 <Alberth> yeah, I would not have added it at all, tbh
20:18:45 <planetmaker> Alberth, it's not necessarily a bad idea to have it on pypi. But yeah... it's there now. If I can regain access, it could probably be automated to be uploaded from release builds
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20:36:10 <andythenorth> I actually found a need for some in a MOC recently
20:36:13 <andythenorth> but I don’t own any
20:36:22 <andythenorth> makes a spacer on pins
20:36:42 <Wolf01> I looked for a gauge for the blue technic pins for ages
20:39:29 <Wolf01> is it me or is it really hard to find cross axles 7M?
20:40:16 <Wolf01> I needed some of them for my new moc, but now I rebuild that section
20:41:58 <andythenorth> regular bluish-grey 7L? Loads of those
20:43:12 <Wolf01> me too, but only on technic "untouchable" sets, on little sets I purchase mainly for pieces there is one every 4 sets
20:43:48 * andythenorth buys 50 at once :)
20:44:08 * andythenorth has an embarassing amount of technic parts
20:45:29 <Wolf01> I filled out any possible space where to put legos at work place, so I must limit myself, my coworker is building a huge moc and is buying lots of pieces from bl
20:46:42 <V453000> when you complete a goal in BusyBee, what happens with the old goal?
20:46:50 <V453000> does it just get fulfilled and disappear?
20:47:23 <V453000> I know, I could just try but playing the game, you know
20:49:43 <V453000> it would be kind of cool if the goals stayed
20:49:53 <V453000> so you would have to keep the stuff running
20:50:10 <V453000> now that I am done with goal to power plant A, I can as well just remove the lines
20:50:28 <andythenorth> I think a *different* GS could stack goals
20:50:31 <andythenorth> basically tetris
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20:50:55 <andythenorth> Busy Bee is pretty simple, and isn’t supposed to be the definitive GS :)
20:51:04 <V453000> sure :) looks quite fun though
20:51:04 <andythenorth> rather, I am hoping people clone it and hack it
20:57:48 <Alberth> they seem to do, but don't publish :p
21:00:45 <V453000> some dude which makes the czech railway set posted a screenshot of CETS-like turning ... I thought he copied it from CETS but asked, and he said he made it himself
21:00:57 <V453000> the last post in the thread is me asking if he could show me the code XD
21:01:35 <V453000> perhaps I am just impatient
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21:03:13 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: i think the czech set is actually older than CETS
21:03:31 <V453000> this is a new edition in 32bpp
21:03:39 <V453000> the old one is older probably, yes :)
21:04:25 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe i'm switching stuff up with some russian stuff by George
21:04:59 <Eddi|zuHause> there's also a polish set that looked quite impressive on first glance
21:05:41 <V453000> the czech stuff is nice but it is like 2 trains
21:06:02 <V453000> he just posted one screenshot of the turning, but I was curious regardless
21:19:14 <andythenorth> so ships with n holds?
21:19:25 * andythenorth is redesigning Squid
21:19:27 <andythenorth> because it’s flawed
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continue to next day ⏵
