IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-04-13
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01:03:09 *** supermop has joined #openttd
01:19:13 <kamnet> everybody's asleep again.
01:19:40 <kamnet> Nobody rocks out all night like they used to. Jobs and stuff
01:36:07 <Supercheese> Well, it's early evening here in the States
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01:49:30 <Supercheese> Hmm yeah I gotta do those too
01:49:46 <supermop> working as a freelancer in a foreign country is a pain
01:51:19 <supermop> need to figure out the ex. rate for each day that i submitted an invoice
02:13:33 <supermop> wish i had a num pad
03:24:31 <kamnet> Gotta finish my taxes too. Actually had them done in February but last week I got a notice that they don't have a particular form on file
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04:52:09 <kamnet> Instead of a num pad, supermop is given a numb pad, meaning he can no longer feel his feet, making it difficult to walk.
04:52:49 <supermop> i hope this thing works:
04:53:12 <supermop> going to take a month for it to arrive in aus
04:53:36 <Pikka> should've stuck with the more colourful description imo :)
04:54:06 <supermop> i that case i should have worked more innuendo into it
04:55:01 <supermop> thing is i feel like any amount of engineering or design into this thing past this point and I may as well just design a whole new grinder
04:56:28 <supermop> i hope the 'strong flexible' plastic can be deformed enough that i can jam the grinder threads onto there in case i got the tolerances wrong
04:56:57 <supermop> ok taxes supposedly all done now
04:58:35 <supermop> maaybe i should have had one sent to someone in the us so they can test fit while i'm waiting for it to show up here
05:04:04 <supermop> are you going to print little 3d pineapple trains pikka?
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05:11:18 <Pikka> It's a nice idea. :) maybe a kickstarter stretch goal, or a backer reward...
05:11:48 <Pikka> in any case that's waiting until july, for tax reasons :)
05:12:45 <supermop> aussie tax year so odd
05:26:22 <supermop> i was thinking i should print a series of little pubs as capsule toys or whatever
05:26:42 <supermop> maybe inspired by real melbourne ones
05:27:42 <Cheese_Flygon> I read "capsule toys"
05:27:48 <Cheese_Flygon> And thought to myself "Hmm, Pokeballs"
05:28:06 <Cheese_Flygon> All we need now is a train powered by an Ampharos and we're set @_@
05:28:54 <supermop> i think a whole set of openttd figures would be neat
05:29:11 <supermop> the chibi trains already look like toys
05:32:36 <Cheese_Flygon> 3D Printed OTTD toys?
05:32:41 <Cheese_Flygon> You're actually onto something here
05:32:54 <Cheese_Flygon> Given almost all modern sets are made using 3D models...
05:37:38 <supermop> well i'd just model and print the original trains as they probably best embody the spirit of the game
06:16:15 <Eddi|zuHause> <Cheese_Flygon> And thought to myself "Hmm, Pokeballs" <-- uhmm... but wasn't "capsule" in dragonball?
06:18:11 <Cheese_Flygon> I was banned from watching that show as a kid
06:18:18 <Cheese_Flygon> My Mother was a bit... sensitive
06:18:23 <Cheese_Flygon> For anyone that knows me personally
06:18:33 <Cheese_Flygon> They know how ironically it turned out
06:22:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i probably should be glad that i don't know you personally :p
06:34:06 <Supercheese> still cheesy eh Flygon?
06:35:09 <Supercheese> I don't always make jokes. But when I do, they're bad puns. Stay cheesy my friends.
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07:05:46 <V453000> ._. people apparently dont spend enough time with openttd yet, so they need 3D prints
07:06:03 <V453000> throw away all the features, people dont need them :D
07:06:11 <V453000> just give them gimp and all sprites to compose
07:07:52 <Cheese_Flygon> It'd be really cool
07:07:57 <Cheese_Flygon> To have a holo-OpenTTD
07:08:05 <Cheese_Flygon> The ground would be rendered like
07:08:11 <Cheese_Flygon> Age of Empires II's ground
07:08:20 <Cheese_Flygon> AoEIIHD's ground renderer sucks major ass
07:08:32 <Cheese_Flygon> AoEII original's render looked far nicer :|
07:09:34 <Supercheese> there's another AoE 2 HD expansion coming out innit?
07:10:09 <Cheese_Flygon> But will it fixed the renderer?
07:10:12 <V453000> how was original render different?
07:10:38 <V453000> also there are tons of texture packs on the steam workshop so you can change it a lot, too
07:10:51 <Cheese_Flygon> The original render was sharper
07:10:55 <Cheese_Flygon> And way WAAAAY faster
07:11:02 <Cheese_Flygon> Texture packs nothing
07:11:06 <Cheese_Flygon> The issue IS the renderer
07:11:53 <V453000> idk I have no problem with it
07:12:24 <V453000> and I think there are bigger issues than some stupid ground
07:12:28 <V453000> like multiplayer lag etc
07:12:43 <Cheese_Flygon> AoEII shouldn't have troubles running on my laptop from 2011
07:12:51 <Cheese_Flygon> AoEIIHD crashes outright
07:12:55 <Cheese_Flygon> Or is very laggy when it is
07:13:05 <V453000> I have laptop from like 2008 and it is just fine
07:13:19 <Cheese_Flygon> No lag or anything?
07:14:01 <Cheese_Flygon> Hell of a laptop
07:14:14 <V453000> or the problem is nonexistent or at your side
07:14:44 <Cheese_Flygon> On my old laptop, and on silver desktop, lagged like hell/crashed
07:14:50 <Cheese_Flygon> Haven't tested on new desky or new lappy yet
07:14:55 <Cheese_Flygon> Avoiding Steam on new lappy
07:15:15 <Cheese_Flygon> On other house occupant's PC (was most powerful til I got my new PC's)
07:15:20 <Cheese_Flygon> It also liked to lag the hell up
07:15:24 <Cheese_Flygon> Didn't crash tho
07:17:40 <V453000> do you have any link that would even describe the problem you are claiming?
07:17:47 <V453000> I cant seem to find anything
07:17:52 <V453000> but then I might be searching poorly
07:43:45 <V453000> or at least a mention that the renderer is different? :d
07:44:40 <V453000> the only difference between terrains I can spot is that the HD one is smaller due to the higher resolution
07:47:24 <Cheese_Flygon> Sorry for the delay
07:47:29 <Cheese_Flygon> irl stuff came up
07:47:38 <Cheese_Flygon> You might have a less keen eye, then :P
07:47:51 <Cheese_Flygon> But, going by myself and other peoples I've spoken to personally
07:48:03 <Cheese_Flygon> A fair few have issues with the game having terrible performance issues
07:51:57 <V453000> must be some australian virus XD
07:52:20 <Cheese_Flygon> Happened outside of Aussieland
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08:33:17 <planetmaker> Cheese_Flygon, don't play 4096^2 maps. Check in your cfg sprite_cache_size and increase its value
08:34:11 <V453000> I dont think he was talking bout openttd pm :P
08:38:13 <Supercheese> yeah the complaints were of AoE
08:51:38 <supermop> i want to fabricate some more stuff
08:52:37 <planetmaker> lol, so he joins this channel and complains lengthy about other games?
08:53:53 <Supercheese> buy a printer if you really want more stuff, some get pretty cheap
08:54:06 <Supercheese> I saw a neat new model on kickstarter, what was it...
08:54:41 <planetmaker> I heard the newest thing is to actually build the 3D printer yourself :)
08:54:49 <planetmaker> Friend of mine just did
08:54:51 <Supercheese> $1,678,098 pledged of $100,000 goal
08:55:32 <Supercheese> planetmaker: yeah I bought mine as a kit and built it last summer, it was quite fun
08:55:54 <Supercheese> mine is basically a larger version of that one linked there... much larger
08:56:22 <V453000> /feeling that people in this channel are nerds intensifies
08:56:42 <Supercheese> why would you ever think people here are *not* nerds? :P
08:57:08 <planetmaker> ^^ ;) Especially as the mirror should convince you otherwise already every morning :P
08:57:24 <Cheese_Flygon> planetmaker: Mate, I'm the sort of guy that'd try a 32768*32768 map then be mildly disappointed at myself because I ran out of RAM
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08:59:33 <Supercheese> it's in tin innit?
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09:05:00 <chillcore> one day I'll add curvature and render the world ... the ground will thump and ripple every time a baby is born.
09:06:50 <V453000> it will probably be slightly biased to asia and africa :P
09:07:10 <chillcore> bonus points for clicking vehicles before they land
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09:20:29 <supermop> i like the idea of printing metal
09:20:45 <supermop> i think id be better off with a benchtop cnc mill though
09:21:03 <planetmaker> you can have both (as separate machines) :)
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09:23:01 <supermop> neither in a manhattan appartment when i move back, but i may try to sublet some studio or workshop space
09:23:51 <Supercheese> renting space in a machine shop is quite possible, there are a couple new business ventures around here offering that
09:24:51 <supermop> yeah - i'm bummed that 3rd ward in nyc went out of business
09:25:18 <Supercheese> a pretty neat co-op business model IMO
09:25:26 <supermop> i love the idea of having workshops like a gym membership - so you can access all of the $$$ machine tools you'd never be able to buy for yourself
09:25:45 <Supercheese> huge CNC mill with auto tool changer... insanely expensive
09:26:08 <Supercheese> but spread the cost around like buying a share in an airplane and it becomes affordable
09:30:20 <supermop> when i was in school in st louis there was a machine shop with 6 or so of those tools, laser and plasma cutters,
09:30:55 <supermop> laser cutter with 20 foot bed, 6 dof robot arm laser cutter
09:31:06 <supermop> electroplating and heat treating stuff
09:31:28 <supermop> and the owner let furniture students have stuff fabricated at cost
09:32:12 <supermop> i still have many many boxes of machined aluminum parts for a shelving system i design in my 4th year
09:32:48 <supermop> should probably sell them for scrap when the alu. price rebounds
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10:01:56 * Supercheese wonders how difficult it would be to add grammatical cases to station strings
10:02:07 <Supercheese> or rather support for them
10:31:22 <kamnet> man this is getting out of hand
10:35:23 <kamnet> building this tracking table for seaplanes
10:38:39 <V453000> just set up some series of improving speeds over the years, throw in some variety, and adjust everything else rather randomly :P
10:42:17 <kamnet> No I'm making a chart of historic seaplanes, now that we've got an airport to use them in :-)
10:43:03 <planetmaker> oh, did supercheese already include it? :)
10:43:25 <Supercheese> last commit was the autofences parameter
10:46:48 <kamnet> But it's getting there
10:47:00 <kamnet> And you're right, we're gonna need some bigger seaplane ports! -)
10:47:40 <kamnet> I have no idea where I'm going to land this Hughes H-4 Herculese.
10:50:14 <Supercheese> Ugh, game scripts really need to support grammatical cases
10:51:49 <Supercheese> also I wonder why the various game script settings are always hardcoded
10:51:54 <Supercheese> their strings that is
10:55:10 <planetmaker> Supercheese, iirc they *do* support cases
10:55:57 <planetmaker> it just needs the original authors to support that
10:56:25 <planetmaker> the authors of the NewGRF or GameScript that is
10:59:04 <Supercheese> Well, I am trying to manually add the language file with cases in my local copy of a gamescript and it does not appear to support them
10:59:27 <Supercheese> I believe gamescripts lack support for any sort of {STRING.case}
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11:07:38 <planetmaker> hm, I *thought* they would, Supercheese. Did you add the case support also to the header of the file (and does the language support it)?
11:08:02 <Supercheese> Yes and yes, but to no avail
11:08:15 <Supercheese> I can find no extant examples for GS langfile cases either
11:08:41 <planetmaker> dlhero, what does need cleaning up?
11:09:57 <kamnet> That's what I was gonna ask :)
11:10:42 <dlhero> planetmaker: well unfortunately due to a bug the graph links when enabled are not shown in in-game screenschots
11:12:06 <planetmaker> so first question: was that bug reported? :)
11:12:16 <dlhero> not yet. i'm writing a descriptino now
11:13:03 <dlhero> 2nd problem is how to manage the loops a) when population/passengers are increasing
11:13:57 <planetmaker> sounds like a difficult question to answer. I suggest to ask that in our forums, with the savegame attached (and the image)
11:14:17 <planetmaker> at least difficult without looking at the actual savegame
11:14:38 <dlhero> I tried double rails/more trains. but it didn't work
11:15:16 <dlhero> also another bug on cargodist. it seems that tenport east/tenport south are not connected
11:15:25 <dlhero> same for west and woods
11:15:29 <planetmaker> ah, and pretty please: do use png screenshots. jpg often blurs the essential details
11:15:56 <dlhero> sorry about that. imgur
11:16:24 <planetmaker> and cargodist needs time. Just telling a train to connect two stations doesn't trigger the link. It needs actually to become active, thus the train needs to have gone at least once the route. And it depends on the re-calcluation settings
11:17:04 <dlhero> the trains are in a loop they always visit the stations
11:17:33 <dlhero> xm. must be a bug with the cargo flow legend then
11:21:02 <planetmaker> dlhero, no-one with any credibility will comment on link graph issues without looking at the savegame itself.
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16:53:34 <kamnet> Hm, nobody's said anything for the last 5 hours
16:54:16 <Alberth> sure? I got "mode (+o Alberth) by ChanServ"
16:54:52 <planetmaker> that's the sound of silence :)
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17:06:32 <Alberth> no nice posts in the forum, mostly
17:06:45 <Alberth> also, cmake and luajit are being annoying
17:06:58 <planetmaker> where do you need those? freerct?
17:07:37 <Samu> help me draw the bridge tile
17:11:38 <Alberth> it's that hard to draw a grey area?
17:12:01 <Alberth> or hard black, for that matter
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17:46:25 <Samu> how can objects be built under bridges and still display the bridge correctly?
17:47:15 <Samu> WaterFeature _water_feature[CF_END];
17:48:35 <planetmaker> Samu, for the same reason anything below the bridge is displayed correctly. Why should it be otherwise?
17:49:22 <Samu> i can't make the bridge appear :(
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17:54:44 <planetmaker> ah. Ok, but that's a patched OpenTTD, yes?
17:55:08 <planetmaker> NewObjects have a height assigned and OpenTTD checks that property to decide whether they can be placed under a bridge or not
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17:57:19 <Samu> I'm looking at newgrf_canal.cpp, i need a similar property for lock tiles
17:58:14 <planetmaker> as locks are hard-coded objects, you simply need to allow bridges over them. Or at least at a certain height. Done.
18:00:17 <Samu> I'm unsure where to look for in the code
18:00:53 <planetmaker> sprite sorting maybe
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18:02:53 <ST2> vehicles will levitate? cool feature :)
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18:54:02 <Samu> GetTileZ - this is getting the height as the coordinates
18:54:40 <Samu> but, the lower part of a lock has an added height, or is supposed to have
18:55:02 <Samu> apparently it doesn't have it, or it's not set correctly, or I dunno
18:55:16 <Samu> I really don't know how to change the properties
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18:55:52 <planetmaker> docks don't have any height defined. They don't need it
18:57:02 <Samu> I want to allow bridges over locks
19:01:30 <Samu> the middle tile is on a slope, calculating the corect height here is tricky :(
19:03:26 <planetmaker> Samu, no... there are the tile accessors which tell you the height. It's usually the one of the highest corner
19:04:19 <planetmaker> don't even think of re-inventing height calculation for sloped tiles for that purpose :)
19:04:55 <planetmaker> thus the height is tile_height * height_of_stuff_on_tile
19:05:14 <Samu> GetTileZ on the middle tile versus GetBridgeHeight on the middle tile
19:06:06 <Samu> min difference is... 2, I think
19:06:22 <Samu> for the upper tile, difference is 1
19:07:38 <Samu> ah, GetTileZ is getting me the lowest value
19:16:33 <Alberth> it helps if you don't make assumptions on how a function works, but instead read its documentation
19:17:38 <Samu> z_lower_bridge = 3, z_middle_bridge = 3, z_upper_bridge = 3
19:18:40 <planetmaker> Alberth, that's too simple! I mean... everyone could go and read docs.openttd.org! really!
19:20:47 <Samu> z_lower_tile = 1, z_middle_tile = 1, z_upper_tile = 2
19:24:46 <Samu> if (z_lower_bridge <= z_lower_tile + 1) return_cmd_error(STR_ERROR_BRIDGE_TOO_LOW_FOR_TERRAIN);
19:29:20 <Samu> okay, so this is for when building a lock
19:29:35 <Samu> building a lock under a bridge
19:29:51 <Samu> building a bridge over a lock is where things get complicated :(
19:30:00 <Samu> I don't know how to get this z_lower_tile + 1
19:32:12 <Samu> if (GetTileMaxZ(tile) > z_start) return_cmd_error(STR_ERROR_BRIDGE_TOO_LOW_FOR_TERRAIN);
19:32:46 <Samu> how do I put the +1 for the lock lower part in here?
19:37:08 <Samu> line 419 of tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp
19:37:50 <Samu> it is happening before checking if it's a water tile :(
19:45:50 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27235 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2015-04-13 19:45:39 +0200 )
19:45:51 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:45:52 <DorpsGek> latin - 123 changes by Supercheese
19:45:53 <DorpsGek> slovak - 54 changes by andrej
19:45:54 <DorpsGek> ukrainian - 130 changes by Fixer
19:46:34 <Samu> if (GetTileMaxZ(tile) + spec->height > z_start) goto not_valid_below;
19:46:36 <planetmaker> Samu, it's a bit pointless, if you paste line by line our code here
19:47:31 <Samu> objects have a height spec
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20:01:06 <Supercheese> Samu: I have a patch that permits bridges over locks
20:01:43 <Supercheese> In the function: static void DrawTile_Water(TileInfo *ti)
20:01:57 <Supercheese> you need to add DrawBridgeMiddle(ti); under case WATER_TILE_LOCK:
20:02:38 <Supercheese> and, if desired, change the rules about placement of locks under extant bridges by modifying line 291
20:02:53 <Supercheese> oh this is in water_cmd.cpp
20:03:00 <Supercheese> forgot to mention that at the beginning
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20:05:26 <Supercheese> that patch permits bridges over both locks and ship depots
20:07:01 <Samu> why was it so easy, omg i'm such a dumb guy
20:07:48 <Samu> let me show you what i have so far
20:11:05 <Samu> the bridge is finally fisplayed
20:11:36 <Samu> now my issue is building a bridge over the lower part of a lock
20:11:57 <Samu> can't allow it to build if the bridge height is not high enough
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20:18:34 <V453000> managed to finish some deadlines at work, rawr time approaches :>
20:20:49 <Alberth> brace yourselves, for rawr awesomeness!
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20:35:08 <Samu> if (IsLock(tile) && GetLockPart(tile) == LOCK_PART_LOWER && GetTileMaxZ(tile) + 1 > z_start) return_cmd_error(STR_ERROR_BRIDGE_TOO_LOW_FOR_TERRAIN);
20:38:51 <Samu> the ships are crossing the pavement of the bridge :(
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20:44:41 <Samu> they're going through the locks lol
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21:03:29 <Samu> ship is supposed to be hidden
21:03:47 <Samu> it is hidden for the lower part, but not for the middle and upper parts
21:03:57 <V453000> who builds bridges over locks XD
21:16:36 <Samu> i got two problems to fix: bridge pillars craving into the lower part of lock, and ships not being hidden under the bridge for the middle and upper parts of lock
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21:28:36 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: danmack was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 0 hours, 50 minutes, and 22 seconds ago: <DanMacK> Hey all
21:30:17 <andythenorth> slow forums day eh
21:39:24 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.393939393939
21:39:44 <andythenorth> hmm, not done yet
21:53:21 * andythenorth puzzled by newgrf again
21:53:27 <andythenorth> random_trigger cb for industry tiles
21:53:34 *** kais58|AFK is now known as kais58__
22:04:36 <frosch123> it rerandomised one bit upon the tileloop
22:05:23 <andythenorth> I wonder why it’s bothering
22:05:27 <frosch123> but it should have at leas two return values
22:06:12 <andythenorth> I read it as ‘this switch is pointless'
22:06:40 <frosch123> maybe you use that bit in some other callback
22:07:10 <andythenorth> _tile_anim_random_delay switch above?
22:08:10 <frosch123> anyway, i forgot how smart nml actually is... maybe that rerandomise does not work anyway
22:08:54 <frosch123> maybe it only randomly starts the animation
22:09:07 <andythenorth> if that is a correct switch, I’ve been misunderstanding something
22:09:35 <andythenorth> unless simply handling the cb causes the re-randomise
22:09:49 <andythenorth> in which case still no switch is needed, just return CB_RESULT_DO_NOTHING
22:11:32 <andythenorth> the resulting animation is actually random
22:11:37 <V453000> might want to move it away from ssd :(
22:11:39 * andythenorth thinks this effect is not needed
22:12:22 * andythenorth will be deleting
22:12:29 <andythenorth> moar FIRS deletions
22:15:50 <andythenorth> thanks btw frosch123
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22:51:12 * andythenorth wonders how many random bits are in extra_callback_info1 for anim_control
22:52:43 <andythenorth> and whether (extra_callback_info1 & 71) produces a useful value
22:56:49 <frosch123> & 71 is really weird :p
22:57:12 <andythenorth> it’s the animation length
22:57:25 <frosch123> well, ok, 0x45 is not much more weird than 0x71
22:57:43 <andythenorth> it’s coming out of the code templating currently
22:57:44 <frosch123> so you want %, not &
22:57:47 <andythenorth> but might be too naive
22:58:01 <andythenorth> switch is supposed to pick a random frame, once
22:58:07 <andythenorth> (when construction state changes)
22:58:13 <andythenorth> then loop normally after that
22:58:17 <andythenorth> it appears to not do that
22:58:49 <andythenorth> setting INDTILE_FLAG_RANDOM_ANIMATION flag appears to make no difference
23:00:50 <andythenorth> eh % works perfectly
23:01:18 <frosch123> you can replace that whole switch with a single "return extra_callback_info1 % 71"
23:01:36 <frosch123> "abc: return abc" is pretty pointless
23:04:06 <andythenorth> hrm, that makes a templating headache :)
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23:45:35 <Samu> how do i hide the ship under the bridge
23:47:40 <Supercheese> maybe check the DrawBridgeMiddle function
23:47:46 <Supercheese> see how its sprite stacking goes
23:53:43 <Xaroth|Work> I don't get how that image is, at all, possible
23:54:38 <Xaroth|Work> looks as though area the boat is traversing is near-same-height as the road
23:54:42 <Xaroth|Work> while it should be a level lower
23:55:01 <Xaroth|Work> but that might be the side walls acting up
23:56:10 *** Supercheese is now known as Guest1971
23:56:15 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
23:56:50 <Samu> wow DrawBridgeMiddle is big
continue to next day ⏵
