IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-04-11
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00:07:34 <frosch123> Supercheese: i like "perpendicular" as english word, though it is kind of latin
00:07:58 <Supercheese> perpendicular is a perfectly "normal" word ;)
00:16:28 <kamnet> Supercheese: Even if it doesn't get done, they'll still be fun to have.
00:18:06 <kamnet> *ponders* Should I go ahead and start throwing in costs on these
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00:38:30 <planetmaker> frosch123, did packaging work for NML for you?
00:38:59 <kamnet> Good evening, supermop
00:39:05 <frosch123> today is starcraft evening :)
00:51:21 <supermop> i cant figure out how best to represent a certain type of stonework because i nver learned what it is called
00:52:01 <supermop> where the stones have a rough split face in the center, but then a very fine clean chiseled edge where the fit together
00:56:17 <supermop> hmm we use masonary to refer any type of stacked block construction fancy or otherwise
00:56:32 <supermop> bricks and concrete included
00:58:11 <supermop> the type im thinking of is similar to ashlar but fancier
01:00:36 <frosch123> supermop: the german term is "Bossenstein"
01:00:42 <frosch123> but wiki has no link to an english page
01:02:18 <supermop> hmm not quite, similar but with a 50mm or so smooth border around the edge of the stone
01:02:30 <supermop> very 1830s-1870s french in style i think
01:02:44 <frosch123> yes, i know what you mean
01:03:27 <planetmaker> he... I didn't know that word, even in German, frosch123 :)
01:03:41 <planetmaker> and why is there another nick coming first in completion with fr...
01:04:35 <frosch123> supermop: still the same name
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01:05:21 <Samu> i just had an idea that could help nerf aircraft high income
01:06:05 <Samu> the older it gets, the slower it accelerates
01:06:51 <supermop> i never learned whatever the english term would be, but based on the era in which the style was used in the anglosphere i bet it would be the french term
01:08:19 <frosch123> there are bossage and rustication
01:08:26 <planetmaker> Samu, and how do you justify that?
01:08:50 <planetmaker> also, just make that as NewGRF. Thus: can already be done
01:09:41 <Samu> i was looking at each design and their lifetime
01:10:41 <supermop> can't find any bump maps under german or english term though
01:10:54 <supermop> so may need to make my own
01:10:54 <Samu> am also doing some kind of reseach on them
01:12:29 <Samu> using a lifetime income patch that was posted on the forum, it's interesting to see that a minor difference in reliability has a great impact on it
01:12:57 <planetmaker> anyway... I don't see any chance for such kind of patch
01:12:59 <Samu> maybe a mix of reduced acceleration based on age and reliability
01:14:49 <Samu> still have to finish this research, but it's interesting to see breakdowns doing major lifetime income so far
01:14:55 <supermop> i think i will try to find good split stone bump map, create a 3d surface from that, then trim the 3d surface with clean edge surfaces, array into to brick pattern, render hear on, and export zbuffer from rendering to create new bumpmap
01:15:08 <Samu> can sometimes be a difference of £1.000.000
01:17:57 <Samu> there was an interesting result, let me find it
01:20:02 <Samu> Darwin 500 vs Guru Galaxy, they have nearly the same capacity
01:20:41 <Samu> 78% reliability vs 76% reliability
01:20:53 <Samu> 25 years old vs 20 years old
01:21:46 <Samu> £2,209,398 vs £1,568,114
01:23:01 <Samu> damn, i'm confusing myself
01:23:20 <Samu> i remember they had the same age, almost the same capacity but very different reliablity
01:27:20 <Samu> why the hell didn't i take note of my results :(
01:32:26 <Samu> found one interesting comparison
01:33:02 <Samu> FFP Dart vs Bakewell Luckett LB-9
01:33:42 <Samu> 90pass/10mail vs 100pass/15mail
01:33:54 <Samu> very different duration on both
01:34:32 <Samu> now before telling their reliablity, here's their lifetime profit:
01:35:19 <Samu> £1.020.153 vs £1.083,969
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01:38:08 <Samu> nearly the same lifetime profit, but that 18 years vs 26 years, it's interesting to see how much 15% max reliablity difference can make
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02:05:31 <Samu> instead of a global game setting for running costs
02:08:04 <Samu> i dunno, just thinking of a feasible idea to make the default aircraft not this good
02:21:28 <Supercheese> "default aircraft"
02:21:30 <Supercheese> there's yer problem
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03:01:43 <Supercheese> Huh, that's odd, when you load a game in English and change in-game to Latin, there are some grammatical case issues with strings provided by newgrfs. But when you load the game originally in Latin, there are no issues
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03:16:26 <kamnet> Oh, good. Nobody was talking to me anyhow. :D
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03:56:06 <LordAro> Mr_Bones_: it's indeed not a requirement, but i'd recommend it
03:56:33 <LordAro> some graphics get displayed as '?' otherwise
03:56:44 <LordAro> but other than that and an error message on startup, it's fine
03:56:54 <Mr_Bones_> well, opengfx's rc has been out for a month so ship it. ;-)
03:57:26 <LordAro> nor could i ship it, even if i wanted to :p
03:58:11 <ST2> well, a simple "Check online content" click and update to OpenGFX there solves it
03:58:21 <ST2> we had many players complaining the same
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04:01:53 <supermop> my bump map is not nearly bumpy enough
04:02:40 <Supercheese> who put the bump map in the bump bump map map
04:10:39 <Pikka> it's quite nice. I discovered it at uni this year, it's used by a lot of artists
04:11:20 <Pikka> and then it turned out my father has multiple books on it from when he was doing fine arts at uni a few years back :)
04:13:32 <Supercheese> I'm surprised how compact the code examples are in relation to their graphical outputs
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05:11:42 <TartarusMkII> Hi guys, I have a question. Trains drop (not transfer) iron ore to a station that (among some other things) has a steel mill attached to it, but sometimes the steel mill says it has 0 production the prior month, and there's a lot of iron ore piling up in the station.
05:11:52 <TartarusMkII> Is it possible the steel mill just can't use it all? Or what might be happening?
05:14:46 <ST2> well, if the Iron ore getting on the station, means you having an unload order there and the station not close enough to industry to be accepted, I think ^^
05:15:43 <TartarusMkII> Does the entire station trade in these items, or only certain platforms? The station itself sprawls a bit with some other platforms of train station to reach other industries to include them
05:15:46 <TartarusMkII> does that not work as I thought?
05:28:34 <ChrisM> If the station says it accepts iron ore, that seems odd
05:30:47 <TartarusMkII> Yea, I restarted my game anyway just to play the early game some more.
05:31:25 <TartarusMkII> I am curious, if I build a small train station on the outer edge of a city, then attach a bus station to that station located in the core, does that give the train station the ability to make use of the population of all the area that bus stop adds?
05:32:14 <TartarusMkII> I mean, I could but I feel like it's too silly to warrant asking any of you to take the time to load it up ^^;
05:32:26 <TartarusMkII> I appreciate it though. I'll keep in mind I can post the sav files if something /really/ goes wrong. lol
05:32:50 <ChrisM> If I understood your question about the bus, I think the answer is yes
05:32:59 <ChrisM> It extends the range of the station
05:33:13 <Sylf> for something like the iron ore station, the sav file would tell us more what's exactly going on
05:33:17 <TartarusMkII> okay awesome.Game gets a lot easier that way, I'd even say that could be overpowered some.
05:33:32 <Sylf> is it the order issue, is it the station acceptance issue, is it the newgrf issue...
05:33:36 <TartarusMkII> Sylf: I appreciate it; if it happens again I'll make note of it and make the sav file for us to look at.
05:34:27 <TartarusMkII> Also, I am wondering, what makes a local authority hate me? I built up a lumber industry outside a city to start building it up, but they ended up barring me from continuing. But I wonder why?
05:37:04 <Sylf> you destroy the trees around the city, and they'll grow feelings against you more and more
05:37:53 <Sylf> bombing the trees, laying rails, stations, roads etc, they all count against authority ratings
05:38:07 <TartarusMkII> oh huh okay, that's interesting
05:38:14 <TartarusMkII> I forgot I could plant trees to make them happy
05:38:51 <TartarusMkII> I read that cities grow faster, but there are no towns in my game that have "city" in the name. Is that an attribute they gain over time, or something?
05:39:17 <Sylf> you'll need to open each town detail window
05:39:33 <Sylf> They'll have (City) notation after the town/city name in that window title
05:39:57 <Sylf> so you have to check them one by one
05:40:11 <Sylf> no matter how small, they can be a city
05:40:19 <Sylf> and no matter how huge, they can be non-city
05:40:40 <Sylf> and they don't "become" a city no matter what
05:45:02 <TartarusMkII> Oh okay let's see.
05:45:13 <TartarusMkII> Oh okay gotcha. Thanks!
06:16:56 <supermop> stones must be bumpier to show up at tt scale:
06:40:26 <supermop> minnesota vikings stadia grf?
06:42:59 <kamnet> Almost everybody is likable, but almost all of them are horrible.
06:44:54 <Supercheese> they would fit OTTD much better than Vikings
06:45:28 <Supercheese> I'd need to make a larger seaplane port though, they are bestially huge planes
06:47:17 <Supercheese> larger than the Pan Am Clippers
06:53:17 <kamnet> So now that I'm done with ekranoplans... oh, wait, here's one...
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06:56:30 <kamnet> 20 actual prototypes and productions, 32 concept vehicle.
06:57:37 <kamnet> Giving you a playable range from 1963 to at least 2018. Longer if you wanna give those concept vehicles some numbers.
06:59:58 <kamnet> Could probably use some revamping.
07:03:21 <kamnet> Not a bad rendering. A bit small though
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07:45:39 <kamnet> So, now that I'm REALLY done with ekranoplans, I guess flying boats are next.
08:03:38 <supermop> it seems that bump maps just cant get as bumpy as i want
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08:11:32 <Supercheese> I bought a great book on seaplanes from the local used bookstore
08:15:05 <supermop> never heard of this one before:
08:16:13 <Supercheese> got an entry for the P6M in my book here
08:16:44 <Supercheese> decidedly not a passenger craft though
08:17:03 <andythenorth> the Mars is epic
08:17:06 <Supercheese> seaplane with 686 mph top speed though
08:18:13 <Supercheese> I love how that wiki page for the Mars references a Bruce Cockburn song I listen to often :)
08:19:22 <kamnet> Looks like I can get my own copy for cheap too
08:20:14 <kamnet> A few years ago I picked a copy of The Historical Atlas of North American Railroadds. Pretty heavy thing. Keep it at my desk.
08:20:38 <Supercheese> "42 used from$0.06"
08:20:54 <Supercheese> ha, pretty cheap if true - always that darn shipping though
08:23:05 <Supercheese> always wanted a PBY Catalina in OTTD, for the eyecandy
08:23:26 <Supercheese> the airfield near where I grew up had three or four of the things in the associated aviation museum
08:23:42 <Supercheese> I was immediately enamored of them as a kid
08:26:12 <supermop> any point in amphibious helicopters?
08:26:32 <supermop> land next to an oilrig instead of on it?
08:26:32 <Supercheese> double stepped sea hull
08:26:47 <Supercheese> giant parasol wing
08:26:51 <kamnet> And yes, we need more whirlybirds
08:27:06 <Supercheese> retractable wing floats
08:27:32 <Supercheese> and the teardrop blisters that houses the waist guns on the military versions
08:27:53 <supermop> need more flying wings as well
08:27:55 <Supercheese> also the landing gear for the amphibious version
08:36:29 <kamnet> what stats need tracked for planes?
08:38:17 <andythenorth> ugh, stupid Recycling Plant
08:38:23 * andythenorth regrets everything
08:39:53 <Alberth> :O everything is a lot
08:40:35 * andythenorth regrets nearly everything :P
08:40:54 * andythenorth especially regrets V453000
08:41:16 <kamnet> Well if the breweries were making the right amount of brew, andy, you could just be drinking your regrets away now. Couldn't you?
08:41:42 <V453000> cause I am starting to be able to do mass-stuff in RAWR very efficiently :)
08:41:46 <V453000> thousands of sprites automated =D
08:42:10 <Alberth> before you know it, you're out of work
08:42:22 <V453000> I wouldnt say that XD
08:42:33 <V453000> just started thinking about a RV set, still want to do DOOM, ....... :)
08:43:02 <Alberth> yeah I know, terribly busy to make yourself out of work always fails :p
08:43:56 <Supercheese> Hmm, I doubt andy could even load my save file, I use more than 64 grfs
08:44:57 <kamnet> Using more than 64 grfs is a sign of a BAD PLAYER
08:48:38 <Alberth> there are no bad players
08:49:06 <kamnet> Holy crap there's a freakin' ton of stats to track for planes
08:49:48 <Supercheese> Compared to other vehicles?
08:50:02 <kamnet> More than trams, anyhow
08:50:16 <Supercheese> I dunno they seem about the same to me
08:50:40 <Supercheese> aircraft seem to have less, even
08:51:00 <Supercheese> no power, no TE, no air drag (ironically)
08:52:49 <Supercheese> oh they separate the different flight stage speeds
08:52:54 <Supercheese> was not thinking of that
08:53:26 <Supercheese> that's optional by callback anyway, not strictly necessary to code them
08:54:02 <kamnet> Is it worth doing that though
08:54:23 <V453000> the air drag is one of the most ridiculous features in general
08:54:26 <Supercheese> Not every airport supports the "in holding pattern" flight state
08:54:33 <Supercheese> in fact, I think most airports do not
08:54:52 <Supercheese> so that one's mostly moot
08:55:26 <Supercheese> Fuel capacity and limited range are also purely optional and given a choice most players would disable it
08:55:41 <Supercheese> crew/doors/aisles are completely irrelevant in OTTD
08:55:57 <Supercheese> so yeah, not really that many stats
08:56:11 <Supercheese> one stat that does matter though isn't even mentioned there: acceleration
08:56:35 <V453000> why are you even tracking the stats kamnet? :0
08:57:03 <Supercheese> it's an existing WAS stat sheet
08:57:39 <Supercheese> well, I guess number of doors may translate into loading speed, but might as well track loading speed directly...
08:57:51 <Supercheese> no sense adding another layer of abstraction
08:58:15 <Supercheese> aircraft weight is also irrelevant
08:58:19 <kamnet> Well I'm sure WAS goes for the gusto when it comes to realism.
08:58:33 <Supercheese> to what end, I know not
08:58:41 <Supercheese> half of that sheet is useless for coding
08:58:58 <Supercheese> half of that half is purely optional to code
08:59:04 <kamnet> When helping w 2cc trams we tracked how many doors were on vehicles to help determine loading speed
08:59:10 <Supercheese> (the remaining half that is)
08:59:32 <Supercheese> IMO just track loading speed measured in Ticks to Fully Load
09:00:48 <Supercheese> hmm although its aircraft table doesn't have loading speed
09:02:23 <kamnet> top of the mornin to ya
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09:07:05 <kamnet> seems a lot more reasonable
09:08:25 <Supercheese> Runway is irrelevant for now, only difference is Small/Large
09:08:45 <Supercheese> the Efficiencies are derived values so you don't need to generate them
09:09:01 <Supercheese> only thing to add to that table is loading speed
09:09:07 <Supercheese> oh and acceleration
09:09:18 <planetmaker> changing vehicle stats for realism reasons often doesn't go too well with the game. And hardly is noticed when playing at all (I think)
09:13:52 <andythenorth> loading speed is bollocks mostly
09:13:59 <andythenorth> there’s no way for players to know
09:14:14 <andythenorth> although I use it for some vehicle types
09:14:22 <Supercheese> it can have a big impact though if the loading speeds are too slow
09:14:26 <Supercheese> vehicles take ages in station
09:14:29 <andythenorth> well yes, but that’s a bug
09:14:42 <andythenorth> design failure, not design feature :)
09:15:41 <planetmaker> players can know via extra text ;)
09:15:48 <planetmaker> something you remove(d) everywhere :P
09:16:01 <Supercheese> likewise there is still nontrivial differences between 5 ticks to fully load vs 1 tick to fully load
09:16:12 <andythenorth> extra text is nonsense :)
09:16:40 <andythenorth> hmm Squid has extra text
09:17:23 <Supercheese> how else do we know how many fish FISH ships holds hold?
09:17:44 <andythenorth> nor how many pickles
09:17:44 <V453000> andythenorth: NUTS players know about all loading speeds :P
09:18:03 <andythenorth> extra text prevents partial compiles via nfo
09:18:05 <Alberth> easy, if there is fish left at the station after departure, you need more vehicles :)
09:18:36 <andythenorth> the string IDs are unstable, so can’t be used in a partial compilation
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09:19:02 <Alberth> hmm, interesting reason to remove text :p
09:20:05 <andythenorth> it’s the reason it’s gone
09:20:15 <supermop> V453000: do you use bump maps?
09:20:15 <andythenorth> extra text is gameplay-neutral imho
09:20:24 <andythenorth> does no real benefit, no real harm
09:20:28 <Supercheese> well, as long as the information is SOMEwhere...
09:20:50 <andythenorth> no-one will ever know that hoppers unload faster in Iron Horse
09:20:57 <andythenorth> or that reefers have a payment bonus
09:21:06 <supermop> ive made the strongest possible bump map for these rocks and still looks too flat
09:21:23 <V453000> well then you can always use displacement map
09:21:28 <supermop> *stones not rocks i guess
09:21:52 <V453000> also, using actual texture of actual bumpy stones helps a TON
09:22:03 <V453000> instead of using flat texture and making displaced mesh
09:22:23 <supermop> but then shadows wrong most of the time...
09:22:36 <V453000> yeah, usually not visible
09:22:44 <supermop> no displament mapping in flamingo 2.0
09:22:45 <V453000> OR unwrap the model and photoshop them to be right :)
09:23:40 <V453000> blender has quite decent way of unwrapping
09:24:05 <V453000> I honestly think your software is limiting you
09:24:41 <supermop> trying to make the most out of t
09:25:00 <V453000> proper texture mapping is key
09:27:02 <supermop> seems so limiting though, to make a specific texture for each and every object
09:27:23 <V453000> well to some extent you can have universal textures
09:27:40 <V453000> but every time you want it to look really nice, it is worth it to spend a little bit of time with it
09:27:41 <supermop> damnit rhino 5 has displacement meshes...
09:30:14 <V453000> for example, I have read the rule "imperfection is perfection in 3D", and it works. every time you add leaks/scratches/rust/dust/other mess to your textures, it just throws it to a whole new level
09:30:47 <andythenorth> there must be a way to stabilise the string IDs
09:31:11 <andythenorth> stuff a UID for the vehicle into a temp register at compile time
09:31:26 <andythenorth> have a single global switch for returning buy menu extra text
09:31:35 <andythenorth> look up the vehicle UID in that switch
09:31:55 * andythenorth wonders just how random nmlcs random string ID assignment is
09:32:11 <andythenorth> iirc, it is wholly random
09:33:16 <andythenorth> stable for vehicle IDs
09:33:36 <andythenorth> that’s why my current compile approach worked for vehicle names, and using string cbs fails
09:33:53 <andythenorth> nml/actions/action4.py L69 or so
09:35:28 <supermop> i obviously need this:
09:37:21 * andythenorth wonders why the changing string IDs don’t cause ottd to barf
09:37:44 <andythenorth> when I was writing nfo, changing strings seemed to cause ottd to sick up all over my shoes
09:54:57 <chillcore> also good morning interwebz o/
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10:12:33 <andythenorth> what % is that? o_O
10:15:23 <DorpsGek> Supercheese: 0.333333333333
10:17:51 <chillcore> @calc 0.333333333333 * 3
10:18:00 <V453000> soooo andythenorth what new features do we get? :)
10:18:08 <chillcore> almost done andy ;)
10:18:48 <andythenorth> V453000: I remove some stuff
10:19:11 <andythenorth> also I stop running out of IDs
10:19:21 <andythenorth> and maybe the codebase gets a lot smaller
10:19:41 <andythenorth> random output cargos at the Recycling Plant, that has to die, yes?
10:19:45 <V453000> I still need to play a game with the latest firs :(
10:19:47 <andythenorth> I only did it to fuck with people
10:19:55 <V453000> I also need to finish rawr and everything
10:20:06 <V453000> well it isnt nice yeah
10:20:09 <andythenorth> and feed the cats and have babies and make a career
10:20:16 <V453000> it just doesnt do nice stuff to have random cargo
10:20:43 <Alberth> tram track look so ugly, with all those poles
10:21:08 <andythenorth> there are better versions in grfs
10:21:12 <andythenorth> I think pikka did one
10:21:15 <Supercheese> foobar's tram tracks eh
10:21:28 <andythenorth> but yes *especially* with steam trams :P
10:21:59 <Supercheese> well just make the wires invisible with transparency setting
10:22:06 <Supercheese> then re-enable them when electric trams come out
10:22:26 <Supercheese> simple workaround really
10:23:56 <andythenorth> another great workaround I like is the money cheat
10:24:02 <andythenorth> works around having no money at game start
10:27:01 <andythenorth> another good cheat
10:27:06 <andythenorth> when there isn’t a vehicle in the game I want
10:27:21 * andythenorth might be trolling
10:27:29 * andythenorth would like the option to build wires / not wires
10:27:36 <Supercheese> would indeed be nice
10:27:43 <Supercheese> no support for that yet though
10:28:24 <andythenorth> roadtypes are never happening
10:28:40 <Supercheese> combinatorial expansion nightmares
10:28:48 <andythenorth> prioritising theoretical perfection over getting things done
10:28:55 <Supercheese> what should be layerable with what and what not...
10:29:15 <andythenorth> it’s all nonsense
10:29:38 <andythenorth> road powered / road not powered
10:29:58 <andythenorth> make it a toggle on road-building toolbar, like one-way
10:34:43 <andythenorth> just a bit on a tile
10:35:42 <andythenorth> FIRS brewery flag isn’t animated
10:38:41 <chillcore> de wapper vlagt niet ... *sniff*
10:39:04 <chillcore> ^^^ for the dutchies xD
10:39:38 * andythenorth can now speak dutch
10:41:18 <chillcore> kinda hard to translate ... hmm
10:42:17 <chillcore> the wave does not flag ... *sniff* ??
10:46:08 <chillcore> "the sign does not flag" ... would be a more correct tranlsation
10:48:03 <chillcore> roadtypes would be cool though xD
10:48:20 * chillcore goes to shaking brainz to tha beat
10:49:49 <andythenorth> roadtypes would suck
10:50:28 <chillcore> I'd love me some dirty roads
10:50:53 <chillcore> for industrieal terrains
10:51:22 <andythenorth> you’d get bored and upgrade them
10:51:30 <andythenorth> we always build big + fast
10:51:44 <chillcore> nah ... you do em as eyecandy
10:51:55 <chillcore> move on the next place when done
10:53:06 <chillcore> you place a sign near your industry so you rebuild it later
10:53:30 <chillcore> or disable them vanishing all toghether ...
10:53:40 <chillcore> anyhoo they would look cool
10:54:16 <chillcore> anyhoo ... lot's of work
10:54:57 <chillcore> then you could has trams and monorail at the same time o_O
10:56:06 <chillcore> on the vehicle (newgrf) side nothing changes ... that is one less thing to worry bout
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12:25:41 <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r27223 trunk/config.lib (2015-04-11 12:25:36 +0200 )
12:25:42 <DorpsGek> -Add [FS#6274]: Support for DragonflyBSD (AMDmi3)
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12:47:22 <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r27224 trunk/config.lib (2015-04-11 12:47:20 +0200 )
12:47:23 <DorpsGek> -Cleanup: Duplicate #ifdef for FreeBSD (AMDim3)
12:48:34 <TrueBrain> the cleanup is to duplicate? :D
12:55:25 <frosch123> yeah, such a throw-away mentality
12:55:30 <frosch123> instead of cleaning the old one, buy a new one
13:08:12 * frosch123 likes the forum topic about "congestion problems"
13:08:25 <frosch123> "serious congestion problems" even
13:09:48 <supermop> beer time has evolved into rye time
13:09:54 <supermop> anyone used shapeways?
13:27:40 <frosch123> the "bundle" target of nml looks weird
13:27:46 <frosch123> what is this buildout thing?
13:27:52 <frosch123> it does not seem to produce anything useful
13:30:40 <planetmaker> buildout might be somewhat bitrotten
13:31:00 <frosch123> yes, i think "delete" is the fix here
13:31:10 <planetmaker> anyhow, mostly setup.py is used to create the bundles for nml
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13:40:06 <frosch123> also removes some weird license :)
13:40:46 <Alberth> a zillion-1 to go before it can be removed from the internetz
13:50:04 <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r27225 trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp (2015-04-11 13:50:02 +0200 )
13:50:05 <DorpsGek> -Change [FS#6262]: Be more lenient about road stop removal when at least one stop could be removed (afd88)
13:51:48 <frosch123> planetmaker: i tried to make a distribution with setuptools
13:52:23 <frosch123> but the bundle name is nml-0.4.1.r5579-38eee7e4b652.tar.gz instead of nml-0.4.1.tar.gz
13:52:29 <frosch123> (i made a tag locally)
13:52:45 <planetmaker> yes, that's another issue maintainers complain about. We should change that
13:52:58 <frosch123> ok, i thought your pep440 thingie was about that :)
13:53:19 <planetmaker> not sure it affects the filename
13:53:27 <planetmaker> it checked the reported version
14:08:02 <frosch123> yay, nml-0.4.1.tar.gz
14:10:40 <Rubidium> do I smell a 0.5.2 release there?
14:11:34 <heffer> i only take working releases this time :P
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14:12:21 * Rubidium wonders whether catcodec still compiles
14:19:44 <frosch123> planetmaker: do we want to keep the "next_release_version" at all?
14:19:54 <frosch123> i changed it so it is not used for tags
14:20:08 <frosch123> how about replacing it just with "dev" ?
14:21:39 <frosch123> "nml 0.4.1", "nml dev.v5579:bf15cd22a3a2 from 2015-04-11"
14:21:44 <frosch123> hmm, or just empty?
14:21:55 <frosch123> "nml 0.4.1", "nml v5579:bf15cd22a3a2 from 2015-04-11"
14:24:02 <Alberth> empty seems fine to me
14:42:22 <frosch123> planetmaker: i think nml 0.4.1 is ready (except for obvious readme and changelog updates)
14:42:48 <frosch123> i made a local tag and bundle, installed it in a vm and compiled xussr
14:43:09 <frosch123> (it's really hard to find a grf that does not require gimp or other tool mayhem)
14:55:26 <frosch123> opengfx also looks fine to me
14:55:41 <frosch123> bundle names and make bananas look fine when tagged
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15:54:17 <Elukka> so i had one station for a secondary industry, and eventually split that up into a dropoff and loading station
15:55:03 <Elukka> cargo is no longer being picked up from the original (now dropoff) station but half of it is still put there by the industry, never to be picked up
15:55:07 <Elukka> is that gonna resolve itself?
15:55:33 <Alberth> for a new enough openttd, yes
16:00:55 <Elukka> i'm on a very recent nightly
16:01:12 <Alberth> should be ok in 21-ish months
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16:23:22 <Elukka> love how all the little edge case quibbles get fixed over the years
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16:54:39 <Alberth> chillcore: swapped 30 and 40, and simplified 30, mostly
16:54:40 <planetmaker> frosch123, I'll try look at nml again tomorrow and then possibly release it. Thanks for your work on it
16:56:58 <chillcore> I am looking at the commit messages Alberth.
16:57:19 <chillcore> order matters little here ;)
16:57:36 <chillcore> except for the later tuning that is ;)
16:57:37 <Alberth> codechange is literally doing the same thing with different code
16:58:18 <Alberth> so some of your codechange aren't by our definition
16:59:04 <chillcore> quite positive on that
17:00:15 <frosch123> i do not quite agree with 40
17:00:35 <frosch123> same issue we discussed last week
17:00:40 <chillcore> feel free to adjust or ask me adjust ... whatever comes first
17:01:07 <chillcore> yes it kinda is frosh but not really
17:01:31 <frosch123> there is no rule for relative height, doing a partial adjustment for rainforest does not lead to a general solution
17:01:55 <chillcore> there is no partial adjustment goint on ...
17:02:11 <chillcore> before it was 16 / 4
17:02:19 <chillcore> at mapstart and never changed
17:02:19 <frosch123> how about adding a new setting variable, and assign TGPGetMaxHeight to it during generation
17:02:36 <Alberth> you decide on tile-kind during mapgen, and changing actual height afterwards has no effect
17:02:38 <frosch123> then use that "setting" for all of rainforest/desert/newgrf snowline
17:02:43 <chillcore> I could re-ad tthat yes
17:03:01 <chillcore> lost a bit ... woops
17:03:18 <frosch123> with "setting variable" i mean something like the generation seed, so not real user setting, but something from mapgen that is stored during the game
17:03:24 <frosch123> and accessible during the game
17:03:26 <chillcore> now it just reads toptile at mapgen and set it to a qurter
17:04:10 <chillcore> as it is now you get sandy dunes
17:04:24 <frosch123> if the user snowline setting would be changed to a percentage, it could also make use of that
17:04:28 <chillcore> is maxheigt is at 60 and you generate a map at 30
17:04:58 <chillcore> that is what I tried to say before
17:05:12 <frosch123> 60 should use BEGIN and END-1 in settings.ini
17:05:21 <chillcore> they all depend on one value and they should have their own
17:05:25 <frosch123> otherwise there is no point in the patch :p
17:05:53 <chillcore> I will not argue with that
17:07:42 <Alberth> good point @ 60, fixed
17:08:47 <frosch123> 50: "very flat" is for the douchebags who want no slopes at all. so increasing it to 15 will result in a feature request for veryveryflat
17:09:32 <chillcore> feel free to halve the values
17:11:22 <Alberth> chillcore: only the 1st line?
17:11:36 <frosch123> amplitudes_middle is only used for one map size? :o
17:12:19 <Alberth> { 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 5, 7 }, ///< Very flat
17:12:26 <chillcore> yeah 512 an akwerd kid
17:12:35 <chillcore> that looks good alberth
17:12:59 <chillcore> 7 is on the big maps only
17:14:13 <chillcore> frosh: later I may have some way to store presets per smallest madside
17:14:31 <chillcore> 64 is kinda hard to get right too
17:14:47 <chillcore> but i did not want to overwhelm you :P
17:15:18 * chillcore does not have that code yet
17:15:45 <Alberth> frosch123: if I want to have a nice tropical map, sometimes high and sometimes flat, I have to change a non-user variable?
17:16:05 <Alberth> note that the tile kind isn't changed afterwards anymore, unlike eg snowyness
17:16:54 <chillcore> could be made variable seperate from snowline ... at mapgen
17:17:30 <frosch123> Alberth: question is whether a flat map should have rainforrest at all
17:17:31 <Alberth> you can have a variable, but it just shifts the problem from computing a value to having to set one manually
17:17:57 <frosch123> Alberth: the point of the variable is that you can use it in three places that require a height reference
17:18:15 <chillcore> we could treat it like water
17:18:42 <Alberth> ah, a % of rain forest? sounds nice
17:18:46 <frosch123> the assumption of the patch is that the max_height setting is not useful to define high and low
17:19:05 <frosch123> but the same applies to various other places where max_height is used
17:19:21 <Alberth> I don't disagree with the latter at all
17:20:17 <Alberth> a percentage of tiles could work
17:20:43 <frosch123> i see no difference between rainforest and snowline
17:20:46 <chillcore> dependant on generated top tile thank you very much indeed
17:20:54 <frosch123> sure you can change the height of a tile during gameplay
17:21:00 <frosch123> and that may or remove snow
17:21:04 <frosch123> but it does not affect the snowline
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17:21:20 <chillcore> right because they are different climates
17:21:31 <frosch123> the snowline is either a fixed height or a yearly curve in *percentage of max mapheight*
17:21:39 <Alberth> the trick is that the snowline should be a percentage of tiles
17:21:54 <Alberth> of generated height imho
17:22:01 <chillcore> inf the player goes higher .... assign snow by defautlt
17:22:28 <chillcore> the variation happens lower so ...
17:22:47 <chillcore> maybe dissalow going lower sure
17:22:50 <Alberth> and probably 2 variables, my rain forest percentage has little to do with snowline
17:23:04 <frosch123> snowline in percentage of tiles sounds weird to me
17:23:24 <frosch123> that couples it to variety distribution and other weird things
17:23:46 <Alberth> it gives you a somewhat fixed amount of snow, no matter how high you make the mountains
17:24:08 <frosch123> that would be percentage of maxium uses height
17:24:43 <frosch123> percentage of tiles makes makes it depend on whether there are peaks or general high terrain
17:24:53 <Alberth> no, you start at max height snow, and repeatedly decrease snowline, until you have x% snowy tiles
17:25:27 <Alberth> it's the only thing that works equally for all map heights
17:26:08 <chillcore> yeah and newgrf always have that part to play with too
17:26:08 <frosch123> well, assuming you want snow-capped mountains: in the %-height case you set it to 70%. in the %-tiles case you set it to something weird like 2%
17:26:19 <frosch123> you have to guess how many mountains there would be
17:26:31 <chillcore> set to 110 and poof snow is gone ;)
17:26:50 <Alberth> with 70% you break it fully by changing max height
17:26:52 <chillcore> untill you raise a mountain high enough haha
17:26:57 <frosch123> and yes, it would make the user-snowline very different to newgrf snoeline
17:27:33 <Alberth> I don't disagree with that either :)
17:27:43 <frosch123> Alberth: if using the current max_height, but not when using TGPGetMaxHeight
17:27:49 <Alberth> but we're handling rain forests now
17:29:23 <Alberth> ok, I just want something that works for all map heights without having to magically tweak some value
17:29:31 <frosch123> ok, if you change desert and rainforest to %-tiles, we do not need a solution for snow yet :p
17:30:27 <frosch123> assignnig desert and rainforest to height has always been weird anyway, and very confusing for players
17:30:48 <frosch123> so, if you can make it use the fractional heights instead of rounded heights, that would be even better :p
17:31:19 <frosch123> because ttd had no terrain type setting in arctic and tropic
17:31:29 <frosch123> it was fixed at hilly and flat
17:31:42 <Alberth> yep, hard-coding the solution worked nicely then :)
17:31:43 <frosch123> so, it has not been working since ottd 0.5 :p
17:32:25 <Alberth> chillcore: want to try the above proposal?
17:33:03 <Alberth> have rainforests as a fractional percentage of tiles?
17:33:05 <chillcore> adding three prestes and a custom setting for desert based on percentage of generated height ... sure?
17:33:36 <frosch123> two settings :) desert and rainforest
17:34:06 <Alberth> desert == all that's not forest and not sea, right?
17:34:20 <frosch123> no, there are 3 terrain types
17:34:22 <chillcore> hmm setting-ception
17:34:24 <frosch123> or 4 if you count sea
17:34:38 <frosch123> sea - normal - desert - rainforest
17:34:44 <frosch123> desert has min distance to sea
17:34:49 <frosch123> rainforest has min heightlevel
17:35:01 <chillcore> yes and fro river too ... they sharethe 4
17:35:23 <frosch123> we have no percentage setting for rivers :p
17:35:31 <frosch123> haha, make the map 70% rivers :)
17:36:00 <chillcore> rough terrain makes them hard to spawn
17:36:25 <frosch123> rough terrain is ugly anyway
17:36:29 <chillcore> autosloping rivers is for laters maybe
17:36:34 <frosch123> it even says so in the description
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17:40:10 <frosch123> Alberth: just commit the rest of it? :p
17:40:25 <frosch123> it's independent from the other stuff, isn't it?
17:40:39 <Elukka> five bauxite mines at quadruple production in FIRS.. that's.. that's a lot of ore
17:41:00 <Alberth> Elukka: quadruple IS a lot more :)
17:41:08 <Alberth> frosch123: good idea, seems like it
17:41:44 <Alberth> supplies can make a huge mess in the network :)
17:42:04 <chillcore> <Alberth> desert == all that's not forest and not sea, right? desert starts at 4 tiles way from water ... the whole map, then tropical forest starts at that level and makes everything above forest
17:42:44 <Alberth> ok, will commit everything except 40 then later tonight, unless you have trouble with that chillcore
17:43:05 <chillcore> I just downloaded your zip
17:43:19 <chillcore> will have a looksie
17:44:42 <chillcore> you want to set it in tiles like snowline is now or in percentage off? for custom that is
17:45:24 <Alberth> snowline is a problem, as newgrf already has a definition of that
17:46:00 <Alberth> we settled on percentage of tiles for rainforest
17:46:16 <Alberth> where you can set it more precise than 1%
17:47:05 <Alberth> then it still fits in int16
17:47:44 <frosch123> chillcore: like sea lvel
17:47:48 <Alberth> frosch123: and also a percentage of desert?
17:48:10 <chillcore> yeah sea level is what I meant before
17:48:11 <frosch123> sea level is determined with the fractional heights, before rounding it to integer heights
17:48:20 <Alberth> ie we drop the fixed distance 'normal' tiles
17:48:39 <frosch123> Alberth: the fixed distance is also ugly for bigger maps :p
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17:49:02 <chillcore> intead of calling it desert line I could call it forest line ... :P
17:49:05 <frosch123> so, imho: normal = 100% - sea - desert - rainforest
17:49:08 <Alberth> hmm, you may want to check what multiplier sea level uses, and use the same thing chillcore
17:49:18 <Alberth> fair enough frosch123
17:49:21 <frosch123> with the restriction sea + desert + rainforest < 95%
17:49:59 <Alberth> and a desert percentage too then
17:50:16 <chillcore> dersert does not work that way
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17:51:01 <chillcore> at mapgen sandman said: let there be sand and there was sand
17:51:27 <Alberth> the question is, can it be changed like we'd like, chillcore?
17:51:40 <Alberth> I have no idea if that can be done, or how difficult it is
17:51:46 <chillcore> then the foresty bits are coloured in
17:51:57 <Alberth> so please have a look
17:53:01 <Starbud> i have an issue about the mouse in OTTD, it seem to not want to register all inputs from the mouse when playing OTTD, works fine in other programs
17:53:18 <Starbud> any ideas as to why this happen?
17:53:38 <chillcore> Alberth: either you have a desert line or you have a tropical line ... adding both and saying there is line is ...
17:53:51 <Alberth> may be a SDL1 problem Starbud
17:54:17 <Starbud> i'm sorry, i dont know what SDL1 is
17:54:23 <chillcore> the forests around water is a seperate value
17:54:39 <chillcore> you can think of it as a line on the terrain ....
17:54:51 <chillcore> I see it tha way anyways
17:54:55 <Alberth> hmm, ok. Line is not moveable ?
17:55:20 <Alberth> Starbud: it's the video/mouse library that we use
17:56:01 <Starbud> oh i see, i assume this is an rare problem?
17:56:15 <chillcore> Anberth: but we ara not talking about the same value I guess
17:56:19 <Starbud> is there something i can do about it?
17:56:42 <Alberth> Starbud: I think so, I don't remember seeing such a report
17:57:45 <Starbud> ok, i think i'll ask in the forum to see if anyone else has noticed it
17:58:39 <Alberth> Starbud: you can search for other people with the same problem, the forum is one option, but eg SDL1 and your machine or your windows version may give some hits in google
17:58:58 <chillcore> Albert: the value that sets the terrain around water is one value; the one that seperates desert from tropical forest is another one; only the latter is bound to height
17:58:59 <Alberth> you can also search bugs.openttd.org, but I doubt there is anything there
17:59:30 <Starbud> oh, i'll try that first
18:00:29 <Alberth> chillcore: how is the latter defined? you only want to be able to change it
18:00:56 <Alberth> eg can I increase it by 1 or so?
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18:01:22 <chillcore> it reads maxheight in trunk
18:02:24 <Alberth> hmm, wrong value, it seems
18:02:50 <Alberth> the value that sets the terrain around water is one value <-- this one needs to be changeable, I think
18:03:37 <Alberth> increase/decrease it, until we have a good percentage of desert
18:04:42 <Alberth> if feasible, else we need another solution
18:04:55 <chillcore> how do we want to call this magic bugger ... tropical desert line or desert line?
18:05:20 <chillcore> tropical forest* doh
18:06:15 <chillcore> having both of them at he same time will cause fights over the border
18:06:18 <Alberth> desert line seems fine to me
18:19:20 <Samu> do lumber mills actually spawn in openttd?
18:19:45 <Samu> did they spawn in ttdlx?
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19:45:20 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27226 trunk/src/lang/latin.txt (2015-04-11 19:45:16 +0200 )
19:45:21 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:45:22 <DorpsGek> latin - 10 changes by Supercheese
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20:21:44 <Starbud> Alberth i think you might be on to something about that mouse issue, some other people have the issue in other games, i tried a solution for high DPI mouses that get scaled wrong, it did give a wierd effect that the mouse now works in one direction but the same as before in the other directions
20:22:21 <Starbud> i'll do some more testing later
20:22:35 <Starbud> just if you happen to remember it if someone else ask
20:22:54 <Starbud> not sure what good it will do tho :(
20:23:10 <Alberth> me neither, I don't even have windows
20:23:33 <Alberth> I hope it works for you
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20:41:44 <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r27227 trunk/src/tgp.cpp (2015-04-11 20:41:41 +0200 )
20:41:45 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Initialise map at level 0 instead of -32k (chillcore)
20:42:50 <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r27228 trunk/src/tgp.cpp (2015-04-11 20:42:48 +0200 )
20:42:51 <DorpsGek> -Change: Slightly more water in the non-custom sea levels (chillcore)
20:43:33 <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r27229 trunk/src/tgp.cpp (2015-04-11 20:43:30 +0200 )
20:43:34 <DorpsGek> -Change: Generate more detailed curves at the coast (chillcore)
20:44:32 <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r27230 trunk/src/tgp.cpp (2015-04-11 20:44:26 +0200 )
20:44:33 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Tune down terrain generation to reduce amount of long slopes (chillcore)
20:45:24 <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r27231 /trunk/src (genworld.h table/settings.ini) (2015-04-11 20:45:18 +0200 )
20:45:25 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Replace magic numbers for the smoothness setting (chillcore)
20:46:08 <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r27232 trunk/src/tgp.cpp (2015-04-11 20:46:01 +0200 )
20:46:09 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Tweak noise generator more precisely for different map sizes (chillcore)
20:47:53 <Alberth> and thanks for your work chillcore
20:56:38 <chillcore> Alberth: you're welcome.
20:59:32 <chillcore> I will do that forest around water (configuarble) in tiles; it makes more sense there? the other value can still be a percentage of generated height
21:00:56 <Alberth> terra genesis procedure
21:01:13 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
21:02:30 <Rubidium> this great procrastinator?
21:06:58 <Samu> ok gonna generate a 4096x4096 map with this new version
21:07:54 <chillcore> ohoh ... samu's gonna break me shizz :P
21:08:39 <Samu> i think i put too much water
21:11:00 <Samu> it can create more than 5000 towns apparently, but when setting a custom number it's limited to 5000
21:12:12 <Alberth> you bought too many CPUs
21:12:52 <Samu> ok im gonna generate 8 maps
21:15:20 <Samu> meh, just 4, one for each climate
21:17:30 <Samu> alpinist not really alpinist :(
21:17:38 <chillcore> maybe lower that amount of industries and towns on such large maps ;)
21:17:55 <chillcore> also alpinist and very rough maybe?
21:18:49 <chillcore> and disable variation for a sec too
21:19:18 <chillcore> that should spice things up a notch xD
21:20:02 <Samu> arctic very flat looks literally very flat indeed, strange to look at it
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21:22:58 <Samu> ah i see what was wrong, map height was 15
21:24:11 <Samu> desert has still too much desert in my opinion
21:24:21 <Samu> not many rainforest areas
21:24:33 <Rubidium> Samu: that's realistic since we're currently trading rainforest for desert in any case
21:25:35 <Samu> there's a concentration of rainforest industries in tight places
21:25:53 <Samu> rubber plants, farms, fruit plants
21:26:19 <Samu> and then there's a very sparse desert only industries
21:28:39 <Samu> gonna try different settings
21:30:15 <Samu> looking at toyland, there's much more rivers now indeed
21:33:04 <Samu> i dunno why ice isn't spawning, brb
21:33:40 <Samu> oh, i see, this combination of settings isn't good
21:33:42 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r27233 trunk/src/3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel/sqapi.cpp (2015-04-11 21:33:36 +0200 )
21:33:43 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6272]: crash when no AIs were installed due to improper handling of non-ASCII characters by the string pointer lexer
21:36:11 <Samu> there seems to be much less water hops the bigger the map
21:36:27 <Samu> it's either a big ocean, or rivers
21:36:57 <Samu> in contrast, there's much more rivers now
21:38:05 <chillcore> my prefered setting is hilly samu ;)
21:38:38 <Samu> ok, gonna try hilly for arctic
21:39:14 <chillcore> rivers: because they have more flat tile to flow
21:44:04 <Samu> ah, the maps look better the smaller they are
21:46:32 <Samu> was there any change to original?
21:49:19 <Samu> towns being split in half because of these many rivers
21:49:31 <Samu> road grid isn't all that good
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21:50:31 <Samu> desert seems to have become poorer now
21:50:36 <chillcore> the original terraingenerator is still there
21:50:57 <Samu> it's almost all of the terrain is desert, about 90%/10%
21:51:17 <chillcore> working on that desert samu ... you'll have presets and custom values
21:52:58 <Samu> well, very flat with no variety distribution and a 4096 map looks very.... noobish-like
21:53:14 <Samu> feels like a flat map created in the scenario editor lol
21:53:38 <Alberth> it's called very flat for a reason :p
21:54:15 <Samu> really, no water, except rivers
21:54:59 <Samu> 512x512 looks like a good size
21:55:22 <Alberth> quite playable for a single player
21:55:47 <chillcore> To claim an STD_NULL in the savegame ... from 143 or 144 or 195 ?? been a while I did this ...
21:55:50 <Alberth> and you don't get lost all the time :p
21:56:08 <Samu> i think there's bad water distribution now
21:56:33 <Alberth> chillcore: sorry, no idea
21:56:55 <Samu> just that water is now in a all or nothing, barelly any spots
21:57:34 <Alberth> very flat and water doesn't go well together perhaps?
21:58:08 <Samu> i mean the water is all concentrated in a huge spot
21:58:21 <Samu> and wherever is land, there's barelly any hops of water
21:58:47 <Alberth> add some variety distribution?
21:58:55 <chillcore> you'll have more freedom over that with the tgen gui version
21:59:25 <chillcore> and variety ... and mapborders
21:59:44 <chillcore> lots of things to play with
22:00:18 <chillcore> also 256 * 1024 is an option
22:00:38 <Alberth> yeah, that's quite fun
22:00:52 <Samu> oh, variety seems to be doing wonders for water hops
22:02:34 <Samu> low water level + very high variety = quite a lot of water though, I wonder what happens with high water lvl
22:04:30 <chillcore> presets got a bit of a boost for to generate nicer maps in more cases
22:04:34 <Samu> strange i was expecting more islands
22:04:52 <chillcore> custom water levels are available
22:05:27 <Samu> desert still takes the majority of terran
22:06:09 <Samu> ok, i guess I like it, just have to play a bit with it to get familiarized
22:06:27 <Samu> desert however, looks worse overall, compared to what it was
22:06:38 <Samu> there's much less rainforest now
22:07:00 <Alberth> yep, we are aware of the problem
22:07:07 <Samu> or i didn't find the ideal ... ok
22:07:27 <Alberth> it's due to max height of the map, which has become somewhat meaning less
22:07:55 <Samu> arctic seems to have benefited most from this
22:07:56 <Alberth> we need a new way to specify this
22:08:49 <chillcore> samu: desert: increase to mountainaise for now ;)
22:11:18 <Samu> i'm not too familiar with toyland, it's been a while since i played it, but i remember some industries requiring special height levels
22:11:33 <Samu> a quick glance seems fine, but... i have to play toyland i guess
22:11:38 <chillcore> I suppose we want gui options for these two values?
22:11:58 <Samu> think it was the bubbles industry
22:12:13 <chillcore> or will settings gui do?
22:12:35 <chillcore> I would like to banish max_height there too ...
22:12:57 <chillcore> in time ... one thing at a time xD
22:15:32 <Alberth> don't remember special industries in toyland
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22:41:57 <jjavaholic> when the openttd wiki says "Town growth can be accelerated by loading and unloading at least one item of cargo at up to five stations" under town growth what does it mean it real terms like what is a unit of Cargo?
22:42:47 <frosch123> 1 passenger, 1 bag of mail, 1 ton of coal, 1000 litres of oil
22:43:06 <frosch123> 1 unit means just "anything at all"
22:44:11 <FLHerne> That should be "...at each of up to five stations", really?
22:44:45 <frosch123> i means, just build 5 bus stops in a row, and send one bus on a circle route over them
22:44:48 <FLHerne> You don't need to drag the same unit of cargo through all the stations in succession, that would be silly
22:45:25 <FLHerne> Actually, is this load/unload from a vehicle (inc. transfers), or collect/drop from the station?
22:46:24 <frosch123> load 1 unit of cargo at 5 stations
22:46:36 <frosch123> does not matter whether you deliver it
22:46:50 <frosch123> you can also pick up the same unit and force-unload it again without delivering :p
22:47:33 <jjavaholic> it does kinda sound like cheating
22:47:42 <Samu> i just noticed i have land area information hiding aircraft 11
22:48:01 <frosch123> jjavaholic: then don't read up on game mechanics details
22:48:15 <frosch123> the only purpose of a site listing mechanics is to give hints how to exploit them
22:48:29 <frosch123> also, it's "exploiting", not "cheating"
22:50:08 <jjavaholic> I wasn't judging. So from a town of 0 population I'm better with a filler station or transfering from a city regularly than two 0 population towns?
22:50:27 <jjavaholic> with trains that can hold more cargo?
22:50:57 <frosch123> a town with 0 population does not produce any passengers
22:51:10 <frosch123> other than that the population has no influence on growth
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22:53:31 <Samu> i really have to focus 1 thing at a time
22:56:10 <Samu> ok, bridge over lock is my next job
23:01:04 <Samu> if (IsBridgeAbove(tile) || IsBridgeAbove(tile - delta) || IsBridgeAbove(tile + delta)) {
23:01:16 <Samu> got to split this in 3 parts
23:03:18 <Samu> starting with the easier part
23:03:43 <Samu> tile - delta will be hard I bet, it needs a bridge of at least 2 height difference
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23:22:24 <Samu> bah, slope height is hard to understand
23:22:30 <Samu> ok tile + delta is the easier one then
continue to next day ⏵
