IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-02-21
⏴ go to previous day
00:00:12 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd
00:12:08 <samu> i'm looking into road_map.h, comparing to water_map.h to learn what I'm supposed to create
00:18:53 <samu> I'm lost, it's a labyrinth
00:19:55 <samu> like a hierarchy of some sorts
00:20:50 <samu> how do i visualize this tree in visual studio?
00:22:46 <samu> eh, the program is not called "visual" studio for nothing
00:32:25 <samu> wow jesus, 90 degrees really hurt ships
00:41:48 <samu> looks like the problem is bigger than I had anticipated
00:42:33 <samu> building a ship depot on a river vs building a ship depot on a canal with no owner
00:43:33 <samu> it doesn't take the river as yours
01:01:30 <samu> i don't know how to do this
01:04:41 <samu> but there's 4 water types
01:06:24 <samu> iswater, iscanal, isriver, issea?
01:07:28 <samu> depot can be built in all of them
01:08:28 <samu> road and tram depots don't re-uses the road
01:10:16 <samu> then i read this m1 Bits 4..0: The owner of a tile can be either companies (human or AI) or "Game entities".
01:10:26 <samu> and i get lost, i dont understand
01:11:27 <samu> i need a very complex function apparently
01:11:40 <samu> ship depot got 2 water tiles
01:11:46 <Eddi|zuHause> samu: but opposing to roadtypes, different watertypes cannot be on the same tile
01:12:04 <samu> there's too many combinations of owners and class on those two tiles
01:12:12 <Eddi|zuHause> a tile can't be both canal and sea
01:12:59 <Eddi|zuHause> samu: but each tile has only ever two owners, water owner and depot owner. who cares whether the other tile is the same?
01:15:18 <Eddi|zuHause> the bridge is not actually on the tile
01:15:48 <glx> only bridge ends have an owner
01:15:58 <Eddi|zuHause> the bridge stores its owner on the end tile
01:17:14 <Eddi|zuHause> the only thing the tile stores about a bridge is whether it has to search in \ or / direction for the end tile
01:25:02 <samu> in the advent that I need to store a 3rd owner, what can I do?
01:25:16 <samu> thinking of locks upper/lower parts
01:26:05 <Eddi|zuHause> those each have a different tile, why would you need to store them?
01:26:52 <samu> say, if i am to allow bridges over lock parts
01:29:42 <Eddi|zuHause> totally unrelated
01:29:58 <samu> okay, back to the ship depot then
01:31:24 <samu> must think of what I need
01:32:57 <samu> i can't stay focused on this
01:33:11 <samu> i know what I need, but i don't know how to tackle this
01:34:18 <samu> different watertypes cannot be on the same tile
01:37:49 <samu> canal could move from being a class into some other category
01:39:57 <samu> HasTileWaterClass(TileIndex t)
01:40:37 <samu> return IsTileType(t, MP_WATER) || IsTileType(t, MP_STATION) || IsTileType(t, MP_INDUSTRY) || IsTileType(t, MP_OBJECT);
01:42:52 <samu> assert(IsTileType(t, MP_ROAD) || IsTileType(t, MP_STATION) || IsTileType(t, MP_TUNNELBRIDGE));
01:43:06 <samu> these two are so similar and so different
01:44:34 <samu> return (RoadTypes)GB(_me[t].m7, 6, 2);
01:44:56 <samu> return (WaterClass)GB(_m[t].m1, 5, 2);
01:45:29 <ST2> somehow I'm with the feeling that Samu is not changing nothing at all, he only asks what todo
01:45:30 <glx> I think you need to learn more C/C++ :)
01:46:19 <samu> im not doing anything without knowing where to start
01:46:33 <samu> i'm trying to understand what I need first
01:48:31 <samu> i have to create a function
01:49:17 <glx> well 2 functions, 1 to write and 1 to read
01:49:42 <glx> but there are very similar
01:49:44 <ST2> sorry glx, I had to say and post that link
01:50:19 <ST2> sometimes I have doubts too and if all googling work dnt do the job, I ask here
01:51:18 <ST2> but Samu is not even googling for leaning C++
01:52:37 <ST2> again, sorry. but I had to say it
01:52:52 <ST2> Samu, get your priorities
03:12:36 *** supermop has joined #openttd
03:36:59 *** Biolunar_ has joined #openttd
03:44:07 *** Xrufuian has joined #openttd
04:36:32 *** flipFLOPS has joined #openttd
04:55:34 *** zeknurn has joined #openttd
05:56:17 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
06:07:50 *** Flygon__ has joined #openttd
07:12:10 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
07:12:10 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
07:19:50 *** liq3 is now known as Guest135
07:21:03 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
07:27:31 *** flipFLOPS has joined #openttd
08:15:50 <planetmaker> Alberth, bridges in OpenTTD can have a maximum length. So yes, "too long for a bridge" is an actual error in OpenTTD :)
08:16:04 <planetmaker> however, of course, the cheat your mention works around that
08:17:27 <Alberth> I know bridges have a quite finite max length :p I don't see building an island as a cheat, we do it too in RL with long bridges :p
08:17:49 <Supercheese> RL OP, needs nerf
08:18:47 *** Pensacola has joined #openttd
08:19:21 <Alberth> hmm, maybe automatically build islands? :p
08:21:52 <andythenorth> he really is just asking for boats no?
08:21:57 <andythenorth> he wants an alternative to buses
08:22:04 <andythenorth> he could also use planes
08:24:09 <Alberth> Supercheese: OP seems quite reasonable, it's more Sunshare hijaccking the thread :)
08:25:10 <Supercheese> He started the thread, though
08:26:31 <Alberth> oh, indeed he did. I was thinking about the "connect two islands" thread recently, but I was wrong
09:25:55 *** Progman has joined #openttd
09:26:57 *** chillcore has joined #openttd
09:28:27 <chillcore> "int* const q = new int[10];" Now the array elements in q can be modified, but any change to q (like q++) is illegal, as it is with an ordinary array identifier.
09:36:34 <Rubidium> chillcore: it's not like that's a new feature ;)
09:38:33 <chillcore> true Rubidium ... I just kept getting confused as to why trying to modifie an array kept throwing me errors. :P
09:39:15 <chillcore> If I understand correctly simply removing the asterix or ataching it to const will make it fail again ...
09:39:19 <Rubidium> but you're not modifying the array, you're modifying something that points to something else
09:40:41 <Rubidium> in the above case you have a pointer (that may not change) to an array (that may be changed)
09:41:14 <Rubidium> though I reckon it happens more often the other way around, i.e. a pointer that may change but the array (content) that may not be changed
09:41:57 <Rubidium> int q[] = new int[10] gives you the equivalent of int * const q = new int[10]
09:42:19 <chillcore> thanks for the clarification. I really should do them exercises too next time I go through my books. ;)
09:43:52 <Rubidium> and const int * q = new int[10] makes little sense because you may modify q (but then you loose track of your array) but you may not modify the thing q points to (i.e. the array content)
09:44:39 <Rubidium> though you'll often see const int * q = <some const array> where q is used to iterate over that array
09:45:23 <Rubidium> and for the fun of it, you can also get things like const int ** const which'll get your mind all garbled up ;)
09:46:29 <supermop> sunshare is our muse
09:47:09 <supermop> oops day at beach means i missed pikka
09:48:20 <andythenorth> I have these hot metal cars using the animated fire cycle when loaded
09:48:23 <andythenorth> I could add smoke :P
09:48:59 <chillcore> Rubidium: the thing that gets me in most books is that arrays are in chapter 3 and what I quoted is in chapter 13 which I found after a detour through chapter 22.
10:05:05 *** Celestar has joined #openttd
10:21:02 *** Pikkaphone has joined #openttd
10:21:08 <supermop> these may have looked better as trains, but then i miss out on the pun
10:21:37 <supermop> little coffee machines driving about!
10:22:14 <Pikkaphone> are they acceptable then?
10:22:44 <supermop> trying to get my head around applying liveries to the real trams
10:23:09 <supermop> rhino 4 has a 'decal' feature that i will try to use
10:23:48 <supermop> trams run all night tonight here
10:24:16 <supermop> ran down to st kilda but then got rained out this afternoon
10:24:34 *** oskari89 has joined #openttd
10:24:51 <supermop> anyway, the Z classes are 2m longer than the a class
10:25:00 <supermop> to chibi or not to chibi
10:25:52 <supermop> a is 14, w is 15, and z is 16
10:25:53 <Pikkaphone> imo the a classes you have now are too long for ttd ;)
10:26:26 <supermop> so i can move away from 16m/tile and re-render, or squish the Zs
10:26:30 *** liq3 is now known as Guest143
10:27:06 <supermop> melbourne really seemed to drag its heels on just building an articulated tram
10:27:10 <Pikkaphone> well if you're okay with how the a's look then might as well keep to your standard
10:27:34 *** Quatroking has joined #openttd
10:27:36 <andythenorth> hello Pikkaphone
10:28:00 <supermop> making the w and z also 14m may be a good solution as well
10:28:03 <Pikkaphone> hallo andythenorth
10:28:17 <supermop> just remove a window bau
10:28:43 <Pikkaphone> that's a spicy meatball
10:29:07 <andythenorth> I added some animated hot sauce
11:14:50 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
11:24:54 * chillcore invents "CC plus minus"
11:25:19 <chillcore> ev erything can and will change unless you exxplicitely specifie it can not ... hmm
11:25:49 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
11:26:38 *** liq3 is now known as Guest146
11:38:52 *** Progman has joined #openttd
11:46:21 <chillcore> lol book ... "SelfReferential* sr; // Head spinning yet?"
11:48:23 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
12:07:46 *** l4urenz has joined #openttd
12:08:42 <Rubidium> chillcore: type* <name> is quite misleading
12:09:22 <Rubidium> you know about int x, y declaring two variables of type int? Now what types are x and y in: int* x, y
12:13:13 <Rubidium> x is an int pointer, y is just an int
12:13:39 <chillcore> right I read that and forgot untill you mentioned it ...
12:14:22 <Rubidium> which is why openttd's coding style dictates that the * should be placed against the variable, i.e. int *x, y
12:15:42 <chillcore> right ... I have some more reading to do soon-ish
12:16:20 <Alberth> it better expresses that * is part of x, rather than part of 'int'
12:16:35 <Alberth> very subtle, but it works
12:26:46 <chillcore> thank you for the hint ... browses coding style
12:27:58 <chillcore> if it were not for trying to fix already working code this would be more fun :P
12:29:02 <chillcore> I guess that is why I always skip those things ^^^
12:31:41 *** Supercheese is now known as Guest149
12:31:46 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
12:37:22 *** roidal_ has joined #openttd
13:00:09 *** OsteHove` has joined #openttd
13:00:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: is that the ancient title game?
13:17:38 *** OsteHove` is now known as OsteHovel
13:20:24 <CosmicRay> Hello folks. Been playing OpenTTD for awhile here, and I seem to have a problem where after awhile, the game grows so that all of my transport networks are completely overwhelmed. Regardless of whether I'm using cargodist. I can have intercontinental airports, 7-track train stations, and them both completely busy and still thousands of people waiting at stations. Even with streetcar grfs the in-city transport is overwhelmed too, usually w
13:20:25 <CosmicRay> ith getting people to/from stations. ideas?
13:21:14 <Eddi|zuHause> house NewGRFs have a big influence on how many passengers are generated
13:22:15 <CosmicRay> the only NewGRF I typically use is Generic Tram Set v0.4
13:23:16 <CosmicRay> and on my most recent game I haven't even tended to mail or freight much, but that's always a problem too. the mines and farms keep producing more and more, the factories keep producing more and more...
13:23:25 <CosmicRay> sort of a good but annoying problem
13:23:58 <Eddi|zuHause> then i think the only solution is building more efficient networks :)
13:24:47 <CosmicRay> I've had games with 8-track mainlines and massive train stations... or every town having an intercontinental airport.
13:24:52 <CosmicRay> they always get overwhelmed in the end
13:25:41 <CosmicRay> I'm playing with pretty much default settings, too. large maps (at least 256x256), mostly temperate zone
13:26:16 <CosmicRay> I don't think I'm really tweaking settings in any impactful way
13:26:50 <CosmicRay> I've tried the idea of transportation hubs with cargodist
13:27:00 <CosmicRay> they get quickly overwhelmed
13:27:17 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that tends to happen
13:27:24 <Eddi|zuHause> try vehicle sets with higher capacity
13:27:36 <CosmicRay> any particular newgrf to recommend?
13:28:02 <CosmicRay> with the defaults my planes max out at 400 passengers and most of my maglev trains at 470 (because I run some mail cars on them too)
13:28:38 <CosmicRay> AFAIK I am using the highest-capacity planes and best trains
13:28:51 <CosmicRay> my game is up to year 2291 so there are plenty of nice vehicles ;-)
13:36:33 * chillcore points the pointer to the door, therefore the pointer is no more. or is it?
13:37:07 <chillcore> did not work. nvm me
13:58:49 *** Celestar has joined #openttd
14:33:01 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
14:43:15 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
15:10:26 *** zeknurn has joined #openttd
16:20:52 <samu> i am wondering why no one is joining, it was open 2 hours ago
16:29:47 <Alberth> count the number of empty servers :p
16:33:27 <samu> :(, for two hours, no one even tried to join
16:35:17 <Alberth> "only ships" ? doesn't sound very inviting
16:36:15 <Alberth> sure, but people want to play, not test
16:38:40 <samu> can't test it too well because of that issue with middle tile on locks
16:40:58 <samu> oh, speaking of that, I suppose I can submit the patch to bug tracker?
16:42:56 <samu> it's a patch that prices middle lock tile based on canal price, not on clearing a river tile
16:43:25 <Alberth> I don't know whether it is worthwhile to include it
16:44:02 <samu> when used with base costs, the problem is exposed clearer
16:44:59 <samu> on it's own, makes no difference
16:53:32 <samu> ok, with default prices, this patch results in locks costing less when building on river, but costing more when building on bareland
16:56:16 <samu> it is basing the cost on canal which are still based on 5000, that's why it ends up costing more on bareland
17:01:23 <samu> 17500 without patch, becomes 22500 when placed on bareland tiles
17:01:45 <samu> 17500 without patch, becomes 7500 when placed on river tiles
17:02:52 <samu> plus the added cost for clearing grass/debris, etc...
17:06:19 <samu> which type of report is it? bug, patch, feature request?
17:06:58 <Alberth> first check if there is a report bout it already
17:07:10 <samu> ok, it's a bit of the three
17:07:11 <Alberth> if there is, attach the patch to it
17:08:39 <samu> yes, bug is better exposed when used with a newgrf
17:08:52 <samu> without any newgrf, it's hard to identify it
17:09:39 <Alberth> if there is no open issue about it, make a new one
17:09:41 <samu> the feature part is that it is changing prices
17:09:48 <Alberth> as you have a patch, label it patch
17:10:06 <Alberth> 'feature request' means 'wanted feature'
17:10:25 <Alberth> not 'implemented feature'
17:14:00 <samu> the patch is a little bit of opinionated
17:14:34 <samu> i'll tell about it in the description
17:14:56 <Alberth> that's why there is a description :)
17:33:31 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
17:37:45 <samu> so when i search for locks, i get more crash results and other deadlocks rather than locks
17:37:57 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
17:43:04 <samu> Status: Unreproducable, there's a typo there
17:51:50 <Alberth> make a new one, and refer to FS#4711
18:45:57 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
19:03:32 <Alberth> hmm, it fixes 2 things eh?
19:03:57 <Alberth> for the next time, we prefer 1 patch to fix 1 thing
19:06:50 <roidal_> does the production rate of a farm decrease it some field get destroyed by a player?
19:13:35 *** shadowalkerAFK is now known as shadowalker
19:50:54 *** tokai|mdlx has joined #openttd
20:28:30 *** FLHerne_ has joined #openttd
20:46:17 <Wolf01> hah, today I attended a hobby modeling fair, the railroad layouts were awesome
20:47:22 <frosch123> does that mean transportable railroad setups?
20:47:34 <frosch123> or is it some kind of fixed installation
20:47:46 <Wolf01> transportable ones, but really big
20:48:19 <b_jonas> how many levels of nesting can there be where a railroad model is transported on a bigger railroad carriage?
20:52:41 <b_jonas> is that the pianist one?
20:54:00 <samu> it took 6 hours for someone to join my game and start building some ships
20:54:28 <samu> there's no appeal apparently
20:54:33 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
20:55:10 <samu> they're slow in generating profit
20:59:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd
21:10:55 <samu> question: is it actually possible for a vehicle, say a single cargo ship, to store different types of cargo?
21:11:10 *** FLHerne_ is now known as FLHerne
21:11:32 <samu> say, there's 50 mail, 30 coal and 100 livestock at a dock
21:11:52 <FLHerne> samu: Aircraft can, because they cheat and use the shadow (!)
21:12:02 <FLHerne> So they can store two cargos
21:13:25 <samu> i was imagining this possibility
21:14:22 <Wolf01> add shadows to every vehicle! double the amount ov vehicles in game!
21:16:09 <samu> the refit table would be changed somehow, into a different thing
21:16:22 <samu> "allowed cargos to load"
21:16:46 <samu> then toggle options for each type of cargo
21:17:09 <samu> ship would load whatever those options were set to at stations
21:17:20 <samu> but not those that were toggled off
21:17:41 <samu> to a max of 160 "cargo units"
21:18:04 <samu> but yeah... wishful thinking
21:21:53 *** shadowalker is now known as shadowalkerAFK
21:22:51 <samu> default cargo toggled on would be goods
21:46:28 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
22:00:40 *** quorzom has joined #openttd
22:30:23 *** supermop has joined #openttd
22:43:17 *** Celestar has joined #openttd
22:57:10 <NGC3982> If you have nothing to do, i'd suggest fixing the we-can't-automate-Tasker-to-run-OpenTTD-by-autovoice issue.
22:57:22 <NGC3982> Should be a plethora of forum posts about it.
23:12:49 *** l4urenz has joined #openttd
23:14:30 *** Progman has joined #openttd
23:33:05 <Flygon__> samu: I'd use Dropbox
23:33:06 *** Flygon__ is now known as Flygon
23:34:10 <samu> file name is called aqueduct but it's no longer aqueduct stuff only, it's a bit of everything water related
23:34:50 <samu> when I touch a depot tile
23:35:19 <samu> hmm nevermind, I suck at this
23:35:48 <samu> everything is interconnected
23:37:18 <samu> WATER_TILE_DEPOT can be placed on WATER_CLASS_SEA, WATER_CLASS_CANAL and WATER_CLASS_RIVER
23:39:07 <samu> WATER_CLASS_SEA can be WATER_TILE_CLEAR and WATER_TILE_COAST, but since this is a depot, it can't be WATER_TILE_COAST
23:41:37 <samu> WATER_CLASS_CANAL can be placed on WATER_CLASS_SEA and WATER_CLASS_RIVER
23:41:52 <samu> I don't know, I can't interconnect this
23:48:37 <samu> i must focus on WATER_TILE_DEPOT and WATER_CLASS_CANAL only, and what interconnect these two
23:52:44 <samu> where does the game store tile class owners?
23:53:45 <samu> i give up, i don't know what to ask
continue to next day ⏵
