IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-02-22
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00:19:35 *** shadowalkerAFK is now known as shadowalker
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00:28:34 <samu> i've a suggestion for ships
00:29:04 <samu> I don't like to see them piling over each other
00:29:42 <samu> give them a randomized acceleration so as to try to spread them
00:34:04 <samu> same ship model, randomized acceleration for each depart
00:36:43 <samu> for each time they depart*
00:37:34 <Supercheese> There's A Patch For That™
00:37:39 <Supercheese> lemme dig the link
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00:40:35 <Diablo-D3> what AIs are worth looking at?
00:40:57 <samu> let me look at my annotations
00:43:07 <samu> these annotations are a bit old, but
00:44:01 <Supercheese> jeez can't find the patch, where was it..
00:44:21 <samu> AroAI, except on sub-tropical
00:44:59 <samu> Convoy, except on sub-tropical
00:45:26 <samu> MogulAI, but this guy is very crazy
00:45:35 <Diablo-D3> what about nocab or pathzilla?
00:45:38 <samu> fills up 5000 vehicles in no time
00:45:39 <Diablo-D3> I remember those being popular at one point
00:47:17 <samu> Clueless Plus except on toyland
00:47:28 <samu> the rest are not as stable as I'd like
00:48:57 <Diablo-D3> also, if I want to do citybuilder, should I go aphid or should I go simple citybuilder?
00:49:21 <samu> NoCAB is buggy during rail upgrade
00:49:37 <samu> but before 2000 it's good
00:49:56 <samu> past that, it kind of *dies
00:50:14 <samu> stays idle with all trains stopped in depots
00:50:56 <samu> i dont know what aphid is
00:51:13 <Diablo-D3> a citybuilder script
00:51:18 <samu> NoCAB is also terrible with ships
00:51:32 <samu> it blocks itself with depots and reallly lags the game
00:53:39 <samu> some of them require pre-set game settings
00:55:55 <samu> forbit 90 degrees: turn it off
00:56:07 <samu> it is preferrible for many of them which uses train
00:56:37 <samu> super, ok, i'll look at it
00:56:49 <samu> allow building on slopes and coasts: on
00:57:00 <samu> allow drive-through road stops on town owned roads: on
00:57:07 <samu> allow to join stations not directly adjacent: on
00:57:35 <samu> Maximum bridge length: 20 tiles (for choo-choo)
00:59:12 <samu> allow to join stations not directly adjacent: on (for AdmiralAI)
00:59:15 <Diablo-D3> those are all default options
01:00:24 <samu> airports never expire: on
01:00:29 <samu> for those who use airports
01:01:02 <Diablo-D3> those two arent default
01:01:32 * Diablo-D3 increases maximum station size
01:01:38 <samu> Forbid trains and ships from making 90º turns: Off (for MailAI, though it almost never survive anyway)
01:02:17 <Diablo-D3> you already said that one
01:02:39 <samu> BorkAI is horrible with bus stations, don't let it build buses
01:02:51 <samu> he spams bus stations in every road tile
01:03:30 <samu> it works fine for trucks
01:04:03 * Diablo-D3 starts a game and sees what happens
01:04:05 <samu> WmDOT only works on Temperate
01:04:12 <samu> if it wants to survive, that is
01:04:54 <samu> and that's it, i'm at the end of these notes
01:14:10 <Flygon> Making 'tracks' in 1 tile wide channels would be... interesting
01:14:20 <Flygon> Doubt it'll ever happen tho @_@
01:14:31 <samu> Pathzilla, you asked about it
01:15:12 <samu> my observations is that it needs easy game settings, like a big loan, low construction costs
01:16:47 <samu> it doesn't crash with errors
01:18:32 <samu> oh, i have 1 instance where it crashed, it was in sub-tropical
01:19:37 <samu> many AIs do bad in sub-tropical
01:20:58 <samu> sub-tropical is the worst tileset for AIs, statistically lol
01:21:12 <samu> then toy land almost equally worse
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01:21:57 <samu> temperate and arctic are best for AIs
01:23:18 <Rugnir_> I've been playing about with the game for a while now. I really wanna try a project, as i've made countless moneymaking rail systems.
01:23:34 <Rugnir_> Anybody got any ideas? Know any servers for that kinda thing?
01:24:50 <planetmaker> Rugnir_, there's many many servers. Have a look at a few and stick to those where you like ti
01:25:39 <planetmaker> there's plenty with some kind of goals, often city builder or alike. But you can also get such game scripts from online content and then play that offline on your own w/o multiplayer servers involved
01:25:59 <Rugnir_> I've not been playing multiplayer for very long but most of the servers I've found seem to be very temporary
01:26:13 <Rugnir_> I was thinking something more like a large project
01:26:53 <Rugnir_> I've been looking at trying to learn for openttdcoop but there's nobody about on their irc today
01:29:45 <Rugnir_> I've been enjoying making rail systems as complex as possible. I've gotten up to 4 rails each way on my singleplayer games, but I'm sure its teribly inefficient
01:29:57 <Diablo-D3> I forget how many years until AIs start up
01:30:31 <planetmaker> well, this is a bit night time compared to when coop is active, usually. But just stick around a bit... then maybe another person joins in and won't find it empty
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01:51:45 <samu> woah, that looks suberb!
01:52:46 <samu> now as to convince devs to reduce canal prices...
02:08:10 <samu> there's still room for improvements
02:11:33 <samu> heh, some ships are doing a 360º turns
02:13:07 <samu> a peninsula ahead + a nearby ship = 360 degree turn
02:13:19 <samu> but woah, it looks spectacular to watch
02:24:14 <samu> the path ai isn't helping
02:27:43 <samu> forbidding 90 degrees is really really hurtful for ships
02:27:58 <samu> YAPF doesn't handle this any good
02:34:44 <samu> watch 90 degrees on ships
02:34:49 <ST2> samu is googling for what means "sleeping" xD
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02:37:25 <Flygon> Is he like the villian from Die Another Day?
02:40:44 <samu> but it combines very bad with forbidden 90 degrees
02:41:36 <samu> or actually, YAPF isn't gentle with that setting for ships
02:42:09 <samu> not entirely the fault of the patch, but the patch requires forbidden 90 degrees :( too bad
02:43:57 <samu> when there's a problem in the route, it becomes very difficult to find where the ship couldn't do a 90 degree turn
02:45:12 <samu> 0 viewers, nobody's watching t.t
03:02:45 <Flygon> Jusr like my art streams
03:02:56 <Flygon> Everyone figures out I ran out of music when I get desperate and run Bond themes
03:11:18 <samu> i hate to be forced into bed when i'm in the midst of something
03:14:35 <samu> what I like on YAPF is that it looks quite fine-tuned for 90 degrees, with the exception of those fake ship is lost warnings when they're not lost.
03:16:19 <samu> it does have some flaws from what I can remember - it fails when it has to pick a random depot for servicing at a random moment.
03:17:18 <samu> it picks it, finds a route to it, but at the same time, it cancels it
03:17:26 <samu> when it gets out of range
03:17:39 <samu> ship then enters a dumb-looping back and forth
03:19:06 <samu> when it goes back to his normal route, it re-enters the service range and triggers servicing, it picks the opposite route, going out of range
03:19:37 <samu> ship never gets serviced because it's on this dumb-loop
03:20:31 <samu> and never returns back to its normal schedulle
03:21:29 <samu> the problem is triggered when it needs to chose a depot to service
03:22:54 <samu> if breakdowns are disabled and never service if breakdowns are disabled then I don't see any other flaw with YAPF and ships that I recall.
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05:43:23 <ST2> well, it's a try... with a music talking about sun happiness and summer xD
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09:04:47 <George> Hi. Small NML question. How to display speed in proper units in additional text CB?
09:06:08 <George> STR_PURCHASE_HINT_SPEED_CHANGE_ON_LOAD :Max speed changes to {VELOCITY} when loaded
09:06:53 <Alberth> indeed, that would be the string
09:07:59 <George> string(STR_PURCHASE_HINT_SPEED_CHANGE_ON_LOAD, 70 km/h));
09:08:36 <George> ←[Knmlc ERROR: "xussr.nml", line 20942: Syntax error, unexpected token "km/h"
09:09:33 <George> How should I specify the data to the {VELOCITY}?
09:11:26 <Alberth> tbh I have no idea how to add data to any positional string command
09:12:00 <George> Any idea where to look at?
09:12:00 <Alberth> maybe someone else can help you, although it's quiet here at this time of the sunday
09:12:54 <Alberth> other nml vehicle sets probably, or the nml manual on settings string parameters
09:13:19 <Alberth> post a question to the forum is also an option
09:14:13 <George> what subforum would fit better?
09:14:14 <juzza1> not sure if the parameter can be anything but another string
09:14:32 <juzza1> string(STR_SOMETHING, string(STR_ANOTHER))
09:14:56 <Alberth> newgrf development, in the NML thread, would be my choice
09:15:14 <George> It definitly can be INSIGNED_WORD, just checked
09:15:15 <Alberth> as you're asking a technical nml question
09:16:05 <George> I get problems with values in units only
09:16:19 <Alberth> hmm, is there a unit conversion function in nml?
09:16:30 <Alberth> maybe you need to wrap that around your value
09:17:05 <TrueBrain> arent speed units handled by the game itself? As you can switch between km/h and mph? (has no clue about NML, but this stood out to me :))
09:18:27 <George> No, there is none to convert speed here :(
09:19:32 <TrueBrain> exactly why I mentoin it :) Doesn't {VELOCITY} take km/h value as parameter, and output either N km/h or M mph, based on the game setting? :)
09:19:49 <TrueBrain> (so just 70, without any addition)
09:20:32 <TrueBrain> for the same reason you only give an integer for {CURRENCY}, and you dont add the EUR etc? :)
09:20:37 <Alberth> hi TB, yes, that would be a good experiment
09:21:19 <TrueBrain> string(STR_PURCHASE_HINT_SPEED_CHANGE_ON_LOAD, 70));
09:21:26 <TrueBrain> so that would be my guess there :)
09:21:35 <TrueBrain> well, one ) too many, but meh :)
09:22:12 <George> ←[Knmlc ERROR: "lang\english.lng", line 992: Provided a static argument for string command 'VELOCITY' which is invalid
09:23:38 <TrueBrain> so I am wrong; bah :D
09:24:18 <George> May be you can generate more ides, may be someone would work
09:25:40 <TrueBrain> trying to find an online example of string() with a second parameter, but rather failing :(
09:27:03 <Alberth> it seems to need a non-static argument, can you make it a non-static one, by adding some switch-like statement?
09:27:46 <Alberth> (no idea what statements exist in nml, so likely, it's not "switch")
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10:34:19 <chillcore> houston? ... we get glitches ... no idea where they are coming from.
10:47:06 <chillcore> hmm ... error message opengfx(e) has corrupt sprite? will write it down correctly as soon a I see the message again.
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10:54:37 <chillcore> indeed ... thing is I can not reproduce neither ... when I try the same setting it crashes on mepgenearation
10:54:55 <chillcore> ^^^ but ccpelled correctly :P
11:01:46 <Alberth> you may want to update your baseset, sprites have been added in the past
11:12:52 <chillcore> mepping ... already found a typo in one of my patches (although I doubt it is the cause of glitches) ... checking to see if I have the latest and greatest of OpenGFX
11:15:18 <planetmaker> the latest and greates is yet a nightly version only
11:16:27 <chillcore> I am aware of that planetmaker, if you do not have it while compiling yourself the games tells you about it. ;)
11:16:47 <chillcore> Thank you for the hint anyway, much apreciated.
11:18:06 <Alberth> ugh, why does squirrel interface linking fail? :(
11:18:11 <planetmaker> eh, while compiling the game, chillcore ?
11:19:08 <chillcore> if you compile trunk and OpenTTD only sees the stable version on start, then it sais you may expect glitches because of not tunning the nightly OpenGFX
11:20:18 <planetmaker> yes. But that has nothing to do with compiling it. Just with using nightly :)
11:22:49 <chillcore> true ... MHL used to have glitches each time OpenGFX updated because of the way sprites were inserted before, not sure how flat_blacktiles are treated now
11:23:24 <chillcore> the glitches used to be outside the map too so this may be unrelated to what I am seeing now-ish (can not reproduce))
11:41:05 <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: flat blacktiles were replaced with a black recolour map
11:42:07 <chillcore> hmm ... date in description in game options seems to match the latest nightly version
11:42:43 <chillcore> thank you for the info eddi.
11:43:32 <V453000> hmmmm, played on novapolis custom client yesterday and I must say they have a ton of nice client-side gui improvements
11:46:38 <michi_cc> Alberth: You're missing a few ScriptNews::'s
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12:17:35 <frosch123> chillcore: btw. your new window is quite colourful: green, orange, black, blue, white, light green :)
12:24:25 <chillcore> thank you for the link frosch, adding it to my list. Blue however is not in it ... only dark_green, orange, grey and mauve (except for text)
12:25:24 <chillcore> feel free to change in whatever your pref is. I added more colour because someone complained about the gui being too boring;)
12:25:58 <frosch123> haha, well, all ottd windows are boring then :p your window is a parrot between them :)
12:26:19 <frosch123> lots of borders and bevels which no other windows have
12:26:42 <chillcore> thank god I did not go for rainbowcoulour text :P
12:27:01 <chillcore> you like or I should tone down a bit?
12:27:12 <frosch123> V does rainbow, if you haven't seen nuts yet :)
12:27:32 <chillcore> I have not seen it yet no
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12:38:35 <planetmaker> it's confusing, Alberth and chillcore have the same colour
12:39:14 <Eddi|zuHause> but yes. same colour is very very confusing
12:39:34 <Alberth> long live random colouring heuristics :p
12:39:37 <Eddi|zuHause> like you and supercheese
12:39:45 <Wolf01> eh, you have all the same colour here :)
12:40:03 <chillcore> everyone that highlights me has unreadable yellow, everybody else black
12:40:04 <planetmaker> you share the colour with Terken, Wolf01 ;)
12:40:17 <Eddi|zuHause> damn coloured people! they all look alike! :p
12:40:22 <planetmaker> and juza actually
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13:07:50 <Eddi|zuHause> someone's "use more variations of rock" patch was overzealous?
13:10:32 <Alberth> either that, or someone didn't code all rock variations
13:10:51 <frosch> i only checked the basesets, not ogfx+landscape :p
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13:18:22 <jjavaholic> I'm looking for tips and ideas how to form a train network that plans around town growth
13:18:49 <planetmaker> Alberth, yes. Though it's a result of the change frosch introduced recently: to also use the unused rock sprites
13:19:21 <planetmaker> and the newgrf doesn't replace unused sprites indeed
13:19:29 <planetmaker> or formerly unused sprites
13:19:44 <frosch> hmm, do we use function overloading anywhere in ottd?
13:20:56 <frosch> i mean functions with same name, but different amount/type of parameters
13:21:24 <frosch> the traditional c functions do not do that, so i wonder whether it is part of our coding style to not do it :)
13:21:45 <Alberth> traditional c doesn't have overloading
13:21:53 <frosch> like ScrollWindowTo vs ScrollWindowToTile
13:22:04 <frosch> Alberth: yes, but should i stick to that when adding a new function? :p
13:22:45 <Alberth> hmm, maybe in the gfx.cpp file?
13:22:58 <Alberth> with all the string rendering functions
13:23:47 <Alberth> I wouldn't mind if you add overloaded functions
13:24:05 <Alberth> the only problem is that finding the definition from its use is more complicated
13:24:08 <Eddi|zuHause> all the template functions are overloaded?
13:24:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. stuff that is in .hpp files?
13:32:26 <Alberth> hmm, and it makes it easier to read what the code does
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13:43:57 <Alberth> different number of parameters is way easier to find, seems fine to me
13:49:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm probably not the right person to decide this, but i'd find it easier if all the "helper function" that just call the main function are before the main function
13:53:15 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like a password :p
13:56:31 <Alberth> I thought it was 'secret' :p
14:01:31 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27157 /trunk/src (6 files) (2015-02-22 14:01:24 UTC)
14:01:32 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Mark bridge middle tiles dirty when building/removing/changing bridges.
14:10:49 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27158 /trunk/src (4 files) (2015-02-22 14:10:44 UTC)
14:10:50 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Simplify mapping from viewport to smallmap coordinates by duplicating less code.
14:12:39 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27159 trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp (2015-02-22 14:12:34 UTC)
14:12:40 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Simplify mapping from smallmap to viewport coordinates by duplicating less code.
14:14:36 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27160 /trunk/src (smallmap_gui.cpp viewport.cpp) (2015-02-22 14:14:30 UTC)
14:14:37 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Division of signed values by TILE_SIZE requires cast to stay signed.
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14:28:05 <chillcore> planetmaker: I got that error message again, it reads, "/ogfx1_base contains a corrupt sprite. All corrupt sprites will be shown as a red questionmark (?)"
14:28:32 <planetmaker> aha. I don't get that. What OpenGFX do you use?
14:28:41 <chillcore> now I gotta find the question mark ingame ...
14:28:56 <frosch> doesn't the console say which sprite?
14:30:18 <chillcore> hmm let me check the revision nr ... planetmaker .. (I believe it is latest, at least it was this morning)
14:30:30 <planetmaker> 'latest' is no version :P
14:30:37 <planetmaker> ingame it tells you what it actually uses
14:30:43 <planetmaker> in the game options
14:31:08 <chillcore> frosh: have not yet checked ... this is a red popup without more info (not console)
14:31:21 <Alberth> hmm, let's release a version 'latest' :p
14:31:58 <maxaitor> Can I join any multiplayer server if I have 1.4.4 version?
14:31:58 <chillcore> planetmaker ... checking in a bit ... I don't want to quit this game just yet because it is hard to reproduce
14:32:16 <planetmaker> no worries, no rush
14:33:06 <chillcore> when I checked this morning the date of the readme(?) matched latest in openttcoop foldeer for opengfx
14:33:19 <chillcore> ^^^ in game options
14:33:23 <planetmaker> coop has three latest ;)
14:33:32 <frosch> maxaitor: you can change servers with matching version, most servers currently run 1.4.4
14:34:11 <maxaitor> I have another question
14:34:17 <maxaitor> Today I joned one server
14:34:22 <maxaitor> and my train wasn't moving
14:34:48 <maxaitor> It was moving but not to the stations
14:35:14 <chillcore> hmm ... can I enable dev tools ingame? via console?
14:35:30 <planetmaker> those are simple variables
14:35:38 <frosch> maxaitor: most common case of that problem is "forgotten catenary"
14:35:48 <planetmaker> chillcore, but you cannot enable debugging output iirc
14:36:31 <planetmaker> wire above tracks with high voltage & current
14:37:06 <Alberth> actually, the high voltage is to keep the current down :)
14:37:34 <planetmaker> however... 16kV @ 2MWatts ---> high current, too ;)
14:37:36 <frosch> electric trains cannot drive on non-electrified railway
14:37:57 <maxaitor> I was using vapor train
14:39:56 <frosch> Alberth: actually, some powerlines are operated at a lower voltage in winter, to get rid of heavy ice :)
14:40:24 <frosch> (not constantly, but a few hours when needed)
14:41:57 <Alberth> maxaitor: difficulty of the game may depend on the server, many owners tweak the game configuration towards a particular audience
14:42:20 <maxaitor> I want to say that is hard to learn
14:42:33 <Alberth> oh, yeah, it has lots of depth
14:42:33 <maxaitor> I'm new to the game and I'm always losing money
14:42:40 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27161 /trunk/src (3 files) (2015-02-22 14:42:34 UTC)
14:42:41 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6156] [FS#6206]: Reimplement the viewport drawing algorithm.
14:43:29 <planetmaker> frosch, same power but lower voltage? Interesting :)
14:43:36 <Alberth> maxaitor: start with a coal connection about 20-30 tiles in temperate, or with two towns around that distance
14:43:51 <chillcore> this is akward ... seems like the sprites in sprite aligner are clipped to a rectangle, does not matter which sprite I select ... size of viewable rectangle does not change
14:43:52 <Alberth> use not too long trains, and always have a train loading
14:44:15 <maxaitor> What about iron connection?
14:44:19 <frosch> planetmaker: in austria or russia you have to take even more severe actions
14:44:33 <planetmaker> only when it's humid :)
14:45:00 <frosch> like temporary switching off parts of a station, then put them on 5kV and then short-circuiting
14:45:01 <Alberth> maxaitor: not sure, there is a cargo payment graph in the game, that shows payment of cargoes for distance, compare a few to get an idea what pays best
14:45:17 <maxaitor> Thank's for the help :)
14:45:50 <Alberth> maxaitor: secondary cargo pays more than primary cargo, so perhaps the money of iron ore is in the steel and food transport later
14:45:51 <Flygon> Here, when the overhead froze
14:46:01 <Flygon> We just ran electric locomotives with two pantographs up
14:46:18 <Flygon> Granted, this is Australia and one of the few parts of mainland Australia where it snows
14:52:59 <chillcore> notice how the sprites in sprite aligner are clipped ...
14:53:14 <chillcore> going to chack that OpenGFX revision now
14:55:27 <chillcore> hmm silly me I could check from ingame too ...date: 1014-11-09 (5426:e1262b81c821)
14:55:48 <chillcore> hmm I think peeps will get used to it, eventually :P
14:55:57 <planetmaker> yes, game options tell you what *actually* is used :)
14:56:13 <chillcore> If only it did that all the time ...
14:56:44 <chillcore> I was under the impression I needed to go to main menu planetmaker
14:58:03 <chillcore> date is 2014 ... haha
14:59:00 <chillcore> close box sprite seems to be missing in my screenshot
15:03:17 <planetmaker> well, that should be there in new(er) versions
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15:03:43 <chillcore> normally it is ... just not when theses glitches happen
15:04:19 <chillcore> the glitches are somehow tied to terrain as they change as I modify terrain
15:04:29 <chillcore> in a predictable manner that is
15:05:54 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27162 trunk/src/viewport.cpp (2015-02-22 15:05:48 UTC)
15:05:55 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6208]: Tile selection was drawn outside of map in some cases. (adf88)
15:07:10 <chillcore> planetmaker: this is going to be a fun one to fix I am sure ... I generated a new game and they are gone ... again
15:07:39 <chillcore> and my closebox is back too ...
15:08:17 <chillcore> something is reading out of bounds?
15:10:54 <frosch> if you were on linux, i would recommend you to run valgrind :p
15:12:13 <chillcore> hmm another small thinghy ... in smallmap the white square that represents "part of map in viewport"? when you go over the top sides of the map part of it dissapears, unless you are at the very top; there it shows completely
15:14:04 <chillcore> frosch: what is this valgrind you speak of ... still having a headache from those pointy pointers :P (which I still did not get to fix)
15:14:30 <frosch> i replaced the code for that this afternoon :) so, it is kind of important whether you updated today :p
15:14:53 <chillcore> I have not yet updated ... doing so now then ;)
15:14:57 <frosch> chillcore: valgrind is open-soure tool for unix-like operating systems, that one a google price in 2002
15:15:13 <frosch> it is the main reason why i consider windows dead for developement of native applciations
15:15:51 <frosch> (actually, the price is from 2006)
15:16:28 <frosch> it's a master-piece of compiler and debugging technology
15:20:52 <frosch> anyway, anyone interesed in fixing one of the 100 open bugs? otherwise we can release beta2 tomorrow or so
15:26:33 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27163 /trunk/src (6 files in 2 dirs) (2015-02-22 15:26:27 UTC)
15:26:34 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6204]: Toolbars were not invalidated when changing max-vehicles settings. (adf88)
15:26:52 <frosch> yay for adf making it a two-digit bug count :)
15:38:32 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch: 20% of users cause 80% of the bugs? :p
15:39:33 <chillcore> frosch: smallmap maparea selector (or whatever it is called) is not broken anymore.
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17:03:50 <chillcore> What happens when the last element of an enum has a comma when it should not? a) nothing or b) a nameless element is created with value "previous value +1" ??
17:04:29 <chillcore> going through my patches again ... fixing stuffs ...
17:05:07 <chillcore> I see enums without it?
17:05:20 <Alberth> all openttd enums have a comma behind the last value, except invalid values perhaps
17:05:44 <chillcore> could be me having deleted a comma too ... hmm
17:06:08 <Alberth> or hg diff, for that matter
17:06:11 <planetmaker> hg annotate doesn't sound so unfriendly :P
17:06:44 <Alberth> hmm, svn has svn praise iirc
17:07:32 <chillcore> have a look at GenWorldProgress in genorld.h ... no comma after GWP_CLASS_COUNT
17:08:36 <Alberth> yeah, counts and invalids are a bit of an exception, as they are expected to be the last value
17:08:55 <Alberth> also, it could be just an inconsistency, we have plenty of those :p
17:09:18 <michi_cc> Trailing commas simplify changes and don't hurt, except if you are required to write code strictly compliant to C89/C++98.
17:09:25 <frosch> chillcore: the comma is purely optional from a syntax point of view
17:09:46 <chillcore> ok. so what do we want?
17:09:49 <frosch> however, to make patches not modify unrelated lines, it is common to layout the source, so you do not have to change a line just to add a comma
17:10:12 <frosch> thus most enums have a comma for the last item, except when the last item must be the last item
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17:13:42 <chillcore> so for "presets" and "perlin params" no comma, for "various min max values" comma
17:15:48 <chillcore> hmm ... just curious now ... is there somewhere that we need to read past the end of an enum?
17:16:06 <chillcore> I can not htink of a sitution where you would want to do that ...
17:17:30 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
17:17:53 <chillcore> fetching a single one yes, but reading a block past the end ... seems like a bad idea to code something like that on purpose
17:18:10 <chillcore> anyhoo thanks for the info once again ;)
17:19:05 <Alberth> adding a comma after the last element of an enum means you can add another value after it later, without having to change the line above it
17:19:28 <Alberth> same also applies for arrays
17:19:52 <chillcore> that is not a prob ... you are adding one anyway and the compiler will give you the finger :P
17:20:22 <Alberth> yes, but the patch grows by 2 lines
17:20:47 <Alberth> and the change isn't really interesting
17:20:52 <frosch> and the vcs annotation is bumped
17:21:21 <planetmaker> meh... my zbase compilation is borked
17:25:35 <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r27164 /trunk (8 files in 4 dirs) (2015-02-22 17:25:29 UTC)
17:25:36 <DorpsGek> -Add: [NoGo] Game scripts can point to a location, station, industry, or town when publishing news.
17:29:57 <planetmaker> hm, sounds tasty :)
17:30:26 <Alberth> not being able to click at BB news was annoying :p
17:30:47 <frosch> nothing prevented you from clicking the news :p
17:31:17 <Alberth> I tried that, but it failed every single time :(
17:31:41 <planetmaker> clicking? I doubt
17:31:55 <Alberth> no way to tell, really :p
17:31:59 <planetmaker> the desired effect might have been lacking ;)
17:32:59 <planetmaker> frosch where did your numbers go? ;)
17:33:55 <samu> im about to give up on this
17:34:10 <samu> suddenly visual studio doesn't build
17:34:18 <frosch> planetmaker: in a kernel panic when starting a vm
17:34:43 <planetmaker> oh, yeah. Numbers are easily scared ;)
17:35:12 <Alberth> they just hide in the other numbers from the panic :)
17:35:41 <chillcore> clean trunk still compiles samu?
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17:45:24 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27165 trunk/src/lang/english_US.txt (2015-02-22 17:45:17 UTC)
17:45:25 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:26 <DorpsGek> english_US - 3 changes by Supercheese
17:47:38 <samu> i'm trying to do it from zero
17:47:44 <samu> except reinstalling visual studio
17:48:44 <samu> SAFESEH and DirectMusic, ok, better
17:57:04 <samu> 4>icuuc.lib(ubidi.obj) : warning LNK4099: PDB 'vc100.pdb' was not found with 'icuuc.lib(ubidi.obj)' or at 'C:\OpenTTD\trunk\objs\Win32\Release\vc100.pdb'; linking object as if no debug info
18:00:22 <samu> OpenTTD r27164M - is this it?
18:00:41 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
18:02:50 <samu> Cannot find or open the PDB file.
18:03:12 <samu> 'openttd.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\kernel32.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
18:04:54 <samu> The program '[6760] openttd.exe' has exited with code 0 (0x0).
18:05:38 <samu> 'openttd.exe' (Win32): Unloaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\WSHTCPIP.DLL'
18:07:16 <samu> well, it works, though with too many warnings now
18:15:28 <frosch> juicy cat - original filtered cat juice
18:16:22 *** Pulec is now known as Pulecc
18:38:44 <samu> Mantle support for OpenTTD?
18:43:03 <Alberth> you're speaking in riddles for me
18:47:28 <samu> when the game says marktiledirty
18:53:08 <samu> gonna try something stupid: 15 companies, 5000 ships each company, 4096x4096 map
18:56:28 <glx> you need a computer from the future for that
18:57:27 <planetmaker> patience might suffice
18:57:36 <samu> its gonna be boring to click 5000 times
18:57:38 <planetmaker> tick length: 15 minutes
18:59:54 <Taede> code a simple ai which will just add ships to existing routes?
19:00:02 <frosch> actually, the more ships you have, the more efficient gets the yapf cache
19:00:11 <Taede> all you need to do then is set up 15 companies and some routes
19:00:55 <frosch> so you have to make sure, that all ships have different orders :)
19:04:08 <samu> generating 13312 towns... zzzzz
19:14:55 <samu> not enough money for 5000 ships
19:15:20 <samu> basecosts mod says free costs, it's not really free, made 2600 ships
19:16:00 <samu> starting 2600 ships in 3...
19:17:23 <samu> fast forward doesn't really fasts anything
19:18:26 <frosch> just extrapolate the cpu clock rated from the past 10 years, to see when you can get a 50 ghz cpu
19:21:34 <samu> oh, it's stalling a bit now
19:21:56 <samu> every 2 seconds nothing moves, not even mouse cursor
19:23:19 <samu> very laggy mouse controls though
19:28:07 <oskari89> Is there a tree growth height limit somewhere on the settings?
19:28:57 <frosch> no, but some guy on the forums (i believe hackalittlebit) wrote a tree-height-limit patch
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19:30:16 <chillcore> loclahost did ... maybe hackalittlebit too I don't know about that ;)
19:30:51 <frosch> ah, yes, the second post lniks to some other patch
19:31:51 <chillcore> loclahost his version did not work with all climates though, I changed that in my bugpack ... ;)
19:33:13 <frosch> hmm, i wondered, is your usage of "his" a swedish grammatic thing?
19:33:44 <chillcore> seems like hackalittle bit his version offers more variation ... the other is a clear cut kinda
19:33:44 <frosch> i am asking because the same dative-construct exists in german, but is considered bad german :)
19:34:48 <chillcore> swedish hehe ... no I am a dutch speaking belgian
19:35:12 <samu> about 5200 ships in the game now
19:35:12 <frosch> huh, why did i think you were swedish?
19:38:12 <frosch> hmm, maybe because you told about working at volvo?
19:39:45 <chillcore> frosh: maybe because a little while ago I said I worked for Volvo years ago (external company)?
19:39:51 <planetmaker> a tree height limit would be sad... no snowy trees then :)
19:39:59 <planetmaker> but as it would be a setting... I don't care really
19:40:17 <chillcore> they have a factory over'ere ;)
19:40:35 <oskari89> planetmaker: Trees growing over 10 kilometer height would be rather strange-looking
19:40:54 <frosch> less strange than when 10km tall :p
19:42:28 <oskari89> In what height it usually stops, by the way
19:43:33 <chillcore> planetmaker you can set snowline higher then treelineheight
19:44:37 <frosch> at least we do not need a newgrf spec for variable treeline height :)
19:45:39 <chillcore> not sure about hackalittlebit his pacth but the other one did not check for industries above treeline height, sawmill for example should not be generated there IMHOand such
19:46:55 <samu> can't pathfinders be multithreaded?
19:47:35 <samu> parallel finding work on pieces
19:48:36 <oskari89> planetmaker: Seems that most threes do not grow over 3500 metres, but all ends over 5200 metres
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19:49:01 <planetmaker> but then... what's scale in OpenTTD? It gives a value. But is it... sensible? ;)
19:50:32 <samu> there's something slowing, and i don't think it's pathfinding
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19:51:04 <samu> but the game trying to follow 2600~ ships on the same screen
19:51:41 <samu> when i move the screen away from those 2600 ships, mouse cursor moves much better, less sluggish
19:53:38 <samu> and i still have 2600 ships, i'm just not looking at all of them in the same screen
19:54:34 <glx> it's the map size and the amount of ships
19:54:57 <samu> let me try something even dumber
19:54:58 <glx> and pathfinding for ships
19:55:18 <glx> which can't be better as there are no tracks
19:55:37 <samu> what is the maximum number of viewports i can open?
19:55:50 <samu> each will look at 2600 ships
19:56:06 <glx> there's a setting for that I think
19:56:26 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
19:57:24 <samu> what's the hotkey for opening an extra viewport? does it exist?
19:58:22 * chillcore has DejuVu ... puff of smoke rising out of CPU
19:58:46 <chillcore> samu check tooltips? that or hotkeys config ...
19:59:27 <samu> i can sense it becoming slower and slower the more viewports I open
20:02:34 <samu> is this game gpu accelerated at all for graphics?
20:03:40 <glx> and graphics are not the problem
20:05:07 <samu> had about 60 viewports, focusing on 2600 ships
20:05:17 <chillcore> it was the mapsize and nr of ships
20:05:28 <chillcore> + the crazy amount of viewports
20:05:57 <samu> looking at ships was really slow, than not looking at them
20:07:35 <chillcore> yeah each viewport is a representation of part the map in its own... each one having to follow a vehicle
20:07:47 <chillcore> what did you expect to happen?
20:09:59 <samu> just throwing random ideas as to where the game could make use of more cores
20:12:39 <Alberth> it already does, for as far as it is feasible
20:14:54 <chillcore> hmm ... entering seeds manually now crashes ... great :P
20:17:47 *** shadowalkerAFK is now known as shadowalker
20:23:41 <frosch> yay, finally discovered why the viewport scrolling jumps all over the place when ottd is lagging
20:24:30 <planetmaker> Rubidium, wth is that kind of savegame you suggested for the titlegame contest?
20:25:05 <frosch> is it the nightly one, or is it the ottd 0.2 one?
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20:26:52 <planetmaker> it's a crashy one most of all :)
20:27:59 <frosch> yay, all video drivers are affected, now i can do experimental coding again :)
20:28:11 <frosch> code something, commit it, and hope the compile farm compiles it :p
20:31:05 <frosch> did you rename it to .sav ?
20:32:08 <frosch> and yes, it's the nightly tiltegmae
20:33:08 <samu> those tittlegames look odd
20:33:20 <samu> but yeah, i guess that's the point
20:33:36 <samu> have to cram many stuff into them
20:35:30 <frosch> well, there is a troll submission every year :)
20:35:49 <frosch> last year there was an entry with a prominent train crash after 2 minutes :)
20:36:11 <frosch> it was carefully timed to not happen immediately
20:36:43 <planetmaker> frosch, yes, I renamed every game to 2015_author.sav
20:36:56 <frosch> but well, as long as no save with incorrect signal usages wins, i am fine with every game :)
20:37:15 <frosch> planetmaker: well, it loads for me, and since it's the nightly, it is also very valid :)
20:37:32 <frosch> maybe your patch has issues with ancient saves without grf information?
20:37:39 <frosch> try emptying your openttd.cfg or something
20:38:19 <frosch> yup, it's one of those
20:38:23 <frosch> it loads all you active grfs
20:38:33 <frosch> in a save from the dark ages :)
20:38:49 <frosch> so, just clear your newgrf list
20:39:11 <frosch> the advantage is, that townname grfs work with it :p
20:41:46 <samu> lol, just opened TTDLX title game
20:42:27 <planetmaker> frosch, it won't work with a ranemd openttd.cfg for me either it seems...
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20:42:48 <planetmaker> anyhow, a titlegame which doesn't work an arbitrary openttd.cfg is not exactly nice, no?
20:44:29 <frosch> what? it works in the nightly?
20:44:51 <planetmaker> my patch is based on yesterday's head
20:45:17 <frosch> it's literally the nightly savegame, when loaded as savegame (not as titlegame) it uses the newgrf from main menu
20:46:03 <planetmaker> but I load it as titlegame
20:46:38 <planetmaker> (otherwise I couldn't create the main menu screenshots)
20:46:49 <frosch> yeah, i see, no idea then :p
20:47:54 <samu> Chris Sawyer hacked for his title.dat
20:47:58 <planetmaker> but it loads when I compile unpatched
20:48:07 <samu> 1953 with aircraft from year 2020
20:51:03 <planetmaker> hm, I don't understand the crashy crash then
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20:59:12 <Rubidium> frosch / planetmaker: I seem to remember people complaining not being able to vote for the trunk one, so I gave them the possibility.
20:59:57 <planetmaker> Rubidium, yeah, funnily my openttd crashes when I force it as titlegame. but only with my titlegame patch. However updated to current savegame version I got the screenies
21:00:10 <planetmaker> uploading all savegames and screenshots now
21:00:22 <planetmaker> and yes, they're German locale :P
21:14:54 <samu> someone wrote a book about openttd?
21:17:45 <Rubidium> samu: why wouldn't it be allowed to write a book?
21:18:05 <planetmaker> samu, it is of course allowed. And we know. I even proof-read it to some degree
21:18:38 <__ln___> books are allowed in germany, yes
21:19:10 *** shadowalker is now known as shadowalkerAFK
21:19:27 <samu> there's money involved...
21:19:40 <frosch> there is no issue if money would be involved
21:19:52 <frosch> but in this case, there is effectively no money involved
21:19:53 <__ln___> yes, true. but openttd is not on the banned book topics list afaik.
21:20:20 <frosch> just some poor soul, spending some weeks on writing something, and then noticing that noone buys it
21:20:48 <Rubidium> is it mentioned on the wikipedia page?
21:20:59 <Rubidium> after all... books are "good" notability
21:21:35 <__ln___> samu: also money is allowed in germany
21:22:36 <frosch> should work the same for windows, according to msdn docs
21:22:41 <frosch> need to look up osx and allegro
21:23:37 <frosch> problem with the scrolling was, that the mouse-warp is appended at the end of the event queue, so if ottd lags it gets multiple mouse events before the warp takes effect, which then scrolls way too fast
21:29:42 <Rubidium> hmm.. good point, in any case the me is wrong ;)
21:29:49 <frosch> hmm, osx docs say CGWarpMouseCursorPosition does not generate an event, google says it sometimes does :p
21:30:28 <frosch> planetmaker: can you test that patch on osx? if it is wrong the right-click scrolling should be completely broken :p
21:31:43 <Rubidium> it doesn't look obviously wrong, but that's about all I can say about it for now :(
21:32:28 <frosch> hmm, allegro docs are inconclusive, but i guess i can test it at least on linux
21:33:14 <frosch> nope, allegro is different
21:36:53 <frosch> planetmaker: if it fails, scrolling stops if the os mouse pointer leaves the window/reaches the screen border
21:37:08 <frosch> (i.e. os cursor and ottd cursor get out of sync)
21:37:14 <Eddi|zuHause> <__ln___> books are allowed in germany, yes <-- sometimes we burn them :p
21:37:14 <planetmaker> ok. Just started laptop. It got *incredibly* slow
21:38:07 <frosch> absolutely or relatively to what you are used to? :p
21:39:58 *** kais58 is now known as kais58|AFK
22:00:41 <planetmaker> frosch: hm, weired. I have two cursors now. Which can separate the faster I move
22:01:15 <planetmaker> and when I scroll map, the OpenTTD cursor is fixed, the system cursor keeps moving
22:02:38 <frosch> planetmaker: ok, so same as allegro :)
22:02:57 <planetmaker> and the system cursor stops at screen and I can't continue to scrol
22:03:14 <planetmaker> thus need to go back to ottd window and start scrolling anew
22:03:50 <frosch> sdl and windows with 'queued_warp = true', allegro and cocoa with 'queued_warp = false'
22:19:37 <planetmaker> frosch: yes, now the scrolling works as (or similar as) before, thus better and as it should :)
22:22:32 <frosch> he, looks like the actual lag is caused by an ai with a sporatic call to ScriptTileList::AddRectangle with a huge rectangle
22:24:22 <frosch> yup, it adds the whole map to the list :p
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22:53:16 <samu> i guess you guys are busy today with title game
23:01:02 <frosch> planetmaker: the titlegame page still says "1.4" in some places :)
23:04:08 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27166 trunk/src/script/api/script_list.cpp (2015-02-22 23:04:02 UTC)
23:04:09 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Optimise ScriptList by making use of iterators instead of looking up map-items multiple times per API call.
23:06:51 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27167 /trunk/src (6 files in 3 dirs) (2015-02-22 23:06:45 UTC)
23:06:52 <DorpsGek> -Fix: [SDL, Windows] Right-mouse-button scrolling scrolled/jumped way to far, when OpenTTD lagged during mouse event processing.
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continue to next day ⏵
