IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-01-14
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09:58:37 <supermop> can snow be added to tropic the same way as to temperate in ogfx+, that is, a setting for arctic which uses tropic sprites? Or will one no longer then be able to have desert/rainforest?
09:59:19 <V453000> ogfx+ snow is in arctic
09:59:23 <V453000> the arctic grass just turns green
09:59:47 <V453000> like having rainforest in the lowlands, deset on the hills
09:59:54 <V453000> doing that with RAWR :)
10:00:56 <supermop> not quite - just a regular tropic map, but with some snow at the top of the mountains
10:01:07 <V453000> I dont think that can be done
10:01:19 <supermop> but i recall that snow and desert use the same bit on the tile
10:01:41 <V453000> since it is the same sprite ID I would assume so too
10:01:55 <supermop> although what you describe would be nice - different placement of the rainforest and desert
10:03:55 <supermop> i wish trees hinted at the relief of the land so i could leave them on more
10:04:38 <supermop> as it is they are perfect noise camouflage at high densities, so hills are disguised when covered
10:05:56 <supermop> a means of darkening a tree sprite by x% when it is on one of the slopes that is conventionally shaded - ie left side of a hill, would be primative but very helpful
10:06:48 <supermop> better would be for trees to take average slope of their tile over a 3x3 area and shape accordingly
10:06:58 <supermop> but trees cant know this stuff anyway
10:07:01 <V453000> that would be even more awesome :D
10:07:21 <V453000> you working on your building set by the way?
10:07:46 <supermop> not really modelling for fun lately - been working and trying to do some printmaking
10:07:56 <supermop> but no one is buying the prints
10:08:20 <supermop> i'll either go to a local artist marker or give up entirely
10:08:32 <supermop> i have been documenting a lot though
10:08:43 <supermop> and today brainstorming about drawing pubs
10:09:20 <V453000> I will have a landscape newGRF within a week I hope :)
10:09:34 <V453000> well I basically already have it, just some improvements/touches/roads
10:09:50 <supermop> and whether they should be modular or if i should just model 5 or so and leave it at that
10:10:33 <supermop> houses gain a lot from modularity, but pubs are more of a landmark so i dont need to have combinatorially many generic pubs
10:10:51 <supermop> better just a few fancy ones and a few basic ones
10:10:57 <V453000> yeah that makes sense
10:11:29 <V453000> I like imagining the research you had to do to inspect pubs
10:11:33 <supermop> also the styles are so different that i dont really want bits of 1890s pubs tacked onto 1920s ones
10:11:58 <supermop> of course i will be modelling the interiors and beer taps for accuracy
10:12:36 <supermop> would be great too have a tree line
10:13:06 <supermop> no trees grow above height x, only pine trees above height x-n, etc
10:14:06 <supermop> and pines create more pines nearby, oaks create more oaks nearby
10:14:37 <V453000> sounds complex though XD
10:14:42 <V453000> all the things trees /could/ doi
10:15:58 <supermop> why not make your landscape set have bare dirt for the tiles, and grass as a type oof tree
10:16:35 <supermop> always seems silly to me to see rich green grass growing on the forest floor
10:17:27 <V453000> green grass everywhere
10:17:44 <V453000> trees are parts of city roads too I think :P
10:18:27 <supermop> grass on the sidewalks is common in many run down american cities
10:19:17 <supermop> and of course the deciduous trees should lose their leaves in winter
10:19:28 <supermop> but all these tree dreams aside
10:19:45 <supermop> are you rendering or drawing your landscape?
10:22:56 <planetmaker> <supermop> can snow be added to tropic the same way as to temperate in ogfx+, that is, a setting for arctic which uses tropic sprites? Or will one no longer then be able to have desert/rainforest? <-- desert and snow tiles share the same sprite ID
10:23:13 <planetmaker> thus you can replace desert by snow, if you desire
10:25:07 <supermop> i feared as much, planetmaker
10:27:03 <supermop> why not have desert by the sea so we can make sand dunes?
10:28:36 <planetmaker> supermop, you can do so, in the SE
10:30:54 <planetmaker> except the coast tile itself, though... and why: no-one made OpenTTD understand that :)
10:31:26 <supermop> what about shady trees on the shady side of a hill? how hard is that?
10:32:40 <supermop> the only input my fiance ever has given on openttd is that the trees are too much noise, but when i asked her to write a patch for it she said no way
10:34:47 <supermop> V453000: instead of dirt just add a ring of reddish brown fallen leaves or pineneedles to tree sprites and you'd get an ok approximation of a forest floor
10:46:06 <supermop> ok im off for the evening
10:53:33 <b_jonas> yes, it would be nice to have a way to make the trees invisible but still keep their stump visible so I can tell which squares have trees
12:02:33 <planetmaker> V453000, functional features cannot really be done with landscape anyway. And turned into a baseset... that means touching every line anyway ;)
12:02:49 <planetmaker> basesets have different code than newgrfs
12:03:13 <planetmaker> but a simple search&replace does the trick, though. Mostly
12:03:31 <planetmaker> but a baseset simply does not *replace* anything ;)
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12:10:57 <V453000> is there some specific size/stuff of base set sprites how they must look? or is the size of them variable?
12:11:09 <V453000> like, do I have to have my landscape sprites in some certain boxes/sizes?
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12:29:47 <planetmaker> landscape sprites are landscape sprites
12:29:59 <planetmaker> not sure what you're asking :)
12:31:07 <planetmaker> the sprites have no other requirements than for newgrfs
12:31:27 <V453000> so if I have a sprite sheet for a newGRF, it is just as useful for base set
12:31:42 <planetmaker> yes, spritesheets can be the same
12:31:49 <planetmaker> referencing them looks slightly different
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12:33:15 <planetmaker> it's different for vehicles, houses and industries... there are very specific requirements on how to compose them, how many views and construction stages they have
12:36:15 <planetmaker> a train wagon either has 8 or 4 views. You can't choose how many it has. Some have 4, others have 8. No choice
12:36:39 <V453000> ah right, symmetrical ones
12:37:09 <V453000> but in case industries, if I just replace the parts, and make sure they fit together in all the various possibilities?
12:37:25 <planetmaker> the coal mine has a fixed layout. It has 3 different sprites for the animation of the moving cable. No changing the amount or the tile they're used on
12:37:45 <planetmaker> some industries share ground tiles. They must fit all
12:38:42 <V453000> I am already looking at the ogfx-base png that someone linked me to on the forums
12:38:45 <planetmaker> and yes, coal mine, ore smelter, factory... they have different layouts composed from the very same sprites. It must fit for all those
12:38:52 <V453000> for the landscape sprite IDs I replace
12:40:08 <planetmaker> in a base set, you also only attach a sprite to each ID for each other sprite, house, vehicle, industry... :) You basically need no intelligent code at all
12:40:23 <planetmaker> the only somewhat intelligent code is in the extra grf of base sets
12:40:38 <planetmaker> which define rivers and signals
12:40:43 <V453000> yeah I saw that too :)
12:40:56 <V453000> all RAWR does is this, too
12:40:57 <V453000> replace FARM_8_0(4259, "gfx/RAWR_8bpp.png") { template_LANDSCAPE_x1(0,17) } alternative_sprites(FARM_8_0, ZOOM_LEVEL_NORMAL, BIT_DEPTH_32BPP, "gfx/RAWR_0000.png") { template_LANDSCAPE_x1(0,17) } alternative_sprites(FARM_8_0, ZOOM_LEVEL_IN_4X, BIT_DEPTH_32BPP, "gfx/RAWR_0000.png") { template_LANDSCAPE_x4(0,17) }
12:41:29 <planetmaker> V453000, can I have screenies of rawr also in 2x and 1x of the same scenes?
12:41:36 <planetmaker> and maybe 0.5 and 0.25x?
12:42:05 <V453000> ah, basically all of them
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12:42:18 <planetmaker> well, yeah. You know why.... thinking of pota-ghat ;)
12:42:47 <V453000> what are you thinking? :D
12:43:07 <planetmaker> "show me that it looks better" :P
12:44:08 <V453000> well the textures are quite bad at the moment but it is a lot more readable as in what is where :)
12:44:24 <planetmaker> yes, the 4x look excellent
12:47:04 <V453000> might take a while to get there
12:47:11 <V453000> but there they shall appear
12:48:56 <planetmaker> Hm... the / and \ coast lines are slightly too straight for my liking :)
12:48:57 <V453000> about everything is going to look different, but yeah
12:49:04 <planetmaker> the | look much better
12:49:08 <V453000> especially coasts getting re-rendered right now XD
12:49:28 <V453000> actually, getting compiled atm :)
12:50:06 <planetmaker> you also should test with a recent nightly. I saw that frosch activated the totally unused 2nd type of rocks for usage :)
12:50:29 <V453000> yeah, because I told him that I didnt see the 2nd set of rocks ever used XD
12:50:37 <V453000> atm I got both rocks look the same, but changing that quickly :)
12:51:02 <V453000> it was complete coincidence, I basically just defined only rocks2, rocks1 were only grass :)
12:51:08 <planetmaker> I thought already of changing that when I made OpenGFX... dunny why I forgot :)
12:52:58 <V453000> I have setup a super nice infrastructure which lets me replace e.g. grass everywhere with just a few clicks and about 1.5 hr of rendering/compiling/stuff
12:53:06 <V453000> sooo I might really change a lot of things still :D
12:53:27 <V453000> replacing all grass now :) trying how nice will it be in x1
12:53:37 <V453000> currently the repetitions at x1 are killing it
12:53:41 <V453000> and well not only in x1
12:56:13 <V453000> 1 of 4096 pixels is pure white WARNING WARNING :D
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18:34:53 <Alberth> clicking at random urls? nobody
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18:42:10 <Supercheese> Well, at least it's youtube and not some obfuscated tinyurl or whatnot
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18:48:14 <Alberth> spiffy new landscape V
18:48:44 <LordAro> you guys seen this yet?
18:48:58 <LordAro> somewhat "old news", but impressive nonetheless
18:49:24 <Alberth> you don't need minecraft to build computers :p
18:49:36 <Supercheese> will the rawr water be animated or static?
18:50:22 * Rubidium sees that Supercheese volunteers for making it animated
18:50:25 <V453000> might try to grab wetrail mask
18:50:57 <Rubidium> ... unless I'm wrong ;)
18:51:16 <Supercheese> could just use the water cycle colors in the mask file
18:51:20 <Supercheese> no idea how that would look though
18:51:37 <Supercheese> possibly very bad :(
18:51:45 <V453000> will try my own wetrail water. :)
18:52:04 <frosch123> LordAro: someone made a complete 24hour cycle digital clock
18:52:26 <V453000> but from what I saw at 8bpp CC mask, :/
18:52:37 <Rubidium> frosch123: how accurate was it? ;)
18:56:02 <frosch123> he, i didn't know we had an official youtube channel with a let's play series :p
18:57:10 <LordAro> damn, was that livestream 3 years ago now?
18:57:47 <frosch123> planetmaker: is that related to the g+ group?
18:59:28 <frosch123> yeah, someone tried to link to every tutorial possible
19:09:18 <frosch123> V453000: you know how to replace the 3-corners-raised shores?
19:09:50 <V453000> what, that is possible?
19:10:08 <V453000> also can a base set do that?
19:10:24 <frosch123> yes, it's even done for the original basesets in openttd.grf
19:10:45 <V453000> is it in the extra grf?
19:10:58 <V453000> in other words which sprite IDs are there?
19:11:04 <frosch123> wrt. what is possibly, you should take a look at ogfx, it does about the maximum a baseset can do
19:11:07 <frosch123> shores, canals, rivers, ...
19:12:09 <V453000> oh yeah it is in ogfx-extra
19:13:25 <frosch123> you cannot use "replace", you have to use "replace_new"
19:13:32 <frosch123> it does not take numbers in the range 20xx
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20:01:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i wonder if there's a irc client plugin that automatically expands tinyurls to their original...
20:51:42 <FLHerne> dreck: Hi (belatedly)
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21:09:10 <FLHerne> Was trying to get the stove to light
21:09:28 <FLHerne> Very windy here, keeps blowing smoke down the chimney :-(
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21:29:43 <glx> wind should do the opposite
21:30:28 <glx> with venturi effect or something like that
21:33:13 <FLHerne> glx: It's fine when the fire's actually burning ok, but when the air in the flue's still cold it doesn't seem to
21:33:35 <FLHerne> Probably I'm just doing it all wrong, not had this thing very long
21:33:59 <glx> maybe you can close it or something
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