IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-12-09
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12:43:13 <andythenorth> that can be very bad news
12:43:21 <andythenorth> tyre explosions kill people fairly frequently
12:52:54 <Jinassi> backstory: tyre was rethreaded poorly and steel wire wall collapsed/burst open. They ended up shooting it with a small caliber rifle to deflate it and change it
12:53:38 <Jinassi> its cheaper to rethread these types of tyres in certain countries, then to buy a new one
12:54:14 <juzza1> I like that solution - if it's broken, shoot it
12:54:14 <Jinassi> Picture is not from CZ, it's from Africa
12:54:52 <Jinassi> new tyre is probably cheaper in Europe, than to rethread it
12:55:30 <Jinassi> would you go thee and deflate it by hand up close?
12:55:42 <Jinassi> that thing could kill you if it would pop
12:56:25 <andythenorth> long sharp stick
12:56:34 <andythenorth> definitely not a bad idea in any way
12:57:02 <Jinassi> where would the stick go once there is a sudden increase in pressure on the pointy side?
12:57:46 <andythenorth> nah, pressure flows around the pointy bit
12:57:56 <andythenorth> and you could have a big non-pointy bit on your end
12:58:06 <andythenorth> or place nails on the floor, then drive over them
12:58:20 <andythenorth> or one of those devices the police use to shred car tyres (stinger?)
12:58:31 <Jinassi> there are plates made especially for that
12:58:57 <andythenorth> apart from the occasional actual sad death, that site is quite instructive
12:59:21 <Jinassi> look at all those trucks wanting belly rubs lol
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13:18:39 <planetmaker> V453000, beware what you say. They brought you the frigging railroad in the first place :P
13:20:53 <andythenorth> ˚ ° < peter1138 which is correct? :P
13:21:33 <andythenorth> ° this one, right?
13:22:30 <V453000> I cant even tell the difference
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13:25:04 <andythenorth> ˚ is much smaller than ° in my font
13:25:04 <Jinassi> V453000: Love how far your baby has come
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13:54:39 <Jinassi> GG, this is a good example of an overengineered game. can't even grow a town in vanilla past 30k, but have no issues in citybuilder, throwing everything at it and going past 300k with ease.
14:00:48 <Xaroth|Work> Jinassi: you're always welcome to supply patches to improve it
14:01:21 <andythenorth> overengineered? o_O
14:01:28 <Jinassi> Not that, i am unsuccesful in vanilla. there must be something i am doing wrong
14:02:00 <andythenorth> dunno, so many variables in your sandbox
14:02:11 <andythenorth> town behaviour, map, newgrfs
14:02:26 <Jinassi> not that, s1 is default vanilla behaviour
14:02:44 <andythenorth> citybuilder probably adjusts town growth rate
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14:03:34 <Jinassi> true, which makes it blatantly easy to throw more and more to it to make it grow, yet in vanilla it matters how much can you take from it.
14:04:35 <andythenorth> afaik, the town growth (in non-desert, non-arctic towns) depends on (1) collecting from 5 stations within defined period (2) the base growth rate of the town (‘grow faster’ or not)
14:06:39 <Jinassi> the % transported one was probably right
14:07:10 <andythenorth> did you fund buildings?
14:07:19 <andythenorth> also you have a lot of space occupied by stations :)
14:07:36 <Jinassi> that could be it, hampers expansion
14:10:14 <andythenorth> Jinassi: in my last game, without trying I got a 19k town with only one pax station in the town
14:10:26 <andythenorth> and only 5 trains servicing it
14:10:33 <Jinassi> so placement is most important
14:10:35 <andythenorth> also some industry pickups nearby
14:10:56 <andythenorth> I was using TaI newgrf, dunno what Pikka has done to town growth in that grf
14:11:02 <andythenorth> but the town grows every 2 days
14:11:25 <andythenorth> I transported 159 of 3775 pax in last month
14:11:34 <andythenorth> and 44 of 634 mail
14:11:35 <Eddi|zuHause> Jinassi: the original road layout is the worst for growing towns
14:11:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Jinassi: a lot of places that could be used for houses ends up being occupied with pointless roads
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14:14:44 <Jinassi> 1st one was sustained by me, funded it like crazy, 2nd picture, only roads were placed for a few radiuses and then let alone to expand
14:15:17 <Jinassi> both came to 30k population, altough i did not use so much space for stations in 2nd pic
14:15:38 <Jinassi> yeah, original layout does doom it
14:16:11 <Jinassi> am a stubborn man, lol, will burn a few more hours after restart to try gain
14:17:25 <andythenorth> a proportion of towns (cities?) are randomly assigned to grow faster at game start AFAIK
14:17:28 <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: player-side, original is the best actually, if you build your own roads :P
14:21:11 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: you can't make a 3x3 or 4x4 grid with original
14:22:07 <V453000> you can if you delete the existing roads and build new?
14:22:23 <V453000> but you still get the bonus for the setting, and you have 3x3 anyway
14:22:42 <V453000> I personally hate any of the grids so I would build it more organic anyway, but still
14:22:49 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: it will build roads into your 3x3 grid making it a 1x1 grid
14:23:09 <V453000> assume town is not allowed to build roads
14:23:23 <V453000> if you want to care about it, that setting should be obvious
14:23:34 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, that may work
14:23:59 <V453000> im not sure what bonus does it get
14:24:04 <V453000> does it just renew buildings more often?
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14:24:49 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i generally use "better", and only touch the roads if it bothers me, like two roads not connecting because they are 1 tile offset
14:25:42 <V453000> so the bonus is quite substantial
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15:27:34 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: that's generally what happens when you value abstract game mechanics too much
15:30:29 <V453000> it can be made to look nice when it isnt so uniform :)
15:34:58 <Xaroth|Work> Jinassi: some of your bus stops are empty, I would suggest adding more bus stops and making sure there's almost always something waiting there
15:48:39 <andythenorth> does that affect growth significantly?
15:49:12 <argoneus> in a thread "what is your favourite newgrf combination"
15:57:13 <Eddi|zuHause> who would have ever expected that someone named V435000 would play with NUTS and YETI
15:57:20 <Xaroth|Work> andythenorth: if you always have vehicles loading/unloading it stimulates town growth
15:57:23 <Xaroth|Work> or at least it used to
15:57:45 <Xaroth|Work> you could have 4 bus stations in a small circle (station-walk a bit if needed) and turbo-feed a town from 100 to a few thousand in just a few years
15:59:00 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't have to transport all passengers to get the town growth bonus
15:59:16 <andythenorth> you just have to collect
15:59:22 <andythenorth> once a month or similar
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16:00:08 <V453000> argoneus: what is wrong with that? :)
16:02:49 <argoneus> V453000: it was just funny, since I read the post first and then the name
16:03:02 <argoneus> it's like being in a topic "what's your favourite OS" and having bill gates post "Windows" without noticing the game
16:03:23 <V453000> doesnt sound that funny to me
16:16:40 <Jinassi> Go to mac store, fart profoundly. Blame them for not using windows. Profit.
16:17:32 <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't work properly in languages other than english
16:17:59 <Jinassi> i..uh..didn't plan that ahead lol
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16:56:35 <V453000> good plan though Jinassi :D
16:56:54 <V453000> I especially liked the profoundly part
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19:23:24 <Wolf01> so... PSN cracked again
19:26:13 <Rubidium> Wolf01: make you think whether it was uncracked in the first place
19:26:33 <Rubidium> or is it just like wikileaks; just leak one thing every day instead of everything at once?
19:30:39 <Wolf01> nah, cracker groups anounced it, maybe it happened some time ago, but it's not the same one of the last time
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19:41:35 <andythenorth> so will a higher clock speed CPU drain my battery faster? o_O
19:42:02 <andythenorth> but maybe it gets the work done faster, so can nap relatively more of the time :P
19:42:43 <Wolf01> I read: "so will a higher train speed drains my clock's battery faster?" and I was wtf?!
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19:44:06 <Rubidium> not necessarily, but it depends on lots and lots of things
19:45:09 <Rubidium> though generally speaking: higher clock speed -> more changes -> higher heat production ( = more energy used)
19:45:43 <Rubidium> in the end it heavily depends on the case itself
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19:48:11 <Rubidium> if it's IO/memory heavy, then a higher clock speed will probably not help because it will just waste energy waiting on data
19:48:56 <Wolf01> also you need to raise the processor's Vss because of the shape of the signal, higher clock means that the signal could not reach the "1" state before going to "0" again, so you get a sequence of "0" "maybe 1" "0" and so on
19:50:59 <Quatroking> simcity 2k free on origirenign
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19:51:58 <Rubidium> yet another game from the era the games were still good ;)
19:53:17 <Supercheese> So, then games were good, now they're great?
19:53:54 <Rubidium> to be serious... I'm kinda stuck in that era
19:54:18 <frosch123> but i don't consider s2k good ...
19:54:50 <Quatroking> it has a neat spacecraft on the cover tho
19:55:05 <Wolf01> I don't consider even TTD good, but they are more enjoyable than most of today games
19:55:09 <Rubidium> SimFarm, SimTower, SimCity (1/2000), Caesar II, Transport Tycoon
19:55:28 <Rubidium> for some reason the stuff a decade after that became significantly worse
19:55:50 <andythenorth> so currently I have 2.8Ghz i7 dual-core, from Dec 2013, get ~9 hours battery life on typical use
19:56:02 <andythenorth> considering buying 3.0Ghz i7 dual-core, late 2014
19:56:18 <Rubidium> got the exact types?
19:56:22 <andythenorth> could look them up
19:56:44 <glx> more recent can be more efficient even with faster clock
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19:59:15 <andythenorth> 22 nm "Haswell" 2.8 GHz Intel "Core i7" processor (4558U) vs.
19:59:15 <andythenorth> 22 nm "Haswell" 3.0 GHz Intel "Core i7" processor (4578U)
19:59:25 <andythenorth> look like similar part numbers
20:00:18 <andythenorth> how do I find TDP? :P
20:00:48 <Rubidium> interestingly the 4578 has half the L2 of 4558
20:01:22 <Rubidium> and apparantly twice the maximum memory bandwidth ?!?
20:01:53 <andythenorth> apple have it specced as 4MB in both cases
20:02:04 <andythenorth> oh no, that’s L3
20:02:18 <Rubidium> might be that the comparison website I found was wrong
20:04:57 <andythenorth> so probably a non-interesting difference in battery life
20:06:01 <andythenorth> the difference on geekbench between the two macs is also marginal
20:06:10 <andythenorth> I hate it when computing maxes out :P
20:06:17 <andythenorth> apple hit this every few years
20:06:28 <andythenorth> can’t make it go faster and/or have longer battery life
20:06:56 <Rubidium> looks like it took Intel a year to squeeze a few tenths of GHz extra CPU speed by improving their production processes
20:07:27 <Rubidium> but then... who's competing with Intel on x86?
20:08:19 <andythenorth> the laptop I bought last year kicked battery life from 3 hours to 9 hours, and lost what feels like 0.5KG of weight
20:08:33 <andythenorth> this year santa cannot deliver the same effect ;P
20:09:10 <andythenorth> christmas newgrf & GS
20:09:15 <Rubidium> andythenorth: send him a letter
20:09:16 <andythenorth> you have one sleigh
20:09:29 <andythenorth> and have to deliver once to every house on the map
20:09:40 <Rubidium> Santa Claus, North Pole, H0H 0H0, Canada
20:10:29 <Rubidium> andythenorth: but Apple seems to be in the business of getting things larger again
20:11:04 <andythenorth> mostly they seem to want to make ridiculous “… Air"
20:11:16 <andythenorth> which are about as powerful as a desk calculator
20:11:38 <andythenorth> maybe ipad plus will replace my laptop
20:12:01 <andythenorth> ipad is shockingly bad
20:13:22 <Rubidium> iMac with 5K display... for only half of 5K$
20:15:47 <Rubidium> can't find anything for 25k$ anymore
20:16:04 <Rubidium> even the most beefed up Mac Pro is just over 22k$
20:20:58 <andythenorth> but what would I do with it :P
20:21:04 <andythenorth> compile FIRS faster?
20:21:11 <andythenorth> I considered buying one to run as a remote compiler :P
20:21:36 <andythenorth> we edit multi-stream HD video on iMacs at work
20:21:45 <andythenorth> no Mac Pro needed
20:24:54 <peter1138> Apple have to be different.. everyone else is pushing 4K, they come along with 5K...
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20:56:06 <peter1138> So what is the resolution they use?
20:56:13 <peter1138> 5K doesn't mean anything :S
20:56:44 <frosch123> 100 x 50 pixels, isn't it?
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21:34:18 <Eddi|zuHause> "license and registration, please"
21:34:47 * andythenorth waits for back ups
21:35:21 <Eddi|zuHause> schedule backups at a time you're not using the computer
21:35:54 <andythenorth> these are a bit more urgent :P
21:36:07 <andythenorth> disk repair reported unrecoverable errors earlier
21:36:48 <andythenorth> and the backup volume keeps filling :P
21:37:19 <andythenorth> oh well, some Windows VMs aren’t backed up, nvm
21:40:01 <Eddi|zuHause> who needs those...
21:40:11 <andythenorth> on the interwebs aren’t they
21:40:29 <andythenorth> taking up 20% of my HD :P
21:53:39 <andythenorth> “There are no back doors or anything third parties could use for monitoring your activity"
21:55:36 <andythenorth> there’s an Android port of ottd?
21:56:34 <__ln__> frosch123: probably more easily than other devices. it doesn't need jailbreaking to run your own software, first of all.
21:57:04 <frosch123> i just want to know how i can ship my spyware to it
21:57:38 <andythenorth> open source, provably more secure
21:59:18 <peter1138> Also, that mouse...
22:00:59 <peter1138> We believe in piracy
22:01:22 <peter1138> Unique and independent OS with nothing released for it.
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22:01:50 <andythenorth> crowd funding is funny
22:01:58 <andythenorth> it’s all about how well you perform in the pitch
22:02:03 <andythenorth> and how plausible and likeable you are
22:02:42 <andythenorth> the real perfection is to be so likeable and homely that your product seems awesome
22:02:47 <andythenorth> it’s basically a hustle
22:03:01 <andythenorth> market trading passed off as craft
22:03:04 <frosch123> you should make stuff, which people buy and not use after purchase
22:03:17 <frosch123> in that case it does not need to work either
22:03:27 <andythenorth> exercise equipment
22:04:30 <andythenorth> I use my DAB radio
22:04:42 <peter1138> Mine never has a good enough signal.
22:04:44 <andythenorth> iPod accessories
22:04:54 <andythenorth> kitchen equipment
22:05:38 <peter1138> the electric bread/cheese/meat slicer?
22:05:43 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: so that is already overfunded by 400%?
22:05:47 <peter1138> the food processor with 25 different attachments
22:05:54 <andythenorth> ho, ottd is light on commits recently
22:06:08 <andythenorth> is the rivers patch any good? The screenies look good
22:06:17 <peter1138> because there's no daylength or infrastructure sharing
22:06:31 <frosch123> and no bug fixes :p
22:06:33 <peter1138> and no realistic scale
22:06:47 <peter1138> that's just a feature
22:07:17 <Eddi|zuHause> and no custom bridgeheads
22:07:35 <peter1138> no programmable signals
22:07:37 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: it is. not that they'll need to pour the rest of the money into a shredder though.
22:07:38 <andythenorth> but there is extra zoom, and extra zoom gui
22:08:10 <peter1138> __ln__, will it never be sold outside of this funding thing?
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22:08:24 <frosch123> andythenorth: does fish have graphics for yeti yet?
22:08:34 <frosch123> the tugboat could transport yetis
22:08:37 <frosch123> i think they can swim
22:08:46 <andythenorth> V453000 should render a giant squid holding a yeti
22:09:15 <peter1138> see, you said there's only 10 hours left
22:09:32 <V453000> actually animating tentacles is one of the hugest wtf I have yet considered
22:09:33 <peter1138> i still don't have a need for any other tablet, not sure why i'd need that one
22:09:45 <__ln__> peter1138: 10 hours is a subset of e.g. 10 months.
22:09:54 <andythenorth> V453000: tentacles are procedural no?
22:09:55 <frosch123> peter1138: wait, do you have a use for *one* tablet?
22:10:12 <andythenorth> tablets are nice for resting your coffee mug on
22:10:19 <peter1138> but they seem popular enough that they're all in the electronics stores
22:10:19 <andythenorth> if you have a nice non-slip, wipe-clean case
22:10:34 <andythenorth> because BBC Weather
22:10:56 <peter1138> kids get a bbc micro
22:11:06 <Eddi|zuHause> what happened to these table-sized "tablets"?
22:11:24 <__ln__> it boils down to: should there be more than two options in the world for a mobile OS. if everyone's fine with Android and iOS being the only choices, then fine.
22:11:46 <V453000> andythenorth: sure, if you create the procedure? :D
22:12:01 <andythenorth> __ln__: fair point, they are both terrible choices
22:12:08 <andythenorth> is Sailfish the mozilla thing
22:12:15 <andythenorth> someone showed me a mozilla tablet os
22:12:17 <__ln__> andythenorth: nope, it isn't
22:12:29 <peter1138> linux works well as a os on my netbook
22:12:33 <peter1138> that's pretty mobile
22:12:42 <peter1138> my mobile phone just needs to make bloody phone calls
22:12:47 <__ln__> it's somewhat the successor of MeeGo (developed by Nokia and to some extent Intel)
22:12:49 <peter1138> and android is pretty crappy at that :(
22:13:32 <peter1138> the macbook should have osx but i've still not found it :p
22:13:35 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: so they were allowed to carry the MeeGo development out of Nokia?
22:13:40 <andythenorth> I should send you a DVD
22:13:52 <andythenorth> right now we have office shenanigans relating to no heating + asbestos
22:13:56 <peter1138> or get me a link to download it :p
22:13:56 <andythenorth> so not a top priority :P
22:14:24 <Eddi|zuHause> asbestos doesn't burn very well in the oven? :p
22:14:26 <andythenorth> frigging ternary operator in python, I have to look it up everytime
22:14:30 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: a lot of it was licensed under GPL and other free licences. not the UI parts though.
22:14:51 <andythenorth> a if test else b
22:15:05 <andythenorth> makes sense to me
22:15:09 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: i mean, there were probably a decent number of unreleased development efforts at nokia, did they have access to those?
22:15:10 <andythenorth> but I just wrote it wrong
22:15:25 <andythenorth> silly andythenorth
22:15:47 <peter1138> nokia are clearly useless at OSes
22:16:03 <andythenorth> they should have stuck to trees
22:16:14 <andythenorth> one day there will be a phone as small as the 3210
22:16:17 <andythenorth> but with big keys
22:16:25 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: they (probably) didn't; at least nothing such has been implied in public.
22:17:08 <andythenorth> they did allow a load of staff to exit with IP
22:17:13 <andythenorth> and some seed money allegedly
22:18:53 *** luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz
22:20:42 <andythenorth> pikka zeps have fat bottoms
22:20:51 <andythenorth> they would probably break out of depots in | view
22:20:57 <andythenorth> fortunately we don’t have | depots
22:21:24 <andythenorth> nor | canals or rivers
22:21:31 <Eddi|zuHause> why worry about nonexistent problems?
22:21:44 <Eddi|zuHause> there are | half-shores
22:22:14 <andythenorth> more basking in a problem side-stepped
22:22:25 <argoneus> good night train friends
22:25:55 <Eddi|zuHause> why did you have to do that?!?
22:26:28 <andythenorth> what did I do now? o_O
22:27:39 <andythenorth> I just did the last thing I know I need to do for Squid 1.0.0
22:28:10 <andythenorth> so you’d all better try and break it, before I get it burnt to golden master and distribute the CDs
22:29:26 <andythenorth> I could fix a few more things
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22:29:35 <andythenorth> real artists ship, etc
22:30:37 <andythenorth> now I just need to release bloody Road Hog, then I can learn how GS works
23:20:39 *** jjavaholic has joined #openttd
continue to next day ⏵
