IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-12-08
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00:00:31 <dreck> hsknz well time zone is everything eh?
00:00:56 <dreck> anything you want to just talk about now? :)
00:04:05 <hsknz> well, nothing in particular
00:06:29 * dreck is just punching numbers after numbers :-s
00:21:01 <dreck> are you from new zealand hsknz?
00:44:27 <hsknz> sorry for the slow reply
00:44:55 <Eddi|zuHause> by the standard of channels like this one, this is a fast reply :p
00:45:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i've seen conversations that had replies generally after about 12 hours.
00:45:34 <dreck> hsknz thought that was what the 'nz' in your nick was for
00:45:41 <dreck> eddi 12hr is way too slow
00:46:09 <Eddi|zuHause> not when the participants are in opposite timezones :p
00:46:43 <hsknz> is there ever much dev talk here?
00:47:35 <Eddi|zuHause> usually not at 2AM, though :p
00:47:42 <Supercheese> There is also a dev channel, #openttd.dev
00:47:57 <Supercheese> not that that has seen much action lately, but it comes in bursts when it does
00:48:46 <hsknz> I would like to help out in some way, just not sure what
00:49:40 <Supercheese> well, start by setting up a successful compile/build environment if you haven't done so already
00:49:42 <Eddi|zuHause> the wiki has some entry-level projects that you can dabble in
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00:50:18 <Supercheese> past that yeah there are many improvement ideas but very few obvious "we should do this next"
00:50:51 <Eddi|zuHause> alternatively, you can do add-on development like AI/Gamescript or NewGRFs
00:50:56 * peter1138 attempts to grok dnssec
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01:58:54 <smoke_fumus> um. Why oftc though?
01:59:02 <smoke_fumus> weren't freenode good enough?
02:01:21 <LordAro> if i recall my history, no
02:02:57 <Eddi|zuHause> no, freenode was bad. i don't know why, but it was.
02:03:36 <smoke_fumus> i dunno, they dealth with spam, like, 5 years ago or so
02:04:24 <smoke_fumus> it's mostly clear there right now, lots of game-related channels
02:05:00 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but that's also when we moved away
02:05:16 <Eddi|zuHause> and it's unlikely we're moving back
02:06:55 <smoke_fumus> well obviously. With 120+ users hanging in channel it's never a good idea to move to another network unless some e-cataclysm like closure of server
02:08:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i think we moved somewhere around 2006
02:09:51 <smoke_fumus> ooooh yea. freenode were vile back then.
02:13:25 <smoke_fumus> but from my side, it's another server to add to log-in list. and i already have 10
02:21:16 <smoke_fumus> i'll be the judge of that.....
02:21:38 <smoke_fumus> anyway. Can anyone explain to me, just how the hell do i play citybuilder?
02:22:39 <Eddi|zuHause> build several stations, so the city grows faster, and then fulfill all requirements it says in the town window
02:23:43 <smoke_fumus> it still doesn't. sometimes population even shrinks back
02:24:28 <Eddi|zuHause> population can drop for a short time, because houses under construction have no population
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04:03:48 <smoke_fumus> Eddi|zuHause: internal traffic of mail and passengers count?
04:05:51 <Supercheese> any station that is visited by a vehicle should count
04:06:16 <Supercheese> as long as it is sufficiently close to the town (sign)
04:06:29 <smoke_fumus> so basically i can just spread out tonns of bus/mail stops within the city and that will cover city pop growth?
04:08:40 <smoke_fumus> also, if you guys sick to death of embedded openttd music, i can suggest Cities XL soundtrack - more specifically - pastoral, doing well 1, doing well 2, industrial revolution, all 5 gen atmo and 3 outgame themes
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04:26:45 <smoke_fumus> it's sad that almost no servers employ trams
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05:11:24 <smoke_fumus> ...city stuck at 3,428 pop
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05:21:23 <smoke_fumus> i've had it with that crap
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12:29:08 <andythenorth> needs nicer curved rivers grf :P
12:31:08 <V453000> looks very binary to me
12:31:17 <V453000> 0: flat as shit, 1: unbuildable hill
12:32:35 <andythenorth> forget the stupid TGP
12:32:37 <andythenorth> look at the rivers
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12:34:52 <V453000> but yeah rivers look nice
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12:36:29 * andythenorth looking through local folder of 1075 ottd images
12:36:38 <andythenorth> looking for one of those stupid inland seas with fishing harbour
12:36:43 <andythenorth> found a load of canadian trains
12:36:47 <andythenorth> canadian trains look nice
12:37:42 <andythenorth> also what a lot of things I have drewed
12:37:49 <andythenorth> and drewed then deleted
12:39:58 <V453000> ok my save folder seems to contain 3367 saves ._.
12:40:16 <andythenorth> every screenie or whatever since 2008
12:41:44 <andythenorth> so many bloody ships
12:45:18 <andythenorth> Iron Horse is currently my favourite thing to have made
12:45:23 <andythenorth> so much less waste
12:45:27 <andythenorth> trains are so much easier to draw
12:45:38 <andythenorth> and designed from day 0 for gameplay
12:45:46 <andythenorth> not just to include vehicles I found on the internet
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12:51:50 <V453000> I honestly dont quite like the graphics, they lack contrast
12:52:07 <V453000> the "use all the shades" thing I repeat all the time
12:52:23 <andythenorth> I am favouring the fact that mostly I didn’t have to draw them
12:52:56 <andythenorth> also I am dubious
12:53:04 <andythenorth> there are not many unused shades in the CC range
12:53:09 <andythenorth> looking at the buy menu sprites
12:53:46 <andythenorth> there is a bit of hotchpotch though, because sprites are multiple sources and authors
12:54:14 <andythenorth> if the ones that bother you match the ones that bother me, I’ll fix them :P
12:54:19 <andythenorth> otherwise going to look the other way
12:55:12 <V453000> will have a more detailed look later
12:55:29 <andythenorth> gen 1 Flat Car, I am looking at you
12:55:43 <andythenorth> also the gen 3 metro
12:56:18 <andythenorth> hmm some sprites are buy menu clipped also
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13:21:32 <Marshy> Andy, playing FIRS in sub arctic, the Recycling plant industry produces manufacturing supplies and scrap metal, however on the cargo flow screen it states building supplies and not scrap metal, a possible bug?
13:21:51 <Marshy> I'm at work but can send you a screen later tonight if you want
13:23:01 <andythenorth> it’s a bug in OpenTTD
13:23:09 <andythenorth> it can’t handle the newgrf spec correctlty
13:23:28 <V453000> having an industry randomize outputs is wtf.
13:23:33 <andythenorth> yes, that’s why I did it
13:23:44 <Marshy> Oh no worries, wasn't sure
13:23:48 <andythenorth> you get 3 per set :P
13:24:26 <andythenorth> FIRS BAD FEATURES: randomised output, supplies, farms
13:26:35 <V453000> 1. useless cargoes, 2. supplies are very simple / only have 3 stages which is boring after a while, 3. randomized output perhaps :P
13:26:45 <V453000> supplies as a concept are great :)
13:28:59 <V453000> ignorance wont lead to 2.X :P :D
13:30:24 <peter1138> Fook, it's got cold suddenly :S
13:31:00 <andythenorth> one day I’ll find the right key combo
13:32:06 * andythenorth needs typing gloves for this cold
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14:11:42 <Felicitu1> hi, is there any way to place tracks by clicking twice (once for the start and once for the end) instead of dragging with holding the mouse button down?
14:11:56 <Felicitu1> this would make playing much easier on laptops
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15:07:53 <planetmaker> Felicitu1, no, there currently is not
15:08:34 <V453000> get a fucking mouse XD
15:09:58 * planetmaker has no problem to work w/o mouse
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15:12:34 <V453000> sure me neither, unless I am expected to actually _do_ something XD
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15:19:54 <andythenorth> FWIW, I have no problem on trackpad
15:20:54 <andythenorth> but on a low-quality trackpad, a small trackpad, or if you had impaired fine-motor movement, it would be hard to build with drag
15:23:48 <V453000> ._. who are these people
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15:43:44 <smoke_fumus> Ugh. I still don't get city builder. I mean i do basics, but why in the love of god does it razes results monthly?
16:01:43 <frosch123> maybe that's the reason why there are about 20 different things that call themself citybuilder :p
16:02:33 <V453000> solution = dont play it? :P
16:04:17 <andythenorth> more GS needed :P
16:06:36 <Felicitu1> V453000: even if I had a mouse, I could not properly use it as I lack a table in my tent
16:06:46 *** Felicitu1 is now known as Felicitus
16:06:59 <V453000> idk I use mouse on various surfaces all the time :D
16:07:14 <Felicitus> won't work for me, so I asked.
16:07:39 <frosch123> Felicitus: i think you are looking for the polyline patch on the forums
16:08:47 <Felicitus> sounds nice. should try that once I have a proper internet connection and some cpu cycles to compile ;)
16:25:12 <smoke_fumus> frosch123: btpro.nl servers
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17:05:01 <andythenorth> if it was measured in hours
17:05:18 <andythenorth> there would be fewer vehicle types needed
17:05:30 <V453000> how would years count?
17:05:35 <andythenorth> just working it ou
17:06:00 <andythenorth> assuming you play 100 year game
17:06:06 <andythenorth> instead it would be only 4 years
17:06:15 <andythenorth> so one generation of vehicles would be enough
17:06:21 <andythenorth> buy menu would be smaller
17:06:29 <andythenorth> newgrf authors would have much easier life
17:06:37 <andythenorth> industry sets would not have to cover wide range of eras
17:07:16 <andythenorth> it would solve all the daylength requests in one stroke
17:08:19 <peter1138> Quick, sometone get andythenorth his medicine
17:08:23 <andythenorth> people who want a 100 year game could play the current equivalent of a 2400 year game
17:08:33 <andythenorth> it’s about 3.5 years / hour?
17:08:59 <andythenorth> that’s 30 days of 24/7 play to do 100 years
17:09:05 <andythenorth> I think that’s about right for the foamers
17:09:16 <andythenorth> a few might die in that period
17:09:30 <andythenorth> someone check my maths?
17:33:28 <Rubidium> well, one normal game year takes about a day, so at a factor of 24 you'd end up around that number
17:35:05 <Rubidium> @calc 24*100*365*74*30/1000/86400
17:35:05 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 22.5083333333
17:36:26 <Rubidium> (dl factor, years, day-in-year, ticks-per-day, ms-per-tick, ms-per-s, s-per-day)
17:36:38 <andythenorth> do that, call it version 2
17:37:10 <andythenorth> don’t worry about scaling industry production or anything
17:37:15 <andythenorth> nor vehicle speeds
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17:45:54 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27077 trunk/src/lang/danish.txt (2014-12-08 17:45:49 UTC)
17:45:55 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:56 <DorpsGek> danish - 10 changes by manframe
18:14:43 <smoke_fumus> istill don't get why i can't set only specific cargo to be taken and leave rest of cargo
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18:17:06 <smoke_fumus> andythenorth: i cannot set an order to a train to, say "load only goods from this station but do not load passengers and mail, transfer ones you got from another station"
18:19:02 <smoke_fumus> which is...well retarded. don't you think such features should've been implemented in TRANSPORT sim
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18:22:12 <frosch123> why does your train transport pax&mail in the first place?
18:23:34 <frosch123> i have not seen any such feature request in the past 10 years, no idea when something like that would be needed
18:23:51 <frosch123> i rather suspect that you are using a passenger engine in a cargo train or something
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18:27:45 <smoke_fumus> frosch123: you thinking about it from the completely other side. it shouldn't be your concern why nobody requested it before, however it should concern you that such feature is missing in the first place - cargo tables DO exist irl you know?
18:28:27 <frosch123> huh? if a single guy requests a feature, i think to not add that
18:28:32 <frosch123> it adds bloat, and noone uses it
18:29:18 <smoke_fumus> frosch123: this is what's happening right now. http://screencast.com/t/C0iAGwAKHsU a train hauls passengers/mail from finbugrg east to ratbridge onto transfer. Another train should do the same + take all excess cargo from ratbridge but do not load any passengers from there
18:30:14 <smoke_fumus> but because i don't have ability to set specific wagons to take/don't take cargo from the city hub, it, like a retard, takes half of transfered passengers/mail and hauls them between two spots
18:30:24 <smoke_fumus> without offloading
18:30:34 <frosch123> maybe enable cargodist
18:32:54 <smoke_fumus> frosch123: where's the button for that?
18:34:23 <frosch123> in the settings, it's written on that page
18:35:41 <smoke_fumus> uh.......i.......don't get it
18:38:00 <smoke_fumus> counter-intuitive as fuck
18:39:38 <andythenorth> what does irl have to do with anything
18:40:00 <andythenorth> orders in TTD aren’t per-vehicle
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18:42:05 <andythenorth> also there is a money-back guarantee on the game if not satisfied :)
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18:47:13 <smoke_fumus> andythenorth: too bad you can't sue for moral damage
18:51:40 <smoke_fumus> hsknz: there is not such a thing in any world-wide laws as 'lost time due self-incompetence so i blame them for my lost time' lawsuit. Moral damage due poor response and enhanced frustration canbe issued
18:51:46 <smoke_fumus> but only for commercial products
18:55:36 <frosch123> you can sue based on enhanced frustration? why does ms still exist?
18:57:18 <smoke_fumus> oh well adobe exists because of their superior PR and also because they made 3 more fortunes from buying whole Macromedia company (they were ones who created both flash and macromedia director)
18:57:23 <frosch123> does it also apply to goverments?
18:58:49 <smoke_fumus> i didn't said you can sue based on enhanced frustration only - if that is because of your own incometence, which can always be proven against you - no. I was talking about advertised product failing to meet expectations and subsequently creating income loss due poor overall product design and objective inability to handle it the way it will work as advertised
18:59:09 <smoke_fumus> which subsequently generates enhanced frustration
18:59:50 <smoke_fumus> ...sometimes i think i should've gone to a law college and take a lawyer proffesion.
19:00:10 <frosch123> yeah, you sound like that :p
19:01:04 <smoke_fumus> on the other hand i sometimes think i should've taken psychologist proficency, because i am also somewhat good at that. But no. Game design for me.
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19:09:01 <andythenorth> there is a standard irony
19:09:10 <andythenorth> that words like ‘proficiency’ will be mis-spelt
19:09:22 <andythenorth> ‘atention to detail’ I see quite often
19:10:16 <b_jonas> do you read lots of CVs?
19:17:13 <smoke_fumus> andythenorth: english's not my native language >_<
19:17:27 <andythenorth> well in that case you’re pretty good at it
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19:50:36 <smoke_fumus> i know. I just need to finally finish all the crap, earn enough money and move the hell out to either uk or us. US is better obviously, but that greencard bullshit is tedious
19:52:18 <andythenorth> and it’s lovely weather
19:53:03 <frosch123> i was at a university with a lot of snow in the winter
19:53:14 <frosch123> everyone complained about that, except one lecturer
19:53:27 <frosch123> he said, he was in uk before, and snow is way better than rain :p
19:54:18 <andythenorth> at least the white brightens the place up a bit
19:54:57 <LordAro> "<smoke_fumus> US is better obviously..." how dare you.
19:55:58 <andythenorth> it’s ok, Nigel will never let him in
19:56:03 <andythenorth> oh but we don’t do politics here
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19:57:44 <andythenorth> LordAro: 25° in LA, 56% humidity
19:58:22 <LordAro> but what if i like complaining about the weather?
19:58:50 <Rubidium> well, in the US it can be as hot as Hell, in Europe Hell just freezes over ;)
19:59:04 <frosch123> LordAro: isn't complaing about earthquakes more interesting?
19:59:28 <LordAro> frosch123: don't get to do it very often though
19:59:49 <frosch123> complain about there not being enough earthquakes?
20:26:07 <smoke_fumus> LordAro: no disrespect meant. I meant for my personal life goals US would be far more suitable both by amount of placement choices, availble jobs, taxes, etc
20:47:28 * Rubidium wouldn't want to live in the US
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21:19:41 <NGC3982> Available jobs in the US?
21:22:10 <Rubidium> NGC3982: yes, many; just one requirement: you're a tech savvy non-American
21:22:39 <Rubidium> caveat: there a limit on the number of tech savvy non-Americans that may enter, which makes it quite unlikely to get such a job anyways
21:25:35 <Supercheese> Immigration is in a ridiculous state here, the people who and try to play by the rules get shafted, so many say screw it and ignore the regulations
21:27:02 <peter1138> Ridiculous state: US employment law...
21:27:20 <Supercheese> Most legislation is just nonsensical these days
21:27:40 <Supercheese> We'll have to start noting page counts for proposed bills using scientific notation
21:28:08 <peter1138> Some countries actually give employees some rights.
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22:22:13 <smoke_fumus> Rubidium: yes but as i've said - i am earning money at my current location. By the time i'll move i'll not be employee, but rather employer.
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22:31:46 <Eddi|zuHause> man, i replaced my mouse, and the new one is way too sensitive :p
22:34:42 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: i wonder what would happen if each native nation would get two seats in the senats, like the other states
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