IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-11-26
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07:34:22 <V453000> is coffee a bad feature?
07:35:28 <Supercheese> Coffee makes the world go round
07:37:17 <V453000> sure but I had to add coffee sprites to nuts just cause andythesouthcaffeineaddict added it to FIRS
07:39:46 <andythenorth> industries are a BAD FEATURE
07:39:50 <andythenorth> should remove them
07:39:54 <andythenorth> just do classes of pax
07:40:14 <andythenorth> illegal immigrant
08:03:14 <andythenorth> insurance salesmen
08:13:12 <andythenorth> should I detect when a truck is slowing down and show brake lights?
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09:00:47 <V453000> it is quite a bit more dangerous when nmlc isnt screaming at you white errors with 32bpp XD
09:00:56 <V453000> (just had a bunch of sprites 100% alpha :D)
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09:14:20 <V453000> =D just tankers to go
09:18:19 * argoneus pats V453000 on the head with a block signal
09:20:21 * V453000 demonstrates his discontent by creating even more sprites
09:20:40 * argoneus presses the Like button for each sprite
09:25:54 <argoneus> everyone woke up at the same time
09:26:04 <argoneus> it's like we're in space and just got out of hypersleep
09:26:24 <argoneus> technically we are in space
09:27:09 <Sheogorath> the real funny thing is: in Space they never need to wake up the captain... he is always there
09:27:27 <supermop> i've been awake for hours!
09:27:35 <argoneus> Sheogorath: not in Alien
09:27:49 <argoneus> (no other shows about space are relevant)
09:28:09 <Jinassi> at last i'm not the only one who loves red dwarf
09:29:03 <Jinassi> eevrytime i mention that series i get: "Who's that?"
09:30:28 <Sheogorath> the best thing in space shows/series is the sound in space...
09:30:48 <Sheogorath> yes, I like thoose 1930 films xD
09:30:51 <argoneus> but space isn't vacuum is it?
09:31:12 <argoneus> I thought there were *some* particles
09:31:47 <V453000> Jinassi: did you fuckers update to yeti 0.1.0 and nuts 0.7.5 yet? :P
09:33:18 <Jinassi> i'll do it now, as soon as i figure out how to update single grf's and not fuck up entire thing by messing with wonky citybuilder
09:33:51 <planetmaker> argoneus, yet you don't have sounds for knudsen numbers greater 1 ;)
09:35:16 <argoneus> planetmaker: the wiki page for that number confuses me
09:35:25 <argoneus> is it basically how "empty" an area is?
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09:36:03 <planetmaker> I probably should have phrased that differently: ... for cases where particles fly unpertubed for much longer than their own size
09:37:09 <planetmaker> so yes, in a way it's a measure of how empty something is
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09:40:17 <peter1138> "Windows found 144 updates."
09:40:24 <peter1138> Someone has not been doing their job...
09:40:33 <planetmaker> gotta love that message, don't you, peter1138 ?
09:40:57 <planetmaker> I wonder how many my VM will get next time I start it
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09:43:50 <peter1138> planetmaker, this is a production server. I'm pretty shocked.
09:44:36 <peter1138> Hmm, weird thing is it has installed updates this month.
09:44:56 <Jinassi> were they critical or optional?
09:50:23 <peter1138> Windows Update doesn't work...
09:50:36 <peter1138> So... I think it's fucked itself over.
09:50:54 <peter1138> End of life next year anyway...
09:52:07 <Sheogorath> you really should update :D
09:52:17 <Sheogorath> or switch to Linux...
09:53:23 <planetmaker> o_O on a production server that's... scary
09:53:40 <peter1138> planetmaker, it has updates.
09:53:52 <peter1138> So I think it's screwed itself, and just thinks it needs to install everything.
09:54:08 <planetmaker> he, better. But not nice either :)
09:54:46 <planetmaker> do that too often as an OS and people will start to disregard the "need to update" warnings
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09:57:55 <peter1138> I'm wrong. There were updates installed this month.
09:58:02 <peter1138> But none since 2009.
09:58:10 <peter1138> I'm going to kill this guy.
09:59:06 <peter1138> This is not one I administrate.
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10:08:03 <Jinassi> any news on the openttd frontier that I can abuse? RSS is empty :(
10:10:26 <peter1138> YETI is being incorporated into the baseset.
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11:23:30 <argoneus> openttd is getting physx support
11:23:52 <argoneus> smoke from steam trains is now gpu accelerated
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12:50:13 <argoneus> Quatroking: is that train fever?
12:50:19 <argoneus> I'm at work and it'd crash my browser if I tried opening a video
12:50:31 <Quatroking> it's thomas the train engine
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12:54:21 <peter1138> Thomas the train engine?
12:55:03 <argoneus> V453000 the doom engine
12:55:13 <peter1138> You know it's Thomas the Tank Engine, right?
12:55:41 <peter1138> Mmmh, must not buy 1TB SSD.
12:59:52 <Quatroking> peter1138, dude here in NL it's literally called Thomas the Train
13:00:25 <peter1138> V453000, around £300.
13:00:41 <peter1138> So not $600, as that'd be sold for... well, £600 :p
13:03:09 <peter1138> Hmm, pair of 1TB in RAID0?
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13:11:03 <V453000> I actually bought a 2nd 256GB ssd a month back, then found out the first one works just fine and the problem was in the motherboard
13:11:09 <V453000> sooo am considering that too
13:11:21 <V453000> obviously 4 times smaller :P
13:12:16 <argoneus> having a faulty motherboard is the most painful thing ever
13:12:22 <argoneus> building a pc from scratch is easier and less messy than replacing a mobo
13:13:24 <argoneus> also attaching heatsink to CPU is the most difficult part in building a PC :<
13:13:30 <V453000> idk I sent it back to asus and they are replacing it with the same one :)
13:13:34 <argoneus> since it's the only thing that can go really wrong
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13:17:11 <argoneus> V453000: is there a CZC in your town?
13:17:27 <argoneus> or do you have some local shops like tsbohemia/alfacomp
13:17:46 <argoneus> or something shitty like alza
13:18:16 <V453000> idk about alfacomp but the other three yes
13:35:54 <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: what's so problematic about applying heatpaste and pulling down a lever?
13:37:15 <argoneus> V453000: I already forgot where you were from :(
13:37:18 <argoneus> liberec/litomerice/olomouc?
13:37:30 <argoneus> (such is the life of a spoiled prague kid)
13:37:41 <argoneus> you need to try not to smear the paste down
13:38:03 <argoneus> if you wiggle it too much (which I always do, because it takes force to force the heatsink in the correct place), it will make air bubbles
13:38:18 <argoneus> V453000: is it liberec
13:40:12 <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: my computer came with a syringe thingie to apply heatpaste
13:40:27 <argoneus> you apply the paste on the cpu
13:40:33 <argoneus> and then need to align the heatsink on it perfectly
13:40:40 <argoneus> without wiggling it when it's in place
13:41:37 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe i'm not doing it often enough
13:41:59 <argoneus> the last time I built a computer
13:42:03 <argoneus> I had to reapply it twice
13:42:08 <argoneus> and it was fuck annoying
13:42:21 <argoneus> especially since then your entire room smells like alcohol
14:04:25 <peter1138> I've... never had to concern myself with that...
14:04:42 <peter1138> Plonk CPU in, plonk heatsink on, clamp, done.
14:05:12 <peter1138> The preapplied compound does the job, even it's not the best.
14:10:26 <argoneus> because it's kinda set in already
14:10:29 <argoneus> but if you need to replacee it
14:19:19 <peter1138> Maybe I need to reapply mine... it's kinda warm.
14:19:36 <peter1138> Anyway, the worst part wasn't the paste, it was the clips.
14:19:44 <peter1138> At least on those bloody Athlons.
14:20:08 <peter1138> The clips were so tight they sometimes broke off the socket.
14:20:26 <peter1138> And then there was a design that caused the motherboard to bend...
14:29:23 <argoneus> if it was just put on heatsink and click in
14:29:33 <argoneus> but in my case (i5 4670k)
14:29:42 <argoneus> I had to screw a special plate to my mobo's backside
14:29:47 <argoneus> then put heatsink on really tight
14:29:58 <argoneus> and screw in 4 screws in each corner
14:30:02 <argoneus> while holding the heatsink in place.
14:30:04 <peter1138> I'd prefer a screw-on method, to be honest.
14:31:35 <argoneus> peter1138: you wouldn't
14:31:37 <argoneus> look at this picture
14:31:50 <argoneus> first you put in the cpu
14:32:00 <argoneus> then apply paste on top of it
14:32:04 <argoneus> then put heatsink on top, so far so good
14:32:16 <argoneus> then you need to take the metal brace, and pull it through UNDER THE HEATSINK
14:32:24 <argoneus> and then you need to screw all the 4 screws with one hand
14:32:29 <argoneus> because you need to hold the heatsink in place the whole time
14:32:52 <argoneus> it took me like 3 tries and I had someone help me hold the heatsink
14:32:57 <peter1138> I'd prefer a screw-on method without a sucky design, to be honest.
14:33:07 <argoneus> well, it has to be like this
14:33:13 <argoneus> the heatsink is heavy and produces a lot of force
14:33:17 <peter1138> For that particular design, yes.
14:33:23 <argoneus> without this backplate security
14:33:26 <argoneus> it'd snap the mobo in half
14:33:41 <argoneus> but it was annoying as hell to do
14:33:43 <peter1138> At one point the backplates were part of the board.
14:34:10 <argoneus> for the stock heatsink and stock fan
14:34:14 <argoneus> but this is an aftermarket fan
14:34:35 <peter1138> Or vice-versa. I remember having a board that needed a backplate but didn't include them, and all the heatsinks made didn't come with one either. Confused.
14:34:57 <argoneus> not all heatsinks need one
14:35:07 <argoneus> it depends how heavy they are
14:35:13 <argoneus> this thing is like 140 cm
14:35:53 <argoneus> this heatsink is twice as large as the stock one
14:36:03 <argoneus> and it took a lot of force to secure it to the backplate
14:36:11 <argoneus> but now it's an immovable rock
14:38:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember having to deal with a backplate
14:39:42 <Eddi|zuHause> also, the AMD way of holding the heatsink seems easier than the Intel method
14:42:54 <argoneus> I just put the heatsink on the cpu
14:43:05 <argoneus> clasped two things in something
14:43:07 <argoneus> and then turned a handle
14:43:08 <peter1138> AMD should just weld the heatsink onto the CPU, they get so hot...
14:43:28 <argoneus> my i5 reaches 90C during stress testing
14:43:31 <argoneus> with an aftermarket cooler
14:48:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i toned the fans way down because it's so cool
14:49:18 <peter1138> Keep thinking about getting an i7 but... cost.
14:55:34 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: is that not a phrase? "tone down"?
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15:57:30 <argoneus> peter1138: i7 is overkill
15:57:34 <argoneus> unless you want to render things
16:03:47 <peter1138> You don't know what I do with my PC, thanks.
16:05:04 <argoneus> unless you do something crazy
16:05:07 <argoneus> your GPU will be the bottleneck
16:05:25 <argoneus> and yeah I don't, that's why I gave suggestions
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16:05:37 <argoneus> thought you didn't know, since you said that AMDs get hot
16:07:01 <peter1138> Well, okay, I was referring to the crazy TDP of the high-end AMDs.
16:08:50 <argoneus> but an i7 has a larger TDP than a FX
16:09:48 <argoneus> i7 today has a bit less
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16:10:35 <argoneus> that's an extreme though
16:11:32 <argoneus> today's i7 is leagues ahead of FX though
16:11:45 <argoneus> and I stand by my word that it's overkill :<
16:14:35 <peter1138> Have you ever tried playing Arma3? :Lp
16:15:27 <argoneus> works just fine on my cpu
16:15:52 <peter1138> Cool. It sucks on my quad core.
16:15:59 <argoneus> which quad core is that
16:16:07 <peter1138> Core 2 Quad, Q6600.
16:16:18 <argoneus> I had a Phenom II quad core before this
16:16:31 <argoneus> now I have an i5 4670k ($200)
16:17:26 <argoneus> and a high end cpu in terms of games
16:17:37 <argoneus> is good only for things like flight simulators, emulators, and games like arma
16:17:43 <argoneus> for most games the GPU is the bottleneck
16:18:04 <argoneus> (since they can't even utilize all the cores)
16:18:58 <peter1138> Meh, x-plane smells
16:19:02 <peter1138> And FSX is ancient.
16:19:16 <argoneus> but still gives i7s a run for their money
16:19:28 <argoneus> because who cares about optimization, right
16:19:39 <argoneus> project3d looks nice
16:19:55 <peter1138> Yeah but expensive.
16:20:07 <peter1138> Anyway, FSX isn't multicore, is it?
16:20:17 <peter1138> So i5 vs i7 isn't gonna be much different.
16:20:28 <peter1138> prepar3d may be though.
16:21:02 <argoneus> like, it utilizes mostly one core
16:21:05 <argoneus> and the rest doesn't do much
16:21:22 <argoneus> peter1138: are you a flightsim fan?
16:21:52 <peter1138> Not hugely, but I do like to play FSX occasionally.
16:21:54 <argoneus> if I wanted to play mostly arma/flightsim/etc
16:22:04 <argoneus> then getting a top notch i7 is fine I guess
16:22:19 <argoneus> I just dislike when people get i7 for the latest call of duty
16:22:20 <peter1138> (I do even own a copy of it, heh)
16:22:27 <argoneus> and things like that
16:22:29 <argoneus> because it's wasted money
16:22:34 <peter1138> Meh, I prefer Doom as my FPS :)
16:22:48 <argoneus> I'm a counter striker myself :P
16:23:13 <peter1138> I have CS, but... meh
16:23:25 <argoneus> the key to having fun in CS
16:23:33 <argoneus> is playing with a stable group of friends who don't rage and can play the game
16:23:45 <argoneus> I'm a lucky member of such a group :D
16:24:19 <argoneus> the community otherwise is cyka kurwa gringo :(
16:26:51 <peter1138> Flight sims seem to be stuck rendering a massive world that you can barely see...
16:28:19 <argoneus> they don't utilize the gpu properly
16:28:24 <argoneus> so it's your CPU stuck rendering all those things
16:28:48 <argoneus> normally the more buildings there are on a map
16:28:51 <argoneus> the more your GPU has to draw
16:28:56 <argoneus> but in FSX you need a better CPU
16:29:20 <peter1138> FSX predates some techniques to move load from CPU to GPU, though.
16:29:40 <peter1138> X-Plane and Prepar3d don't, but last time I tried X-Plane it was a slide-show.
16:29:51 <peter1138> flightgear's no better.
16:29:52 <argoneus> I haven't really tried xplane
16:30:05 <argoneus> it's hard to obtain a..... testing version
16:30:13 <peter1138> There's a demo of x-plane.
16:30:14 <argoneus> and it doesn't have that many addon airplanes
16:30:25 <argoneus> in FSX my game runs smoothly with the stock airplanes
16:30:31 <argoneus> but load a pmdg 737-800
16:30:33 <argoneus> and it's a slideshow
16:30:39 <argoneus> well, not with my current cpu
16:30:49 <argoneus> but I used to have 60+ on stock boeing
16:31:01 <peter1138> I played with fshost with some guy, we were doing okay with single-prop planes.
16:31:25 <peter1138> Switched to turbo-prop and the framerate sucked for both of us.
16:31:32 <peter1138> (And he has an older i7)
16:31:46 <argoneus> I can understand that then
16:31:51 <argoneus> it's an expensive hobby
16:32:00 <argoneus> and then there's people
16:32:07 <argoneus> shelling thousands of dollars into a cockpit replica
16:32:20 <peter1138> Multiple screens and all that.
16:32:32 <peter1138> I have triple screen, but I daren't try it in FSX, because it sucks so bad.
16:32:36 <argoneus> even all the displays, yoke, fmc, radio
16:32:37 <planetmaker> better spend those thousands of €€ into a real piloting license ;)
16:32:39 <argoneus> everything hardware buttons
16:33:10 <peter1138> £50 for a box with a couple of switches on it
16:34:08 <peter1138> Actually since I switched to 3 monitors, nvidia surround works okay with FSX, but...
16:34:17 <peter1138> There's no separate rendering for the sides, so it's warped.
16:40:58 <peter1138> And then I get pissed off with all those humblebundle games that assume all input devices are gamepads.
16:41:26 <argoneus> which games do you mean?
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16:44:46 <peter1138> Tons, mostly platformers.
16:53:11 <frosch123> hmm, should nml check that 32bpp sprites have a transparent border on all edges?
16:53:27 <frosch123> somewhat as replacement for the pure white check?
16:53:43 <planetmaker> frosch123, do they need that?
16:53:54 <argoneus> peter1138: super meat boy is fine on both kb/gp
16:54:06 <argoneus> VVVVVV is fine, braid is fine
16:54:08 <argoneus> don't remember any others
16:54:11 <peter1138> Oh, right, as a basic "maybe you got the coordinates wrong" diagnostic.
16:54:20 <frosch123> no, i just mean it for checking that the author did not cut some pixels from the border by mistyping sprite coords
16:54:27 <peter1138> argoneus, i have a g27 wheel, it confuses these games.
16:54:30 <V453000> the only thing I might do frosch123 is to make nmlc announce which sprites are 100% alpha because there it is clear that your sprite is loaded wrongly
16:54:32 <frosch123> nml would then crop them
16:54:51 <argoneus> just disable wheel in control panel
16:55:00 <peter1138> they don't grok axes that aren't centred
16:57:15 <planetmaker> hm, so only warn for lines or columns which are 100% transparent, frosch123 ? That makes sense
16:57:48 <frosch123> it would only apply for pure 32bpp sprites
16:57:58 <frosch123> 8bpp and 32bpp+mask have the pure-white thingie
16:58:54 <frosch123> otoh, if we get some nml decompiler, it would always trigger the messages
16:59:01 <frosch123> since decoded sprites should be cropped :p
17:00:56 <frosch123> one could also invert it: check the pixels right next to the sprite are for non-transparency
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17:02:02 <planetmaker> I wonder whether I should ask yexo whether he still has the nml de-compiler somewhere
17:02:48 <frosch123> any set that is so old that it is written in nfo is worth rewriting anyway :p
17:03:36 <planetmaker> frosch123, didn't you just mention an nml de-compiler? ;)
17:03:38 <frosch123> and considering that most nfo sets use a c-preprocessor you are likely better off porting the sprite templates manually
17:04:12 <planetmaker> the use might be limited, however not completely useless
17:04:28 <frosch123> planetmaker: oh, don't worry, i am on coffee
17:04:33 <planetmaker> easier to port from nml to nml than from de-compiled nfo to nml
17:04:42 <frosch123> how about nml generating a map file
17:04:50 <planetmaker> what kind of map file?
17:05:15 <frosch123> which maps bytes in grf files to nml lines, so you if you single-step callbacks in ottd, you can directly link it to the source
17:05:35 <frosch123> you know, integrated grf debugging into your nml ide :p
17:05:47 <planetmaker> he, that certainly would be nice to have :)
17:07:27 <frosch123> oh, and while we are about silly ideas :p the other day i wondered about grf-optimisation within ottd: when loading a newgrf in ottd split the a123 chains per callback and short-circuit all switches which are constant for each callback
17:08:18 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean like a link-time-optimization?
17:08:48 <frosch123> yeah, but i wonder whether you would safe more than one switch per callback
17:09:07 <frosch123> or whether it would implicitly add callback flags to all callbacks
17:09:13 <Alberth> if all is well, you'd not have constant switches, would you?
17:09:26 <Eddi|zuHause> the one that decides whether to descend into a callback?
17:09:32 <frosch123> or whether there would even be callbacks, which are time-consuming, which have no callback flag
17:09:51 <planetmaker> Alberth, I'm sure nearly every newgrf of some size has switches which return constant values
17:09:59 <frosch123> or whether you should just add a better way to make callback fail, instead of chaining into a silly sprite chain
17:10:09 <planetmaker> easier to make that than writing each vehicle/house/industry separately
17:10:09 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: like folding out paths that result in failed callback?
17:10:12 <Alberth> planetmaker: yeah, but the same for every exit?
17:10:35 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: yes, but ofc. it is tricky for temporary and persistent storage :p
17:10:43 <planetmaker> Alberth, maybe sometimes
17:10:45 <frosch123> random bits and that kind of junk :p
17:11:05 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: well, you can't optimize away those accesses, then
17:11:16 <frosch123> so, well, all stuff for a proper coffein coma
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17:18:21 <frosch123> sorry, just tried my new french press :)
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17:45:30 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27068 /trunk/src/lang (danish.txt tamil.txt) (2014-11-26 17:45:22 UTC)
17:45:31 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:32 <DorpsGek> danish - 28 changes by manframe
17:45:33 <DorpsGek> tamil - 52 changes by aswn
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17:47:39 <andythenorth> Iron Horse nearly has 666 downloads
17:47:47 * andythenorth hits refresh constantly
17:54:10 <andythenorth> bored of hitting refresh no
17:59:53 <Alberth> you will know when doom arrives :)
18:00:15 <peter1138> hmm, freedos... doom...
18:00:26 <peter1138> Ah, probably wouldn't get any sound :(
18:04:24 <andythenorth> pleased with that
18:04:37 <andythenorth> peter1138: PRBoom
18:05:12 <andythenorth> oh maybe that’s OS X only
18:06:19 <peter1138> For the vanillaness.
18:07:42 <andythenorth> I only play the first episode
18:08:13 <peter1138> I've got the full original wads somewhere.
18:09:39 <andythenorth> I could never be arsed to get into the later levels
18:20:46 <peter1138> Heh, 30% off X-Plane 10 on Steam.
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18:26:26 <peter1138> I think I'll skip it :p
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18:28:06 <Jinassi> i suggest kerbal space program, very relaxing
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23:55:33 <Eddi|zuHause> for strange values of "support"
continue to next day ⏵
