IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-11-25
            
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05:57:46 <supermop> yo
05:58:43 <Taede> moin
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06:32:22 <supermop> whats going on
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06:34:54 <Supercheese> Thanksgiving vacation in the US
06:36:35 <supermop> i get to skip that here
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10:13:39 <__ln__> http://bad.solutions/
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10:23:25 <argoneus> ayy
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10:24:57 <__ln__> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/iron-sky-the-coming-race--2
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12:01:27 <supermop> cant decide what country my etsy store should be in
12:01:37 <supermop> or if there is a better alternative
12:02:40 <V453000> wat
12:06:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i agree with V453000 (and when does that ever happen)
12:06:15 <V453000> YES
12:06:17 <V453000> I win
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12:07:24 <V453000> thesouthone
12:09:23 <andythenorth> moin
12:09:25 <andythenorth> also pikka
12:09:48 <andythenorth> hrm
12:09:59 <andythenorth> I keep forgetting to add these to Road Hog
12:09:59 <andythenorth> http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-GU25dgOY-rE/UJNID5xQ5ZI/AAAAAAACBYw/WdF071WZuHI/s900/a17.jpg
12:10:01 <andythenorth> oops
12:12:29 <Pikka> why
12:12:39 <Pikka> what about iron hog
12:15:05 <andythenorth> what is it?
12:15:09 <andythenorth> sounds good
12:15:58 <Pikka> maybe
12:16:17 <Pikka> if it's 32bpp4ez
12:16:20 <andythenorth> :(
12:16:27 <andythenorth> you and your big pixels
12:16:36 <andythenorth> also
12:17:04 <Pikka> also which?
12:17:46 <andythenorth> this will be a right bastard to draw in pixels
12:17:46 <V453000> big pixels are the future
12:17:46 <andythenorth> http://www.hankstruckpictures.com/pix/trucks/len_rogers/2007/02/erf-blue.jpg
12:17:59 <Pikka> tres erf
12:18:05 <Pikka> erf sounds like a made-up name
12:18:26 <andythenorth> it was
12:19:16 <andythenorth> renderised powder tanker?
12:19:25 <Eddi|zuHause> erf is the integral of the bell curve
12:19:58 <Pikka> such lifted axles, also
12:20:10 <andythenorth> hmm
12:20:10 <Pikka> renderised means "correct" dimensions though
12:20:16 <andythenorth> could code those lifted axles
12:20:25 <andythenorth> at 1x EZ, definitely worth it
12:20:30 <Pikka> si
12:20:39 <Pikka> just make a new 3dtt
12:20:48 <Pikka> call it something clever like drain fewer
12:20:52 <andythenorth> we should
12:20:56 <andythenorth> but I won’t
12:23:09 <Pikka> why not
12:23:14 <Pikka> not enough pixels in the day?
12:23:59 <Pikka> In my opinion, it is not a good feature to have too much refit options, because use of autorefit become unpredictable.
12:24:33 <andythenorth> oh
12:24:36 <andythenorth> feedback
12:24:37 <andythenorth> I see
12:25:04 <andythenorth> well
12:25:05 <andythenorth> yes
12:25:23 <andythenorth> I shall definitely go ahead and break the set
12:26:15 <andythenorth> why doesn’t it expire?
12:26:23 <andythenorth> I never bother with expire, so I didn’t test it
12:26:28 <andythenorth> probably I set ‘never expires'
12:26:35 <Pikka> seems likely
12:26:37 <andythenorth> oh because otherwise it’s broken
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14:23:14 <peter1138> http://bad.solutions/
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14:23:46 <argoneus> ayy
14:23:56 <argoneus> peter1138: where did you find this
14:24:01 <argoneus> someone linked it to me like 2 hours ago
14:24:05 <argoneus> are you guys friends or what
14:32:07 <peter1138> Oh sorry.
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14:33:57 <V453000> REPOST
14:33:59 <V453000> BURN HIM ALIVE
14:34:18 <V453000> THE INTERNET REVEALED THIS KNOWLEDGE TO ME ALREADY
14:35:09 <peter1138> Yeah, __ln__ already linked it. I'm gonna perish.
14:35:18 <V453000> absolutely
14:36:01 <argoneus> nono
14:36:03 <argoneus> I meant
14:36:08 <argoneus> someone in an unrelated channel
14:36:11 <argoneus> on an unrelated server
14:36:15 <argoneus> in an unrelated discussion
14:36:40 <argoneus> mildly interesting
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14:40:54 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what virality is about
14:41:04 <Eddi|zuHause> besides, it was already posted here earlier
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16:21:34 <DDR> Good morning, #openttd. :)
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16:27:44 <Alberth> moin
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16:36:00 <planetmaker> moin
16:37:33 <Alberth> o/
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16:50:05 <Nijske> hellow
16:50:10 <Nijske> dutch people here ?
16:50:20 <Jinassi> nnet
16:51:02 <Jinassi> anyone seen kamnet lately?
16:51:08 <Nijske> i need som help but my english is not so good
16:51:36 <Alberth> Jinassi: I have never seen him here, as far as I can remember
16:51:53 <Nijske> i am new on open ttd
16:52:03 <Jinassi> Alberth, thank you, he's harder to find than a midget hooker
16:52:08 <Alberth> Nijske: just try, we'll ask for clarification if things are not clear
16:52:17 <Nijske> ok thanks
16:52:21 <Alberth> Jinassi: PM on tt-forums?
16:52:37 <Nijske> i wont new industrie on my map
16:52:50 <Nijske> wat can i download best ?
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16:53:01 <Nijske> in newGRF
16:53:13 <Alberth> there are 3 choices
16:54:02 <Alberth> 1. ECS, quite old, has stock piling, factories have an upper limit on what they accept
16:54:29 <Alberth> 2. FIRS, has supplies to increase production
16:54:57 <Alberth> 3. YETI, has workers, haven't played with it recently
16:55:15 <Nijske> ow ok
16:55:35 <Nijske> 3 is the best then ?
16:55:55 <Alberth> different people have different ideas on "best"
16:56:05 <Nijske> ow ok
16:56:19 <Nijske> and for ech of tem have you trains ?
16:56:23 <Alberth> best solution is to try all of them for a few games, and see how you like them
16:56:59 <Jinassi> Probeer ze en zie welke je wilt. Elk heeft een aantal instellingen om mee te spelen ook.
16:56:59 <Alberth> YETI is closely connected to the NUTS trainset
16:57:03 <Nijske> YETI is 1 download i see
16:57:11 <Alberth> a BIG one :D
16:57:24 <planetmaker> there generally is no 'best'. They're just different and cater different ways to play the game
16:57:44 <Nijske> ow ok
16:57:51 <Alberth> but you need a train newgrf if you play with industry sets
16:57:57 <planetmaker> you'll need to use train (and vehicle) sets in order to transport their cargos
16:58:01 <Nijske> but 1 download is good for yeti ?
16:58:17 <Alberth> almost any modern vehicle set will do
16:58:33 <planetmaker> all three sets can be obtained via ingame content download. Those are good, yes.
16:58:39 <planetmaker> As can train and road vehicle sets
16:58:52 <Nijske> yetieextendet towns&industry
16:59:19 <planetmaker> yes, that one. Can't exactly recommend one or the other trainset either... use what you like :)
16:59:52 <Alberth> if you like the standard trains, you can use the opengfx+trains
17:00:06 <Alberth> other nice sets are iron horse, or NUTS
17:00:17 <Nijske> ow ok
17:00:20 <planetmaker> or pineapple trains
17:00:28 <Alberth> if you want ships, I can recommend squid
17:00:37 <planetmaker> and planes via av9.8
17:01:19 <planetmaker> and vehicles... egrvts, ogfx+rv. And always add heqs
17:01:20 <Nijske> thanks fot the good help
17:01:47 <Alberth> you're welcome, if you have problems or questions, just drop in :)
17:02:27 <planetmaker> also, our forums at http://forum.openttd.org has many suggestions on newgrfs. As many views on the topic as it has members ;)
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17:04:26 <Nijske> I understand english but not good typing
17:06:34 <Alberth> we understand what you're saying, that's what counts
17:07:02 <Nijske> you are currently playing the game?
17:09:02 <Alberth> no, I am cooking dinner
17:09:17 <Alberth> and I don't play the game very often
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17:27:05 <Nijske> hmm i upload anther
17:27:27 <Nijske> 1
17:27:53 <Nijske> but i forgot number 2
17:29:31 <Alberth> @logs
17:29:31 <DorpsGek> Alberth: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd
17:29:37 <Jinassi> 1st ecs, 2nd firs, 3rd yeti
17:29:45 <Nijske> tanks
17:29:53 <Alberth> Nijske: ^^ is the log of the channel, you can read everything back
17:30:06 <Nijske> ok
17:30:32 <Jinassi> nifty addition
17:30:38 <Alberth> when you play FIRS, be sure to select a basic economy, eg basic temperate
17:32:17 <Nijske> how do you mean?
17:33:02 <Alberth> after activating FIRS, go to its settings, and select a different economy, before starting a game
17:33:16 <Nijske> ow ok
17:33:34 <Alberth> the standard setting is for "full firs" and that is a LOT of industries, you'll get lost completely
17:34:09 <Alberth> the basic economy is much smaller and easier to understand
17:34:15 <Nijske> in the beginning it might be better just standard game play?
17:34:34 <Nijske> so as the initial companies
17:35:26 <Alberth> indeed, you get lost very quickly if you don't know any industry
17:35:34 <Alberth> keep it simple at first
17:36:10 <Nijske> got it a few years ago played
17:37:33 <Nijske> find the firs look best
17:37:51 <Nijske> Most companies also
17:38:53 <Alberth> if you don't change the economy, firs has a lot of industries indeed
17:39:16 <Alberth> don't forget to load a train newgrf as well, or you cannot transport the cargo
17:40:24 <Nijske> what should I load then?
17:41:03 <Alberth> any train set will do, planet maker mentioned several of them
17:42:03 <Alberth> http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/link/1416934806#1416934806
17:43:21 <Alberth> iron horse train set and termite track grf will probably work well, they are from the same author as firs
17:43:34 <Alberth> I haven't tried them yet
17:44:18 <Nijske> ow ok
17:44:58 <Nijske> i have load iron horde
17:45:17 <Nijske> is that enough?
17:45:25 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27067 trunk/src/lang/korean.txt (2014-11-25 17:45:18 UTC)
17:45:26 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:27 <DorpsGek> korean - 1 changes by telk5093
17:45:50 <Nijske> @dorpsgek dutch ? :D
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17:46:30 <Alberth> termite tracks belong with iron horse, you should load them too
17:46:41 <Alberth> and yes, dorpsgek is a dutch fool :p
17:46:54 <Nijske> happened
17:46:59 <Nijske> nice :D
17:47:04 <Alberth> or 'idiot', probably
17:47:38 <Nijske> Have point 2 downloaded and then those two for trains
17:47:39 <Xaroth|Work> village idiot
17:48:00 <Nijske> then I start I suppose
17:48:12 * Nijske slaps DorpsGek around a bit with a large fishbot
17:48:22 <Nijske> oops
17:49:04 <Nijske> I must get away speak to you soon
17:49:17 <Alberth> bye, and have fun playing :)
17:49:21 <Nijske> thank you for the help
17:50:28 <Xaroth|Work> Alberth: you still working on rct?
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17:55:18 <Alberth> Xaroth|Work: yep, and others
17:55:32 <Alberth> working on queuing of guests
17:55:49 <Xaroth|Work> nice
17:56:03 <Alberth> last weekend, I got toilets to keep guests inside for a while
17:56:14 <Alberth> and reject them when it's full
17:56:53 <Alberth> so now I should teach queuing paths to queue :p
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18:04:04 <Xaroth|Work> ghehe
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18:39:58 <Nijske> alberth ?
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18:40:17 <Alberth> what do you want to know?
18:40:48 <Nijske> I uploading number 2
18:41:04 <Alberth> but in general, it's much more effective to just burst in with your question, and ask it in general, more people know more than one :)
18:41:34 <Nijske> There you can also use the industry standard in?
18:42:21 <Alberth> what is "the industry standard" ?
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18:42:51 <Nijske> the industry that you have when you have nothing uploads
18:43:54 <Alberth> oh, you want to have both the default industries and firs at the same time?
18:44:01 <Alberth> no that's not possible
18:44:35 <Alberth> so far, all industry newgrfs replace the default industries instead of adding to it
18:44:57 <Nijske> I always start in the desert but if your number 2 download you can do anything you like water can retrieve only
18:45:45 <Nijske> for any business you have nothing needed and there is too little money to earn something from the start: p
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18:46:15 <Alberth> a lot of people only play temperate climate, and not anything else
18:46:42 <Nijske> ow ok
18:46:44 <Alberth> firs has an economy for tropical if I remember correctly
18:47:22 <Nijske> ok thank you and sorry for disturbing
18:47:41 <Nijske> I try that way
18:48:04 <Alberth> if you try "Heart of Darkness" (the bottom entry)
18:48:14 <Alberth> that should work in tropical climate
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18:48:43 <Alberth> but I don't know if it handles water, I never play for pax
18:48:49 <Alberth> ha, the expert!
18:48:50 <Nijske> I do not understand
18:48:53 <Alberth> hi andy
18:48:55 <andythenorth> lo
18:49:09 <Alberth> Nijske has a problem with firs, can you help?
18:49:32 <Nijske> tropical is not the desert? you can choose from four climates
18:49:52 <Alberth> tropical is the 3rd one
18:50:23 <Nijske> yes
18:51:00 <Alberth> andythenorth: apparently firs doesn't have water supplies for tropical?
18:51:08 <Nijske> but if for example you can start immediately make a train ride with water
18:51:25 <andythenorth> FIRS doesn’t have water
18:51:32 <andythenorth> it substitutes something else
18:51:36 <andythenorth> dunno what
18:51:39 <andythenorth> town window will tell
18:51:53 <Nijske> but with that 2nd uploads have only factories where you need to make something for you can pick out something
18:52:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it was goods
18:53:08 <Nijske> goods ?
18:53:26 <Alberth> food and goods indeed
18:56:02 <Nijske> I'm testing it out
18:57:28 <Alberth> if you click on the name of a town you get a window describing what it needs
19:01:40 <Nijske> yes that I know but it's just something where factories produced when you make something so hard: D
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19:03:29 <Nijske> have found it XD thanks for your help
19:04:22 <Alberth> as I said, you are completely lost with the industries first :)
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19:07:40 <Nijske> maybe it is difficult to start with so immediately
19:08:11 <Nijske> have the uploads are equally removed
19:08:54 <Alberth> it's normal to get lost, just like you are playing for the first time again
19:09:21 <Alberth> just take it easy, one step at a time
19:09:50 <Nijske> is certainly well I play normal playstation: p
19:11:03 <Alberth> OpenTTD is a game that takes time to learn, especially if you add newgrf
19:12:47 <Nijske> Certainly, that is why I will start as the beginning
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19:38:43 <Wolf01> hai
19:38:55 <Alberth> hi
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20:12:54 <dreck> trying to find something from forum atm but thought I'll try ask here too..any of you know what openttd seem to be looking for when wanting a heightmap file?
20:13:37 <frosch123> a greyscale png file
20:14:53 <frosch123> though i think every png image works, and ottd converts it to greyscale
20:16:04 <dreck> hmm not sure if its just some odd setting but what happens is I go to Save Heightmap .. then immedately go to Load Heightmap and its not even there even although its in the same working directory
20:16:16 <dreck> wondering if its botching up something while saving it in first place
20:20:12 <dreck> (like is there any particular gui or cli setting I could check?)
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20:43:26 <andythenorth> hrm
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20:43:31 * andythenorth yak-shaving again
20:51:17 <dreck> AHA frosch I found what the problem had been the whole time and I think its a silly one in a weird way...
20:52:07 <dreck> somehow the heightmap appeared to use the Screenshot setting which is currently set to pcx .. and the dialog for heightmap save/load somehow can't deal with anothing that isn't png
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20:55:01 <frosch123> yeah, it's on the list of settings to remove from the gui, so it cannot be messed up
20:55:27 <andythenorth> something in my partial compile makes grfs that openttd can’t use
20:55:30 <andythenorth> how interesting
20:55:52 <andythenorth> or Eandythenorth
20:55:55 <andythenorth> which is more plausible?
20:56:52 <dreck> frosch whats weird is why Screenshot would have anything to do with Heightmap
20:57:06 <dreck> the two should be separated for sure
20:57:37 <andythenorth> because reasons :)
20:58:02 <dreck> I temporately set it to png to make the heightmap function for now..will have to switch back to pcx when I'm done with the map creation
20:58:19 <dreck> andythenorth if its supposed to be there then at least make the heightmap code accept non-png files :P
20:58:27 <dreck> or separate it from Screenshot ;)
20:58:38 <andythenorth> yes
20:58:40 <andythenorth> reasons
20:58:43 <Alberth> don't use pcx
21:00:20 <dreck> Alberth tell that to the heightmap code
21:00:57 <Alberth> no need to, it already doesn't use anything else but png
21:01:32 <dreck> so why did it try to save as pcx even although it couldn't understand that?
21:03:06 <frosch123> why did you switch to pcx in the first place?
21:05:17 <dreck> frosch where did openttd said it was using pcx for heightmap?
21:05:21 <dreck> that'll answer your question
21:05:35 <frosch123> no, why did you set pcx for screenshots?
21:05:56 <Eddi|zuHause> why did we not remove pcx yet?
21:05:57 <dreck> and again..what does screenshot have to do with heightmap?
21:06:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't seen a pcx in at least a decade
21:06:24 <frosch123> that's not the point. ottd only supports pcx because noone removed it
21:06:28 <frosch123> why are you using it?
21:06:33 <dreck> eddi well its still in use by many editors
21:06:48 <frosch123> are you on dos or something?
21:07:30 <dreck> nope
21:07:46 <frosch123> i have a drawing program in dosbox
21:07:54 <frosch123> something from 92, pcx was awesome
21:09:37 <frosch123> dreck: still, the plan is to remove the pcx setting from the gui. so i wonder why anyone would activate it
21:09:58 <dreck> because its much easier for me to use than going through some third party app to convert it over
21:10:40 <frosch123> you are saying you use something that supports pcx, but not png? :o
21:11:01 <dreck> it'll take png but not in as good colors
21:11:26 <frosch123> err, they are both lossless
21:11:29 <frosch123> there is no difference
21:13:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i feel like i'm watching one of these comedies where two people are talking about two completely different things
21:13:44 <Eddi|zuHause> and don't realize it
21:14:19 <planetmaker> hi hi
21:14:33 <frosch123> hai pm :)
21:15:50 <frosch123> oi, i wanted to ask pm something about post_build, but apparently pm already changed it :p
21:15:53 <planetmaker> lol, this pcx conversation is highly funny
21:16:11 <planetmaker> frosch123, yeah, I saw that you mentioned it. Thought I have a brief look
21:16:33 <planetmaker> the alternative build VM basically is not properly setup for py3. Thus I disabled it for nml... not used anyhow
21:17:15 <planetmaker> it was more challenging to install pillow for py3 on debian than I recall. Thus I postponed that
21:17:32 <andythenorth> dreck: to shortcut
21:17:39 <andythenorth> it’s only in pcx because reasons
21:17:48 <andythenorth> it’s not particularly by design
21:18:42 <planetmaker> oh, and the other thing was that indeed the c module wasn't built for the version CF used. But that was just a minor addition, too
21:19:02 <frosch123> yup, saw it
21:19:25 <frosch123> i wanted to link you to hg and ask, but then wondered why the second ssh was commented out
21:19:37 <frosch123> first i questioned my sanity from the other day, but then i checked for new commits :p
21:19:40 <andythenorth> eh? my buy menu sprites are truncating
21:19:44 * andythenorth mumble mumble
21:19:47 <andythenorth> fixes
21:19:52 <dreck> heh
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21:36:05 <planetmaker> frosch123, can I document better how things work?
21:36:22 <planetmaker> I'm a bit uneasy if only I understand how things work :P
21:36:39 <planetmaker> and I didn't even manage to have ^Spike^ understand it either :P
21:36:58 <frosch123> i wanted to document how to install mingw inside wine, but didn't find a place where to add it :p
21:37:33 <planetmaker> :D
21:38:35 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/wiki/DevZone_Administration might be a place to link a new page to that topic
21:38:56 <planetmaker> or from the main help page http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/wiki
21:39:15 <planetmaker> alternatively always the openttd wiki could hold such knowledge, too
21:42:23 <frosch123> well, if there would have been a single ssh in post_build (like it is now), i would probably have figured it out
21:42:47 <frosch123> but that there were two surprised me, since i couldn't remember to see them in action
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21:53:38 <dreck> andythenorth there any chance you could answer a quick question re a somewhat "annoyed" FIRS industry? :)
21:54:45 <andythenorth> what’s it annoyed about?
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21:56:05 <dreck> ah, just curious if its something specific I haven't thought of but is there any particular landscaping shape the Bulk Terminal requires?
21:56:10 <andythenorth> yes
21:56:11 <andythenorth> it’s borked
21:56:18 <dreck> I've been able to place the Port and Harbour but ... ehhh not this particular one
21:56:24 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/7064
21:56:42 <dreck> ah I should had thought to check the dev list too..not just forum...doh...
21:56:43 * dreck looks
21:56:47 <andythenorth> hmm
21:56:55 <andythenorth> I thought I made a screenie recently
21:56:57 <andythenorth> maybe not
21:57:11 <andythenorth> anyway it only builds on SW-NE slopes afaict
21:57:26 <andythenorth> and you need a shape like —\_______/
21:57:41 <dreck> well there is "sorta" a screenshot in the docs/industry.html list but it doesn't really show the terrain underneath the building
21:58:00 <andythenorth> it’s a bug
21:58:02 <dreck> ah..so a bumpout shoreline? hmm let me try that and see if I figure it out
21:58:09 <andythenorth> it’s annoying
21:58:57 <dreck> oh oh I BUILT ONE! :->
21:59:31 <dreck> I just had it bumped out by one tile long and two tiles wide .. and was able to build it now :)
21:59:44 <dreck> cheers for the instruction above tho
22:01:31 <dreck> at least its a lot easier than some of these strange Tourist buildings (I think it was a ecs thing? been awhile that I can't recall) which required a specific shape of hill to build onto
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22:03:22 <dreck> while you're here I just want to tell you one thing: I -love- HEQS
22:03:22 <dreck> ;)
22:03:51 <dreck> I'll admit I've rarely used the "offroad" vehicles but even then I like the trucks and trams :)
22:05:27 <andythenorth> dreck: you could screenshot your successful build and post it to FIRS thread :P
22:05:30 <andythenorth> it keeps coming up
22:06:15 <dreck> heh well...I could maybe make a screenshot of my map when I'm done creating it :)
22:07:50 <dreck> the strange thing about FIRS is that the fishing ground reminds me of MB's original (or thats what I suspect) release of that a long time ago
22:08:25 <andythenorth> there are reasons
22:08:29 <andythenorth> for that too
22:08:43 <andythenorth> only so many ways to skin that cat
22:08:43 <dreck> he had beer too didn't he? :P
22:08:46 * dreck gets drunk
22:08:54 <dreck> heh
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22:09:25 <dreck> mind you I still use newstationsw once in a while even although I usually have the japan station loaded
22:21:57 * andythenorth -> bed
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22:22:14 <Wolf01> me too
22:22:17 <Wolf01> 'night
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22:29:26 <planetmaker> dreck, for a NewGRF author not an entire map screenshot is interesting, but nice screenshots which show their stuff in action
22:29:50 <planetmaker> which definitely needs no waiting "till finished"
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22:33:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i was never "finished" with a map...
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