IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-11-24
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04:05:16 <supermop> how hard would it me to make trees aware of the slope they are on?
04:06:32 <Supercheese> trees-as-newobjects? easy. Tree trees? No idea
04:06:39 <Supercheese> True trees/whatever
04:09:39 <supermop> basically just to shade trees by x% if the average slope of tile is away from 'sun'
04:09:57 <supermop> so you can see relief of map with trees on
04:13:10 <supermop> as is, trees are essentially noise, so even on a very mountainous map, the camouflage all of the contour of the terrain
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08:23:50 <Xaroth|Work> anybody can edit the wiki
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08:24:59 <Xaroth|Work> having something that's 'workable' would probably be the requirement for other people to not remove it at some later point I'd say
08:25:59 <horazont> oh okay, so I just need an account
08:26:22 <horazont> well, it does work, I’m basing an XMPP client on it. the frame project is to create an XMPP <-> OpenTTD admin gateway bot
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11:58:36 <V453000> hmm, creating 1+2+2+2+1 articulated wagon has quite a downside in that you have to always drag the vehicle for the first 1/8 part when moving it inside depot :/
12:01:31 <planetmaker> I already asked, but I didn't quite understand the reasoning or forgot parts of it: why do the wagons of 4/8 and 8/8 need to be articulated at all?
12:02:03 <planetmaker> what about a short and a long version, just as two different vehicles?
12:02:18 <planetmaker> then it's easy to autoreplace between those
12:05:15 <V453000> cause e.g. chameleon only allows short wagons and e.g. normal monorail only long ones
12:05:31 <V453000> easy yes, intuitive no
12:06:06 <V453000> but it is one of the options I considered yeah
12:07:11 <V453000> it would make sense for openttd to drag the whole consist while pulling just one of the vehicles though :P
12:07:23 <V453000> like doubleheads and articulations :P
12:07:24 <planetmaker> just allow both length on all engines
12:07:58 <planetmaker> a slug with long wagons then just is an old slug which cannot bend as nicely anymore :P
12:07:59 <V453000> that would probably cause quite a mess
12:08:05 <planetmaker> mess? in what way?
12:08:19 <V453000> well e.g. slug doesnt have any long wagon sprites
12:08:44 <planetmaker> ah, they have specific sprites for the wagons? hm
12:10:45 <V453000> somewhat of an option would be to have 4+4 and let the 8/8 engines just bend a bit sooner/later
12:11:00 <V453000> I will have to see how poor that looks :D
12:11:38 <V453000> actually that sounds like the only option if I want to have the articulated depot-dragging not completely borken
12:12:06 <V453000> hm guess tunnels and hills will suck the most
12:12:19 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: you can have a long sprite in the depot, then the long sprite will be dragged around
12:13:45 <V453000> still got to click the first unit of the consist though
12:13:54 <V453000> which in case of 1/8 is probably a bit ass
12:14:29 <V453000> can something be done about that on openttd side? I always found it annoying to just accidentally click the wrong unit of the consist tbh
12:14:56 <V453000> if it is an articulated vehicle, why not allow it to move when dragged by any part?
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13:27:51 <George> How to set value to PR_RUNNING_TRAIN_ELECTRIC to 5600 (default 4800)?
13:31:03 <planetmaker> generally, NewGRF can only work with powers of two on base costs
13:31:19 <planetmaker> so you can keep it, double it, half it, quadruple it, etc
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14:18:14 <Eddi|zuHause> a lot of problems with costs would be solved if it were extended from byte to word or dword
14:21:31 <peter1138> So many problems, so many fixes, so little contributions.
14:27:12 <V453000> xcept making fuckload of newgrfs :P
14:27:23 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem is that extending specs is not something a lonely and bored contributor can do
14:28:30 <peter1138> Only problem I see is that NewGRF authors get confused by code because they're graphics people really.
14:28:50 <Eddi|zuHause> you either get lost in updating the dozen tools, or with commitee discussions on how it could be made better
14:29:31 <V453000> kind of a big problem peter1138 :P
14:30:01 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, that would be simple. Just adding a new dword cost property for each feature
14:30:09 <planetmaker> and using that, if defined, otherwise the old
14:30:40 <planetmaker> or whatever it was
14:30:44 <planetmaker> or like introduction date
14:32:00 <peter1138> Feature request: Port to SDL2.
14:34:13 <Eddi|zuHause> why did nobody think of that before?
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14:58:13 <George> What is the right way to check in cost/runing_cost CB if the vehicle is build or not (purchase window)?
14:58:53 <George> Providing purchase_cost_factor for every veh does not seem to be nice solution
15:03:42 <planetmaker> peter1138, port to SDL2 would make the android port significantly smaller :)
15:03:54 <planetmaker> but I recall LordAro :P
15:05:53 <planetmaker> George, there's a vehicle property for that. and there's the purchase_running_cost_factor callback
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15:54:44 <planetmaker> interesting nickname, one has to say
15:55:23 <planetmaker> it translates to 'scum' :P
15:55:39 <planetmaker> (or 'dirt' - depends on context)
15:56:01 <Xaroth|Work> or 'your parents really didn't want you' :P
15:56:27 <dreck> well different languages have different meanings so I can't say more :)
15:56:59 <dreck> especially a car named Nova which in one particular country was believed to mean "bad luck" which not surprisingly matched its poor sales there
15:58:36 <planetmaker> or pajero and vento
15:59:18 <Xaroth|Work> or 'kok' .. a semi-common dutch surname which sounds an awful lot like 'cock'.
15:59:20 <dreck> jinassi what did 'pinto' mean?
15:59:36 <Xaroth|Work> especially when your first name is then 'dick' ...
15:59:42 <Jinassi> similar car to Chevy Nova, only made by Ford
15:59:52 <dreck> no I mean..what did that word mean
16:03:10 <dreck> anyway I'm just wondering..the action7 effects everything so if it was scripted for 1960 road sprite update then it wouldn't matter if the road had already been laid down in <1959 it would gain the new sprites immedately?
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16:10:11 <planetmaker> dreck, there's only one road sprite possible. Action7/9 are static and only evaluated at grf load time.
16:11:11 <planetmaker> and if you query the current time in an action7/9, it will always evaluate to the same, for multiplayer purposes, ignoring the other choices
16:12:56 <dreck> hm guess maybe I'll see if I couldn't ask pikka or someone then
16:13:36 <planetmaker> sorry, dreck, NewGRFs can't work around that (yet). It would need real road types similar to railway tracktypes. At least to some degree
16:15:28 <dreck> planetmaker so how is it that a few townsets have different roads in different generations? like I said I might just have to ask the grf owners :-s
16:15:51 <peter1138> You have to reload the game to make the change work.
16:15:57 <peter1138> This doesn't work in multiplayer.
16:16:10 <peter1138> They're not hiding a secret from you.
16:16:11 <V453000> it does if you reload the savegame on server :P
16:17:22 <peter1138> V453000, no, it uses the game starting year.
16:18:13 <V453000> ttrs and north american roads always did work with reloading ... perhaps I re-saved it through singleplayer though
16:18:20 <V453000> which still shouldnt change starting year I think
16:18:30 <peter1138> Probably it used to "work."
16:19:58 <V453000> well north american roads are probably gone for good and ttrs isnt really too great for pre-1930 starts anyway
16:21:07 <peter1138> That's why we're waiting on your unrealistic 32bpp 4x town and road set...
16:21:31 <Marshy> What's a good pre-1930s townset anyway?
16:23:21 <peter1138> TaI is the only good one.
16:26:20 <Jinassi> uk set is good too, but after a while it starts spewing churches out, like it's spanish inquzition and they take 4 tiles and all your relations to bomb 1
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16:30:42 <dreck> heh..too many churches = where are the bedrooms anymore? :)
16:31:13 <George> planetmaker: how a property can check something??
16:33:15 <George> I know about purchse_cost_factor and purchase_running_cost factor. My question was how to check if the vehicle already built in the cost_factor and running_cost_factor CBs
16:33:25 <Marshy> I didn't do well with TaL, I just got a map full of colourful tiles, unsure if I was using the correct version or not
16:34:08 <dreck> george are you the same george who does LV rvsets?
16:34:33 <George> dreck: Yes, ECS, xUSSR train set
16:35:37 <dreck> ah..used to like LV3 before but now don't have it so much anymore due to sprite limit and other newer grfs altogether tho
16:35:59 <dreck> as for ecs...well..I'll refrain from commenting
16:45:36 <Eddi|zuHause> George: i don't know if you can check for purchase menu outside of the action3, but you can STORE_TEMP some stuff in the entry point for the callback, and then load that later in the chain
16:47:33 <George> TRAINS do not have REGISTERs AFAIR
16:48:43 <planetmaker> so yes, eddi's idea might work
16:49:49 <planetmaker> dreck, "sprite limit"? You mean you have so many newgrfs that you run out of place for sprites? That'd be curious
16:50:45 <Eddi|zuHause> George: temporary storage is valid for the duration of the callback
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17:04:48 <dreck> lunchtime now so me going
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17:09:06 <peter1138> It's possible he's still playing TTDPatch?
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17:18:58 <planetmaker> peter1138, no. He played on an openttd server
17:49:24 <argoneus> I lost it at the spade
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19:32:04 <andythenorth> obsessing over small details :P
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19:57:43 <andythenorth> weather disasters in game? o_O
19:59:14 <SpComb> that looks like a windy plain
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21:46:15 <Eddi|zuHause> after all these years i still have no clue what the weather in SC2000 actually did
21:50:47 <frosch123> most likely nothing
21:51:01 <frosch123> stuff that changes often averages out to nothing
21:51:18 <frosch123> that's why smooth economy in ottd is so silly
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21:51:39 <frosch123> it changes the production of every industry every month
21:52:05 <frosch123> if it would instead give the production a linear slope it would be easier to play with
21:52:13 <frosch123> and on averag eit would be the same anyway
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22:22:03 <andythenorth_> frosch123: one day a better industry economy will get figured out :p
22:22:30 <andythenorth_> No newgrf has managed it
22:22:53 <andythenorth_> PBI not, ECS not, FIRS not
22:23:33 <andythenorth_> FIRS approach to primaries is too brutal, no finesse
22:40:58 <frosch123> clearly firs needs plugin support
22:41:17 <frosch123> just load a new economy via xml into the grf
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22:47:32 <supermop> lots of new sprites while i was asleep it seems
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