IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-09-29
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01:22:32 <SHOTbyGUN> seems like the recommendation is many small trains, but I like loong trains more... but that causes all cargo to dissappear :( any tips?
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01:39:08 <Eddi|zuHause> have a truck go in circles to keep the station rating up
01:40:13 <Eddi|zuHause> or use FIRS with the switch to keep station rating independent from service frequency
02:07:47 <SHOTbyGUN> <Eddi|zuHause> thanks! I have FIRS in use, but I didint realize to check parameters. I suppose I need new game to enable it :o
02:32:35 <SHOTbyGUN> I find it hard to describe how good game this is
02:35:44 <SHOTbyGUN> its like railway simulator and Simcity are like rotten fruits... and OpenTTD is like holy pie
02:50:41 <SHOTbyGUN> but the game default settings are horrible... it have taken 2 days ... just editing advanced settins and finding fixes to issues like above... eg. why train acceleration is not realistic by default..etc...
02:53:18 <SHOTbyGUN> and bigges issue is font size / icon size... took some time to google fixes to that... (edit config file manually + install bigIcons modfix) ... but after that is been said, its best tycoon/simulation game ever existed
04:17:31 <SHOTbyGUN> <Eddi|zuHause> thanks again, now it works as it should :)
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08:10:53 <peter1138> "If I cannot have a single complete range or two of GRFIDs for my own personal and exclusive use without interference, then there is no purpose for me to continue GRF development for OpenTTD."
08:11:10 <andythenorth> fortunately a locked thread
08:11:18 <andythenorth> I am trying hard to say nothing else
08:11:45 <V453000> was there some recent drama I missed?
08:12:06 <andythenorth> I intended to change Iron Horse grfid, and I forgot before 1.0.0 release
08:12:56 <andythenorth> now christmas is cancelled :(
08:14:44 <V453000> I miss him very much already
08:14:51 <peter1138> all GRF development for OpenTTD has been terminated
08:14:57 <peter1138> ^^ andythenorth, you better stop
08:16:02 <V453000> do I have to as well?
08:16:30 <andythenorth> you can fuck off
08:16:53 <V453000> btw who closed the thread I want discussion to happen
08:17:40 <V453000> I didnt say I want useful discussion? :P
08:18:05 <andythenorth> oztrans is a complete twat
08:18:13 <andythenorth> I have defended him every time people here want to lay into him
08:18:27 <andythenorth> because Canadian grfs are good, and we should be able to have more than one approach to newgrfs
08:18:40 <andythenorth> I genuinely forgot to change the grfid on Iron Horse
08:18:57 <andythenorth> and now I get this shit storm laid on my name, with character assassination to boot
08:19:11 <andythenorth> he is a complete fucking tool
08:20:07 <andythenorth> but I am trying not to comment :P
08:24:05 <andythenorth> my children have smaller tantrums
08:24:13 <andythenorth> even I have smaller tantrums
08:24:30 <andythenorth> although I did go on a repo-deleting spree after falling out with planetmaker (not planetmaker’s fault)
08:25:37 <V453000> I like the no longer available
08:25:48 <V453000> lets see how long will it take till we hear from him again
08:26:59 <andythenorth> trucks after 1990
08:27:07 <andythenorth> just more power, or some fake futurisms?
08:28:03 <Pikka> I don't know, I think I'm making my last generation of trucks vaguely futurisms, but they're not until the 20s or 30s I think
08:28:11 <Pikka> and the futurisms is merely in appearance
08:29:56 <andythenorth> how do we animate?
08:30:04 <andythenorth> I have to put the horsies into Iron Horse
08:30:15 <andythenorth> does nml support gif? o_O
08:33:36 <Pikka> what's the point of a mecha on rollerskates? ground clearance?
08:35:37 <Pikka> wing-in-road flying trucks
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08:48:49 <V453000> nml supports gif animation? :D
08:49:07 <V453000> I thought you simply feed nml the separate frames
08:49:10 <V453000> that is what yeti does at least
08:49:50 * peter1138 hands V453000 a 32 bpp animated gif.
08:49:55 <Pikka> gif animation doesn't support 32bpp, yes :)
08:50:14 <V453000> colour settings can be whatever
08:50:24 <V453000> yeti also has 8bpp animation ... not visually, but coded
08:51:59 <peter1138> Doesn't matter, it was a joke :D
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08:58:14 <Pikka> clearly java is fun and hip
09:05:43 <planetmaker> I see it's nearly popcorn time again
09:16:20 <planetmaker> I was referring to the discussion here 45minutes ago :)
09:28:37 <Pikka> good job that thread got locked, though :) so discussion is limited to the secret anti-OzTrans cabals on IRC and in the moderator forum...
11:01:30 <peter1138> Heeeeeeeeeee's mister know-it-all
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11:19:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no clue what that means
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13:35:24 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: so would VF_CARGO_UNLOADING enable dump trucks? o_O
13:39:00 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i'm sure i discussed that at some point, but i don't remember any of that
13:39:19 <andythenorth> was hungarian truck set
13:40:56 <Eddi|zuHause> there was probably something in there about the flag not being exposed to newgrf
13:41:50 <Eddi|zuHause> but in theory it needs the same flag that is used to put the ^ and v arrows next to the vehicles
13:54:42 <peter1138> why does the one-way roads button not bip?
14:56:11 <Pikka> where's DanMacK when you need him?
15:15:37 <planetmaker> aren't yetis known to roam also there? Or is it only in the Himalaya?
15:16:20 <andythenorth> yetis are scientifically limited to Himalaya
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15:22:07 <Pikka> I need three more electric locomotives for NARS, because of a slightly obsessive need for round numbers
15:22:45 <andythenorth> hang on I’ll send you some
15:22:50 <andythenorth> what are you doing, also?
15:23:13 <andythenorth> which ones do you have?
15:23:20 <andythenorth> the correct number is 8 or 10 btw
15:23:21 <Pikka> making an update for NARS with the BAD FEATURES removed
15:23:32 <Pikka> let's call it the OzTrans memorial edition
15:23:38 <Pikka> yes, the correct number is 10
15:23:44 <Pikka> I have 20 steam locos and 30 diesels, you see
15:24:15 <Pikka> I have nothing betwen the GG1 in 1934 and the E60C in 1972
15:24:31 <Pikka> I think that's where I can slot in three more... little joe is one. so two more.
15:24:32 <andythenorth> what do you have overall?
15:24:50 <andythenorth> before I go replicating :P
15:24:59 <Pikka> 3 early steeplecabs and boxcabs, GG1, E60C AEM-7 and GF6C
15:25:00 <andythenorth> I have replicated quite enough thanks
15:25:46 <andythenorth> last ones just got scrapped I think
15:26:21 <Pikka> not really suitable for porpoises :)
15:26:29 * andythenorth has been ignoring that sort of realisms
15:26:40 <Pikka> yes, but this is NARS, the home of realisms
15:27:17 <peter1138> I'm gonna play UKRS2 with liveries, YEAH
15:27:29 <Pikka> yeah, I think we talked about those ones
15:27:40 <Pikka> I wonder if there's another canadistani one...
15:27:57 <andythenorth> looks a bit like an E33
15:28:06 <Pikka> GE W1 is already statted in the old list \o/
15:28:13 <andythenorth> oh they became E33 :P
15:30:05 <andythenorth> have you got a meatball?
15:30:08 <Pikka> it will be the last loco introduced, I'm taking out all the futurisms :)
15:30:08 <Alberth> nice black blocky engine :)
15:31:01 <andythenorth> what are those ones on the deseret railroad?
15:32:09 <andythenorth> electric switcher
15:32:40 <Pikka> I needed 3 more electrics, and I've got 7. thanks :/
15:32:49 <andythenorth> all realisms covered
15:33:20 <andythenorth> E33, SW1200MG, Cities Sprinter
15:33:31 <andythenorth> you can ‘upgrade’ the E33 to E44 after 10 years :P
15:34:10 <andythenorth> are you keeping that BAD FEATURE?
15:34:17 <andythenorth> set kind of relies on it:P
15:34:55 <Pikka> no HEP / dynamo nonsense
15:35:03 <Pikka> no other consist limitations
15:35:10 <Pikka> no.. running sounds, ho ho.
15:35:29 <Pikka> no different locos in different climates
15:35:50 <Pikka> and I'm sure there are more bad features in NARS I can't remember
15:36:15 <Pikka> oh, no supercomplex running cost rules
15:39:33 * Alberth wonders whether 2cc trains 'regiions' could be interpret as openttd climates
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15:42:54 * DanMacK sees OzTrans is being a douche again...
15:43:45 <Pikka> would you object terribly if I just.. made up the stats for NARS locos? :D
15:45:39 <peter1138> NARS GamePlay Special Edition
15:46:04 <Pikka> implying that the existing edition doesn't have made-up stats in it ;)
15:46:32 * Pikka is going to make a final, no-bad-features recode of NARS
15:47:01 <Pikka> if there's anything you want to redraw, this is your chance :) also, adding a couple of extra locos to make round numbers :)
15:47:46 <Pikka> I'll finish the list and then either PM it or blog it...
15:50:06 <DanMacK> I was thinking of those for the canset actually
15:56:39 <Pikka> alright, I have a list.
15:57:11 <DanMacK> pm... gotta go back to work
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16:23:46 <Pikka> the W1 was in the old NARS all along
16:24:00 <peter1138> Whatever happened to the patch that didn't require an engine at the front of a train?
16:24:15 <Pikka> you have most of the patches, don't you?
16:27:03 <Pikka> that's another bad feature to get rid of
16:32:13 <b_jonas> what? a pushmi-pullyu?
16:32:15 <peter1138> imma implement all the features in opettd
16:34:25 <andythenorth> nothing wrong with push-pull
16:34:40 <andythenorth> what will happen to your cabbages?
16:34:49 <Pikka> they can stay I suppose
16:35:16 <andythenorth> I’d pull-push in Iron Horse if I could be fucked to
16:35:29 <Pikka> maybe I'll keep it, then
16:35:36 <Pikka> since it's a realisms set
16:35:42 <andythenorth> it’s not an annoying limitation or a boring choice
16:35:53 <andythenorth> you have to have 3 BAD FEATURES per set
16:36:07 <andythenorth> keeping Cabeeses?
16:36:35 <Pikka> removing the requirement, I think
16:37:00 <Pikka> people whinge about "having to" remove them
16:38:14 <andythenorth> HEP was genuine BAD FEATURE
16:38:18 <andythenorth> also regearing sadly
16:38:29 <andythenorth> I don’t think stats upgrading is worst thing ever
16:38:32 <Pikka> HEP was realisms gone mad
16:38:48 <Pikka> stats upgrading was because of limited IDs in TTDP
16:38:53 <andythenorth> I thought I’d found a bug when I saw HEP
16:39:14 <andythenorth> you should keep some BAD FEATURES
16:39:33 <andythenorth> I never figured out how to work the alternative liveries btw
16:41:24 <Pikka> I'm getting rid of those, too. I'll use the best one for each vehicle
16:43:51 <Pikka> it was based on companyid.. really a feature for multiplayer. but who cares about different patterns on different companies, if you have different colours anyway?
16:44:21 <Pikka> 70 locos. 20 steam, 30 diesel, 10 electric, 5 each DMU and EMU.
16:45:03 <V453000> just randomizing the sprites on a train is AMAZING Pikka imo :)
16:45:06 <Pikka> the pinkyorange columns are for half-size vehicle list options, one temperate-like express passenger oriented, one tropic-like heavy freight oriented
16:45:09 <V453000> slight differences, same engine, moar visual variety
16:45:19 <V453000> for 1 company obviously :P
16:45:30 <Pikka> can be confusing to players if they're too random, though.
16:45:42 <Pikka> if they build a train and it doesn't look like the buy list
16:45:57 <Alberth> would adding a start year parameter make sense?
16:45:59 <V453000> the "slight" differences was meant that way (:
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16:46:25 <Pikka> a start year parameter?
16:46:35 <Alberth> ie shift everything to the provided start year
16:47:11 <Alberth> probably not if you assume you're the only set being used
16:47:22 <V453000> I was actually considering making a parameter which would make the game like that patched daylength
16:47:30 <Pikka> I can't see how it makes sense anyway :)
16:47:55 <V453000> just shifting things isnt really doing much indeed
16:48:02 <Alberth> eg FIRS has other start year than your set
16:48:21 <Alberth> (no idea if that's really the case)
16:48:28 <V453000> just cause andythenorth doesnt understand nobody cares about furnaces :P
16:49:54 <V453000> year dependent availability of industries is meh :P
16:51:11 <andythenorth> I think it works so well :P
16:51:20 <andythenorth> what with reliable industry opening and such
16:51:30 <Alberth> ships newgrf also have start dates that may be different
16:52:21 <Pikka> I broke the ACS-64 stats
16:53:32 <V453000> Alberth: mixing vehicle sets usually means they are incomplete and thus not self-sufficient anyway :P
16:54:09 <Pinkbeast> I appreciate industry opening dates; it forestalls the point where the whole map is hooked up and there's nothing to do.
16:55:02 <V453000> or just nothing to do because the next industry hasnt arrived yet? :D
16:56:02 <Alberth> V453000: of course, and that's good probably
16:56:18 <Alberth> nuts for trains, squid for ships
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17:31:13 <frosch123> i wonder whether i should make a new sv release, just for the translations, or whether i should automate the upload of the sv nightly to bananas
17:31:58 <planetmaker> he. The solution for the latter is rather simple. I wonder whether we should actually implement that :D
17:32:36 <frosch123> well, it only makes sense for projects which have no "unstable" phases
17:33:38 <planetmaker> well, I'd implement it based on a .devzone file which could be added to releases or maybe also to other builds. But I'd not opt (or at least advertise) the latter, I think
17:34:14 <frosch123> well, but how to authenticate?
17:34:28 <planetmaker> like existence of the .devzone/build/releases/publish
17:34:46 <frosch123> we won't transfer ownership of all projects to openttdcoop :p
17:34:58 <planetmaker> I would try to push with the openttdcoop account and its credentials. You would have to use musa once and add it to the permissible upload 'persons'
17:35:21 <frosch123> ah, so that is actually possible?
17:35:32 <frosch123> i wouldn't know whether multiple people can upload the same thing
17:35:38 <planetmaker> that's my understanding, yes. Musa allows to assign several authors which hence would have access
17:36:37 <Alberth> how many of those projects exist?
17:37:12 <planetmaker> I don't really know :) A few. But every project can be uploaded by means of musa and thus add new authors
17:37:13 <frosch123> well, most projects only get into that "stable" phase, when the author leaves :p
17:37:14 <Alberth> (unless 1 such project is sufficient of course :) )
17:37:47 <frosch123> i think a local script is good enough
17:37:50 <planetmaker> Alberth, by default I'd only use that for releases, thus if it's a tagged version. Thus no daily upload
17:37:54 <frosch123> i don't think it needs devzone support
17:38:07 <frosch123> it's easier to decide the "stable" thing then
17:38:14 <planetmaker> I might still do that. Just for the sake of my own lazyness
17:38:42 <Alberth> ha, always busy trying to be lazy :p
17:39:06 <frosch123> ofc if can shovel the work onto pm, that's even better :p
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17:42:26 <planetmaker> 7 months and no further work... lazy lazy... I was discouraged back then to do so :P
17:45:30 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26936 trunk/src/lang/spanish.txt (2014-09-29 17:45:23 UTC)
17:45:31 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:32 <DorpsGek> spanish - 1 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
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18:17:58 <Wolf01> guys, wait... 0.9.15-RC13 (gnomoria)
18:18:27 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26937 trunk/src/tgp.cpp (2014-09-29 18:18:21 UTC)
18:18:28 <DorpsGek> -Cleanup: simplify the logic for heightmap generation in TGP; instead of performing more and more loops the larger the map becomes to elaborately set the height to 0 many times, just run it for each frequency and be done with it
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18:23:26 <andythenorth> I tried patching it once to make alpine landscapes
18:24:34 <andythenorth> V453000: you need to give YETI definite starting and ending points
18:25:24 <Wolf01> meh, I can only select one option
18:43:27 <Sylf> andythenorth, I saw that post too :D and loled
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18:53:55 <frosch123> why are so many people in the lomo forum?
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19:00:28 <peter1138> Maybe it has Canadian graphics?
19:04:08 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26938 trunk/src/tgp.cpp (2014-09-29 19:04:02 UTC)
19:04:09 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: simplify RandomHeight significantly
19:04:40 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26939 trunk/src/tgp.cpp (2014-09-29 19:04:34 UTC)
19:04:41 <DorpsGek> -Cleanup: some bits of coding style cleanup for TGP
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19:22:02 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26940 trunk/src/tgp.cpp (2014-09-29 19:21:55 UTC)
19:22:03 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r26937): comparing values of different signedness
19:23:49 * fjb ist getting strange phone calls in the evening. :(
19:24:39 <planetmaker> strange or advertising?
19:25:30 <fjb> Strange. Nobody speaking, only silent breathing.
19:27:38 <fjb> Then the phone gets hung up after a few minutes.
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19:28:57 <fjb> It's usually at the landline phone, but was also at my cell phone one time I wasn't at home.
19:30:04 <planetmaker> strange. Suppressed number or do you know it?
19:30:18 <fjb> Suppressed number, ofcourse.
19:31:23 <Celestar> ask your phone provider for assistance?
19:32:35 <fjb> It is the first time I'm getting two calls at one evening.
19:32:45 <__ln__> can they act without orders from the police?
19:32:51 <planetmaker> and of course you shouldn't have sent away the cashier of the local mafia without payment
19:34:36 <planetmaker> __ln__, I would expect so. It's your phone line, so it's a valid request to ask them to not allow calls from certain numbers
19:34:55 <planetmaker> they might know it after all (but not tell you the number)
19:35:48 <fjb> I don't think they are allowed to tell me the number. but myay be they can block it.
19:36:15 <planetmaker> yup, that's what I mean
19:36:31 <planetmaker> but of course you could also or additionally go to police
19:36:53 <planetmaker> and file a complaint for harrassment or however that's called
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19:52:17 <fjb> Talked to my phone provider. they offered my a security package, with a monthly fee, that would have enabled me to block every incoming phone call which has a suppressed number. Not very helpful.
20:00:28 <fjb> No, plain old (and usually very good) ISDN.
20:01:35 <__ln__> the obvious problem is that that way also all other suppressed numbers would be blocked too.
20:01:36 <fjb> I could block all calls with suppressed number from within my phone. but I have some relatives who always suppress their number.
20:02:01 <planetmaker> __ln__, yes, it would. But for me personally that would be likely only a minor annoyance
20:02:04 <fjb> __ln__: That is the problem.
20:06:09 <__ln__> planetmaker: in some unexpected situations that could be a problem, and you wouldn't want to miss the unexpected calls.
20:07:30 <__ln__> for instance, at least over here, if i call the police (112), and a policeman calls me back on a cell phone to ask for details, they'll be calling from a suppressed number.
20:08:09 <fjb> Hm, I should get a sine or noise generator and increase the volume till the other side says something or hangs up.
20:09:04 <__ln__> one should always have a vuvuzela around
20:09:35 <planetmaker> a vuvuzela a day keeps the people away :P
20:15:08 <FLHerne> "If you or your working area are struck with a nerf disc, blow your vuvuzela."
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21:37:52 <peter1138> Whatever happened to diagonal level crossings...
21:41:34 <peter1138> Also, I wish I could reroute rivers. Which idiot decided that rivers couldn't be made in-game?
21:41:52 <planetmaker> peter1138, you should ask Eddi|zuHause about those diagonal crossings
21:42:12 <Eddi|zuHause> they work, they just don't have graphics
21:42:55 <planetmaker> and ingame river building... yes... for 10x price of canals I'm for that. For 5+ years actually. I had that patch but it was rejected back then ;)
21:43:11 <planetmaker> or we should get rivers which heal themselves
21:43:13 <Eddi|zuHause> building canals should be cheaper
21:43:21 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, yes. 10x cheaper
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21:43:42 <peter1138> flowing rivers that flood if you cut them off?
21:44:34 <planetmaker> the challenge there is to not flood everything :)
21:45:19 <Eddi|zuHause> should they try to re-flood their old route first? what should they destroy? what happens if all directions are uphill?
21:45:52 <planetmaker> and should the downstream part simply dry up?
21:47:28 <Pikka> what's the difference between building a river and building a canal? just the graphics?
21:48:21 <peter1138> Anyway, rivers are mostly non-functional, so cutting them off is no bother.
21:48:58 <peter1138> It's easier flatten land than to use rivers for ships, or indeed, easier to not even use ships.
21:49:32 <planetmaker> the functional difference between river and canal is that rivers can be built on (some) slopes
21:49:44 <planetmaker> canals require flat land - or locks
21:50:32 <planetmaker> but that's a tiny difference really in terms of game play effect
21:52:43 <Pikka> rivers on slopes aren't traversable by shippes, right?
22:14:10 <Eddi|zuHause> make them traversable, but at 1/10 speed?
22:15:11 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Ships are no good for speed-critical cargo anyway, and overlapping means it's not a capacity constraint
22:15:16 <peter1138> Not when I add LOCKS
22:16:11 <Eddi|zuHause> locks don't always fit in all places
22:16:23 <Eddi|zuHause> need ship lifts for multiple heightlevels
22:54:47 <Pikka> I appear to have achieved -1 trains :D
22:55:46 <Pikka> I was building a few test trains in a new game, cleared the depot, and that happened. :D
22:58:39 <Pikka> saving and reloading the game fixed it, so I guess it's not a dig beal :)
22:59:41 <peter1138> Do you have little people and/or big people?
22:59:42 <fjb> If there are 3 trains in a depot and you are deleting 5 you have to buy 2 trains to have an empty depot. :)
23:00:23 <Pikka> still have the double-sized buy sprites in pineapple :)
23:10:16 <Geoff> gentlemen, is there a reason i'd be missing the steel car for trains
23:10:22 <Geoff> as in it's not in the depot list whatsoever
23:12:00 <Eddi|zuHause> bad combination of NewGRFs
23:14:23 <Geoff> apparently it's opengfx industries
23:14:29 *** fjb is now known as Guest1279
23:15:20 <Pikka> no steel cars with the default vehicles except in temperate
23:15:44 <Pikka> if you're using something like opengfx+ trains, you might have cars that can refit to steel though.
23:16:10 <Geoff> no carriages that i can see
23:16:43 <Pikka> might have to get a train newgrf, then :)
23:50:31 *** FLHerne_ has joined #openttd
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