IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-09-09
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11:22:37 <Eddi|zuHause> raise generic.ScriptError("Using a unit is in switch-ranges is not (temporarily) not supported", value.pos) <-- that has a spurious "not"...
11:24:57 <__ln__> maybe it should be parsed as "temporarily... yeah right.. not!"
11:27:02 <b_jonas> I should put vehicles in groups immediately as I create them, because it's much more pain to group them later.
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11:37:29 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: that does not sound like a file i modified
11:42:14 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: "make regression" works fine here.
11:46:04 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: also, i didn't actually do anything, i just pulled from nml and pushed
11:47:39 <planetmaker> well, the build on push failed. First it failed do to some oversight during some server changes. But this is something in the repo. Which is different from NML repo
11:48:24 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i don't know what's different. it works here.
11:48:52 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe the repo is corrupted?
11:49:25 <planetmaker> hg verify is clean
11:50:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i just made a clean clone, and it still works...
11:50:06 <planetmaker> and for sure, we changed regressions during update of nml py2->py3
11:50:40 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i'm fairly sure that i pulled all those changes...
11:51:28 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the easiest way to diff two clones?
11:55:36 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i can't find any changes to regression, except for my adding a "comment" regression
11:58:50 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i'm fairly convinced that this has nothing to do with anything i ever did.
11:59:17 <Eddi|zuHause> so it must be a compile farm problem
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12:04:16 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: this sounds more like something went wrong during checkout, like file was cut off...
12:04:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i never touched ternaryop.py
12:04:37 <Eddi|zuHause> so it makes no sense...
12:17:00 <planetmaker> well, I shall have a look at it again, though a bit later, Eddi|zuHause
12:50:59 <Eddi|zuHause> "california's once highest roller coaster 'colossus' partially collapsed after a fire broke out during construction work"
14:14:03 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
14:34:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess it didn't recognize "bulk_wagon_cb_capacity_switch" as a constant, and tries to invoke variable parameter evaluation here...
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14:38:50 <andythenorth> trying to figure out how the fuck my ship grf broke pikka’s trains
14:39:05 <andythenorth> which bit of the newgrf spec gives me a cb to fuck up train loading
14:39:15 * andythenorth is at work, trying to debug savegames that miss grfs
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17:06:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm somewhat stuck. i can't find a way to get the action2 id into a constant numeric, because at the time param_function is evaluated, that seems to not have been determined yet
17:06:53 <Rubidium> action6 to the rescue?
17:07:52 <Eddi|zuHause> you can't action6 an action2
17:08:01 <Eddi|zuHause> must be a compile time constant
17:16:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i also can't access the "feature" in this place, which is needed to get the action2 id
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17:42:39 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: wouldn’t the supply delivery parameter be scaled to the distance between industries?
17:42:48 <andythenorth> so measure that?
17:42:54 <andythenorth> do the median or something
17:43:29 <Eddi|zuHause> you can't really measure that.
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17:44:01 <Eddi|zuHause> you need to make a decent guess at game start and run with that
17:44:32 <Eddi|zuHause> you can run a few map creations and take an average
17:44:53 <Eddi|zuHause> you can even script that...
17:45:29 <Eddi|zuHause> but in the end, the newgrf must take values that are available at game start without looking at each industry
17:46:24 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26808 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2014-09-09 17:46:14 UTC)
17:46:25 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:46:26 <DorpsGek> catalan - 26 changes by juanjo
17:46:27 <DorpsGek> hebrew - 3 changes by rril
17:46:28 <DorpsGek> russian - 1 changes by Lone_Wolf
17:46:29 <DorpsGek> spanish - 7 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
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18:06:27 <Alberth> andythenorth: Ladycross passenger tram seems to shuffle its wagons :p
18:10:43 <andythenorth> that sounds like a bug
18:11:33 <b_jonas> ok, so now I need to fix this train route
18:12:20 <b_jonas> I think I should tear it down and rebuild, then rebuild the other coal network too
18:13:02 <Alberth> is the Buildwas tram really supposed to be 5 tiles long?
18:13:07 <andythenorth> humanity is saved!
18:14:00 <andythenorth> Alberth: also the buildwas is all engines :)
18:14:11 <andythenorth> and they’re double-engines even
18:15:04 <andythenorth> ladycross is a victim of unfinished offsets
18:15:34 <Alberth> yeah, it misses 9 plumes of smoke!
18:16:05 <Alberth> you wouldn't be able to see the city any more :p
18:19:25 *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck
18:20:57 <andythenorth> Alberth: but how’s the gameplay? o_O
18:21:19 <andythenorth> I’m obviously going to delete everything 3 times before 1.0, so no point finishing the graphics yet ;)
18:21:28 <Alberth> seems ok, although the renewed city growsth script is making a mess :)
18:22:14 <andythenorth> the aim is to provide one obvious vehicle choice for any situation
18:22:22 <andythenorth> I don’t think an RV set has achieved that yet
18:22:54 * Alberth doesn't have RVs yet :p
18:23:39 <Alberth> when is road hog supposed to have RVs?
18:23:39 <b_jonas> 5 tiles long tram? what?
18:23:51 <b_jonas> um, how many articulation point does that have?
18:24:12 <b_jonas> I mean, real trams can be quite long, but those have multiple articlation points
18:25:02 <Alberth> it consists of 10 engines :p
18:25:31 <b_jonas> ok wait, more useful question. is this new cargo distribution system useful for when I want to build feeder lines for cargo that travels both ways on the same line, like passengers or valuables?
18:25:57 <andythenorth> Alberth: telling you intro dates is cheating o_O
18:26:28 <andythenorth> the set is about 15 years behind RL because the early trucks and buses handled only a few tonnes
18:26:37 <andythenorth> and also trams are good
18:27:10 <Alberth> ok, takes a few more years, now in 1886 :)
18:28:06 <b_jonas> that's quite long, I don't think such a long tram exists in real life
18:28:35 <Alberth> that's ok, it's a game
18:28:39 <b_jonas> but if single tram carriages in ottd can't have articulation points in them then it could be simulating a four-carriage tram actually, in which case it's more realistic
18:28:57 <b_jonas> I just hope it doesn't collide with itself
18:29:00 <andythenorth> it’s also made up 10 double fairlies
18:29:13 <Miauw> My busses aren't leaving hte depot
18:29:20 <Alberth> b_jonas: you're looking at the year 1886 in that picture
18:29:27 <Miauw> They simply refuse to leave
18:29:31 <Miauw> There's no reason why they don
18:29:53 <Alberth> so please don't talk about realism :p
18:30:01 <b_jonas> Miauw: maybe there's a broken down bus right at the exit? or the road isn't connected to the depot because there's a height difference or because you forgot to build it?
18:30:10 <Miauw> The depot worked fine before
18:30:13 <Alberth> depot not connected to the road, or no orders?
18:30:14 <Miauw> It recently stopped working
18:30:48 <b_jonas> Miauw: is it maybe stopped (showing a red bullet)?
18:30:53 <Miauw> All of the buses are heading
18:30:59 <Miauw> there was a stopped bus right in front o fhtat
18:31:07 <andythenorth> can anyone debug this issue where FIRS has broken UKRS 2, (reported in the Squid thread)
18:31:11 <Alberth> andythenorth: it's lomo in reality, with such long trains :)
18:31:12 <Miauw> obscured by the depot and trees
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18:32:56 <andythenorth> in model railroad world there’s a saying - another entry from the “there’s a prototype for everything” department
18:33:07 <andythenorth> usually with story or photo of bizarre thing
18:37:16 <Miauw> i want to build a bus station next to my dock but i've ran out of trees
18:46:22 <b_jonas> Miauw: you may be able to increase the town rating by just transporting stuff to the dock for a while
18:46:44 <b_jonas> and sometimes you have to plan ahead, and build stations first, other things that break the town rating later
18:46:51 <Miauw> Went from apalling to mediocre at the end of the year
18:51:29 <b_jonas> argh, I completely forgot how to build good railway lines
18:54:39 <b_jonas> ok, maybe I never really knew
19:21:46 <b_jonas> argh, I messed up the signal directions
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20:38:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i think my approach is wrong :/
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21:53:01 <b_jonas> argh, this station entrance got ugly
21:53:11 <b_jonas> I put the entrance junction too far from the entrance
21:53:46 <b_jonas> I'll rebuild it again
21:56:57 <andythenorth> ugly stations are ugly
21:58:33 <b_jonas> I'm taking too many years to build this track
21:58:55 <b_jonas> good thing I had the precaution to have a small temporary train feed the power station so it doesn't choose to close
21:59:19 <andythenorth> build while paused
22:01:59 <b_jonas> ok, I think the line from one coal mine is now ready to start, but I'll then have to connect the other coal station too
22:04:53 <andythenorth> b_jonas is teddy-bear ottd-playing
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22:07:49 <andythenorth> but are your assignments done?
22:07:59 <Pikka> one out of two ain't bad
22:08:08 * andythenorth is practicing being parental
22:08:15 <andythenorth> child #1 has started proper school
22:08:25 <Pikka> I've got nearly four hours to do the second one, so I'm not panicking yet :)
22:08:49 <andythenorth> child #1 has also drawn stuff for ottd, mostly (100%) in pink
22:09:00 <andythenorth> fireworks engine pulling a fireworks carriage
22:09:12 <andythenorth> he can only be bothered to do the – views though
22:09:18 <andythenorth> and his sprite covers 3 tiles
22:09:23 <andythenorth> I tried explaining
22:09:47 <Pikka> only being bothered to do the - views describes about 75% of newgrf artists, doesn't it?
22:10:34 <Pikka> anyone can be an artist
22:11:09 <andythenorth> there are whole fricking proper rants on the false dichotomy between ‘art’ and ‘technical'
22:11:16 <andythenorth> and the class history of it and all the other shit
22:11:24 <andythenorth> all I can see here is
22:11:37 <andythenorth> pikka, MB, V453000 andythenorth et al do both drawing and code
22:11:49 <andythenorth> also zephyris and others
22:12:00 <andythenorth> which oddly coincides with successful newgrfs
22:12:23 <andythenorth> whereas people who do it ‘properly’ respecting all the distinctions - artists, coders, project managers
22:12:24 <Pikka> there were a few back in the day
22:12:35 <Pikka> US Set, planeset, tropic etc
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22:13:01 <planetmaker> well, it can work both ways. But it helps, if you got understanding of the other part
22:13:03 <Pikka> but yes, the ones where everyone sits in their corner are the ones where nobody takes responsibility for making things happen
22:13:48 <Pikka> Worley's UKSet episode 6 seems to have ground to a halt...
22:14:13 <andythenorth> I also think hiding behind the distinctions is a direct attempt to mask deep personal inadequacy
22:14:18 <andythenorth> but that’s just my view :P
22:14:25 * andythenorth has been thinking
22:14:30 <andythenorth> drinking / thinking /s
22:14:46 <andythenorth> I have been doing mods a service
22:14:53 <andythenorth> and not commenting on the brit thread
22:14:59 <andythenorth> saving you wear and tear on deleting my posts
22:15:19 <Pikka> what can one say that hasn't been said before?
22:15:41 <andythenorth> given enough time to think about it?
22:15:45 <andythenorth> sure there’s something
22:15:57 <Pikka> but I'm sure someone would remove it
22:16:01 <andythenorth> also whoever modded out my silly comments somewhere recently - also deleted MBs sensible comments
22:16:44 <Pikka> that was an interesting discussion :)
22:17:11 <Pikka> I think we decided to put your comment back, but then no-one could be bothered :)
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22:18:23 <planetmaker> just don't mention the war ;)
22:18:26 <andythenorth> should I change FIRS?
22:18:29 <andythenorth> there are loads of problems
22:18:47 <Pikka> they're not problems, just cute quirks. I say leave 'em
22:18:49 <planetmaker> you want other problems?
22:18:55 <andythenorth> I need to expand the industry window text to say “deliver 8t of metal to get 4t of supplies and 4t of other supplies"
22:19:11 <andythenorth> also FIRS has broken UKRS 2 trains, but only if you use a specific ship from Squid.
22:19:32 <andythenorth> and I need to fix the game’s ‘broken’ payment model, but not in the usual direction
22:19:56 <planetmaker> today s/o complained that opengfx+industries removed fruit, steel and paper vehicles and wagons
22:20:19 <planetmaker> he's using some kind of New Train Set NewGRF. Is that the new thing?
22:21:06 <andythenorth> It’s the New new thing
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22:22:25 <andythenorth> Pikka: what is assignment? Making or writing?
22:23:08 <Pikka> actual submission is on friday but I have to talk about it today, so I have to at least have it done enough to show.
22:23:33 <planetmaker> oh, a moderator found the thread with the user who was so sure that anything he found somewhere in the net is allowed for distribution
22:23:34 <andythenorth> whatever you art, make sure it’s a critical perspective on the dialectic surrounding post-colonial discourse
22:23:49 * Pikka puts on my robe and moderator hat
22:23:58 <andythenorth> this is post-colonial discourse
22:24:07 <andythenorth> as you are in post-colonial and I am talking to you
22:24:11 <andythenorth> or is still colonial?
22:24:36 <Pikka> andythenorth, it's vis com with a mob of fashion students, so there's not too much crtical perspectives of post-colonial discourse happening
22:24:50 <Pikka> not that I'm a snob about fashion students of course
22:25:18 <andythenorth> or make a line of watches
22:30:17 <Pikka> why are we still talking about infrastructure sharing?
22:30:39 <Pikka> what does infrastructure sharing do that being in the same company doesn't do with a hundred times fewer problems?
22:31:20 <andythenorth> same reason we talk about roadtypes
22:31:26 <andythenorth> like picking a scab
22:31:31 <b_jonas> I fixed the loading station so that trains that don't fit go to a waiting loop
22:31:41 <Pikka> roadtypes would actually be worthwhile though. and pretty.
22:31:53 <Pikka> infrastructure sharing is just a mess of conflicting ideas
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22:31:57 <planetmaker> Pikka, it allows to separate the achievement to a more personal level :)
22:32:00 <andythenorth> to me, infrastructure sharing is anti the whole game
22:32:09 <andythenorth> the game is tile based
22:32:15 <andythenorth> only so much can be on a tile
22:32:58 <andythenorth> but also I have never tried it
22:33:25 <b_jonas> this still doesn't work
22:33:46 <Pikka> back to the drawing board, b_jonas
22:34:25 <andythenorth> that’s what I do
22:36:02 <peter1138> andythenorth, sounds like you don't know what infrastructure sharing is...
22:39:07 <andythenorth> I can run my trains on your tracks?
22:39:19 <andythenorth> and we can fuck with each other by stopping trains?
22:39:35 <andythenorth> it’s equivalent of RL trackage rights
22:39:56 <andythenorth> could do it in Railroad Tycoon 3
22:40:47 <peter1138> there can only be one game script at a time right?
22:41:07 <peter1138> there goes my idea of delegating IS to a GS :p
22:46:30 <andythenorth> Pikka: can you render a cone and a sphere, and call that an assignment?
22:46:43 <Pikka> something along those lines
22:47:04 <Pikka> it's probably going to be lines in illustrator for today
22:47:10 <Pikka> and rendering for fritag
22:47:23 <andythenorth> I used to draw the splines in illustrator and then extrude them
22:47:29 <andythenorth> because I couldn’t work mesh tools
22:47:51 <andythenorth> funny old app, illustrator
22:48:28 <andythenorth> also bon nuit etc
22:48:57 <andythenorth> I will try not to do bad things in the forums
23:03:37 <Eddi|zuHause> isn't it "bonne nuit"?
continue to next day ⏵
