IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-09-08
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00:34:14 <Sylf> Or admin of what resource?
00:34:41 <OpenGame> someone who can activate central user management system accounts on the Openttd page
00:35:25 <Sylf> ah. You'll probably have to wait for a few hours - for European morning or later.
00:35:57 <OpenGame> there is no way to request a second email right?
00:37:46 <OpenGame> I will try tomorrow again, thanks for trying to help
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01:57:41 <OdinYggd> Is there a way to dry out lakes? I'm on a map right now that has a lot of sea level areas that are full of water but cut off from the main ocean. Raising them to grade would be costly, but if I could dry them as-is I could use them as they are
01:59:02 <luizrpgluiz> why not put apartments in openttd?
01:59:38 <luizrpgluiz> and also does not put factories?
02:02:21 <OdinYggd> Factories already exist though. They convert steel livestock or grain to goods
02:02:57 <OdinYggd> Though factories can be established in city blocks, and indeed many cities grew up around a large factory, they tend to keep to themselves because people don't like the smoke and noise.
02:03:21 <OdinYggd> Dunno. I would imagine that most of your city high rises are a mix of offices and apartments
02:03:25 <OdinYggd> they just aren't tagged as such
02:05:04 <luizrpgluiz> but it would be possible to put apartments for rent by each company? such as opening a real estate
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03:31:32 <Sylf> this discussion feels and smells like the continuation of the tt-forums posts...
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03:33:06 <Sylf> OdinYggd, there is no inexpensive way of drying the lakes. You either raise the lake area's land level, or use the demolish tool on the entire lake area.
03:34:02 <OdinYggd> I didn't know the bomb tool could do it
03:34:11 <OdinYggd> That in itself is good to know
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06:51:29 <andythenorth> is the livery UI for mail wagons driven by cargo prop 15?
06:51:42 * andythenorth is looking for reasons why FIRS mail is freight, and default mail is not
06:53:15 <planetmaker> mail is always fright
06:53:24 <planetmaker> moin andythenorth :)
06:54:25 <andythenorth> FIRS causes mail cars to use freight livery
06:54:43 <andythenorth> whereas default industries do not
06:54:54 <planetmaker> what else would they use? Passengers? Would sound wrong
06:55:42 <planetmaker> but... my letters don't have legs?
06:56:23 <andythenorth> it’s not so much logic as consistency
06:56:30 <andythenorth> mail is redefined from default for no good reason
06:56:37 <andythenorth> which causes vehicle set bugs
06:56:49 <planetmaker> :) Then don't re-define it
06:57:09 <planetmaker> would make a good patch, only code removal without feature loss :)
06:57:22 <andythenorth> I don’t know which prop is doing it ;)
06:57:32 <andythenorth> I thought maybe is_freight (prop 15)
06:58:03 <planetmaker> Honestly, I'm not sure there is a way to force pax livery for non-pax cargoes
06:58:17 <planetmaker> probably driven by cc_passengers class
06:58:32 <planetmaker> but I didn't look up openttd code
06:58:36 * andythenorth wonders if something is hard-coded in ottd code
06:58:45 <andythenorth> by cargo bit or such
06:58:46 <planetmaker> pax / non-pax surely is
07:02:49 <andythenorth> looks like it uses is_freight
07:04:08 <planetmaker> if (!CargoSpec::Get(cargo_type)->is_freight) {
07:05:15 <planetmaker> which is prop. 0x15
07:05:24 <planetmaker> case 0x15: // Freight status
07:05:24 <planetmaker> cs->is_freight = (buf->ReadByte() != 0);
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07:47:46 <andythenorth> another day, another horse
07:53:36 <andythenorth> train sets are quite fun
07:53:42 <andythenorth> the sprites are mostly symmetrical
07:54:00 <andythenorth> and the consists can be adjusted by player, so stats on each vehicle aren’t so hard to figure out
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08:02:41 <OpenGame> Is an admin online who can activate my Webtranslator account? The username is same as here. I got no email so I wasn't able to complete the registration.
08:11:08 * Xaroth|Work points at planetmaker
08:11:53 <Xaroth|Work> he might be afk though
08:12:09 <Xaroth|Work> but that's the last admin-like person i've seen talk in the last few hours
08:12:30 <OpenGame> I hope he doesn't run away too ;)
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08:19:30 * planetmaker grabs coffee mug and aims at Xaroth_
08:19:44 * planetmaker reconsiders. Waste of good coffee
08:22:31 <planetmaker> OpenGame, what language do you apply for?
08:22:36 <Xaroth|Work> you're aiming at the wrong one too
08:22:56 <planetmaker> Xaroth|Work, don't dare to say you're innocent. Thus can't be wrong ;)
08:23:24 <Xaroth|Work> There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
08:23:52 <planetmaker> OpenGame, and did you write an application e-mail to the translator e-mail address? if so: when?
08:24:03 <Xaroth|Work> and in case you understood that reference: blood for the blood god!
08:24:13 <OpenGame> no I didn't - I just saw it on the main page and clicked on the lovely heart ;)
08:26:04 <planetmaker> actually... worry now. I don't see any account with your nick registered with OpenTTD services
08:28:10 <OpenGame> if I try to register again with same name it tells me there is an acc with that name already
08:28:28 <planetmaker> you mean 'OpenGame'?
08:29:02 <planetmaker> maybe you had an account like 5+ years ago and didn't migrate it to our single-sign-on back then?
08:29:14 <OpenGame> I signed up yesterday for first time :P
08:29:56 <OpenGame> 'An account with that username already exists.'
08:30:03 <planetmaker> well, then maybe someone else did in ye ol' days. Those nicks are taken but inaccessible
08:31:41 <OpenGame> I have been able to sign up successfully - I think the email server was just down so I got no email.
08:33:15 <OpenGame> or the emailserver IP is blacklisted
08:34:51 <planetmaker> well, there is no user 'OpenGame' in our database which I see.
08:35:02 <__ln__> emails get queued for later delivery if some server is down in between
08:38:21 <OpenGame> Weird... I will try a new name
08:39:09 <planetmaker> do you use some weired e-mail address which is hosted microsoft or one of its 'services'? They sometimes act up and fail to provide proper e-mail services
08:39:19 <OpenGame> I just wanted to translate the last 25 missing strings for the German language
08:40:05 <planetmaker> heieiei. commits in the weekend brought many new strings it seems :)
08:40:26 <__ln__> OpenGame: will you be using google translate?
08:40:33 <OpenGame> lol if I try to sign up and press the Go to next step button I see no error now but it won't go on
08:40:49 <OpenGame> __ln__ I hope you are kidding. I'm a native speaker.
08:41:37 <__ln__> i also hope i'm kidding, but one can never know for sure
08:42:00 <planetmaker> __ln__, I've rarely seen that with OpenTTD translations
08:44:12 <OpenGame> " An account with that email already exists." now
08:45:03 <planetmaker> :) so... which e-mail (you can message in private as to not catch spam on it)?
08:46:13 <planetmaker> hm... strange... I don't find that either :S
08:46:38 <planetmaker> I wonder whether there's a separate DB for those where sign-up is not yet finished
08:46:45 <planetmaker> and if so: where :D
08:46:51 <OpenGame> maybe you can't see accounts which aren't active?
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08:54:41 <OpenGame> any plans now planetmaker? :P
08:56:41 <planetmaker> I will check with our sysadmin whether I miss anything. But there's nothing else what I can do now
08:57:56 <planetmaker> you could sign-up also at the #openttdcoop DevZone and start translating NewGRFs for now :)
08:58:26 <OpenGame> the account there is for everything right? not that I just signed up for a submodule but I try to log in on the main one
08:59:34 <planetmaker> dunno... where did you sign-up?
09:00:22 <planetmaker> there's tt-forums.net (our forums), there's openttd.org (our main site) and there's the #openttdcoop DevZone (3rd-party projects). Those three are different.
09:00:35 <planetmaker> The one you used is for openttd translations, bug reports and wiki indeed
09:00:42 <planetmaker> so that's the right one for the purpose
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09:03:14 <OpenGame> okay then I have to wait I think planetmaker
09:03:57 <OpenGame> can I see the missing strings without sign in?
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09:05:08 <planetmaker> I don't think via web translator
09:05:16 <planetmaker> but you can check the commits from the weekend
09:10:01 <planetmaker> make sure translations are consistent with existing strings. But web translator usually has some suggestions about related ones
09:10:33 <planetmaker> there's also discussion threads about German translations in both, tt-forums as well as the German tt-ms forums. both threads are not currently active, but well :)
10:02:49 <Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> what else would they use? Passengers? Would sound wrong <-- i suppose the idea is that mixed passenger/mail trains all use the same livery
10:15:07 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, sure :)
10:23:37 <b_jonas> what do valuables (on continental) use?
10:24:21 <b_jonas> you could rename the livery from "passenger" to "two-way cargo" which would include passengers, mail, and valuables
10:26:18 <planetmaker> err-no-context. err-no-parse
10:37:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i suppose valuables should be treated like mail
10:38:21 <__ln__> happy International Literacy Day to those who can read
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13:00:10 <LSky`> planetmaker, did the logs end up helping you guys with finding the desync issue?
13:00:43 <planetmaker> LSky`, yes, only they made it possible
13:01:32 <LSky`> if there happens to be a similar issue, dont hesistate to request the logs again
13:02:10 <planetmaker> I will. count on it :)
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13:02:33 <planetmaker> on the other hand: if you see a desync on server1/3, don't hesitate to start desync logging in the same manner :)
13:05:49 <planetmaker> it's sufficient to run the desync logging until the 1st desync occured. Thus turning it off afterwards might help reduce some load on the servers :)
13:06:03 <planetmaker> it can be quite a strain on it :)
13:06:46 <planetmaker> thus when you see one: turn on desync debugging. save game, load that very savegame, continue to play and hope it desyncs soon enough :P
13:07:25 <planetmaker> it kills all company passwords, though. Thus what I'd do: set some passwords and move users manually back to their company
13:14:45 <peter1138> trick: flag whether a company had a password in the save game
13:15:12 <peter1138> should be possible, saves messing with hashes or shit
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14:38:15 <planetmaker> ^ I find that actually scary. Scary to not tolerate it.
14:40:21 <__ln__> i don't think starting one's own police force (and calling it police) is tolerated in many western countries.
14:47:23 <Eddi|zuHause> it's actually not illegal to call yourself "police", you just can't claim any rights that a normal police has.
14:48:11 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a guy who was prosecuted because he sold t-shirts which say "police", but he got cleared because the name "police" is not protected
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14:49:06 <planetmaker> it's not even a German word. So...
14:49:24 <planetmaker> and it cannot be illegal to dress-up alike and try to talk to people in town...
14:49:43 <planetmaker> if people come and make up cases why that is illegal and succeed. Then it gets scary
14:50:13 <Pikka> planetmaker, impersonating a police officer isn't illegal in germany?
14:50:24 <planetmaker> Pikka, it is. But those people didn't and don't
14:50:43 <planetmaker> police is called Polizei in German. But they just had red jackets with 'sharia police'
14:50:44 * Pikka isn't sure what you meant by "dress-up alike"
14:52:05 <Pikka> I would expect someone wearing a uniform with the word "police" on it would have some kind of government authority
14:52:08 <Pikka> even if it's not a german word
14:52:38 <planetmaker> I would not. English is no official language here
14:52:58 <Pikka> that said, the article does make it sound like it was a one-off attention seeking stunt and the whole issue is a beat-up :)
14:53:50 <planetmaker> it does. But even if they go there every week or day. What grounds is there to fobid anyone to do that really? They don't look remotely like police
14:54:05 <planetmaker> It's different if they started to bully anyone. Then it's time to act
14:54:53 <planetmaker> but calling for anti-sharia-police laws like was already heard... that's just plain stupid :)
14:55:13 <planetmaker> alas, we live in times of hysteria
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15:39:46 <Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> I would not. English is no official language here <-- that doesn't actually matter. it wouldn't change anything if the shirts were in german.
15:40:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: "impersonating a police officer" is not "dressing up as police", it's demanding actions that only an official policeman can demand (like searching people or using violence)
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17:43:00 <acb5649> hello, I’m new to building OTTD from source. I keep getting an error that the compiler cannot find “table/strings.h”. I checked this folder, it does not exist. How can I get “strings.h”? I’m using Xcode.
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17:45:43 <Rubidium> acb5649: sounds like xcode's conversion of our makefile failed
17:46:58 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26807 /trunk/src/lang (6 files) (2014-09-08 17:46:46 UTC)
17:46:59 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:47:00 <DorpsGek> catalan - 18 changes by juanjo
17:47:01 <DorpsGek> croatian - 29 changes by VoyagerOne
17:47:02 <DorpsGek> english_US - 29 changes by Supercheese
17:47:03 <DorpsGek> italian - 29 changes by lorenzodv
17:47:04 <DorpsGek> russian - 29 changes by Lone_Wolf
17:47:05 <DorpsGek> spanish - 12 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
17:48:33 <acb5649> Interesting, that would also explain some other bugs then. Where should I place the makefile for optimal detection?
17:49:04 <Rubidium> no idea, I don't use xcode or OS X
17:56:33 <acb5649> looks like I wasn’t even including a makefile
18:01:36 <glx> makefile is auto generated by configure, I don't know how xcode handles that
18:01:59 <acb5649> not well, that’s for sure
18:13:40 <acb5649> I’m trying to resurrect ZodTTD’s iPad port, but there were no detailed instructions on how to actually compile everything.
18:16:48 <Rubidium> you are aware that the port can't be on itunes?
18:18:21 <Rubidium> primarily because Apple rejects GPL applications because they aren't compatible with their terms of service
18:21:46 <acb5649> well yeah, my intention was to put a version on the Cydia, the jailbrake app store.
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18:34:11 <Julian_> Hi, can someone maybe help me with the OpenTTDLib query webpage ? I dont get it to run. Just get a blank white webpage if i open the example with my query ips.
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18:48:07 <George> An error occurred on the page you were trying to access.
18:48:07 <George> If you continue to experience problems please contact your Redmine administrator for assistance.
18:48:08 <George> If you are the Redmine administrator, check your log files for details about the error.
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19:14:12 <^Spike^> George see devzone channel :)
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19:24:24 <Alberth> andythenorth: You are aware that Buildwas General Cargo Tram jumps towards the player in ____ view ?
19:24:40 <andythenorth> no but unsurprised :)
19:25:00 <andythenorth> might be borked offsets, or just bad sprites
19:25:30 <Julian_> can no one help me with openttdlib ? :(
19:26:56 <Alberth> both directions, don't if it's the same sprite
19:27:12 <Alberth> Julian_: very few server owners here apparently
19:29:48 <Alberth> andythenorth: smoke is also pretty bad
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19:33:42 <Alberth> livestock makes a lot of money :)
19:33:52 <andythenorth> livestock making money? o_O
19:34:03 <andythenorth> livestock should walk on it’s own
19:35:37 <Alberth> and deny me my money? no thank you :p
19:36:03 <Rubidium> I guess the parma ham will get really tough then ;)
19:37:24 <andythenorth> another HEQS tram IRL!
19:37:38 * andythenorth considers multi-gauge railtype
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19:53:31 <b_jonas> andythenorth: multi-gauge? isn't that a train type that can run on two rail types?
19:54:33 <andythenorth> mixed gauge then
19:56:04 <b_jonas> but what's that like?
19:56:11 <b_jonas> does it have three rails?
19:57:29 <andythenorth> it’s in the linked picture
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20:11:46 <b_jonas> is there a way to make a special railway waypoint that warns me with a message if a train ever passes through it, to debug rail routing?
20:12:10 <planetmaker> no such thing exists
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20:14:04 <planetmaker> interesting. that split was said to split accross the atlantic ;)
20:15:01 <Rubidium> interesting definition of atlantic
20:16:15 <b_jonas> I'm in the early stage of this game now, building simple coal trains to get some money, and buses to grow the towns, so I don't need debugging train routes yet
20:16:20 <b_jonas> but later it might be useful
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20:16:53 <Rubidium> create a trap with signals?
20:17:02 <Rubidium> then it'll eventually show up as non-profitable
20:17:26 <b_jonas> won't the routing algorithm notice the trap and not route there?
20:17:36 <b_jonas> whereas a waypoint won't influence where the train goes
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20:17:55 <Rubidium> if you make the trap right it shouldn't
20:18:21 <b_jonas> I'm not sure how to make the trap that way then
20:18:36 <planetmaker> oh, everything has an influence on the path :) signals, track bends, level crossings, stations, waypoints, other trains, bridges, tunnels, slopes,
20:18:39 <b_jonas> btw, I really like this industrial stations newgrf
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20:20:04 <b_jonas> Rubidium: ah, good idea
20:20:05 <Rubidium> and it doesn't influence the pathfinder as far as I can tell
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20:20:48 <Rubidium> you mustn't use path signals though, then it doesn't work at all
20:21:03 <b_jonas> and this works with two-way signals too
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20:28:12 <b_jonas> stupid train, you're going the wrong way!
20:28:25 <b_jonas> arghed, I jinxed it when I said I wouldn't need to debug trains thsi early
20:28:47 <andythenorth> what is ‘debugging trains’?
20:29:25 <glx> if train goes the wrong way it's a layout problem
20:29:34 <b_jonas> yep, it's a problem in my layout
20:29:37 <b_jonas> that's what I have to debug
20:30:05 <andythenorth> use the pro approach
20:30:06 <b_jonas> ah, I think I know the problem
20:30:08 <andythenorth> one track per train
20:30:30 <b_jonas> they're going into depots then want to go back to the station before
20:30:42 <andythenorth> one track per train, no signals
20:30:55 <glx> ha yes depot placement must be smart
20:31:26 * andythenorth never has train routing problems
20:31:29 <andythenorth> or rooting problems
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20:42:05 <b_jonas> how do I make the train load a full wagon of coal to half its carriages rather than loading half a wagon of coal to each carriage?
20:42:21 <b_jonas> I have trains that serve two coal mines that are very close to each other
20:43:15 <glx> disable gradual loading maybe
20:49:04 <andythenorth> it’s the same result no?
20:49:12 <andythenorth> 250t coal in a 500t train? or whatever?
20:49:45 <b_jonas> andythenorth: yes, but different source stations
20:50:07 <b_jonas> but it probably doesn't matter
20:50:08 <andythenorth> use a 50% load order
20:50:15 <andythenorth> you’ll have to patch for it first :(
20:50:39 <glx> each cargo packet knows from where it comes
20:50:46 <b_jonas> I think I should just leave it this way
20:51:07 <b_jonas> so it just doesn't display both sources in the train info dialog
20:51:42 <b_jonas> it probably doesn't matter for station ratings or industry production changes or income
20:51:46 <b_jonas> I won't try to fix it then
20:51:55 <glx> hehe imagine the dialog for passengers with cargo dist ;)
20:53:02 <b_jonas> well, I have four coal wagons on the train, so it could just list one station for the first two wagons and another for the next two wagons
20:53:19 <b_jonas> but it's not important really
20:54:19 <b_jonas> am I the only one who likes to use the autoroad tool but not the autorail tool?
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21:11:40 * andythenorth wonders if tram tracks show up in industry tile landscape checks
21:13:20 <andythenorth> var 60 has nothing for it
21:13:28 <b_jonas> whew, good thing I loaded this ship newgrf to this game
21:13:29 <andythenorth> I can’t read the tile bits directly?
21:13:36 <b_jonas> now I have a cheap ship to build
21:13:47 <frosch123> of course you can't
21:13:50 <andythenorth> every so often this fricking petrol stations -> tram tracks bug gets reported
21:13:55 <frosch123> they changed like 10 times
21:13:58 <frosch123> would be hell to support
21:14:21 <andythenorth> if I removed that petrol stations feature, I’d get the bug reported that they don’t build near roads
21:16:04 <andythenorth> or however it’s translated
21:16:12 <b_jonas> but what are those in ottd?
21:16:39 <andythenorth> petrol stations are petrol stations
21:16:56 <andythenorth> pikka has them as houses
21:18:39 <andythenorth> b_jonas: which ships?
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21:23:54 <b_jonas> ships from the FISH ship set
21:24:14 <b_jonas> gives me a cheap ship which I use to make a town on an island grow
21:24:15 <andythenorth> that one’s rubbish
21:24:22 <andythenorth> I wouldn’t touch it
21:24:36 <b_jonas> can you recommend another one then, for next game?
21:25:05 <andythenorth> (FISH 2 on bananas)
21:31:11 <b_jonas> stupid industries are starting to close because of supply problems. do they expect me to supply everything at once?
21:34:44 <FLHerne> b_jonas: If you can't supply everything anyway, why do you care about the industries closing?
21:35:47 <Eddi|zuHause> b_jonas: well, sorta. there is a protective period of like 5 years after game start, then practically everything you didn't connect yet closes...
21:36:26 <Eddi|zuHause> which, on larger maps, leaves you with vast stretches of unindustrialized landscape
21:46:25 <b_jonas> so now I have to check where the factories and sawmills and steel mills are located and connect some so they don't cloas
21:49:40 <b_jonas> oh, they removed this steel mill
21:52:17 <FLHerne> b_jonas: You only really need one of each
21:52:42 <FLHerne> The annoying thing is when they close after you've started building a route to them
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22:46:59 <b_jonas> I built trucks. I know I'll regret this. Trucks are a pain.
continue to next day ⏵
