IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-09-07
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01:01:33 <keoz> Rubidium: since I see you are extremely motivated on squirrel today: I noticed something that looks weird to me: if you save a boolean value (true|false), it becomes an integer when loading back a savegame (0|1). Maybee is there something to fix there (or maybee not). (sorry for not doing a proposer bug report).
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06:46:09 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26784 /trunk/src (5 files in 3 dirs) (2014-09-07 06:46:03 UTC)
06:46:10 <DorpsGek> -Codechange [Squirrel]: use WChar for the lexer
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07:38:28 <andythenorth> what do Bananas dependencies actually do?
07:39:09 <peter1138> what do you think dependencies does
07:40:09 <andythenorth> forces you to download something else before you can download the item
07:40:18 <andythenorth> or downloads the other thing for you automatically
07:46:28 <peter1138> manual would be retarded
07:49:56 <andythenorth> yes, we have never shipped anything retarded, any of us :)
07:50:22 <andythenorth> so if Iron Horse needs Termite, am I going to get whined at if I make Termite a dependency?
07:50:35 <Rubidium> andythenorth: kinda; I tend to try to avoid to write manuals ;)
07:51:23 <Rubidium> andythenorth: I guess 95% doesn't even notice it's selected as dependency
07:51:38 <andythenorth> it’s a bit ‘meh'
07:51:46 <andythenorth> without the right tracks, some vehicles just won’t show up
07:51:55 <andythenorth> but it’s not allowed to put railtypes in the vehicle grf
07:52:11 <Taede> call them bonus vehicles
07:52:21 <andythenorth> doesn’t matter what I call them :P
07:52:29 <andythenorth> nobody reads readmes
08:29:24 <peter1138> hmm, downloaded a torrent with a license file that says "all rights reserved"
08:32:44 <Rubidium> for some reason Imperial College expects that no one downloads copyrighted materials over their internet lines
08:33:27 <Rubidium> like... what internet page doesn't contain copyrighted materials?
08:33:39 <peter1138> that shows a lack of understanding about copyright
08:34:10 <Rubidium> and don't say nasa.gov because that contains the twitter icon, which is copyrighted
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09:22:23 <keoz> Rubidium: yes, the patch fixes the problem. Just tried it.
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09:31:03 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26785 trunk/src/script/script_instance.cpp (2014-09-07 09:30:57 UTC)
09:31:04 <DorpsGek> -Fix [Squirrel]: loading a value saved as boolean caused it to be of type integer instead of boolean
09:39:56 <Pikka> merry times with forum users, hooray
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10:08:09 <AndChat364656> Finding help in nonnative language does not help
10:11:00 <Pikka> hither and yon, andythenorth
10:11:15 <Pikka> chap with the spammy name has been making spammy posts :)
10:11:49 <andythenorth> I think he ploughs his own furrow
10:11:58 <andythenorth> takes all sorts to make a world
10:13:01 <andythenorth> well futility has to exist somewhere
10:13:03 <andythenorth> might as well be forums
10:13:15 <andythenorth> if only we could channel people’s efforts into useful things :P
10:13:20 <Pikka> could be his own forums, though
10:13:47 <Pikka> on an unrelated note, why aren't my assignments done yet?
10:13:55 <andythenorth> because you didn’t outsource
10:14:01 <andythenorth> or because the humanity
10:17:49 <Alberth> yep, no way to keep up with all his releases :)
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10:22:15 <keoz> Please: in Bananas I'm trying to edit a Gamescript entry, by setting a trunk revision as Maximum possible OTTD version for the script. I tried to choose "Nightly" and in the open field, "r26774" but that doesn't work. What's the right way to do that ?
10:23:01 <keoz> (by "doesn't work" I mean that I have an "* Invalid value." message.)
10:24:49 <andythenorth> but will I load graphics Squid?
10:25:03 <keoz> Oh I think it's fine, the "r" was not necessary.
10:30:07 <Alberth> that was my first thought when I read your question :)
10:32:46 <andythenorth> this ogfx SRN 4 is only the size of a fishing boat in Squid
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10:32:53 * andythenorth needs hoverzellepins
10:34:56 <andythenorth> Pikka: got 3DS Max? I don’t have it
10:36:00 <Pikka> and will the model look good rendered at ttdscales?
10:36:06 <Pikka> do we even need hoverzeppelins?
10:36:29 <Pikka> are hoverzeppelins a bad feature, and unrealistic to boot?
10:38:16 <andythenorth> I think 70mph ships are a BAD FEATURE
10:38:22 <andythenorth> but otoh, I don’t care
10:38:29 <andythenorth> unrealisms is more better
10:38:41 <andythenorth> do your assignments?
10:38:53 <Pikka> hoverzeppelins next weekend
10:40:25 <andythenorth> probly need to un-realism the SRN 4
10:40:45 <andythenorth> almost nothing else in Squid is specific model
10:42:56 <andythenorth> random wagon colours in Iron Horse
10:43:03 <appgreidd> what about trolleybuses?
10:43:03 <andythenorth> shall I just randomise between 1CC and 2CC?
10:43:15 <andythenorth> there are no trolleybuses in OTTD
10:43:42 <appgreidd> it would be fun to electrify the streets
10:43:58 <Pikka> I'll do hoberkellepins, you do roadtypes
10:44:20 <andythenorth> I’m doing wagon colours :P
10:44:30 <andythenorth> dunno, could do grey, brown etc
10:45:03 <andythenorth> oh there’s that train colour super yak shaving UI
10:45:11 <andythenorth> I’ll just 1CC / 2CC random
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10:59:09 <appgreidd> where can I set whether the trains reverse on red light or just stop
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11:31:04 <andythenorth> too soon for another IH release? o_O
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11:35:35 <andythenorth> random coloured cabeese?
11:35:49 * andythenorth cba to decide how many wagon types get random 1CC / 2CC
11:36:43 <andythenorth> also mail cars are coloured as freight wagons
11:38:41 <Pikka> unless wagon override, andy
11:38:55 <Pikka> but bad feetures and all
11:39:37 <andythenorth> there is wagon over-ride?
11:39:51 <andythenorth> what witchcraft is that?
11:41:00 * andythenorth doesn’t like random coloured cabeese
11:43:17 <Wolf01> indeed, I always thought they were all red
11:46:22 <andythenorth> round and round the garden
11:50:51 <Wolf01> meh, I'm tired of this stupid game (2020 my country), too much pay2play and too little automation, I think it's time to resurrect my old idea for playing OTTD with touch screens, by getting rid of the CTRL/SHIFT keys
11:54:44 <andythenorth> pay2play bores the arse off me
11:54:56 <andythenorth> I don’t have any ethical problem, it’s just boring
11:55:09 <Pikka> my favourite is pay2notplay
11:55:20 <Pikka> "this action will take 10 minutes, give us money to make it happen instantly"
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11:55:32 <Wolf01> I found a little trick to regenerate the energy in 5 minutes instead of 2 hours, and it involves only "alt+tab" in the right moment
11:56:12 <Wolf01> but I can't always find the right moment, so I have to wait some more time, or 2 hours directly
11:56:42 <andythenorth> Pikka: exactamly
11:56:52 <andythenorth> everything is timed or staged to the next payment opportunity
11:57:25 <Pikka> and it's all just cow clicking anyway
11:57:45 * Pikka grumbles about the masses being easily entertained by flashing lights
12:00:47 <andythenorth> pikka how do I mail wagon over-ride magic?
12:01:40 <Pikka> well, it would end up the same colour as the locomotive, which is probably not what you want
12:02:00 <andythenorth> could redefine mail as pax :P
12:02:06 <Pikka> sounds like a great feature
12:02:27 <andythenorth> this is an oversight in the yak-shaving livery UI
12:02:42 <andythenorth> it was clearly made by a train nerd without a full plan
12:02:58 <Pikka> liveries vs station refitting?
12:03:16 <Pikka> mailvan.mail -> mailvan.goods = repaint?
12:03:43 <Pikka> that's why in pineapple I don't have different vehicle appearances for different cargos
12:03:51 <Pikka> no magic changing wagon bodies
12:05:16 <andythenorth> nobody really gets salmonella from rice, right?
12:08:21 <andythenorth> this railcar gets instant rebuild at stations
12:08:24 <andythenorth> we’ll live with that
12:22:32 <Pikka> I demand you fix it immediately
12:44:28 * andythenorth failed to do it immediately
12:44:32 <andythenorth> was hanging out washing
12:45:43 <andythenorth> such a non-problem
12:46:07 <Alberth> let's just reduce the max # grfs to 5 or so
12:47:09 <Alberth> I always wondered how you can have separators tbh, as newgrfs are order-dependent?
12:47:56 <andythenorth> why are we even letting this guy use the forums to so ineptly try and keyword SEO his own project?
12:48:22 <andythenorth> it’s like he read a black hat SEO article from 1998
12:48:36 <andythenorth> I’m surprised his sig doesn’t contain links coloured to the background colour
12:49:25 <andythenorth> “one way to increase your page rank is to obtain links from other high-ranked sites covering similar subjects”
12:49:51 <andythenorth> “include key phrases alongside your links to be indexed for those key phrases"
12:51:31 <Pikka> I got rid of the threads in the graphics forum and posted a request for immediate hanging in the mod forum
12:51:35 <Pikka> that's about all I can do :)
12:51:44 <keoz> Yeah. That guy ... That's just spam.
12:51:46 * andythenorth goes back to finding bugs
12:52:09 <andythenorth> my railcar jumps off the rails in one \ direction
12:52:16 <andythenorth> looks odd in stations
12:52:39 <Pikka> although shouldn't your railcar have the same offsets in both \ directions?
12:52:53 <andythenorth> I would have thought so
12:52:57 <andythenorth> the sprites are in same place
12:57:08 <andythenorth> yeah, clearly I have no idea what I’m doing with offsets
12:57:12 <andythenorth> someone else should do it :P
13:11:45 <keoz> Alberth: speaking about GRF's max limit: I've been thinking to increase that limit. Should I expect something trivial or lot of problems ? :)
13:12:04 <andythenorth> there is the problem of ‘why?’
13:12:10 <andythenorth> but that never stopped anyone
13:13:25 <Alberth> the technical problem of enlarging the limit is the size of network packets in MP
13:13:37 <Alberth> or rather, of the Internet in general :p
13:14:20 <Alberth> current limit is based on filling one packet with newgrfs
13:14:40 <Alberth> thus if you want more, you need to split it over multiple network packets
13:15:05 <keoz> yeah. here it comes difficult when there is to deal with networking stuff
13:16:14 <Alberth> also, I don't understand why the current limit is not sufficient, but that is perhaps just me
13:16:21 <keoz> Anyway. If I do it it wouldn't be for an eventual trunk inclusion, just for my personal and not-MP use.
13:16:35 <Alberth> find a random patch then
13:16:39 <keoz> I'll maybee try and enjoy seeing my game crash endlessly
13:16:59 <Alberth> there are several around that just change the limit, and claim "it works"
13:17:18 <keoz> Oh. Never heard about them.
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13:18:31 <keoz> as for the sufficient/not sufficient, well, when you can't put anything inside anymore, it is not sufficient anymore :p
13:19:47 <Zuu> Sorry for OT, but Noooooo.... Rail buses (in Train Fever) has gone out of production in my game. Now I have to move around rail buses in a not fully connected network. :-)
13:20:34 <Alberth> Zuu: off topic? you're talking about a game and about transport :p
13:20:51 <Zuu> I'm talking about the wrong game :-)
13:21:33 <TrueBrain> wait, is Zuu implying this channel can be on topic?
13:21:33 <Alberth> hmm, we don't have a patch in the issue tracker, only a feature request :p
13:21:36 <TrueBrain> I RESENT THAT STATEMENT
13:21:58 <frosch123> TrueBrain: this topic is about the olympic games
13:22:04 <Zuu> In that game frequency is king, so low capacity rail buses that go only a bit slower than a 3-4 times as expanisve train is relly nice.
13:24:43 <keoz> Alberth: you many votes ? :p
13:28:02 <Alberth> oh, don't know, never look at that
13:28:38 <keoz> UDP packet. 1500 bytes or so, no ?
13:29:34 <TrueBrain> overhead and everything
13:29:34 <andythenorth> no Train Fever mac
13:29:41 <andythenorth> that means you get more newgrfs
13:29:57 <andythenorth> TrueBrain can you do a banaramas rename?
13:30:09 <TrueBrain> depends on my mood, I guess
13:30:21 <andythenorth> how is your mood?
13:30:28 <TrueBrain> what do you need remnamed?
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13:31:10 <andythenorth> “FISH 2” - “Squid Ate FISH!”
13:31:16 <andythenorth> doesn’t matter if not in mood
13:36:24 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26786 trunk/src/network/network.cpp (2014-09-07 13:36:18 UTC)
13:36:25 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Also replay failed commands.
13:52:27 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26787 trunk/src/saveload/order_sl.cpp (2014-09-07 13:52:20 UTC)
13:52:28 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r20547): Loading a game with order backups leaked Orders and left unreachable items in the pool.
14:21:22 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26788 /trunk (3 files in 2 dirs) (2014-09-07 14:21:16 UTC)
14:21:23 <DorpsGek> -Add: Desync replay option to skip/replay failed commands
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15:07:32 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by frosch :: r26789 /branches/1.4 (5 files in 3 dirs) (2014-09-07 15:07:22 UTC)
15:07:33 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: [1.4] -Backport from trunk:
15:07:34 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Incorrect CFLAGS when enabling gprof profiling (r26737, r26735)
15:07:35 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Do not reset the last selected airport or layout, unless it is really necessary [FS#6083] (r26732)
15:07:36 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Use the normal search path to look for xdg-open at Unix [FS#6077] (r26724)
15:09:16 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by frosch :: r26790 /branches/1.4 (6 files in 5 dirs) (2014-09-07 15:09:05 UTC)
15:09:17 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: [1.4] -Backport from trunk:
15:09:18 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Loading a game with order backups leaked Orders and left unreachable items in the pool (r26787)
15:09:19 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Buffer overrun in SQCompiler::Error (r26764)
15:09:20 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Desync due to not always properly restoring game state from the savegame (r26753)
15:16:24 <frosch123> andythenorth: the 2-4-0-chaplin is driving backwards
15:16:42 <frosch123> in rc-1, already known/fixed?
15:17:08 <andythenorth> random direction
15:17:32 <andythenorth> is it wrong compared to depot view?
15:17:54 <frosch123> no, depot and map are consistent
15:18:04 <frosch123> purchase list is forward :)
15:19:03 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26791 /branches/1.4/src/lang (23 files) (2014-09-07 15:18:58 UTC)
15:19:05 <DorpsGek> [1.4] -Backport from trunk: language updates
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15:25:30 <|xk05|> there needs to be an easier solution to the goofy problem of having an airport that is now too busy to conveniently upgrade
15:26:00 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26792 trunk/src/gfx.cpp (2014-09-07 15:25:54 UTC)
15:26:01 <DorpsGek> -Fix: TC_NO_SHADE did not work for 32bpp text rendering.
15:26:01 <Alberth> but you have "close airport"
15:26:40 <Alberth> other than that, yes a better way would be useful
15:26:50 <Alberth> it closes the airport? :)
15:27:05 <Alberth> airport gets skipped in the order lists, I think
15:27:09 <frosch123> it unbusyfies an airport :)
15:27:26 <|xk05|> ah, but you still have the routing issues, though, right?
15:28:05 <Alberth> planes just skip the order and go to the next airport on their list
15:28:33 <Alberth> not sure what they do when they have only 2 airports, they probably stay in the hangar or so
15:28:40 <|xk05|> so if you rebuild a larger airport, they return?
15:29:00 <Alberth> if you 'unclose' the airport :)
15:29:44 <|xk05|> everything just stayed in the pattern above the site
15:30:14 <|xk05|> so 'close airport' is addressing that specific issue, ok, cool
15:30:37 <Alberth> not really cool, imho, but it's the best we have currently
15:30:59 <Alberth> or rather, least worse :p
15:31:38 <|xk05|> naturally, i cannot build a hub yet, so i can just chalk that one up to a learning experience :p
15:31:42 <andythenorth> I thought close airports was quite good?
15:31:48 <andythenorth> did I miss something? o_O
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15:35:23 <Alberth> |xk05|: you may also make enough room in advance, so the time to swap airports is as small as possible
15:36:02 <Alberth> please do make sure, an AI doesn't use your empty space to dump its own airport, as happened to me once :p
15:36:15 <|xk05|> so, if the aircraft are going to just stay in the pattern above the site, your upgrade better /be/ an upgrade, or you've only stacked /more/ planes at once, i can see some problems with that if your not adding runways
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15:37:35 <Alberth> I usually send planes already circling above the airport to their next destination, to clear the sky somewhat
15:37:49 <|xk05|> Alberth, thats a good idea
15:38:55 <|xk05|> in 2 years i can upgrade to hubs, so, if i just have to expand, i can branch until then
15:41:09 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26793 /branches/1.4 ( src/gfx.cpp) (2014-09-07 15:41:03 UTC)
15:41:10 <DorpsGek> [1.4] -Backport from trunk:
15:41:11 <DorpsGek> - Fix: TC_NO_SHADE did not work for 32bpp text rendering (r26792)
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15:45:16 * andythenorth considers splitting oil tank wagon and tank wagon in Iron Horse
15:45:42 <andythenorth> or foodstuffs tanker
15:51:17 <|xk05|> have you seen a multiplayer server with fire engines?
15:53:40 <|xk05|> i found the eyecandy vehicles newgrf, but i havent found it in multiplyer, yet. the fire trucks, ambulances and cop cars are fun :)
15:55:27 <APTX> apart from mesing up the terminal...
15:56:55 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26794 /branches/1.4 (7 files in 4 dirs) (2014-09-07 15:56:49 UTC)
15:56:56 <DorpsGek> [1.4] -Update documentation
15:58:05 <Alberth> APTX: I'd suspect llvm more than openttd, tbh :)
15:58:23 <APTX> Alberth: so I have the llvm source in disk
15:58:30 <APTX> why would that affect openttd?
15:58:33 <andythenorth> base set has oil tanker and water tanker
15:58:52 <andythenorth> ok so there are a few reasons I want to split tankers
15:58:55 <Alberth> if it fails to compile openttd or iconv properly, anything can happen
15:59:02 <andythenorth> would you know what a ‘foodstuffs tanker’ was?
15:59:08 <APTX> Alberth: does openttd just read random files?
15:59:27 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26795 /tags/1.4.3-RC1 (3 files in 3 dirs) (2014-09-07 15:59:22 UTC)
15:59:33 <Alberth> not that I am aware of
15:59:34 <Rubidium> APTX: no, just those mentioned in readme.cfg
16:00:04 <Rubidium> though a ls in /home/aptx/projects/llvm-3.5/llvm/tools/baseset/ will probably mess up your console as well
16:01:00 <Alberth> I mean that the c++ compiler may generate wrong code, which works incorrectly on some case that happens to exist in the program or in one of its libraries
16:01:43 <APTX> I'm not using llvm to build openttd
16:02:26 <Rubidium> APTX: try openttd -d9 and paste that output
16:03:09 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26796 trunk/src/script/squirrel.cpp (2014-09-07 16:03:02 UTC)
16:03:10 <DorpsGek> -Fix: reading of high byte of "ASCII" files yielded a negative int8, then casted to an uint32 which caused the Squirrel lexer to bail out. Regardless... the file isn't actually ASCII, but that's beyond the point for now
16:03:47 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26797 trunk/src/script/squirrel.cpp (2014-09-07 16:03:41 UTC)
16:03:48 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: rewrite the UTF8 reading code to make use of already existing functions instead of partially trying to implemented them
16:05:19 <APTX> Rubidium: it started reading tar files, can't really post the logs
16:06:23 <Rubidium> though the last hundred lines before that errors might be enough
16:06:41 <Rubidium> ... to figure out where it tries to get that path name from
16:07:00 <frosch123> APTX: with "paste" Rubidium meant "paste.openttdcoop.org"
16:09:54 <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r26798 /trunk/src (autoreplace_gui.cpp build_vehicle_gui.cpp) (2014-09-07 16:09:48 UTC)
16:09:55 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Code style fixes.
16:10:33 <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r26799 /trunk/src (3 files) (2014-09-07 16:10:27 UTC)
16:10:34 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Export vehicle sorting data and functions.
16:11:20 <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r26800 /trunk/src (4 files in 4 dirs) (2014-09-07 16:11:14 UTC)
16:11:21 <DorpsGek> -Feature[FS#1640]: Vehicle sorting in autoreplace GUI.
16:11:57 <frosch123> he, the weather is not that bad... why so many commits? :p
16:12:04 <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r26801 /trunk/src (autoreplace_gui.cpp lang/english.txt) (2014-09-07 16:11:58 UTC)
16:12:05 <DorpsGek> -Add: Labels above the lists in the autoreplace GUI.
16:13:03 <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r26802 /trunk/src (7 files in 2 dirs) (2014-09-07 16:12:58 UTC)
16:13:04 <DorpsGek> -Add: Command to set visibility of an engine for a company (based on patch by Juanjo).
16:13:35 <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r26803 /trunk/src (build_vehicle_gui.cpp rail.h) (2014-09-07 16:13:29 UTC)
16:13:36 <DorpsGek> -Doc: Document some fields in the build vehicle gui, and the rail definition struct.
16:13:59 <APTX> Rubidium: it doesn't happen again
16:14:12 <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r26804 /trunk/src (6 files in 5 dirs) (2014-09-07 16:14:06 UTC)
16:14:13 <DorpsGek> -Feature: Allow hiding of non-interesting engines in the build vehicle GUI.
16:14:39 <Rubidium> frosch123: critical mass
16:14:44 <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r26805 /trunk/src (4 files in 4 dirs) (2014-09-07 16:14:38 UTC)
16:14:45 <DorpsGek> -Feature: Allow hiding of non-interesting engines in the autoreplace GUI.
16:15:13 <Alberth> sorry, should have kept them for another day :p
16:15:30 <Rubidium> you generally need at least two people (somewhat) active to get commits flowing (reviews and the likes), so whatever is saved until critical mass is reached
16:16:02 <Rubidium> also, if critical mass isn't reached the channel is boring so you do other things, making it hard to reach the critical mass
16:18:16 <APTX> Rubidium: why does openttd look for tars?
16:18:21 <Alberth> somewhat, although I need much more time than a single weekend to write such a patch queue
16:18:38 <Alberth> APTX: it's our container storage format
16:19:03 <Rubidium> APTX: because that's the way content can be easily packaged, and thus the way content from bananas and such is distributed
16:19:16 <APTX> but why does it look through all of home?
16:20:13 <Rubidium> it tells you where it looks for stuff
16:20:16 <APTX> where's that usually installed?
16:20:29 <Rubidium> in the installation folder
16:23:07 <APTX> I guess it wasn't packaged...
16:30:32 <APTX> right, the issue doesn't happen anymore, though I'd love to know why it did happen in the first place
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16:36:38 <andythenorth> would you expect a Chemical Tanker to refit oil?
16:36:46 <andythenorth> or an Oil Tanker to refit chemicals?
16:37:40 <FLHerne> Oil is a (mix of) chemical(s) :P
16:38:45 * FLHerne thinks chemical-free products should be priced much higher, because absolute vacuums are quite tricky to obtain
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16:45:14 <Alberth> I wouldn't refit probably, but that may be just me
16:48:00 <frosch123> @topic set 1 1.4.2, 1.4.3-RC1
16:48:00 *** DorpsGek changes topic to "1.4.2, 1.4.3-RC1 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: hg, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | #openttd.dev for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices"
17:08:22 <andythenorth> ‘edibles tanker'
17:08:29 <andythenorth> refits milk, alcohol, water
17:09:12 <Alberth> don't confuse the latter two :p
17:18:46 <Alberth> edibles would be ok to me
17:19:13 <Alberth> so much nicer than steel tanker wagons!
17:20:06 <Alberth> now just hope they don't carry beer, or they may disappear with V nearby
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17:43:16 <Alberth> keoz: you don't support opengfx+industries?
17:45:52 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26806 /trunk/src/lang (esperanto.txt gaelic.txt) (2014-09-07 17:45:44 UTC)
17:45:53 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:54 <DorpsGek> esperanto - 1 changes by Ryton
17:45:55 <DorpsGek> gaelic - 49 changes by GunChleoc
17:49:01 <keoz> Alberth: at least, not for now. I've been considering it but I need to better understand how it works.
17:49:38 <keoz> If I'm not wrong, the problem with opengfx is that you have a variable number of cargos depending on settings.
17:50:23 <Alberth> that's entirely possible
17:50:38 <Alberth> I don't know such details :)
17:50:51 <keoz> That's not necessarily a problem but I need to figure out a way to handle the case :)
17:51:49 <andythenorth> an edibles tank car is quite different to an edible tank car :P
17:55:53 <andythenorth> FIRS supply stockpiles?
17:56:50 * andythenorth rejects that one
18:00:05 <|xk05|> no. easier to just change the graphics, right? now all food trucks will be beer trucks. because beer is food.
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18:11:30 <OpenGame> Hi. Can an admin activate my acc pls? I've got no email to activate my account.
18:12:04 <frosch123> what account? where?
18:12:32 <OpenGame> My central user management account for openttd
18:21:14 <andythenorth> why do I have to change FIRS Supplies, again? :(
18:25:20 <keoz> (well, still better with the some hacks I did to it :-) )
18:25:30 <Alberth> the step from 2x to 4x is nasty, but in a good way, I think now
18:26:15 <Alberth> my biggest problem is more that once it is running, you don't need to look after it much, industries stay as they are, supplies continue to work
18:26:42 <keoz> well that was the intent, no ? :p
18:26:55 <Alberth> if it was, then it works :p
18:27:03 <keoz> For myself, I reenabled all industries closure
18:27:17 <keoz> I like it more seing the map changing over time
18:27:44 <keoz> and, additional feature: opening/closure of farms are perfect to reduce the problem of to many trees :-)
18:28:18 <Alberth> you can set the tree growth algorithm in the generate map window, you know ;)
18:28:40 <keoz> well you have not that many choices
18:29:29 <Alberth> 'none' works quite good :p
18:29:59 <keoz> No, something else I was thinking to is a patch for stopping industries growth. I already did it for personal use, its quite a trivial change and in trunk it could be optional. What would you think about that ?
18:30:04 <Alberth> I have 'improved' currently, some trees in temperate looks good
18:31:11 <Alberth> I like change in production, as it means I have to adjust my network to copy with the extra trains
18:31:36 <keoz> stopping industries growth doesn't mean stopping closure/opening
18:32:25 <keoz> Yes, I read you to fast.
18:32:52 <Alberth> closing well-serviced industries would be a good way to cause major havoc in a network :)
18:33:25 <Alberth> industry chains go down :D
18:33:58 <keoz> with complex chains as in FIRS, that'd be the kind of think where I say "Oh hell, better go out drink a bear"
18:34:04 <Alberth> it does mean you should spread out to reduce your risks
18:34:57 <Alberth> I am very happy with the basic climates, they are sufficiently complicated to me
18:35:35 <andythenorth> I find them much more fun
18:35:41 <keoz> Don't play with it since years :p
18:35:44 <andythenorth> although I like Heart of Darkness best
18:36:01 <keoz> I love FIRS. Definetely. In its most complex flavour :p
18:36:26 <keoz> andythenorth: the good news, is that RCG supports Hearth of Darkness now :p
18:37:20 <keoz> the script I did to change completely city growth based on cargo deliveries
18:38:54 <andythenorth> black tank wagons, or company colour?
18:47:58 <andythenorth> determined how? o_O
18:58:16 <keoz> Na I was joking andythenorth. Though it could still be possible. In pikka's UKRS2, the settings allow choosing between 2CC or original colors.
18:58:44 <Alberth> also, perhaps explain in a story book what each category is?
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19:00:21 <Alberth> and I getloads of debug messages: dbg: [script] french:1: warning: STR_TOWNBOX_0: Param idx #0 'STRING' doesn't match with template command 'STRING3' also for other STR_TOWNBOX strings
19:00:25 <keoz> Alberth: thanks for the suggestions. I'll have a look on it.
19:01:05 <keoz> mmh strange about those messages. I had them once but I thought it came from another script. Then they disappeared oO
19:01:48 <keoz> you're using the forums' topic -r109 I suppose ?
19:02:42 <keoz> Ok. All of this in the TODO list :)
19:03:24 <keoz> Alberth: as about the storybook, in the last revisions I implemented a storybook page about categories. You don't have it ?
19:04:06 <Alberth> story book button is greyed out
19:06:01 <Alberth> using default industries
19:07:02 <keoz> Yeah I like better the first line as it
19:07:29 <Alberth> also when I start a new game, I have no story book, so it's not in reloading a game
19:07:38 <keoz> for the other ones, i'll keep the "*"
19:07:54 <keoz> yes that's normal. The SB is only built on map generation
19:08:01 <keoz> and when reinitializing data
19:09:39 <keoz> Once more: we agree that you're using the -r109 which I posted on the forum ?
19:10:01 <Alberth> sorry if that was not clear
19:10:20 <keoz> I was pretty sure but wanted to be completely :)
19:10:43 <keoz> (on the forum topic, eventually)
19:10:47 <Alberth> trunk 21667:624bb55eac8e, or svn r26805
19:11:50 <frosch123> it's outdated for 90 minutes or so
19:12:16 <keoz> Mmh. There were a lot of squirrel changes today. But I updated my trunk, so I don't think it comes from there.
19:13:06 <OpenGame> Hi. Can an admin activate my central user management system account please? I've got no email to activate my account.
19:13:09 <Alberth> 21667 is the hg local revision number, not an svn number :)
19:13:16 <keoz> Thanks. I'll have a look on this. Meanwhile you can either use the last stable (v4) or, if everything else works with the -r109, going on on this;
19:14:00 <frosch123> OpenGame: just try to register again
19:14:11 <OpenGame> Won't work as the email server seems to be offline frosch123
19:14:26 <frosch123> then wait till it is online again?
19:14:59 <Alberth> keoz: no problem, just having a quick go to get an idea what your script does
19:15:03 <keoz> Alberth: Actually, the version I posted today should have been tested some more before public releasing, because there are really a huge lot of changes (the SB among). But since Rubidium made a really quick fix about a little bug in Squirrel, the GS was broken. Hence a fast release.
19:15:10 <Alberth> it doesn't have a goal right?
19:16:03 <Alberth> some andy-s are hooked on goal-ish scripts :)
19:16:05 <keoz> it's just really intended to remasterize city growth. Though I don't exclude to add some optional extra challenges, once the basic mechanism is correctly built.
19:16:43 <Alberth> in a sense you're copying the tropical behaviour to other climates
19:17:01 <keoz> can be. Never played tropical :p
19:17:01 <Alberth> there you have to bring water and food to desert towns to grow
19:17:25 <keoz> But what I wanted was a script were you also need to have a local functional industry for a city to growth
19:17:37 <keoz> hence the impact of raw/transformed goods on growth
19:17:44 <Alberth> what and CS made all this effort to bring you 4 climates with different challenges in each :)
19:18:19 <keoz> I'm terribly conservative in this respect. I always play same climate with same GRF's :p
19:18:21 <Alberth> you seem to be doing a better job at it than the tropical game
19:19:55 <Alberth> I will probably not play your script much, I prefer focussing on industries rather than towns
19:21:47 <keoz> Outch. There were still 20 commits since the pull I did this morning oO
19:22:08 <keoz> k. updating once more :)
19:22:24 <Alberth> the newgrfs of that game should all be on bananas, but sometimes I get temporary versions of newgrfs. If you have trouble loading the game, just let me know
19:22:45 <Alberth> you didn't pay attention to the Dorpsgek spam with commits? :)
19:23:11 <keoz> Yes, I've seen it but I didn't think they were so much :)
19:23:50 <Alberth> some were in the 1.4 branch, so they don't count :p
19:24:02 <keoz> oh, actually some commits "jump" 3/4 commit numbers. Didn't know that happens.
19:24:41 <Alberth> yeah, those are changes outside /trunk
19:25:02 <Alberth> today in /tags/1.4.<something> I think
19:25:18 <keoz> I thought revision numbers were branch specific
19:25:38 <Alberth> no, they are shared over the entire repository
19:25:59 <keoz> Yes. thinking to, it's normal.
19:26:13 <Alberth> which is also probably the only way to keep sane if you work in lots of branches :)
19:26:21 <keoz> I use heavily hg since I discovered it but never played with branches so far
19:26:45 <Alberth> I just make new hg clones instead of branching
19:27:04 <keoz> same here. I even prefer have separated clone for working on patches
19:27:14 <keoz> even if theorically I could queue them together
19:27:55 <Alberth> yep, I have 29 openttd clones currently :)
19:28:08 <Alberth> some are quite old :)
19:31:30 <keoz> Mmh. When loading your game with an updated perfecly vanilla trunk; I have the storybook.
19:31:56 <keoz> that means at least that the storybook is stored in the savegame
19:34:11 <keoz> Well ok, I'll search into it. Thanks for reporting it and for the other suggestions, btw.
19:36:09 <keoz> I'll start fixing the STRING bug. Maybee the one solves the other ...
19:38:46 <Alberth> deleting the unpacked directory also didn't fix it, so it's not directory versus tarfile either
19:39:09 <Alberth> do you use hg for openttd as well?
19:40:04 <keoz> I just tried with r26805
19:42:09 <keoz> I'm suspecting some problem with the init phase, the storybook creation being done at an unallowed moment. I already had some issues with that. I thought it fixed but there's maybee still something wrong with it.
19:45:05 <keoz> No, it can't be that. If there was a unallowed creation of the SB, it wouldn't be in the savegame
19:46:53 <keoz> Alberth: do you have the SuperLib v38 ?
19:47:34 <keoz> Yes, you necessarily have, the game would complain without that.
19:48:47 <frosch123> Wolf01: proper engines have 3 lights
19:51:37 <keoz> What do you developers do when you can't reproduce a bug ? :p
19:52:03 <frosch123> depends on the type of bug
19:52:21 <frosch123> if it is a crash, you already started off the wrong way :p
19:52:33 <frosch123> you should have enabled core files in advance
19:53:27 <keoz> na it's "just" a gamescript, in which there is a storybook: alberth is unable to see the SB while I see it in its savegame
19:53:28 <frosch123> that is: you should make sure in advance, that whenever you may hit on a bug, you don't need to reproduct it
19:53:52 <frosch123> just blame the user :)
19:54:01 <keoz> I hoped for that answer :p
19:58:27 <andythenorth> how do I explain kindly to aantano that he’s missing the point
20:00:13 <keoz> andythenorth: well, you actually did, no ? It would be useless to repeat it endlessly :)
20:01:23 <keoz> you also can cut off the point by explaning him that he's free to hack it's FIRS version.
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20:06:37 <Supercheese> Whoah, it's been a commit storm
20:06:55 <frosch123> it's all the dutch's fault
20:07:07 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 25.7142857143
20:07:32 <andythenorth> such a crap suggestion, I don’t even know how to explain it again
20:07:41 <andythenorth> he just posts the same long paragraphs again and again
20:07:59 <andythenorth> a single Squid freighter could put an industry at max production for 2 year
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20:11:20 <andythenorth> isn’t the actual feature he wants ‘turn off news messages’ ?
20:17:23 <keoz> actually, that's the first thing I thought reading its first message. Who cares about some vehicles being deficitary ?
20:17:56 <keoz> in any case, with wide cargodist distribution, vehicle profit become still less significant
20:33:57 <andythenorth> partial compiles ftw
21:05:57 <andythenorth> probly I shouldn’t release another Horse today
21:06:33 <Pikka> when are we getting a stable? :D
21:07:11 <andythenorth> I added another tanker
21:07:17 <andythenorth> stole the idea from Pineapples
21:07:24 <andythenorth> horsetanker is good idea
21:07:32 <andythenorth> but also Edibles Tanker
21:07:48 <Pikka> "livestock" in milk tanks
21:07:49 <andythenorth> can’t go wrong with a horsetanker
21:08:07 <andythenorth> this one has alcohol, milk, water
21:08:40 <Pikka> separate tankers for potables?
21:09:18 <frosch123> is there an industry grf which adds horse milk?
21:09:26 <frosch123> maybe some egyptian economy?
21:09:55 <frosch123> quarries and pyramid construction places and such?
21:10:44 <andythenorth> why are my engines showing up as pax refittable?
21:10:48 <andythenorth> default cargo is probably PASS
21:10:55 <andythenorth> how do I unset the default cargo? :(
21:11:09 <frosch123> though i guess the stone/mummy ratio is hard to the deliveries
21:11:37 <frosch123> andythenorth: do you do refitting?
21:11:58 <frosch123> did you set the capacity property?
21:12:07 <frosch123> or did you only do callbacks?
21:12:09 <andythenorth> to be strict, why are my engines showing in the buy menu filter for pax?
21:12:14 <andythenorth> would be more accurate
21:12:31 <Pikka> link to code for the lazy, please
21:12:47 <frosch123> most likely you did not set the capacity property, resp. set it to a non-zero value
21:12:59 <andythenorth> would you like an nml or nfo flavour?
21:13:01 <frosch123> which would be required if the engines were refittable or something
21:13:10 <Pikka> either, but I found it :)
21:14:02 <andythenorth> so much faff with default capacities, default cargos, refit masks
21:14:48 <andythenorth> let’s see what the nfo says
21:17:02 <Pikka> Name: chaplin_switch_cargo_capacity what's this in aid of?
21:17:19 <andythenorth> won’t do anything on a loco
21:17:24 <andythenorth> it’s just templated code
21:17:46 <Pikka> it might do *something*
21:18:24 <frosch123> don't look at the switches, the issue is with properties
21:18:33 <andythenorth> happily returns our old friend wx8000 in all case
21:18:40 <andythenorth> always nice to see wx8000 here
21:19:03 <Pikka> why does it set 1D four times?
21:19:21 <andythenorth> but one or more of the articulated parts will have pax set for default
21:19:28 <andythenorth> 99% certain guess
21:19:39 <andythenorth> it quite likes 1D eh?
21:19:44 <andythenorth> that’s nmlc’s doing
21:19:53 <frosch123> settings the cargotype is not the issue
21:20:00 <frosch123> every vehicle has a cargo type
21:20:07 <frosch123> it's the capacity property that matters
21:20:16 <Pikka> you're not making an articulated vehicle out of all the same ID?
21:20:18 <andythenorth> it’s not the cargo type then :P
21:21:01 <frosch123> Pikka: it's easier to not use the same id
21:21:23 <andythenorth> cargo capacity 1
21:21:27 <andythenorth> on the lead slice
21:21:27 <frosch123> then you can zero all the properties for the purchase list and such
21:21:35 <andythenorth> there is a reason for that 1
21:21:39 <andythenorth> but I forget what it is
21:21:41 <frosch123> andythenorth: are you sure, you didn't want top make them refittable? :)
21:22:04 <frosch123> if you use cargo subtype for refitting, you need to set it to 1
21:22:23 <frosch123> you likely copied it from bandit or heqs
21:23:00 <andythenorth> I don’t know what bug I’d introduce by changing it :P
21:23:15 <Pikka> only one way to find out :D
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21:23:37 <andythenorth> “# provide default capacity (set as property) so lead vehicle has same refittability as trailing slices, this prevents an issue with auto-refit”
21:24:15 <frosch123> sounds road-vehicle-ish :)
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21:25:07 <andythenorth> nah road vehicles don’t have all this 3-part silliness
21:25:28 <andythenorth> it’s intended for wagons, I either need to special case it for engines, or ignore the bug
21:25:37 <Pikka> oh, you do those 3 part wagons
21:26:37 <Pikka> btw, I was reminded recently that using 3-part wagons tripled the rolling/air resistance for trains, do you counter that effect in hoss? ;) or do you not care since it affects all your vehicles equally?
21:27:10 <Pikka> it was an issue with the compartment coach in UKRS2 because the extra drag was quite noticable with the low-powered 19th c locos
21:27:27 <Joakim> Is there any specific version numbering system for OpenTTD? Or is that just incrementet after each release? (0.release version)
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21:28:25 <andythenorth> think I ignored air drag
21:29:10 <andythenorth> yeah can’t see that handled anywhere
21:29:31 <andythenorth> probably counters the stupidly high speeds in IH
21:30:50 <planetmaker> not sure what kind of reply you expect
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21:31:56 <andythenorth> will it be releasing?
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21:36:28 <planetmaker> frosch123, I wonder whether the "MiniIN" information should go from that page :)
21:36:30 <planetmaker> it's so old even I don't remember that :P
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21:37:11 <frosch123> possibly, but i won't do it. starting editing likely results in rewriting or deleting it completely
21:37:24 <frosch123> which is the case for all wiki pages, so i avoid them
21:37:48 <frosch123> that seems to be the case for wikis in general
21:37:59 <frosch123> if you know stuff, then they are terrible wrong
21:38:09 <frosch123> but if you do not know stuff, they help you nevertheless :)
21:42:46 <Joakim> planetmaker: Yeah, a bit! But how is it decided to go from like 1.3.3 to 1.4.0?
21:44:18 <frosch123> there are major versions 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5 and such
21:44:29 <frosch123> currently 1.5 is developed in parallel
21:44:58 <frosch123> 1.4.3 is a maintenance release for 1.4, independent of ongoing work for 1.5
21:46:30 <Joakim> i see, thanks! So after for example 1.3.3, and no new stuff is going in, the next step is to release the next stable version witch is 1.4?
21:46:37 <frosch123> so, there is no such change as 1.3.3->1.4.0
21:46:57 <frosch123> there was 1.3.0 at some point, and from there went 1.4.0 and 1.3.1 independent in parallel
21:47:23 <frosch123> at some point 1.3.x stops, and only 1.4 is done
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21:48:03 <frosch123> but e.g. 1.1.5 has been released after there has already been a beta for 1.2
21:49:47 <frosch123> they have nothing to do with each other :)
21:50:52 <Joakim> But i assume that 1.1.5 had some fixes for 1.1.x, and the fixes was merged into 1.2?
21:51:31 <frosch123> sure, but even though 1.1.5 was released after 1.2-beta1, it was a step backwards from a feature point of view
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21:53:21 <Joakim> I see, thanks! Im comparing a few open source projects for a school project, thought it would be fun to compare the different ways to do versioning :)
21:53:32 <frosch123> almost all software uses 3 numbers: x.y.z
21:54:01 <frosch123> z is for maintenance, y for new versions, x for non-technical reasons like marketing
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23:03:10 <Eddi|zuHause> uhm i have no idea wtf happened. i came home, computer was on a hung boot prompt, and any attempt of rebooting detected zero hard drives...
23:03:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i now shuffled around some disks to the secondary sata controller, and suddenly everything is back, even the ones on the primary controller
continue to next day ⏵
