IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-08-31
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05:47:26 <andythenorth> Rubidium: London?
05:50:15 <Rubidium> way too early for a sunday ;)
05:51:59 <Rubidium> mostly because I still need to wait a bit before breakfast is served
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07:45:23 <andythenorth_> Variable run costs...
07:45:45 <andythenorth_> Just dump them by 50% when speed is 0?
07:46:11 <Supercheese> I'd say by 75% (to 25% of full)
07:46:33 <Supercheese> Take your pick :)
07:47:44 <andythenorth_> Increase cost when running by a third, reduce cost when not running by two thirds
07:48:15 <andythenorth_> Bit concerned about levelling them too much though
07:48:48 <peter1138> don't bother with it
07:49:44 <andythenorth_> That's what I decided last time
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07:49:59 <andythenorth_> Pikka chops talked me into it
07:51:06 <peter1138> variable running costs penalizes people with efficient well running networks
07:51:46 <andythenorth_> Main case seems to be when stacking vehicles at primary pickup
07:51:48 <peter1138> especially if you actually increase costs
07:53:13 <andythenorth_> Maybe I leave them
07:54:48 <andythenorth_> Cut cost if not moved in last 30 days?
07:55:55 <andythenorth_> Also bad network
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07:56:56 <andythenorth_> Child is watching videos to earn in-game credits for free
07:57:32 <andythenorth_> Be cheaper to just buy them for him :(
07:59:33 <andythenorth_> I'm more inclined to cut costs when unladen, as many ship routes have no backload
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08:00:04 <andythenorth_> But they already have a bonus there by travelling faster unladen
08:01:32 <peter1138> Supercheese, you mentioned the R word
08:03:03 <andythenorth_> The R word should be auto-corrected
08:03:18 <andythenorth_> Game is about routes not realisms
08:03:36 <andythenorth_> Not even about efficiency either
08:03:37 <Rubidium> definitely... petel11thlee8, Lubidium, ...
08:04:16 <andythenorth_> We should use the F word instead
08:04:18 <Rubidium> though it looks like I time travelled a bit
08:04:40 <Rubidium> had breakfast on 31-aug-2016
08:05:23 * andythenorth_ runs out of f words
08:07:06 <Rubidium> not to forget... forum
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08:19:21 <Rubidium> I'm in a quite Albert-y neighbourhood
08:20:52 <Rubidium> Albert Lawn, Albert Memorial, Royal Albert Hall, Victoria and Albert museum, Prince Consort Road (only Prince Consort was ... Albert), ...
08:21:09 <Rubidium> so you must be really famous here ;)
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08:24:58 <andythenorth_> You should go to natural history museum
08:27:15 * andythenorth_ watches child recording voiceover to his own comic book on ipad. Definitel unable to create things, kids of today
08:27:25 <andythenorth_> I miss the old days
08:27:34 <andythenorth_> When we all watched TV
08:28:33 <Eddi|zuHause> <Rubidium> definitely... petel11thlee8, Lubidium, ... <-- wouldn't it rather be 11thilty8?
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08:29:54 <andythenorth_> No hg on this phone :(
08:30:22 <andythenorth_> Also no text editor, pixel tool, compilers or ttd :(
08:31:54 <LordAro> andythenorth_, clearly you should install them then ;)
08:32:23 <andythenorth_> Wonder if there's a shell
08:33:07 <LordAro> you can certainly get one if (assuming android) it's rooted
08:34:38 <andythenorth_> Guess if it's Android or iOS?
08:35:12 <Eddi|zuHause> Guess! Guess! Guess! Guess!
08:35:30 <LordAro> ...it's iOS, isn't it? :p
08:35:52 <LordAro> well, you can probably get something similar if you jailbreak it :p
08:47:40 <andythenorth_> Maybe I should add steam hoverzellepins to Squid
08:48:09 <andythenorth_> I don't have enough imagination to do invented vehicles :p
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08:51:08 <andythenorth_> Jet paddle steamer
08:51:27 <andythenorth_> Figfjyfxcbbmkiggf
08:52:57 <andythenorth_> Methane powered livestock ship - more load = faster
08:53:46 <andythenorth_> Raft towed by dolphins
08:55:51 <andythenorth_> (Like a packhorse, but whales)
09:00:22 <andythenorth_> If we had watertypes
09:00:30 <andythenorth_> We could do hoverways
09:00:42 <andythenorth_> So hovercraft could go on land
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09:21:23 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth_> I don't have enough imagination to do invented vehicles :p <- you going steampunk?
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09:59:12 <kalenz_> frosch123: About yesterday, I hope they'll get a fixed v2 version out, because there are other software using v2 which are affected and authorize builtins. Meanwhile you may want to consider replacing sprintf with snprintf :P
10:14:32 <kalenz_> yes, that should do the trick
10:16:22 <frosch123> wow, there are three bug reports about "SQCompiler::Error" on the first page
10:20:33 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26764 trunk/src/3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel/sqcompiler.cpp (2014-08-31 10:20:30 UTC)
10:20:34 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Buffer overrun in SQCompiler::Error. (kalenz)
10:30:26 <FUZxxl> I ship goods to a city and all of the sudden "xyz doesn't accept cargo anymore"
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11:00:24 <Alberth> indeed, highly annoying
11:11:25 <LordAro> clearly you should better position your docks :p
11:12:03 <LordAro> or, use a cheaty "floating" station part somewhere else in the city
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12:40:45 <krinn> hi guys, do openttd use some cache system for scripts?
12:41:42 <krinn> got openttd complain for a lang file... as i'm debugging something else, i have just remove all lang files to keep only english.txt but it keep complain for the missing ones !!?! (and i'm REALLY REALLY sure, they are missing now)
12:46:38 <krinn> oh funny, i got it : it complain for them when loading a savegame only
12:47:03 <krinn> openttd record lang files use in the savegame?
12:47:36 <Alberth> only the version, I think, maybe you are using a different language?
12:47:56 <krinn> start new game with the script : 0 complain
12:48:20 <krinn> as soon as i load a savegame (same version, except they were made with all lang in it) : complains for missing lang...
12:48:26 <Alberth> but tbh I don't know exactly what it saves with a script
12:48:44 <krinn> dbg: [script] catalan:292: warning: String name 'STR_OPT_48_0_41' does not exist in master file
12:49:11 <Alberth> yeah, when loading a savegame, it tries to reproduce the exact game state, including loading all exactly matching 3rd party stuff
12:49:35 <krinn> the problem is that if you alter the english.txt it also restore it as-is
12:49:44 <krinn> and it bug the out of hell as you have change it
12:50:23 <Alberth> unfortunately, I don't know the details of how language files work with scripts
12:50:39 <Alberth> quite likely, they are compiled somewhere along the way
12:51:11 <Alberth> no idea where that compiled version is kept :(
12:51:14 <krinn> but when you restore the game with a new english.txt (keeping all STR_name as they were but add new ones), it create a bug
12:52:42 <krinn> says you use english.txt with STR_TEST, STR_TEST2 save the game, change english.txt to add STR_TEST3 within them, now openttd load the savegame but is unable to find STR_TEST and STR_TEST2 value
12:53:35 <frosch123> krinn: the savegame contains all translations
12:53:59 <frosch123> in multiplayer only the server runs the script, the clients get the texts from the save
12:54:22 <frosch123> i guess in singleplayer they are loaded/saved nevertheless, but discarded later again
12:54:31 <krinn> ok, how can i get over this, tried already raise version by one, no change
12:54:44 <frosch123> it's gone if you resave the game, isn't it?
12:56:35 <krinn> complains for the lang files is gone
12:56:42 <krinn> but the "caching" of english.txt remain
12:56:53 <krinn> and the bug still is there
13:00:54 <frosch123> hmm, yes, it gives precedence over the saved texts instead of using the new ones
13:01:26 <krinn> it looks like it just discard the new english.txt as it doesn't match previous one
13:01:54 <krinn> and now that new english.txt is discard : any STR_ in it that are still present like in the old one are ignore : and you get buggy output so
13:02:49 <krinn> so because you have add STR_TEST3 : it discard STR_TEST and STR_TEST2 and of course output them gave bug now they are null
13:05:39 <frosch123> maybe it was intentional to save the strings to display something if the script is missing
13:06:01 <krinn> but if the script isn't missing?
13:06:36 <krinn> it's actually easy to reproduce frosch123 with any GS
13:06:37 <frosch123> currently it looks to me like the lang files are only used when starting a new game
13:06:49 <krinn> just add a new STR within their english.txt and reload a savegame
13:07:03 <frosch123> so, no matter if you change texts, translations or add texts, they will not be updated in any savegame
13:07:40 <krinn> yeah, but on new version of a script, it shouldn't do that, new version mean new message or update ones...
13:08:05 <frosch123> imho that has nothing to do with the version :p
13:08:29 <frosch123> either it always uses the texts on disk
13:08:52 <frosch123> which may make existing texts in town/goal/story guis invalid
13:09:11 <frosch123> or it uses the ones from the saves, breaking script updates
13:09:16 <krinn> imo: it should retake every STR found in savegame and then replace any STR_ that it has load with ones the script use + add new ones not found in savegame but added by the script
13:09:24 <frosch123> or it tries to merge them somehow, which is likely bollocks to even try
13:10:09 <krinn> anyway, doing like that, any new lang changes made to a script will broke all savegame made with previous version
13:10:16 <krinn> not the savegame per themselves, but the output
13:14:28 <krinn> ok test in my script : it do find the new key and the old one. So it seems it doesn't discard the english.txt at all
13:14:34 <krinn> but something bad is going on
13:15:10 <frosch123> yes, it registers the new keys to the script, but actually does not attach the strings to them :)
13:15:27 <frosch123> so the GSText.STR_BLA is known to the script, but not to the text rendering
13:15:51 <frosch123> while the old GSText.STR_REMOVED is not known the script, but still to the text rendering
13:16:31 <frosch123> hmm, looks like it even just reassigns the string ids
13:16:57 <frosch123> so, if you remove a string, all GSText.STR_xxx will be drawn as different strings than before :p
13:17:22 <krinn> no only that : i didn't remove any, i add one!
13:17:37 <frosch123> in the middle or at the end?
13:19:08 <frosch123> that's the same as removing one then
13:19:15 <frosch123> all strings after it are shifted
13:19:39 <krinn> so it would works if i push the new string at eof
13:19:53 <frosch123> the old strings will work
13:19:57 <frosch123> but you cannot render the new one
13:24:23 <krinn> you can see the yellow "Welcome" is missing in savagame screenshot while the GS report "found title"
13:25:45 <krinn> the most 2nd visible effect is the size of the storybook window that goes high because of invalid/missing output
13:27:01 <krinn> better want a flyspray open?
13:27:13 <krinn> (didn't yet test your patch, but will do if you want)
13:27:46 <frosch123> i'll just add it to the other string issues queue
13:28:03 <frosch123> i think above diff is not optimal in some caes
13:28:17 <frosch123> but fixing those cases requires some other fixes :p
13:28:39 <krinn> yep, your patch seems to fix issue by disabling multiplayer check
13:28:51 <krinn> meaning script in multiplayer will remain buggy
13:29:14 <frosch123> the server behaves the same as single player
13:29:23 <frosch123> and clients always take stuff from the server
13:29:46 <krinn> what is odd is that it just look like the key is fine but not its value
13:30:03 <krinn> and i cannot get its value with my GS, only if the key exist or not
13:30:38 <frosch123> when loading a gs, ottd creates a mapping of STR_xxx to the texts and assigns integer ids to them
13:30:48 <frosch123> then those integer ids are registered to the script
13:30:51 <krinn> but in both case, they key is there, and notice some other are working, note all keys are bad, but in my case the most visible one is just the "Welcome" title that is missing
13:31:02 <frosch123> then the savegame is loaded, which replaces the id->text mapping
13:31:28 <frosch123> so, the GSText.STR_XXX are registered before the savegame data takes effect
13:32:21 <krinn> ah ok got it: so STR_TEST got 1, the savegame have ids=1 and with changes STR_TEST may become 2 and savegame assign STR_(random) that is now the 1
13:33:54 <krinn> so adding new STR at eof should fix that, but it's kinda dirty for GS maker as it force us to add new stuff at eof always
13:34:21 <krinn> will try moving it at eof and see result, hold a sec
13:34:52 <frosch123> as said earlier, the script will know the next STR_xxx, but the GUI will display it as unknown string
13:34:59 <krinn> oh boy: that works when push to eof
13:35:34 <krinn> might avoid fix, if you add a warning to GS authors to only add new STR at eof
13:35:47 <frosch123> that doesn't help :p
13:36:09 <krinn> looks like it works for me
13:36:12 <frosch123> it only avoids one half of the issue
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13:36:40 <frosch123> yes, the OLD strings work, the NEWLY ADDED one does not
13:36:51 <krinn> new STR at eof == can only have an id any savegame cannot have
13:37:04 <krinn> let me try the new one output
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13:41:13 <krinn> ok at eof, new STR is working fine
13:41:22 <krinn> bug doesn't appears if put at eof
13:44:42 <krinn> ah ok doesn't works too :/
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14:13:38 <keoz> One more scripting question here :p Is it normal that when generating a map, a storybook page can't be created before the game started ? (by what I mean, after a GSController.Sleep(1) call)
14:14:02 <frosch123> it's rahter the other way around :)
14:14:26 <frosch123> modifying the game state (like creating a story book) requires to execute a "command"
14:14:43 <frosch123> a command always suspends the script and makes it sleep
14:15:01 <frosch123> during world generation a script gets some ticks to initialise, but it has no command actions there
14:15:03 <keoz> well, I have something strange here. I can generate it only after the GSController.Sleep(1) call :p
14:15:15 <frosch123> so command only take effect after world gen
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14:16:11 <frosch123> keoz: you do not try to create a company specific page or something?
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14:16:24 <frosch123> i don't know when the company is spawned
14:16:26 <keoz> No. General page (first param = 0)
14:17:12 <keoz> The point is: when I created the storybook in my code, and loaded a savegame, I had no problem to have the page
14:17:42 <keoz> I just notice that in world generation, it doesn't work in my initialization function, so I had to put it after the .Sleep()
14:18:21 <frosch123> i think zuu's scripts all have such a sleep before start
14:18:25 <frosch123> maybe he knows more about it
14:18:36 <keoz> Oh yes I'll have a look at its scripts.
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14:22:38 <keoz> Scripts can't issue DoCommands during world gen, by they when loading a savegame, before tick 1 ?
14:23:25 <krinn> because the storybook you see when loading a savegame doesn't comes from your GS, but from openttd
14:23:56 <krinn> so your script cannot create it because of the DoCommand but there is a storybook because openttd isn't a GS
14:24:31 <krinn> that's also why the storybook page have their content from previous savegame while your GS isn't even start
14:25:45 <keoz> Attention: when I say that I was able to create a storybook when loading a savegame, I mean a savegame in which I had not storybook before.
14:26:34 <krinn> and when you load a savegame the state to become "ready" is not the same as when creating a new map
14:27:11 <keoz> Ok. All of this explains the issue.
14:28:02 <keoz> that's exactly I was already searching for in your script :p
14:28:59 <krinn> some issue appears on rare conditions, this one was trigger by user using huge map, something i (and i think you) always never really try to speedup our trys
14:30:06 <keoz> Clearly. Also, an extended trial about all functionalities can only come from people playing long games with all those scripts.
14:31:08 <krinn> that's why i warn you about savegame timer, any GS that handle towns, should be aware of number of towns in huge map and critical time to save anything then
14:31:32 <Alberth> big maps, and long games are different things :)
14:32:01 <krinn> big maps + long games made any GS that handle town a big issue
14:33:13 <krinn> as a huge map with plenty town won't be an issue for them, but when time pass, it will show nasty effect the GS cannot handle saving all those datas or just couldn't even handle to do its monthly check within a month limit
14:34:03 <keoz> Now, my basic test game is an ongoing game of a 1024*1024 map with 280 towns.
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14:34:36 <keoz> Obviously, that isn't enough to test all possible conditions, but if the script runs fine on it, it should be fine in most cases :p
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14:36:19 <krinn> keoz : yeah, but te_lanus (and you'll see many) trigger it while playing a 2kx4k map!
14:36:21 <keoz> interesting: actually you wait for a first company to appear, as signal for creating the page ?
14:36:50 <krinn> keoz, yep, when openttd report 1 company presence, game is ready up for your GS
14:37:11 <krinn> while if the game have 0 company, why your GS would run anyway, there's no player :)
14:37:58 <krinn> so in a strange test case with 0 company (multiplayer?) the game wait
14:38:16 <keoz> And you don't pause the game during init.
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14:38:28 <krinn> and if one company is found, it mean openttd have endup all init and your ready to go (that's the problem with huge map, openttd woesn't ready, but the GS was starting)
14:39:35 <krinn> keoz, no pause, GS take extra time to init itself, and then wait until a company is showing telling the GS openttd is now ready and has finish creating/loading the huge map
14:40:57 <krinn> so looking if at least one company exists is how i fix that.
14:41:39 <keoz> for now, I'll just leave it after the GSController.Sleep(1) call
14:42:11 <krinn> i was having another minor issue, i have previous try fixing with a loop sleep (look at diff on the fix)
14:42:15 <keoz> I should also think about possibility of not pausing the game while initialization. That still comes from the old code I took
14:42:51 <krinn> the GSStoryPage.Show cannot work if openttd is not in a ready up state
14:43:22 <krinn> and that state is reach when openttd report one company exists
14:44:17 <krinn> so you can create the page... but Show will not works as long as openttd doesn't report any company : that's a good clue to see "when" openttd reach its working state for your GS
14:45:47 <krinn> i might suggest Zuu to add a company checks to his defaultgs : because if no company exists, no GS need to run
14:46:36 <keoz> Hell. now I have the storybook after world generation, but not after loading the savegame ...
14:48:32 <frosch123> spectators can also see global goals and stories, can't they?
14:48:51 <krinn> frosch123, can see any books
14:49:44 <frosch123> so you can also check them at the start of multiplayer, before starting a company
14:50:14 <krinn> frosch123, for what? empty storybook will remain empty if the GS have no players/company and only spectators
14:51:00 <frosch123> i guess that depends on what you display in the story book
14:51:09 <frosch123> i thought it should also be visible to spectators
14:53:00 <krinn> that's issue if specs join a game without any company create, but it will help them only see a GS is running
15:13:48 <keoz> hey I didn't know you can put emacs specific formatting instructions on top of source files
15:14:09 <keoz> your sources are definetely interesting :p
15:14:13 <frosch123> that's how you identify the rare emacs user
15:15:34 <krinn> that's not specific to emacs, i cannot really gave a link to that, but many editors feature it
15:16:18 <krinn> gedit and pluma handle it too
15:17:14 <krinn> and btw all sources are interesting
15:18:19 <andythenorth_> All my ideas are derivative :(
15:18:27 <frosch123> they can also be scary :)
15:18:29 <andythenorth_> Like steam hydrofoils
15:18:59 <andythenorth_> It's like steampunk, nothing original
15:19:07 <frosch123> andythenorth_: does iron horse have electric-powered steam engines?
15:19:29 <andythenorth_> Maybe it should
15:19:51 <andythenorth_> Road hog has catenary powered steam trams
15:19:52 <krinn> in awards, the best part of it should be DiscoverAwards, something you should see keoz
15:21:25 <krinn> lol frosch123 didn't knew something like that exists!
15:21:42 <frosch123> yup, that's the funny part of it :)
15:21:52 <krinn> and nobody wonder how the electricity is create :P
15:21:58 <frosch123> everyone sane would consider it a joke :p
15:21:59 <andythenorth_> Steam electric I knew
15:22:09 <andythenorth_> Electric ships...
15:22:51 <krinn> lmao and they put dynamo on wheels to gave light in the cars
15:23:12 <keoz> krinn: I probably will. When I'm finished here :p
15:23:59 <Alberth> frosch123: it was far ahead of its time "E-Dampf" :)
15:25:17 <krinn> that should take a hell lot of electricity to keep boiler hot!
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15:31:28 <krinn> gotta go, frosch123 do you have a todo for strings somewhere i could have an eyes at?
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15:33:17 <frosch123> 99 is quite messy and needs splitting
15:33:38 <frosch123> i started on one end and encountered more and more issues :p
15:33:44 <frosch123> so it grew into something weird
15:34:38 <keoz> oh, it's the fix you were speaking about in forum
15:34:59 <krinn> you mean counting right the params?
15:35:53 <andythenorth_> Electric steam would use two visial effects
15:36:01 <krinn> ok must go, see you guys
15:41:05 <keoz> no way to use a GSText to fill GSInfo.AddSetting.description ?
15:41:24 <frosch123> nope, quite complicated to do :)
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16:44:02 <krinn> i have diff in language file, didn't knew about the stringid that might be just the bug
16:44:52 <krinn> do openttd really need line 10 in english.txt match line 10 in somelang.txt?
16:45:14 <frosch123> no, english.txt defines the order
16:45:18 <frosch123> other langs do not matter
16:45:39 <krinn> having english.txt lines count > otherlang.txt is fine?
16:46:03 <krinn> + if (strings == NULL || id >= strings->cur_language->lines.Length()) return GetStringPtr(STR_UNDEFINED); <----
16:46:07 <frosch123> otherlang can be any shuffles subset of english.txt
16:46:29 <frosch123> otherlang falls back to english
16:46:41 <frosch123> at least that's how it should be :p
16:46:44 <frosch123> ofc it can be broken :p
16:47:45 <krinn> yeah, that's what i saw, "STR_OTTD : Openttd" and no need to put that in all lang file, and openttd will get the STR_OTTD from english.txt if it doesn't find it
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16:48:21 <krinn> but in savegame, with ids record and not the string itself, it might cause trouble no?
16:49:05 <frosch123> the savegame may have the STR_XXX names as well, but there will always be some case where it fails
16:49:30 <frosch123> e.g. if you change STR_FOO to use different parameters
16:49:37 <krinn> i wonder if ids are specific to lang also, and ids#3 for french.txt can be diff than ids#3 from spanish.txt
16:49:47 <frosch123> existing texts in the gui will then have non-matching parameters
17:00:15 <krinn> line109 of game_text.cpp while (i > 0 && (buffer[i - 1] == '\r' || buffer[i - 1] == '\n' || buffer[i - 1] == ' ')) i--;
17:00:15 <Pikka> I knew about electric steam trains
17:00:23 <krinn> why not check also == \t"?
17:00:51 <frosch123> \t are invalid in general
17:01:06 <frosch123> they are not valid within a string either
17:01:16 <andythenorth> electric pikkas?
17:01:17 <krinn> but it's a check for eol
17:01:57 <krinn> (from what i understand)
17:02:58 <Pikka> also, this gamescript idea seems like a good'un, the capture the towns mode.
17:03:44 <Pikka> I'll get cracking and maybe it'll be done by Christmas
17:05:39 <Pikka> the real question is, of course, what to call it.
17:10:25 <andythenorth> Pikka: King of the Castle of course
17:10:47 <Pikka> what if one is a Queen?
17:13:15 <frosch123> how about "Jerk of the Castle" then?
17:26:31 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
17:28:58 <andythenorth> Jerk Jerk Chicken
17:29:19 <andythenorth> or King of the Hill
17:29:45 <Pikka> it's good to be the king
17:30:19 <andythenorth> call it Stand by the James
17:31:34 <andythenorth> or The Lights of Baton Rouge Pass By
17:31:46 <andythenorth> which incidentally requires a trip to Amazon to get hold of the CD
17:40:04 <andythenorth> please send me the codes
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17:45:23 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26765 trunk/src/lang/welsh.txt (2014-08-31 17:45:19 UTC)
17:45:24 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:25 <DorpsGek> welsh - 47 changes by kazzie
17:49:58 <planetmaker> David Hofstadter explains them with mu muu muumumu (or very similar) :P
17:52:35 <Pikka> andythenorth, you even posted it twice. Doubly helpful.
17:53:00 <Alberth> :o must still read his work :)
17:57:27 <andythenorth> listen to the sound of mu
18:02:50 <Alberth> had no idea it was that long :)
18:04:10 <andythenorth> Pikka: any interest in totally inventing vehicles? Or does it end up being some kind of sub-steampunk wank?
18:04:32 <Pikka> like, totally inventing types of vehicle?
18:04:55 <andythenorth> within the types of ship, tram, etc :P
18:05:13 <andythenorth> you tried the Mars thing?
18:05:54 <Pikka> I suppose the problem is that most "realistic" things have been done... you can only make them work in TTD by ignoring the reasons they didn't work IRL.
18:06:10 <andythenorth> I think that’s probably fine
18:06:18 <andythenorth> imagine zellepins that work :P
18:06:22 <andythenorth> but that’s the easy one
18:06:28 <Pikka> zellepins are boring though
18:06:32 <andythenorth> trains and such not so easy to invent
18:07:22 <Pikka> I think I prefer the "realistic" but fictional angle, like 10cc
18:08:03 <andythenorth> that is where I’ve got to
18:08:12 <andythenorth> Dan started on some stuff for the Wasteland industry grf
18:08:18 <andythenorth> I didn’t code it yet mind
18:08:46 * Pikka enjoys a bit of Wasteland
18:09:04 <Pikka> well, Fallout, the game.
18:09:21 * andythenorth ponders a set of grfs based around Lego Castle theme
18:09:22 <Pikka> H&H tools factories in Pineapple Houses, for sure.
18:09:38 <planetmaker> well, there's a fallout-like game, wasteland ;). Actually fallout is like wasteland. And there's now wasteland2
18:09:46 <andythenorth> problem is it just all ends in steam punk
18:09:52 <andythenorth> not a good end point
18:10:14 <andythenorth> we got completely owned by SV yesterday, maybe we should try again
18:10:58 <Pikka> this whole king of the castle thing has the advantage that you don't have to try and guess what will make a good challenge when you set it up
18:11:05 <Pikka> unlike SV and the other one
18:11:17 <Alberth> I wondered whether preparing a few nice heightmaps would be useful for such occasions
18:12:45 <andythenorth> yeah, the set up on MP games is always onerous
18:13:03 <andythenorth> or even for single player, with SV or NCG I do a lot of ‘newgame’
18:13:59 <Alberth> yeah, openttd can be improved a lot there
18:15:04 <andythenorth> not sure how though
18:17:27 <Alberth> make a toyland newgrf?
18:17:43 <andythenorth> also lego, wooden trains etc
18:18:20 <Pikka> industry clustering, doesn't it
18:18:44 <Pikka> and not starting in 1920 :)
18:19:07 <andythenorth> also no bloody airport limit
18:19:10 <andythenorth> that has to be fixed
18:21:35 <Alberth> easy, make an airport with 0 noise, and set noise 'enabled'
18:23:27 <andythenorth> we should use that in MP
18:23:49 <planetmaker> hm, has ogfx+airport such parameter?
18:34:49 <andythenorth> also flat docks :P
18:36:32 <Alberth> maybe make a wiki page about it so we don't forget important things :)
18:38:26 <andythenorth> so where is server at?
18:49:18 <andythenorth> with FIRS heart of darkness
18:49:26 <andythenorth> SV is a bit limited
18:49:29 <andythenorth> not many secondaries
18:55:09 <andythenorth> Alberth: frosch123 et al - MP game?
18:55:14 <andythenorth> it’s a short one
19:02:45 <andythenorth> it’s on nightly server
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19:47:49 <Alberth> make it horrible, then in the last 2 months just give enough luck to succeed :p
19:53:41 <andythenorth> hover zellepins are making a lot of money
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21:00:33 <peter1138> prefer the original
21:01:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i love songs where there's tons of things to discover in background melodies and stuff
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