IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-08-30
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00:16:13 <nander> Is there a mod / newgrf which makes towns a lot bigger in area?
00:16:24 <nander> It could be really interesting in terms of gameplay
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06:16:43 * andythenorth tries to guard against overflowing ship speed
06:16:48 <andythenorth> not as easy as I thought :P
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07:04:01 <andythenorth> LSky`: I might have made your life harder for RedFISH
07:06:22 <LSky`> I going to dive into the rosters soon
07:06:46 <LSky`> what i have yet to figure out is where you assign sound/animations to the different ship classes
07:07:15 <LSky`> itd be a bit weird if I add some sailing ships, onyl to find out they have steam animations
07:17:34 <andythenorth> sound is just sound effect
07:18:21 <andythenorth> it’s a ‘special’ piece of python :)
07:18:38 <andythenorth> in ship_properties.pynml
07:18:41 <andythenorth> sound_effect: ${('SOUND_SHIP_HORN','SOUND_FERRY_HORN')[ship.default_cargo=='PASS']};
07:18:59 <andythenorth> and will have odd effects with sailing ships
07:19:44 <andythenorth> it could be done properly in future, I didn’t pay much attention to sounds yet
07:24:05 <andythenorth> animation stuff is in the ‘smoke2’ branch
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07:45:06 <abculatter_2> Is there a way to set a station to no longer accept/demand a specific cargo?
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07:53:22 <abculatter_2> wtb that feature
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08:04:38 <Supercheese> think there was A Patch for That™
08:05:35 <andythenorth> what’s it needed for?
08:05:44 <andythenorth> it doesn’t help you win a cargo goal
08:05:47 * andythenorth has become singular
08:06:06 <Supercheese> It's basically an anti-derp feature
08:06:30 <Supercheese> Sometimes you accidentally have a train load at a drop-off station
08:06:35 <andythenorth> your playful sandbox tinkering games are all now banned
08:06:36 <Supercheese> causing cargo to pile up there
08:06:49 <andythenorth> you must only play objective-orientated, target driven games with a single outcome
08:06:56 <andythenorth> no more playtime
08:07:21 <Supercheese> But the game is in C++, isn't that already object-oriented...? :P
08:07:46 <andythenorth> you must do useful work
08:07:52 <andythenorth> sandbox games have no purpose
08:08:01 <andythenorth> outcomes must be achieved
08:08:46 <andythenorth> efficiency to the fore!
08:09:11 * andythenorth considers deleting CHIPS
08:09:18 <andythenorth> station grfs have no purpose
08:11:38 <andythenorth> I am being a one-person channel again
08:11:40 <andythenorth> silly andythenorth
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09:02:32 <andythenorth> costs costs costs
09:04:45 <andythenorth> ship speed must be =< 79 mph
09:05:03 <andythenorth> and actual speed is calculated in multiple places
09:05:16 <andythenorth> which makes it quite easy to accidentally include a bug
09:05:25 <andythenorth> so I was going to cap it to max(speed, 79)
09:06:06 <andythenorth> should I warn of that during compile? Sometimes it’s valid to hit the cap, and the warnings will just become noise
09:08:45 <Alberth> can't you check how often you hit the boundary, or what each speed calculation result is?
09:09:57 <Alberth> if so you can verify all results are the same, or that you hit the boundary some expected number of times
09:10:47 <andythenorth> I could put a flag on ships that are expected to hit the boundary
09:11:02 <andythenorth> but it’s more ‘stuff’ and will probably get copied-pasted to unwanted places :)
09:11:13 <andythenorth> silent cap seems best
09:11:39 <andythenorth> we _could_ patch openttd :P
09:12:07 <Alberth> yeah, ships should fly too!
09:13:08 <andythenorth> the original limit looks related to RL max speed of hovercraft
09:13:36 <andythenorth> Squid contains a ‘cheating speeds’ parameter :P
09:13:44 <andythenorth> which exceeds the limit for hovercraft
09:14:09 <Alberth> the real world is buggy
09:14:31 <Alberth> people trust those numbers waay too much
09:15:04 * andythenorth wonders if the simulations have fewer bugs than RL
09:15:59 <andythenorth> Alberth: still playing your game? o_O
09:16:28 <Alberth> not today yet, but yesterday, yes
09:16:50 <Alberth> getting to the point where I can just spend as much money as I want :)
09:17:47 <Alberth> not yet, but some idiots put forests at an island that needs to be transported :p
09:18:16 <Alberth> don't have RV either, but perhaps it's too early :)
09:18:57 <Alberth> although it's weird having trains at 128km/h, and no RVs :)
09:20:53 <Alberth> 1908, have no ships either
09:22:06 <__ln__> ships are built of wood and the wood is still in the forest on the island. chicken and egg.
09:22:14 <Alberth> oh, you're completely correct, I am too sleepy
09:23:18 * andythenorth small panic over
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09:35:21 <Pikkaphone> as a man with a tin pot on his head once said
09:35:53 <andythenorth> anything new on the blag?
09:36:04 <andythenorth> I could look, but I don’t want to wear down the shoe leather
09:36:53 <Pikkaphone> should try and get a ship done tonight, I suppose
09:37:26 <andythenorth> Pikkaphone: has got a squid game nearby?
09:37:35 <andythenorth> I want someone to tell me which costs is wrong
09:37:45 <andythenorth> stands to reason
09:38:20 <Pikkaphone> so I have nothing nearby, unfortunately
09:38:44 <Pikkaphone> I can have a look when I get home though
09:38:50 <andythenorth> I suspect copy-paste amongst other naughties
09:39:08 <Pikkaphone> are variable running costs not a thing?
09:39:59 <andythenorth> could be, but cba
09:40:08 <andythenorth> you think they’re worth it?
09:40:19 <Pikkaphone> for trains I think so
09:40:33 <Pikkaphone> for ships, I don't know
09:40:43 <andythenorth> ships go faster unloaded
09:40:47 <andythenorth> little silly thing
09:40:55 <andythenorth> not realisms much
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09:41:53 <Pikkaphone> I don't know how realism variable running costs are for ships, either
09:42:17 <Pikkaphone> planes yes, trains and rvs maybe
09:44:03 <andythenorth> ships is costing more when loading
09:44:08 <andythenorth> due to steve and dore
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09:44:46 <Pikkaphone> although if it's waiting for cargo
09:44:59 <andythenorth> riding at anchor?
09:45:01 <Pikkaphone> Steve might as well stay in the pub
09:45:33 <andythenorth> is variables a thing I should add?
09:45:38 <andythenorth> I could be talked into it
09:45:46 <andythenorth> but I don’t miss it in my games
09:46:39 <Pikkaphone> they're more useful if you have higher running costs
09:47:14 <Pikkaphone> so it's probably a complete rebalance rather than just adding a variablity
09:52:33 * andythenorth should play a game
09:53:19 <Alberth> build me a few boats?
09:54:28 * andythenorth has to go shopping :P
09:54:55 <kalenz_> Hi, I have a source code related question: Is there a rationale for disabling the builtins functions of the script language?
09:58:57 <frosch123> that depends on the functions. scripts shall not lock-up, break or crash ottd, they shall not cause security issues, they shall work on all platforms
10:02:35 <andythenorth> it’s been a while since last MP game
10:02:40 <andythenorth> maybe we should play one
10:02:56 <frosch123> true, sounds like an idea :)
10:03:18 <Pikkaphone> I will crash, but I'll still play
10:03:21 <frosch123> not sure whether we manage to setup a server without pm though
10:04:12 <kalenz_> frosch123: ok, I was wondering for functions such as compilestring and {get,set}{root,const}table which do not seem like breaking ottd or security issues
10:05:16 <andythenorth> I am not free until tonight
10:05:26 <andythenorth> it usually takes that long to set up a game… :P
10:06:11 <andythenorth> can haz new GS? o_O
10:10:24 <Pikkaphone> what's a good goal?
10:10:54 <Pikkaphone> that's where I get stuck
10:12:36 <frosch123> challening to play a different play style
10:13:12 <frosch123> transporting stuff in unusual ways
10:13:18 <Alberth> deliver stuff by ship?
10:13:27 <Alberth> not sure you can actually check that :(
10:13:57 <frosch123> i forgot whether the cdist functions have already been committed
10:14:27 <frosch123> but there is a certain chance to check vehicles, whether they carry cargo, where they are from, where they are going to, and what cdist thinks about that
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11:37:18 <Pikka> someone's having fun with fireworks out there
11:40:48 <andythenorth> ho ho GS <- it tells jokes on random intervals?
11:42:17 <Pikka> also look, here's planetmaker to set up the server
11:42:47 <andythenorth> I should release some squid
11:43:19 <planetmaker> no guarantee how stable the connection is from the train, Pikka ;)
11:43:43 <Pikka> andythenorth, I'm looking at your costs ;)
11:43:59 <Pikka> a couple of anomnomnomalies spotted...
11:49:10 <Pikka> here's an airing cupboard, have fun
11:50:51 <andythenorth> some were fixed already, but I got board
11:59:22 <andythenorth> ships can only do 79mph
12:05:30 <Alberth> I don't think you'd want to fly faster than 126km/h over the water, it's not safe :)
12:06:34 <andythenorth> I could make the big paddle steamer more expensive
12:06:41 <andythenorth> but then you can’t afford it in early game
12:10:16 <Alberth> we'll talk again when there is a real pax service with those boats :p
12:11:17 <Alberth> game doesn't care about weird money-spending hobbies of wealthy tycoons :p
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12:54:00 <Pikka> so where's the server? openttdcoop?
12:54:17 <andythenorth> where’s the GS? o-O
12:54:20 * andythenorth should invent one
13:07:52 * Pikka will do a new version of av9.8, we can test that too inna multiplayer
13:08:11 <andythenorth> Pikka: I have no imagination for goals :( I can only think of cargo
13:08:15 <andythenorth> or connection goals
13:08:44 <andythenorth> or build an xyz thing in every town
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13:20:39 <frosch123> andythenorth: "no trains"? :p
13:20:55 <frosch123> only rv, tram, ship
13:21:00 <andythenorth> my four year old knows it as ‘the train game’
13:21:03 <frosch123> (no aircraft as well)
13:21:27 <andythenorth> frosch123: and a goal?
13:21:45 <andythenorth> you all hate RVs :P
13:22:02 <frosch123> i do not know the town gs good enough
13:22:27 <frosch123> so, i guess ncg again :p
13:22:52 <LordAro> eGRVTS + TTRS = easy (and surprisingly fun) RV game
13:23:10 <andythenorth> frosch123: SV = best
13:23:15 <frosch123> i don't like eithe egrvts nor ttrs :p
13:23:21 <frosch123> ogfx+rv is way better
13:23:30 <frosch123> and about any town set is prettier than ttrs
13:23:37 <andythenorth> you can be appalled by how ‘alpha’ road hog is
13:32:46 * andythenorth invents first past the post GS
13:32:58 <andythenorth> first company to achieve goals wins
13:33:10 <andythenorth> unfair if you have more players [shrug]
13:33:39 <andythenorth> goals are 3 random cargo challenges in a row, you get told the first one, then the second is revealed after completing first, etc
13:33:46 <andythenorth> messes with your ability to plan your network
13:34:15 <andythenorth> cargo challenges themselves are straightforward, just deliver x amount / year (or in total)
13:34:49 <Pikka> same cargo for all players?
13:35:38 <andythenorth> maybe has to be to a specific destination
13:36:08 <andythenorth> don’t think GS is better for over-thinking it :)
13:46:34 <andythenorth> Pikka: are you going render hover zellepins?
13:46:39 <andythenorth> the srn 4 is too small
13:46:44 <andythenorth> and the other thing I have is all wrong
13:47:06 <andythenorth> 70 pax, but no cabins :P
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14:02:55 * Pikka things squiddyships are too cheap, overall :D
14:12:15 <Pikka> new av9.8, now with rounder capacities
14:12:30 <Pikka> 33% fewer helicopters and 100% fewer supersonics
14:13:22 <Pikka> but 33% more small aircraft, including 66% more turboprops.
14:15:32 <Pikka> I should put in the reduce-costs parameter too
14:16:19 <ccfreak2k> I think I already made this joke.
14:32:57 <Pikka> town has noise concerns about airport
14:33:18 <Pikka> build airport further out from town, build bus and mail road connections to town centre, job done
14:40:24 <Alberth> town seems a little too concerned at times :)
14:57:15 <Pikka> andythenorth, so the sprites for the Pegwell SuperZeppelin aren't final?
14:57:25 <Pikka> lots of pixels and funnywake :)
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15:43:59 <andythenorth> Pikka: more expensive ships?
15:48:46 <andythenorth> Alberth: town airport controls are boring :(
15:49:26 <Alberth> I have that problem with air thingies in general
15:53:30 <andythenorth> there’s probably a config I could edit somewhere :P
15:53:50 <andythenorth> trying to ‘fix’ air routes in core game is boring
15:55:18 <Pikka> smaller aircraft are nice
15:56:11 <andythenorth> it’s a serious mistake
15:57:47 <andythenorth> Pikka: penguin hoverzellepin is just ogfx sprites
15:57:57 <andythenorth> not really right
16:01:19 <andythenorth> also I should expensiver the ships?
16:01:39 <Pikka> cop out and make it a parameter
16:06:38 <andythenorth> game has that already isn’t it
16:06:54 <andythenorth> when I looked today, I thought they are bit cheap
16:07:01 <andythenorth> maybe run cost should go up
16:07:13 <andythenorth> I didn’t test in a game though
16:07:25 <andythenorth> if buy cost is too high, it’s too boring in early game
16:14:31 <Pikka> who builds ships first thing though?
16:22:18 <andythenorth> andythenorth does
16:31:09 <andythenorth> variable buy costs? o_O
16:31:13 <andythenorth> first one is cheap…
16:35:56 <Alberth> wouldn't the current year be much easier than?
16:36:55 <andythenorth> or length of game
16:37:03 <andythenorth> I’m going to leave them alone for now
16:37:10 <andythenorth> where is server?
16:37:12 <Alberth> sounds like a good idea
16:37:35 <Alberth> make them relatively correct against each other
16:37:57 <Alberth> perhaps also against some other newgrfs, that's bonus
16:38:09 <Alberth> and otherwise people will use a basecost grf
16:38:42 <frosch123> yeah, triple running cost when attaching wagons of different grf
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16:44:08 <keoz> any way for a gamescript to know what GRF's are used ?
16:47:07 <andythenorth> “capture the castle” GS?
16:47:16 <andythenorth> try and win as many towns as possible
16:47:22 <andythenorth> each town has a win criteria
16:48:20 <andythenorth> play against other people, or against the clock
16:48:29 <planetmaker> that actually is a great idea indeed
16:48:34 <andythenorth> do a scenario version, run a league table
16:48:41 <andythenorth> wish we could change vehicle sets on scenarios :P
16:49:05 <Pikka> so where's the server? openttdcoop?
16:49:24 <andythenorth> anyone made a save?
16:49:35 <planetmaker> could try setting up one after I filled my fridge. That's something which needs doing about now :)
16:49:37 <andythenorth> where’s the channel?
16:49:46 <andythenorth> I have to bath two children and make them sleep
16:50:01 <frosch123> we want nightly for steam
16:50:04 <planetmaker> 'lastest' after nightly is run soonish
16:50:38 <planetmaker> we would join #openttdcoop.nightly for that. But need to go for 30 minutes now... be back then and will see what I can get running
16:52:22 <Pikka> heart of darkness of course
16:52:29 <andythenorth> where is Bob Industries Renewal
16:52:32 <frosch123> i am thinking about: train limit=0, sea-level=70%, yeti, av9, squid, ogfx+rv, heqs
16:52:50 <andythenorth> if yeti, we’d all better download now...
16:53:05 <frosch123> using yeti has the advantage that andy can contentrate on squid, instead of firs :p
16:53:16 <Pikka> we should trains though
16:53:29 <frosch123> ok, but still sea level 70
16:53:38 <frosch123> with short bridges, so trains are useless :p
16:53:45 <andythenorth> slow expensive bridges grf
16:53:50 <Pikka> it's boring without any trains
16:54:06 <Pikka> horse + 10cc? more to download :D
16:54:23 <andythenorth> I should make one with only narrow gauge + metro
16:54:28 <andythenorth> that would screw with things
16:54:55 <Pikka> termite is what irish people use to weld rails together
16:54:58 <frosch123> lets' try to de-mess my settings
16:55:11 <frosch123> they always end up with silly test scenarios
16:56:56 <Pikka> did V453000 update yeti, or can still nothing transport uranium?
16:57:53 <Pikka> does it have a "hazardous" wagon?
16:58:23 <andythenorth> yeti is so pretty
16:58:29 <andythenorth> just needs the rest of the game redrawing to suit
16:59:17 <andythenorth> horsey not transporting hazardous
16:59:22 <andythenorth> I can fix that and do another RC
16:59:32 <andythenorth> also why steel twice in yeti?
16:59:37 <frosch123> is it an issue if one cargo type is missing?
17:00:13 <andythenorth> also squid and such not transporting yeti
17:00:13 <Pikka> yeti should define one of the standard cargo classes for uranium, so that vehicle sets without special hazardous wagons can still transport it
17:00:31 <andythenorth> I do have a list of refits that is supposed to be all classes
17:00:40 <andythenorth> but I left out hazardous because it’s stupid on its own
17:00:46 <frosch123> no transports for yeti would be an issue :)
17:01:01 <frosch123> just ogfx+industries?
17:01:21 <andythenorth> tai has industries?
17:02:31 <andythenorth> sounds like a cologne
17:04:25 <Pikka> av9.8 would be able to transport yeti uranium
17:04:27 <frosch123> hmm, sv won't work with islands
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17:04:37 <frosch123> you need a proper target area
17:04:57 <andythenorth> I’ve done it with islands
17:05:05 <andythenorth> gets a bit intense on ships
17:05:13 <andythenorth> it’s actually easier with ships, less contention
17:05:24 <andythenorth> My last game was 8 industries or so
17:05:45 <andythenorth> also I am bored of seeing FIRS so ANother industry grf is good
17:05:53 <Pikka> make sure you set the cost reduction parameter in av9 :D
17:07:35 <andythenorth> also 90’ curves on or ships are borked
17:08:24 <kalenz_> So good thing builtins are deactivated
17:13:52 <frosch123> kalenz_: official squirrel development is about version 3
17:14:07 <frosch123> we use version 2 with quite a number of custom fixes meanwhile
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17:22:49 <andythenorth> V453000: so are you fixing YETI uranium class? o_O Or I should fix my grfs?
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17:25:25 <frosch123> termite disabled due to fatal error using invalid id
17:25:41 <frosch123> should i read the readme?
17:30:35 <Alberth> maybe it only works together with iron horse?
17:30:43 <frosch123> i am using iron horse
17:35:07 <frosch123> but it needs sorting out why termite is broken, or we need to remove it
17:35:10 <andythenorth> frosch123: dunno what the termite error is :O
17:35:54 <andythenorth> working for me in 1.4.2
17:35:58 <andythenorth> using termite 0.3
17:37:45 <frosch123> well, check the save :)
17:40:09 <andythenorth> frosch123: works for me
17:40:20 * andythenorth wonders if base set issue
17:40:50 <frosch123> base set issue? :p that would be a bug as well :)
17:41:29 * andythenorth adds missing grfs
17:41:33 <andythenorth> it’s a conflict with something
17:42:20 <andythenorth> frosch123: it’s a conflict with FRISS
17:42:31 <andythenorth> moving termite up disables FRISS
17:42:47 <andythenorth> VAST objects not on bananas btw
17:43:00 <frosch123> really, how did i get them then?
17:45:22 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26763 trunk/src/lang/korean.txt (2014-08-30 17:45:19 UTC)
17:45:23 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:24 <DorpsGek> korean - 41 changes by telk5093
17:47:50 <andythenorth> oh well, it’s bad to look at right now anyway
17:48:14 <frosch123> does it need adding?
17:49:59 <andythenorth> it’s playable, but ugly
17:50:26 <frosch123> ok, then i choose to not regenerate more maps :)
17:50:32 <frosch123> needed several tries to get some islands
17:57:42 <Alberth> quite a few islands even :)
18:00:01 <keoz> V453000: is it intended that all the houses' cargo production/acceptance appears as completely disabled when running YETI ?
18:01:25 <Sylf> I'm thinking using yeti in city growth game isn't the best idea
18:01:49 <keoz> Yeah that's what I was thinking :)
18:01:53 <Sylf> all yeti cargoes are not stuff accepted by houses etc
18:04:04 <keoz> Well it is possible if considering Workers Yards as the equivalent of houses, in regard to growth triggering.
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18:04:59 <Alberth> or cargo to industries of the town in general?
18:05:42 <keoz> That's already technically integrated. Category 4.
18:06:16 <Alberth> ok, just making a suggestion
18:07:07 <keoz> I were more thinking in merging workers/food/goods in only one cat.
18:07:27 <keoz> s/goods/building/materials/
18:08:02 <keoz> Anyway. Time for a beer.
18:08:09 <Sylf> yeti doesn't have "goods", so you know
18:08:49 <Alberth> yeti doesn't have beer, does it?
18:09:12 <Sylf> beer makes better workers
18:09:15 <keoz> V453000: there's an important feature request here.
18:12:08 <keoz> Alberth: actually i'm thinking that you're right about cargo to industries in general, since in any case, it doesn't matter whether cargos are delivered to houses or industries.
18:12:31 <keoz> Hence, workers arriving to a town industry are the same as pax arriving to towns.
18:12:57 <Alberth> yeti does have grain and fruit :)
18:14:00 <keoz> I count all cargos in any case in my script. Raw materials are requested by cities only when becoming really big.
18:14:24 <keoz> The idea is that you have a full growth only if you have some local industry
18:15:21 <Alberth> I only played a growth script a looong time ago
18:15:33 <Alberth> nowadays there are sooo many :)
18:15:42 <andythenorth> it’s a growth industry
18:15:57 <andythenorth> what challenges for capture the castle GS?
18:16:04 <andythenorth> - deliver x amount of cargo
18:16:11 <andythenorth> - pick up x amount of cargo?
18:16:13 <keoz> deliver fish in mountains
18:16:17 <andythenorth> - build industries?
18:16:22 <andythenorth> - build other stuff?
18:16:25 <andythenorth> - average rating?
18:16:45 <planetmaker> - have at least X industries of type Y
18:16:54 <planetmaker> (serviced with > 50% or so)
18:17:05 <Sylf> yeah, usually they're for those kind of challenges set by the scripts, useful for the young players of today who can't set their own goals
18:17:30 <planetmaker> - pickup pax / mail by each transport mode (rail/air/road/trains)
18:17:39 <keoz> Sylf: you're speaking about growth scripts ?
18:18:01 <Sylf> actually, any goal scripts
18:18:27 <keoz> 'cause a script doesn't necessarily has goals :)
18:18:28 <Alberth> Sylf: one of the fun parts is that you don't know what you have to do
18:18:47 <andythenorth> Sylf: expand the argument…?
18:18:49 <Alberth> it forces you to so things you normally never do
18:19:10 <andythenorth> this is the argument that people are losing the ability to be exploratory and playful and originally creative?
18:19:10 <Pikka> andy: I'm working on it. :P
18:19:26 <Pikka> @ what challenges for capture the castle GS?
18:21:03 <Sylf> andythenorth, pretty much. people losing their own creativity to set their own unique goals
18:22:04 <andythenorth> you see, I want to agree, because it’s fashionable to do so
18:22:08 <andythenorth> but I kind of don't
18:22:42 <andythenorth> even though I see plenty of evidence in the twenty-something’s I employ that they are a bit lost with simple win conditions
18:22:59 <Pikka> better than wimple sin conditions
18:23:02 <andythenorth> but I have played 10 years of ottd, and frankly the sandbox thing gets fricking old
18:23:09 <andythenorth> wimple sin is a different GS
18:23:14 <andythenorth> we’d need new sprites
18:23:31 <andythenorth> * a bit lost without simple win conditions
18:23:44 <Pikka> and I dunno, kids these days and their minecraft
18:23:50 <Pikka> they're doing alright in a sandbox
18:24:15 <andythenorth> kids these days and their Tiny Tower, Pocket Rocket Trains, How to Train Your Dragon, Disco Zoo, Dragons, more Dragons
18:24:18 <Alberth> generalizing is always useful to prove either side :)
18:24:26 <andythenorth> they’re all goal objected and ‘level up’ and crap
18:24:35 <andythenorth> but my four year old just ignores all that and sandboxes
18:24:42 <andythenorth> he doesn’t even make rational economic decisions :(
18:24:59 <Sylf> :) That's the power of 4 year old
18:25:00 <andythenorth> he’ll buy the least optimised thing
18:25:03 <andythenorth> inside I’m screaming
18:25:08 <andythenorth> and outside I’m screaming
18:25:09 <Sylf> somehow, they lose that creativity between that and 14
18:25:42 <Alberth> you have to work on keeping it
18:26:51 <Pikka> I think most people have always responded better to wimple sin conditions
18:27:18 <andythenorth> apparently there’s less of that about
18:27:18 <Alberth> instant positive feedback is always good
18:27:21 <andythenorth> due to social media
18:27:22 <Pikka> you see it in games more nowadays because you have more games being made by slick marketing types
18:27:33 <Pikka> rather than spotty herberts in their attic
18:27:34 <andythenorth> most iOS games are bollocks from what I can see
18:28:02 <Alberth> it sells, and everybody plays it for a week, and then moves on to the next game
18:28:21 <andythenorth> but mostly I’d rather have instructions and build something from a Lego box
18:28:39 <andythenorth> due to erm…relaxing
18:28:53 <andythenorth> I have enough creative personal goal setting all day long
18:28:58 <andythenorth> plus my wife has goals for me
18:29:21 <Pikka> not to mention lego is a really, really crap material for building complex mechanical machines
18:29:25 <Pikka> far too much give and flex
18:29:29 <andythenorth> part of the challenge...
18:29:41 <Pikka> my brother has a good model of the story bridge
18:29:43 <andythenorth> try build a crawler that doesn’t tear itself apart
18:29:49 <Pikka> but it doesn't do anything except look like the story bridge
18:32:29 <planetmaker> so... did we have a savegame?
18:44:50 <andythenorth> have to compress scale isn’t it
18:44:53 <andythenorth> not too much realisms
18:45:23 <Pikka> not to mention less expensive
19:58:21 <FUZxxl> I'd like to know if there is an efficient design for a change between right-hand traffic and left-hand traffic.
19:58:44 <FUZxxl> I need this because I made a construction mistake before and now a rather large line comes out in the wrong orientation.
19:59:33 <planetmaker> FUZxxl, just build a bridge for one direction over the other direction?
19:59:43 <planetmaker> and if you want it efficient, double that bridge
20:00:05 <FUZxxl> Yeah, that's a bit like what I did.
20:00:18 <FUZxxl> I made a diagonal rail for one side and a tunnel below it for the other side.
20:00:50 <Alberth> just practice more :)
20:05:25 <Alberth> don't worry too much about it, I have been playing openttd for 7 years, and still build junctions mostly at random until it works :)
20:06:12 <Alberth> of course it doesn't help I don't terraform, so every junction is unique just due to landscape :)
20:10:00 <planetmaker> on the contrary. That helps a lot, I think
20:10:13 <planetmaker> As only that way it teaches you to make the best of what's possible :)
20:10:31 <planetmaker> building identical on flat surfaces is boring after doing 3 times the same thing :)
20:10:41 <planetmaker> (but you agree there, for sure :) )
20:21:50 <FUZxxl> And here I am, stuck with OpenTTD 1.3.3 because of Debian.
20:23:25 <planetmaker> either get that debian package and install it. Or simply get the generic archive and unzip it into a dir of your choice
20:23:57 <FUZxxl> I have a slight dislike for introducing foreign packages into my system. They tend to cause trouble.
20:24:22 <planetmaker> well. The debian maintainer of that package is OpenTTD developer ;)
20:24:41 <planetmaker> or just use the generic download, unzip and enjoy. OpenTTD needs no install
20:35:06 <FUZxxl> btw, the map in the game menu
20:37:17 <Alberth> no, it's hand made, we have a competition to make a new map
20:37:35 <FUZxxl> How many maps are there?
20:38:00 <planetmaker> only one. But millions of random ones
20:38:33 <FUZxxl> And I guess the game selects a different part of the map every time it launches?
20:38:41 <planetmaker> no, always the same
20:39:00 <planetmaker> the upper left corner is fixed to the upper left corner of your window
20:39:22 <planetmaker> you're talking about the title screen, yes?
20:39:38 <planetmaker> and 1.3.x has different than 1.4.x
20:39:43 <planetmaker> we change every year
20:40:09 <planetmaker> or round about. Depends whether I remember in a timely manner :P
20:42:31 <FUZxxl> But I suck at playing it.
20:42:45 <FUZxxl> 30 years in, I try to expand to new towns.
20:42:54 <FUZxxl> But some of them won't let me build stations.
20:43:01 <planetmaker> depends on how you define 'success'. A game is successful, if you enjoy your time playing it :)
20:43:16 <planetmaker> and yeah, towns remember when you cut down trees
20:43:22 <planetmaker> even when it's for tracks or stations
20:45:30 <FUZxxl> I usually go there and plant a bunch of new trees but that's often quite cumbersome.
20:45:49 <FUZxxl> BTW, does plating trees where trees already exist raise your approval raitings?
20:47:03 <planetmaker> tactics which works: first delete all trees in a towns vicinity. Then plant them all anew :P
20:47:45 * Alberth usually moves to a different town that wants my services :)
20:48:09 <Alberth> but I concentrate on industries mostly
20:48:39 <glx> planetmaker: yeah your rating can't drop under the lower level anyway :)
20:53:42 <FUZxxl> planetmaker: yepp, that works.
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21:13:22 <Supercheese> has the string been changed? It's a really minor thing, but it should be "beginning" rather than "begin"
21:13:55 <Supercheese> My initial suggestion was made late at night, frosch rightly corrected my first suggestion
21:14:43 <Supercheese> Yeah I see no changes as of yet
21:15:05 <Supercheese> it is, of course, hardly a game-breaking issue :P
21:15:16 <planetmaker> I read your comment as 'oh, frosch is right'
21:15:44 <Supercheese> Yes, "frosch is right, it should be changed to "front" or "beginning", but a change is still required"
21:16:02 <Supercheese> "...wrapping around at the begin"
21:16:06 <Supercheese> is clearly a typo
21:17:35 <frosch123> it's programmer's english :)
21:17:52 <frosch123> containers always have a begni() and a end() method :)
21:21:42 <Rubidium> why would it be "beginning" and "end", and thus not "ending"?
21:23:25 <Rubidium> otherwise... we could change begin with rend to be even more "right"
21:23:45 <__ln__> hmm, so "begin" is not a noun at all..? container function naming is evil then. blame bjarne?
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21:41:12 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: functions are (usually) actions, so they should be a verb?
21:42:02 <Eddi|zuHause> loads of functions have the name "do_x"
21:42:30 <Eddi|zuHause> also it's "sort" and not "sorting"
21:44:15 <Eddi|zuHause> what to do with GreyFurryThingThatMakesMiauEvenThoughItJustGotFood?
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