IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-08-13
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10:09:20 <keoz> Squirrel/GS question: How can I check for the existence of a table slot in an if statement (thus avoiding to try to access to an inexistent element ?)
10:13:39 <planetmaker> No idea about squirrel... but can you check type or size?
10:34:44 <planetmaker> well, you probably need not worry much about existing savegames. They'll be continued with the old version of the script, thus no problem. Hence, for new ones, you can simply use a new data format, if you need it
10:39:00 <keoz> mmh actually I just found it: rawin(key)
10:40:14 <keoz> But basically yes, it's not necessary.
10:41:32 <LadyHawk> [13/8][02:45:16] -NickServ- This hostname matches an entry on the access list of nickname LadyHawk. You
10:41:32 <LadyHawk> [13/8][02:45:16] -NickServ- have been automatically identified.
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11:59:31 <keoz> mmh... There is no possible context, where a city might be deleted in game, apart from the scenario editor ?
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12:11:12 <planetmaker> that's right, KenjiE20
12:21:36 <keoz> O, planetmaker. That's better for my GS :p
12:22:44 <keoz> Mmh. Actually, I'm telling myself, it'd be nice, also handling the case of deleting a city in scenario editor.
12:24:38 <keoz> Mmh. But there is no GSEvent for that. But actually, doesn't matter. Deleted city's saved data will just no be used next time.
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13:47:45 <planetmaker> keoz, you really have found your "peace of code"? ;)
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14:49:28 <MTsPony> Is there a way to load static grfs before the normal ones, rather then after?
14:52:13 <planetmaker> I would have thought that they're loaded first. But I know no way to influence the ordering
14:54:51 <MTsPony> perhaps place [static-grf] entry before the current active section?
14:55:04 <MTsPony> Or did nobody ever think about ordering grf
14:55:17 <MTsPony> when it comes to statics :p
14:55:42 <planetmaker> try it and see :)
14:55:52 <planetmaker> the latter is an absolutely possible scenario
14:56:10 <planetmaker> given that static newgrfs are not accessible even from ingame (where they damn well should be configurable)
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14:57:33 <MTsPony> yes they are accesible from ingame.
14:57:57 <MTsPony> i can even change the order of the loaded static grf in game
14:58:29 <MTsPony> they just have a different color in the list
15:00:30 <LordAro> planetmaker: well you know what people say to that... ;)
15:09:21 <Rubidium> if you are able to move static NewGRFs before non-static ones, then that's a bug. If static NewGRFs can be loaded before non-static NewGRFs, then that is a bug as well
15:09:35 <Rubidium> since either case potentially breaks multiplayer
15:17:07 <planetmaker> hm... true. They must be loaded or they could be checked-for
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18:19:12 <andythenorth> so I have two of these to donate to ottd devs (assuming anyone actually wants one)
18:27:44 <LordAro> "*This system can run the last version of OS X 10.7 "Lion" if upgraded to at least 2 GB of RAM. It is not supported booting into 64-bit mode when running Mac OS X 10.6 "Snow Leopard." It does not support "OpenCL" either. Please also note that OS X Lion is not capable of running Mac OS X apps originally written for the PowerPC processor as it does not support the "Rosetta" environment."
18:28:11 <LordAro> not that i know macs at all
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18:31:35 <andythenorth> stuck on OS 10.7.5
18:31:40 <andythenorth> won’t go to Mavericks (10.9)
18:45:01 <planetmaker> Well... Not sure how much I'll actually get to developement on OSX in the future. But I sure could use it as test machine for the semi-new OSXe. Not sure how long my 10.6 incarnation will still survive
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18:51:51 <andythenorth> isn’t your Mac newer than that anyway? :o
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18:55:23 <planetmaker> it's about the same
18:55:39 <planetmaker> and I'm fearing for about a year that it'll die due to overheat
18:56:35 <planetmaker> probably mine is slightly older even
18:56:48 <planetmaker> it originally shipped with 10.4
18:58:13 <planetmaker> I even upgraded it from 1MByte RAM to 2
19:01:03 <andythenorth> ideally there would be something running mavericks
19:01:09 <andythenorth> but I can’t afford to give those away :P
19:01:28 <andythenorth> they’re still worth 20%-50% of purchase price, used
19:01:52 <planetmaker> yeah, they keep value quite nicely
19:02:05 <planetmaker> also, it's not like they don't work anymore :)
19:02:52 <andythenorth> for some definitions of ‘work’ :)
19:03:38 <planetmaker> And yes, it still works. And damn well, please works till at least end of this month. I need it during travel
19:04:03 <planetmaker> It's the device which knows all the presentations I gave in the last near-decade :P
19:05:09 <Rubidium> I hope there's another device that knows that as well ;)
19:07:01 <planetmaker> it's mirrored to my desktop. But they mostly would be useless without a mac
19:08:46 <andythenorth> pays your money, takes your choice
19:08:49 <planetmaker> file format reasons, yes
19:09:56 * andythenorth looks for something interesting on internet
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19:20:14 <andythenorth> time duly wasted ;)
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19:31:51 <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r26729 /trunk/src (4 files in 2 dirs) (2014-08-13 19:31:45 UTC)
19:31:52 <DorpsGek> -Feature: Warn about missing industries after generating a map.
19:33:34 <lastmikoi> Hello there, I'm having some issues with NewGRFs and a dedicated server setup under Centos6 (OpenTTD 1.4.1) : I tried installing with the built-in "content" command, then tried importing my OpenTTD client settings, but neither of theses methods allowed me to host a game with my installed NewGRF /active/.
19:35:09 <planetmaker> lastmikoi, you need on the server the exact same versions of the NewGRF as you use in the map which you try to load
19:35:28 <Alberth> openttd client is a windows machine, and uses \ in its paths instead of the / thingies in unix?
19:35:58 <lastmikoi> I ran my openttd with "-D -d grf=1 -d misc=2" in order to troubleshoot this problem, and it's successfully scanning NewGRFs, without activating them (Even if I'm using my openttd.conf with proper [newgrf] settings)
19:35:58 <planetmaker> If you used any NewGRF which is not found in our online content, that won't succeed. Also it won't download all versions of every content but only the newest version thereof
19:36:37 <lastmikoi> planetmaker: Indeed, but even if I'm generating a new map, the game just starts without any mods
19:37:04 <planetmaker> despite your server's openttd.cfg listing some NewGRFs in its [newgrf] section?
19:37:20 <lastmikoi> It only list them when I'm importing my configuration
19:37:21 <planetmaker> Did you try to specify the used cfg explicitly via command line parameter -c
19:37:37 <planetmaker> what do you mean with "importing your configuration"?
19:37:48 <lastmikoi> but the -misc=2 loglevel shows about successfully scanning NewGRFs
19:38:17 <lastmikoi> Wait a second, I'm about to feel really dumb if Alberth is right.
19:38:25 <planetmaker> close down the server. Modify or rewrite your cfg on the server then. Then restart the server
19:38:59 <planetmaker> The server will rewrite its cfg upon exit with the currently used cfg. If that's w/o NewGRF and you changed the cfg on the disk in between, that will be overwritten
19:39:25 <lastmikoi> Yeah I noticed that.
19:41:10 <lastmikoi> mhh, no, even if I switch '\' to '/' in the [newgrf] section, the server is not taking that into account.
19:41:46 <lastmikoi> and closes then empties the [newgrf] section like nothing has been there
19:42:18 <planetmaker> That means the files aren't found
19:42:39 <planetmaker> Are you sure you used the newest version as available from our online content?
19:42:58 <planetmaker> and did you really download them successfully? Are they in the content_download/newgrf dir?
19:43:14 <lastmikoi> dbg: [misc] Found tar '/home/openttd/.openttd/content_download/newgrf/CHIPS_Station_Set-1.4.0.tar' with 4 new files
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19:43:56 <lastmikoi> I'll pastebin my server output, to simplify.
19:44:23 <planetmaker> that indicates that it found CHIPS 1.4 indeed
19:44:38 <planetmaker> not that it's one NewGRF being used, though
19:45:25 <lastmikoi> Yup, so I modified the [newgrf] section hoping it would /use/ my downloaded newgrfs, without success
19:46:12 <planetmaker> well, what did your [newgrf] section look like?
19:47:41 <planetmaker> hm... that's outdated, I see :)
19:48:39 <planetmaker> 414E0101|5D665C64693A438E3046C22666F46E08|fish_ship_set-0.9.2/fish.grf =
19:48:49 <planetmaker> ^ maybe that format, too. Dunno when we changed the format :)
19:49:29 <lastmikoi> Yeah that's why I thought importing the config section from my windows client was a viable Idea
19:49:59 <lastmikoi> (same version, supposedly same format)
19:50:08 <planetmaker> ok, so we changed the config file format after OpenTTD 1.4. Same version, same format, that's right
19:50:13 <planetmaker> except path delimiter
19:50:22 <lastmikoi> yup, but that didn't worked either
19:52:03 <lastmikoi> Okay, now it's working. I must have f*ed something earlier.
19:52:19 <lastmikoi> so Alberth was right
19:52:36 <planetmaker> he is often right ;)
19:53:39 <Alberth> I just watched and learned from master glx :p
19:54:09 <lastmikoi> perfect, I'll just need to fix this "conflicting trainset grf found" issue and I'll be ready to play, thanks to both of you ;)
19:55:30 <Alberth> planetmaker: I think there are more map settings that are not independent, in my view at least the industry density is one
19:57:55 <planetmaker> Alberth, in what way independent? You mean in order to ensure that the map will be actually playable in terms of towns / all industries /... ?
19:58:55 <Alberth> hmm, depends perhaps on how bad you think it is to have too many industries :)
20:00:25 <Alberth> I wonder what happens with dense industries and 80% water :p
20:02:13 <planetmaker> the same as with dense industries and 10% water: most land covered by industries :P
20:03:08 <planetmaker> oh... and MAAANY oil rigs (if time and climate allows)
20:03:27 <planetmaker> happy shipping times ahead. Just missing: "disaster: oil spill"
20:05:08 <Alberth> mars height map in arctic, it's all above snow level, except this area
20:05:48 <planetmaker> yeah, the large Southern impact basin is really low ;)
20:06:02 <planetmaker> and yes, that looks familiar
20:06:18 <Alberth> you made it, didn't you? :)
20:06:43 <planetmaker> well... I adopted it for OpenTTD. It's an actual elevation model
20:07:13 <planetmaker> The readme knows better where I grabbed it on some nasa site than I recall :)
20:07:28 <Alberth> I was talking about Mars ;)
20:10:49 <planetmaker> Mars' "problem" is its gigantic elevation range, compared to its size in relation to other solar system bodies
20:11:10 <planetmaker> Mountains 20km high, depressions 8km deep. That's about twice the topographic difference to Earth
20:11:48 <planetmaker> We should flood it at 0 :)
20:11:57 <frosch123> what's the relative height you are measing them too?
20:11:59 <planetmaker> Would make for two very distinct hemispheres
20:12:12 <frosch123> what's your water level? :p
20:12:34 <planetmaker> dunno :) mean height?
20:13:01 <frosch123> well, you say -8 to +12
20:13:05 <planetmaker> Looking at the valles marineris, it seems to be somewhat below mean height, somewhere in the darker turquoise range
20:13:20 <planetmaker> those numbers are deviation from mean
20:13:23 <frosch123> so 0 is mean value?
20:13:36 <planetmaker> yeah, 0 is the reference ellipsoid
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