IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-03-11
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09:39:26 <supermop> my fiancee wants me to learn python
09:40:05 <andythenorth> soon she will be your wife
09:40:08 <andythenorth> then you will have no choice
09:40:16 <supermop> python or my fiancee
09:40:40 <andythenorth> 'my fiancee' wants and 'my wife wants' are very different statements
09:40:59 * andythenorth has fallen into a theory hole
09:41:04 <andythenorth> small world networks again
09:41:13 <supermop> too bad she cant just write the python for me
09:41:32 <supermop> but she has other things to develop
09:42:00 <andythenorth> just learn python then :)
09:43:21 <supermop> also pondering dropping 1000aud on a revit class here
09:43:39 <andythenorth> but you could learn python there :P
09:44:10 <supermop> if i was using revt at work i could learn it faster and for free
09:44:18 <supermop> but its a chicken and egg problem
09:44:24 <supermop> hmm thanks andythenorth
09:44:54 <andythenorth> python import this
09:46:13 <andythenorth> fonsinchen: not sure I can explain it properly, but for freight, I don't think the goal is to connect all nodes to a single network for each cargo
09:46:16 <supermop> how are things back up on the right side of the globe?
09:46:34 <andythenorth> supermop: not as warm as they were yesterday
09:48:34 <planetmaker> yeh... no sun today. Just haze
09:49:07 <V453000> though I supopse not for long if shit is @pm place
09:49:30 <planetmaker> Well, as said, it's hazy. Sun might come again. No rain or so
09:49:51 <V453000> best forecast: sit on IRC with nerds and care less about weather
09:51:21 <supermop> andythenorth: could python make art prints for me?
09:51:29 <supermop> that's whaat i am shooting for
09:51:45 <planetmaker> supermop, that depends on how much an art you make it to programme python :)
09:51:46 <andythenorth> ^ ok, we've seen it before :P
09:53:56 <planetmaker> with pillow you certainly have an extensive graphics library available for python
09:54:49 <supermop> i am currently messing around with pen and paper rules: look up a huge prime number, then go through grid using my rules: if digit is x then draw z unless neighboring digit is y
09:55:05 <supermop> but its pretty basic
09:55:20 <supermop> actually program might make more interesting stuff
09:58:59 <supermop> so what are you guys working on?
10:08:10 <andythenorth> V453000: that is a good grf name...
10:08:22 <andythenorth> all grfs are now animal-named :P
10:11:33 <planetmaker> bananas' spiritual predecessor was giraffe ;)
10:11:54 <V453000> bananas ate giraffe sounds seriously awkward
10:13:41 <V453000> about as bad name as squid ate fish or nuts ate purr :P
10:16:19 <V453000> all grf names are misleading we should use grf<ID> only
10:17:03 <V453000> makes about as much sense as Dutch train set
10:18:13 <V453000> people then imply it belongs to some country instead of focusing on how the vehicles work
10:18:25 <V453000> problem is that authors are equally stupid? :D
10:21:37 <planetmaker> the DutchTS is not that bad really. But it seems to go in a one-set-fits-all-trains set. Which is a bit sad
10:21:49 <planetmaker> instead of tweaking the set more towards actual gameplay
10:24:27 <V453000> just looking at 20? various pax wagons without actual use is awesome sight
10:24:47 <V453000> not even mentioning Any thought given to train stats
10:25:05 <andythenorth> just use reality
10:25:10 <andythenorth> reality is the best game evar
10:25:30 <andythenorth> V453000: I don't know why you expect model trains to contain gameplay?
10:26:08 <planetmaker> V453000, 20 wagons might still make sense, if it's just for looks. could be done as refit, though
10:26:20 <planetmaker> 20 engines... well. Not with near-similar stats really
10:26:30 <planetmaker> could be done with refit, too :)
10:27:10 <V453000> I mean, the wagons could be coded as one differentiated by vehicle_type_id, eventually even position_in_consist(_from_end) or even refit to manually control it
10:27:23 <V453000> they dont even fit to every vehicle and nowhere is written which to which
10:27:41 <planetmaker> urgs. I really hate if I can't combine wagons and engines as I see fit
10:28:37 <V453000> OR it has to be clearly shown which fits where
10:28:50 <planetmaker> yes, very clearly
10:28:57 <planetmaker> and even then I might be annoyed
10:29:17 <planetmaker> as to: why can't I? I want to play and that combination will be fun for me
10:29:35 <andythenorth> because the author had a design in mind
10:29:36 <planetmaker> but that runs into balancing issues :)
10:29:48 <andythenorth> you are supposed to be the way the author wants you to be
10:29:51 <V453000> yeah, sometimes it is necessary
10:29:54 <andythenorth> it's a BDSM thing :P
10:30:03 <planetmaker> too many sets are ^ like that, yes
10:30:08 <V453000> e.g. it would be stupid to allow 45 capacity wagons to run with maglev while they are supposed to be for ships
10:30:16 <planetmaker> graphically nice. But forcing me to do one thing only
10:30:38 <planetmaker> one thing which I don't enjoy, replaying some history which this game is not suitable to replay exactly anyway
10:30:58 <planetmaker> V453000, nooooooo! ;)
10:31:08 <planetmaker> I want that to mimic a ferry! :P
10:31:17 <V453000> there is ferry on wetrail for that :D
10:31:42 <planetmaker> And I go for lunch as compensation :)
10:31:47 <V453000> problem is, in fact it would allow you to do "less" things ... because automatically best train + best wagon == 1 combination
10:33:24 <V453000> BUT what I am considering to do is to have 2 wagons only, nothing else ... the problem I run into is that I would want to decide its look by a switch - and that switch would lead to all wagons in NUTS right now .... which would probably run into "too many switch results" thingy
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11:13:44 <andythenorth> V453000: 2 wagons makes sene
11:13:50 <andythenorth> what are they? Fast and slow?
11:14:12 <V453000> large 8/8 and articulated 2x 4/8
11:15:08 <andythenorth> in nfo the switches thing would be a non-issue :P
11:18:23 <planetmaker> andythenorth, the number of switches is a grf-spec limitation really
11:19:37 <V453000> is it number of switches or switch results?
11:19:48 <planetmaker> that's directly related
11:20:03 <planetmaker> also spritesets need to get a unique number
11:20:24 <planetmaker> numbers can be re-used though
11:21:25 <planetmaker> simplified: one vehilce with 3 different looks uses 3 IDs
11:21:26 <V453000> well it would be awesome but I guess I would run into way too many technical limitations
11:21:36 <planetmaker> 10 vehicles with 3 different looks use also 3 IDs
11:22:04 <planetmaker> one vehicle with 30 different looks uses more than 3 IDs. But might use less than 30, depending on how it's coded
11:22:27 <planetmaker> IDs in terms of switchIDs
11:22:34 <planetmaker> there can be 255 switchIDs at most
11:22:51 <V453000> brb in an hour, lunch :)
11:22:53 <andythenorth> and you can't nest like you can in nfo
11:23:26 <planetmaker> andythenorth, nml does that. To some extent. Maybe you can help to make it more intelligent, if need be
11:23:53 <planetmaker> but I don't think it's as stupid as you assume
11:24:23 <planetmaker> in NML you just write a few lines of NML and you would need hundrets of lines of NFO to express the same complexity
11:25:49 <planetmaker> I'm sure there was a reason we don't have extended byte IDs for action2
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12:26:15 <juzza1> why do i get "Error with the configuration file... ...ignoring invalid NewGRF 'ogfx-biggui.grf': unsafe for static use" when trying to set it as a static newgrf? what triggers that error?
12:29:39 <juzza1> used to work recently... currently im using the latest trunk/nightlies for both ottd and biggui
12:46:18 <andythenorth> so has anyone finished this newgrf for me?
12:47:04 <planetmaker> hm... maybe I changed something which triggers that, juzza1 and you now have a new(er) version?
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12:51:59 <juzza1> i'll check if i still have the working version installed on laptop
12:56:21 <planetmaker> I'll be much interested in the results
13:02:45 <juzza1> ok, works with 4996, but not with 5026 (or higher)
13:05:16 <planetmaker> juzza1: can you create an issue with ogfx+biggui describing the issue? I'll otherwise likely forget
13:05:21 <planetmaker> but that should be fixed imho
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13:53:54 <LordAro> :o a TrueBrain appeared on the forums
13:57:02 <Eddi|zuHause> HOW DARE HE! HE SHOULD GET BACK INTO HIS CAVE AND WATCH THE SERVERS RUN!!
14:07:03 <TrueBrain> I am sorry .. I do apoligise!
14:09:58 <TrueBrain> what the worst part is .. I was helpful
14:12:04 <TrueBrain> burns like a banana!
14:12:14 <planetmaker> sometimes one has to make a sacrifice
14:12:25 <planetmaker> I prefer to sacrify others :P
14:12:33 <V453000> "for the greater good of people being idiots"
14:13:33 <planetmaker> I knew you would like it :P
14:14:35 <V453000> if someone isnt able to decide a name of their banana, it is quite idiotic :P
14:14:48 <TrueBrain> people can change their mind :)
14:15:10 <TrueBrain> calling stuff "fatal errors" because you worked with PHP for 8 years is .. euh .. well .. I hate repeating you :D:D:D *trolls*
14:17:54 <Xaroth|Work> 8 years in PHP and he still hasn't found out it sucks? :P
14:18:06 <TrueBrain> I work with PHP for years now; I know damn well it sucks
14:18:16 <TrueBrain> lets not make "fatal errors" by jumping to silly conclusions here :D
14:18:34 <Xaroth|Work> I know you know it sucks
14:18:53 <TrueBrain> and I know you know I know it sucks :D
14:19:01 <TrueBrain> no V453000 knows that I know that you know that I know it sucks :)
14:19:55 <Eddi|zuHause> isn't the point of a "fatal error" that you can only ever do one of those in a lifetime?
14:20:23 <Eddi|zuHause> "he commited suicide with two shots in the head, both fatal"
14:21:11 <blathijs> I guess that anything that will result in death is fatal, not just the things that actually resulted in your death
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14:21:32 <blathijs> And if you shoot yourself in the head two times, then it could be ruled a tie and both of them count :-)
14:21:33 <TrueBrain> breathing is fatal!
14:21:51 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Though not breathing is even _more_ fatal ;-p
14:22:04 <TrueBrain> more fatal ... interesting concept :D
14:22:15 <Eddi|zuHause> how many micromorts does one breath of air have?
14:23:00 <Eddi|zuHause> being alive for a year is something like 3000 micromorts in europe and 5000 micromorts in the US
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14:23:55 <Eddi|zuHause> 1 micromort being a 1:1000000 chance to die during this action
14:24:01 <TrueBrain> talking about being alive, hello andy!
14:25:36 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i had something to say about trams, but you left :p
14:25:53 <TrueBrain> you had something to say about trams, and he got bored
14:26:09 <andythenorth> hello TrueBrain and Eddi|zuHause
14:26:17 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause can you remember?
14:26:26 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the log remembers
14:26:51 <Xaroth|Work> all praise the mighty log
14:27:02 <TrueBrain> go back to work you
14:27:03 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: it's more amazing that he got bored before i even started :p
14:27:56 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: 100 for a vehicle that occupies a full tile? e.g. 2 8/8 or
14:28:05 <Xaroth|Work> TrueBrain: explaining a bunch of offspore devs how to git properly.. so I have enough time to multitask between facedesking and typing here.
14:32:43 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: purno thinks you talk too much off-topic in tt-f in the 2ccTS thread. He might have a vague point there, even though he's always quick to complain
14:33:13 <Eddi|zuHause> well, sort of...
14:33:21 <Xaroth|Work> wait, Eddi|zuHause talks off-topic? when?!?
14:33:45 <andythenorth> what is "off-topic"?
14:34:25 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i do happen to pick up side-topic discussions, it's not exactly "off-topic" as it's almost always in reply to something
14:34:32 <TrueBrain> those things on my pizza?
14:34:44 <andythenorth> it's a chocolate bar I think
14:35:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it's freezing foil
14:35:16 <andythenorth> bet you're all glad about that
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15:32:17 <NGC3982> Can't i use an USB stick as a primary system device for a RPI?
15:32:51 <peter1139> It needs to load the kernel off the SD card, but once you've done that anything should be possible.
15:33:10 <NGC3982> I'm in the wrong channel.
15:34:10 <__ln__> NGC3982: This channel is the ultimate source of information about any topic.
15:34:57 <Xaroth|Work> and I fully agree with what peter1139 said
15:35:00 <Xaroth|Work> which is... strange
15:41:15 <Eddi|zuHause> it's hard to disagree with a smilie
15:45:38 <NGC3982> __ln__: You guys are well read, yes.
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17:46:21 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: can I request rename of other people's grfs?
17:46:39 <andythenorth> also can you rename all my grfs lol.grf?
17:47:54 <TrueBrain> no to the first, sure to the latter; just post it :D
17:48:20 <andythenorth> I think we should have wiki style editing :P
17:48:35 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: don't make such suggestion if there is a chance that he'll actually do it :p
17:48:44 <andythenorth> I like to find out where his boundaries lie
17:48:47 <TrueBrain> so I Can rename all others to: fucking-bad.grf? :D
17:49:08 <andythenorth> what I like about TrueBrain is that you can never be sure what he might do :)
17:49:13 <Eddi|zuHause> is that the sequel to breaking-bad.grf?
17:49:24 <TrueBrain> I promise you, if you post it, they will be renamed :D
17:50:00 <planetmaker> tehehe. Were I you, I'd also take each request serious :)
17:50:42 <TrueBrain> and Tip of the day: I can be a BOFH :P
17:52:04 <planetmaker> should I amend my post accordingly: "Tip of the day: Truebrain can be a real BOFH"? :P
17:52:20 <TrueBrain> if you feel like it :P
17:53:41 <planetmaker> nah. Much more joyful if it sneaks up unseen :P
17:54:02 <TrueBrain> NOBODY expects the spannish inquisition!
17:54:08 <TrueBrain> owh, I Really should watch that serie again :D
17:54:27 <TrueBrain> okay, I have a problem now
17:54:30 <TrueBrain> I respect you too much to kick you
17:54:31 <planetmaker> ah, actually called like that :)
17:54:38 <TrueBrain> but you should be perma-banned for not knowing that
17:54:43 <planetmaker> except the mis-spelling :P
17:55:18 <TrueBrain> how can you NOT know Monthy Python?
17:55:25 <planetmaker> Herewith I sentence myself to watching it again
17:55:39 <planetmaker> I do know Monty Python. But not every title by them :)
17:55:47 <TrueBrain> where did you grew up in ... in Germany or something? :P
17:55:56 <planetmaker> I'm notoriously bad in remembering titles
17:56:09 <planetmaker> you know, my cave ;)
17:56:10 <TrueBrain> it is something they repeated over and over again for like 10 episodes :P
17:56:28 <TrueBrain> must watch! NOWWWW :P
17:57:06 <TrueBrain> and not the movies; the series :)
18:00:44 <Eddi|zuHause> <TrueBrain> NOBODY expects the spannish inquisition! <-- the fun part is actually, that the spanish inquisition gave you 30 days notice to prepare your defense
18:01:09 <TrueBrain> the fun part is, it is fun :D
18:02:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm pretty sure monty python was banned in my country
18:03:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i've certainly not watched all of it
18:03:22 <Eddi|zuHause> (which has no connection to the previous statement)
18:04:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i do remember it being on TV, but i was too young to appreciate it at that time
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18:06:29 <TrueBrain> GO WATHC IT NOOOOWWWWWUUUHHHHH
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18:41:30 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: unfortunately i have no time for distractions this next week or so
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18:45:16 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26397 trunk/src/lang/korean.txt (2014-03-11 18:45:09 UTC)
18:45:17 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:18 <DorpsGek> korean - 1 changes by telk5093
18:51:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i do have my moments sometimes :)
18:52:24 <planetmaker> that guy really knows very little, assumes a lot, and reads very little
18:53:13 <planetmaker> and complains a lot, based on vague assumptions :P
18:56:33 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: which makes it very important to filter out the stuff that is actually relevant, like that the TTD(P)-conversion apparently doesn't apply the default palette
18:57:39 <Eddi|zuHause> which probably nobody ever tested
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19:11:30 <Eddi|zuHause> the correct greeting would be "wat jeht."
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19:37:15 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: Want to hear my tip of the day?
19:39:28 <andythenorth> when you mean feature request
19:39:33 <andythenorth> or usability idea
19:39:47 <andythenorth> blame the lack of curry
19:39:56 * Pikka blames the lack of curry
19:39:57 <andythenorth> send that man curry, ASAP!
19:40:15 <andythenorth> fortunately curry can be rectified using internets
19:41:52 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: (I am picking on you because you have opinions) - is connecting networks the right goal?
19:42:24 <andythenorth> should all nodes be connected in a single network?
19:42:31 <andythenorth> is that the best gameplay goal?
19:43:56 <Eddi|zuHause> for symmetric cargos: yes, for asymmetric cargos: i don't see the point
19:44:16 <andythenorth> I am not bothering fonso because he gets enough silly cargodist discussions already
19:44:53 <andythenorth> I think one aspect of TTD has always been point-to-point, minimal node networks
19:45:02 <Pikka> if you have more than one train depot you're doing it wrong, imo.
19:45:02 <andythenorth> partly because in TTO, signals were crap :P
19:45:37 <andythenorth> I don't know if I'm very interested in connecting everything and moving cargo from all supply nodes to all accepting nodes
19:46:00 <Pikka> not usually, for cargo, no
19:46:19 <Phreeze> i really like the Pixel tool :D just needs some corrections, e.g the windows in the / and \ views differ
19:46:27 <Phreeze> once they are 2pixels wide, once 1pixel
19:47:09 <Phreeze> (damn cant copy paste...)
19:48:27 <Alberth> report a bug in the pixeltool project?
19:48:37 <Alberth> better, make a patch with a fix :)
19:49:30 <andythenorth> connecting all PAX makes sense for gameplay
19:50:37 <Eddi|zuHause> that is pretty much what i said
19:51:06 <andythenorth> I'm trying to not mention reality :)
19:51:10 <andythenorth> or small world networks
19:51:49 <andythenorth> I like fonso's two proposals, I think they're interesting
19:52:46 <Phreeze> i like that guy in the forums that heavily complains about the signals-gui ^^
19:53:00 <Phreeze> contrary to him, i wonder why people still play TTD+that patching blabla
19:53:16 <planetmaker> psst, I was just forgetting about it
19:56:19 <planetmaker> that's the right word, yes
19:56:22 <Taede> last time i played that was before i found openttd existed (0.4.something i believe)
19:59:53 <Phreeze> and by looking for some patch, i found openttd hehe
20:00:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i played TTDPatch 1.7
20:00:19 <planetmaker> around that time I found it, too.
20:00:35 <Phreeze> (i'm still wondering why some GRFs didn't make it to the fruit shop...annoying to look for them on abandoned webpages, like the canadian streets etc.)
20:00:36 <planetmaker> I had an OpenTTD 0.4.x somewhere. And really started playing around 0.5.3
20:01:09 <Eddi|zuHause> and then i had openttd 0.4.0, which is amazing because that was only available for a week
20:01:09 <planetmaker> they're outdated :D
20:01:10 <Alberth> Phreeze: the author doesn't want to
20:02:29 <Phreeze> it's mainly oooool sets
20:02:54 <planetmaker> why should he bother?
20:02:57 <Phreeze> outdated yes, but working fine
20:03:08 <Phreeze> why should he make a newgrf then if he doesn't bother ^^
20:03:33 <planetmaker> made ages ago, probably left community somewhen... ?
20:03:38 <Taede> then he gets ppl asking for new features, updated support, etc
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20:08:03 <frosch123> Phreeze: some newgrfs can become pointless
20:08:14 <Eddi|zuHause> anything involving the word "canadian" should ring all alarm bells
20:08:30 <frosch123> e.g. today "someone" uploaded an ancient sprite font grf for "tahoma bold"
20:08:48 <frosch123> though you can just specify any ttf font in openttd.cfg for 7 years or so
20:09:03 <Phreeze> ah yeah, that's pointless
20:09:08 <planetmaker> I think he just uploads all his NewGRFs
20:09:09 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: and we still have no font picker window
20:09:29 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: yup, because noone needs it
20:09:43 <frosch123> you configure a font once per lifetime and then you are done with it
20:10:10 <planetmaker> but you really need to know your system well
20:10:12 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: the problem starts when the automatically picked font is "wrong"
20:10:19 <planetmaker> to get the font name right and sometimes even paths
20:10:33 <Eddi|zuHause> also, people not knowing about the option don't know how to change font size
20:10:42 <planetmaker> there once was one. Worked only on linux irrc
20:10:54 <Eddi|zuHause> and people don't know what to type into the font name option
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20:11:54 <Phreeze> people that WANT to change the font, should know how to modify a config file
20:12:10 <Phreeze> (same as people that want to run linux in a VM should know what a bios is...)
20:13:17 <__ln__> bios is some ancient technology from the 80's still being used in less advanced computers
20:15:25 <Phreeze> (which is a pain in the $$$ if you have a HP laptop or so...closed like a nun's mumu)
20:16:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't have any experience with nun's mumus
20:16:54 <Phreeze> does someone have a 9/8 template for trains ? (aka 8 views)
20:17:26 <__ln__> my advanced computer has neither bios nor uefi.
20:17:38 <Phreeze> what is it ? a tablet ? ;)
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20:19:59 <__ln__> Phreeze: no, a fully functional laptop
20:21:20 <Phreeze> if it's that advanced, just because it's open....
20:21:30 <Phreeze> what CPU does it use ?
20:21:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Phreeze: do not check out CETS :p
20:22:00 <frosch123> i never had a laptop which you could not open
20:22:02 <__ln__> Kjetil: you win a 1-year space trip around the sun, onboard a planet.
20:22:11 <frosch123> isn't it pretty useless unless it is oened?
20:22:19 <Kjetil> cool! Can I bring a friend ?
20:22:43 <Eddi|zuHause> Phreeze: i have templates for 3 to 16, but "only" with 24 views
20:23:46 <Eddi|zuHause> Phreeze: well, then do check out CETS (on the devzone)
20:23:47 <Phreeze> i just should hit myself...created 4 trains with the pixeltool, with the wrong height...it misses 3 pixels
20:24:15 <fonsinchen> That thing is pretty darn hard to open, I can tell
20:25:39 <Phreeze> cets = central european train set i guess ?
20:28:18 <Kjetil> cets = misspelled cats
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20:30:36 <frosch123> aw, tb does not like coop :p
20:31:35 <frosch123> (the other tb obviously)
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22:09:04 <DorpsGek> Commit by zuu :: r26398 trunk/src/script/api/script_station.cpp (2014-03-11 22:08:58 UTC)
22:09:05 <DorpsGek> -Codechange/fix (26396): A tab that should be a space
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23:16:23 <Eddi|zuHause> german news is weird today... "who cares about Ukraine, Turkey, Syria... we have A TAX EVASION COURT CASE"
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continue to next day ⏵
