IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-12-29
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00:00:11 <Eddi|zuHause> but when did that ever stop anyone :p
00:02:02 <__ln__> umm, "minimal pair" is an important concept in phonetics. :) but i'm thinking the definition for it that i've learned is either over-simplified, or i've forgotten some details about it.
00:04:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean "minimal pair" of length one will screw with your error detection ability
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04:16:15 <Flygon> I'm going to run on the assumption here that FRISS doesn't unlock electric lines along similiar parematers to that other one... with the name... that I forgot
04:16:26 <Flygon> The one with the awkward grey rails with the graphical alignment error on some junctions
04:37:12 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean nutracks
04:38:30 <Eddi|zuHause> generally, rails are unlocked as soon as an engine is available for them, but the track set may specify additional triggers (like other railtype becoming available or simple date)
04:40:00 <Flygon> Yeah, I'm suspecting FRISS is datelocked
04:40:14 <Flygon> Metro becoming unlocked as soon as I got them surprised me, though
04:40:36 <Eddi|zuHause> the track set cannot prevent this
04:40:51 <Eddi|zuHause> it can only make it appear earlier, not later
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08:00:18 <juzza1> Flygon_: what train newgrf(s) are you using, and what is the year you are expecting the electric rails to appear?
08:00:39 *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
08:00:58 <Flygon> As in, the 2CC worldwide set
08:01:29 <Flygon> Was expecting the electric stuff to appear largely in sync with how it did with NuTracks
08:02:01 <Flygon> Given what I've just figured out, 2CC stuffs out a lot of low speed electric sets early on, and the lowest electric rails in FRISS seems to be 140km/h :p
08:03:14 <Flygon> (as in, the mainline ones)
08:05:27 <juzza1> the electric rails in FRISS are generally introduced from the year 1968, unless an train which requires catenary appears earlier
08:07:44 <Flygon> Not as familiar with the history of Finland as I should be, sorry x3
08:09:51 <juzza1> i should change the props so that (at least) one electrified branch line is introduced as soon as the electrified mainline is introduced
08:11:36 <juzza1> should be changed in the next release
08:15:50 <Flygon> This's my first FRISS game, that is all
08:16:39 <Flygon> The 90km/h cap on Metro is mildly surprising, though, given a few sets go over that. But, then again, it is a Finnish rail set
08:30:16 <juzza1> A parameter to disable that would make sense, considering speed limit for the best mainline can also be disabled
08:40:05 <Flygon> Also, for some reason, the Sand/Gravel and Gravel Base graphics are sharing the... same graphics, obviously. The Sand/Gravel changed to the same as Gravel when Gravel became available (the Sand/Gravel was the same as sand/gravel siding graphics)
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08:44:48 <Flygon> Do note, though. At the start of the game, I accidentally set the GRF's to the wrong palette, and had to fix this later mid-game
08:44:56 <Flygon> Which's, obviously, against guidelines
08:48:55 <Flygon> My English isn't the best, darnit @_@
08:49:05 <Flygon> All Australians are terrible at English! :D
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08:59:11 <juzza1> yes, some of the railtypes do intentionally look the same, especially in later years. this could be somewhat fixed in a later release by changing the minimap colors for each railtype
09:00:36 <Flygon> The problem is more that a railtype changed appearance, mid-game
09:00:41 <Flygon> Without me doing anything to it
09:01:03 <Flygon> And examination revealed that the railtype looked identical to the one that just got introduced
09:01:22 <Flygon> But it looked different before the new railtype became introduced
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09:04:05 <juzza1> it's supposed to mimic how it actually happened in finland (old ballast/sleepers getting replaced), so again, it's intentional, although i can understand the confusion
09:06:00 <Flygon> Such things never really happened here. Track was assigned specific class, and ballast application never really changed in the many many years
09:06:35 <Flygon> Let's rephrase that: The visual appearance didn't change. I'm really not used to Scandinavian/European practice. x3
09:07:00 <Flygon> Sorry for my... er... there's gotta be a word for this
09:07:56 <Flygon> I'd say derpiness, but that sounds silly
09:13:00 <juzza1> it has always been a bit weird, starting from the olden times when we adopted broad gauge because finland was a part of russia
09:13:20 <juzza1> but I have to go now ->
09:13:40 <Flygon> We're perpetually in Broad Gauge here :B
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13:47:32 <andythenorth> trying to figure out how to have less than 4 generations of trucks :P
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14:10:22 <Xaroth|Work> andythenorth: metaclasses
14:10:25 <Xaroth|Work> whatever it is, metaclasses
14:10:50 <andythenorth> I shall keep that in mind
14:12:05 <Xaroth|Work> I think, with a bit (read: crapload) of effort, grfs can be created from pure python code, rather than python => templates => nml => grf
14:18:42 <Xaroth|Work> then maaaybe something for grfs
14:19:03 <Xaroth|Work> mainly because I have no clue what-so-ever about the spec, so i'll have to investigate first
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14:47:36 <andythenorth> Xaroth|Work: you'd rip most of the stuff from nml - the lexer, all of the constants etc
14:48:09 <andythenorth> you'd still end up writing something that looked like templates, because you'd get bored of formatting strings of bytes directly
14:48:29 <andythenorth> if you do it in C or something, it might actually be performative too :P
14:49:51 <Xaroth|Work> andythenorth: I was more likely to just rewrite it :P
14:50:06 <Xaroth|Work> and with python's metaclass system, it can look pwetty
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14:51:39 <andythenorth> do you actually have a plan? o_O
14:52:07 <andythenorth> like, what would the interface be?
14:52:23 <Xaroth|Work> you know a bit how metaclasses work in python?
14:53:06 <andythenorth> I have read articles on them
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15:12:47 <Xaroth|Work> basically, packets.Packet has a metaclass that adds some magic to it, so that we only have to describe packets, and the metaclass will build us a reader/writer for the raw data
15:13:00 <Xaroth|Work> kinda like how Django does its ORM
15:14:55 <Xaroth|Work> so for GRF building, people can just describe their GRF in form of classes (not sure how to do the conditionals, but I haven't looked at that -at all- yet)
15:15:33 <andythenorth> I'm curious how you'd do varaction 2 switches (for example)
15:15:44 <andythenorth> classes for the vehicles / objects / tiles etc is plausible
15:15:46 <Xaroth|Work> I have -no- idea :p
15:16:04 <Xaroth|Work> I don't know most of the specs to have any clue how to fix those
15:16:21 <andythenorth> maybe something like a Switch class
15:16:31 <Xaroth|Work> but idealisticly speaking, if nmlc can parse it from text, surely it can be built :)
15:16:33 <andythenorth> with multiple Row classes, passed in an iterable, fixed order
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15:17:54 <Xaroth|Work> but that said, I'm first going to work on libopenttd
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16:22:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no clue what this saphire guy is trying to achieve...
16:22:57 <Eddi|zuHause> he's somewhere between SkiddLow and andythenorth :p
16:23:12 <andythenorth> he is somewhat having fun I think
16:23:15 <andythenorth> pumping out awesome
16:23:34 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: hopefully you just described a full spectrum :P
16:24:25 <Eddi|zuHause> at least not in the "knows what he wants" department :p
16:27:38 <andythenorth> I dunno, I think skiddlow knows 100% what he wants
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17:29:12 <andythenorth> 114 trucks in egrvts
17:29:26 <andythenorth> covering 200 years
17:33:13 <andythenorth> Alberth: you prefer to pick vehicles directly for a cargo where possible? No refitting?
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18:45:16 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26185 trunk/src/lang/norwegian_nynorsk.txt (2013-12-29 18:45:09 UTC)
18:45:17 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:18 <DorpsGek> norwegian_nynorsk - 137 changes by terjesc
18:55:32 <Macha> Does anyone know how a bus would manage to lost 15x its running costs in a year?
18:56:24 <montalvo> hello, sorry if this is a basic question but i just downloaded 1.4.0-beta1 and was told i had to update opengfx to a beta version, but i don't know where to find the download for that?
18:56:50 <Macha> Go to download online content, and install OpenGFX from there
18:56:59 <Macha> (In the game menu, you might need to restart after)
19:14:30 <montalvo> so speaking of basic questions
19:14:37 <montalvo> is there a guide somewhere about how this new cargo distribution feature works?
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19:17:43 <Macha> Basically, cargo ends up in your station, and then the destination is chosen from among all the reachable stations that accept that good.
19:17:58 <Macha> You turn it on/off seperately for pax, mail, valuables and everything else.
19:18:35 <Macha> And stuff is smart enough to automatically transfer if you have no direct line route
19:18:46 <planetmaker> <Macha> Does anyone know how a bus would manage to lost 15x its running costs in a year? <-- NewGRF-provided vehicles can dynamically change running costs. The displayed value does not correspond to that in those cases.
19:19:45 <planetmaker> or more likely you use transfer orders where that vehicle gets a negative share of the overall profit
19:20:06 <Macha> I don't use transfer orders, but stuff is transferring because of cargodist being on
19:20:18 <planetmaker> same thing then, I guess :)
19:20:37 <planetmaker> could, of course, also be both reasons
19:20:51 <Macha> Yeah, I have UKRS trains and some UK bus set.
19:21:04 <planetmaker> they *do* dynamically change running costs
19:28:02 <montalvo> so is this why my profits have dropped? because my mainline has loads of other stations along the way so passengers are getting off earlier?
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19:36:45 <Macha> montalvo: Probably part of it
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20:59:05 <__ln__> "Schumacher hospitalisé : hémorragie cérébrale, état critique"
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22:50:36 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, this is weird... steam had a crash problem, which i solved by updating wine, then it worked for a while, and now it crashes again on startup
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