IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-11-02
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10:05:57 <robotboy> LordAro, I hope you didn't take the pm I sent you yesterday seriously :P
10:06:25 <LordAro> wasn't extremely clear though ;)
10:07:48 <robotboy> I personaly think you are the type of user that will never get a pm like that in the future
10:13:48 <LordAro> ah, but i have in the past though :L
10:21:42 <LordAro> i'm not especially proud of my warning from yexo
10:22:15 <planetmaker> that must be some time ago...
10:23:58 <DorpsGek> LordAro: yexo was last seen in #openttd 48 weeks, 0 days, 21 hours, 7 minutes, and 26 seconds ago: <Yexo> <NGC3982> The station glitches are CHIPS related. I adressed it to Andy the other day, and it seems like it's b0rked in some way. <- it's still in the issue tracker for CHIPS, but I haven't had time to look at it yet
10:24:25 <planetmaker> that statement still is true, though :(
10:25:23 <planetmaker> a serious case of RL
10:25:37 <LordAro> iirc, someone said he was still active, but not here :(
10:25:58 <planetmaker> well. Not anywhere in TTD land
10:26:02 <robotboy> I feel ashamed when looking at some of my first posts :P
10:26:17 <planetmaker> at least no-where I know.
10:26:43 <robotboy> but I have learnt my way around the TT world since then
10:27:50 <LordAro> still no idea what i did before i found this :)
10:28:15 * robotboy should realy learn m4nfo and do some work on the Thomas the Tank Engine set
10:29:45 <planetmaker> doesn't NML 0.2.x work for TTDP?
10:33:39 <robotboy> nope. ID's are in extended format and no TTDP version can read them
10:34:30 <robotboy> that is on the wishlist for 2.6 (for the range of IDs that TTD can use) once 2.5 gets released
10:34:55 <Alberth> sounds somewhat bug-ish?
10:35:34 <Alberth> iirc NML 0.2 was intended for TTDP compatibility
10:35:51 <robotboy> hmm, I will double check my NML version
10:37:04 <andythenorth> have you provided Kamnet with newgrf usage stats from *within* ottd? :o
10:37:19 <andythenorth> I didn't know we'd implemented a 'phone-home' API :o
10:38:27 <andythenorth> well he has a list of the most popular grfs
10:40:01 <andythenorth> note to self: don't reply to that thread :|
10:42:06 * andythenorth will regret that
10:45:48 <planetmaker> andythenorth, no. I actually would like such stats, too :-)
10:46:22 <planetmaker> going by forum postings / irc - I recon your judgement wrt ukrs is quite right, andythenorth
10:46:41 <planetmaker> not sure about ships. Popular is what people find. And that is FISH
10:47:02 <andythenorth> I just looked at Bananas
10:47:02 <planetmaker> only other ship set I'd consider is sailing ships. And they're complementary
10:47:05 <andythenorth> it's the only stat we have
10:47:10 <andythenorth> the rest is conjecture
10:47:15 <planetmaker> and stations: ISR has IMHO a *very* huge lead
10:47:20 <planetmaker> then all others come
10:48:51 <robotboy> IN NML should introduction_date: date(1997,01,01); introduce a bus by 1 january 1998?
10:49:22 <planetmaker> depends on when you start your game
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10:50:20 <planetmaker> starting 1996, 1997 or 1998 might give you that result
10:50:55 <andythenorth> depends on the 17-year randomisation thing too
10:51:00 <andythenorth> (I think it's 17)
10:51:24 <planetmaker> actually quite wrong what I said. Starting in 1996, 1997 or 1995 will NOT give you that result. Other starting dates might
10:51:41 <planetmaker> starting dates vary by 0 ... 2 years ingame
10:51:42 <robotboy> I started in 1950 at the earliest
10:52:01 <planetmaker> and it's a game thing. which also TTD does
10:53:14 <robotboy> weel no vehicle got created in 1998 in TTDP. Now to check OpenTTD
10:54:38 <planetmaker> TTDP would likely have the same 2 year random range for introduction
10:55:01 <planetmaker> 0 ... 2 years added to introduction date is wanted. By the game. And out of the hands of newgrfs
10:55:48 <robotboy> I shall double check TTDPatch by choosing 1999
10:56:00 <planetmaker> you might get another date... It's random. Per game
10:56:39 <planetmaker> as long as the introduction date up to two years after newgrf-defined one, that's normal
10:56:44 <planetmaker> can be 0. can be 2
10:56:50 <planetmaker> decided upon map generation
10:57:05 <planetmaker> do the same in openttd again, you might get 1997. or 1999
10:57:47 <robotboy> No vehicle by 1999 in TTDPatch. I got it in OpenTTD
10:58:12 <robotboy> TTDPatch doesn't show any GRF loading errors at the title screen
10:58:14 <planetmaker> well, you can check the nfo. NML does even have nfo output
10:58:23 <planetmaker> nmlc --nfo file.nof file.nml
10:58:46 <robotboy> I think I shall post my full nml file to the NML thread
10:59:15 <robotboy> I have other issues to sort out after this
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11:17:03 <planetmaker> hm, line 19 should start with 3 * 46
11:19:17 <robotboy> is that the nfo output of nmlc for my nml file?
11:20:22 <planetmaker> no, it's not. It's using a byte-size ID instead of word-size
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11:28:17 <robotboy> hmm, I can't seem to work out how to use grfcodec. I think I am supossed to specify grfcodec -e main.grf in the folder containing main.nfo and main.grf?
11:29:38 <planetmaker> you could use grfcodec -e main.grf .
11:29:47 <planetmaker> if you place the nfo alongside the nml
11:32:48 <robotboy> aha. Got it to work. Now to run TTDP
11:34:10 <planetmaker> right, so that's the crucial thing. Good to know
11:34:16 <robotboy> TTDP gives me a wrong .grf version error
11:34:33 <planetmaker> oh, yeah. I didn't use nml 0.2
11:34:40 <robotboy> and of course OpenTTD for comparison
11:35:27 <robotboy> you mean to generate the nfo?
11:35:39 <planetmaker> yeah. But the difference doesn't exist
11:35:43 <planetmaker> except in grf version
11:36:13 <planetmaker> sprite 2 declares grf version. Change it to 2 * 141 08 07 ...
11:37:06 <planetmaker> I also updated the grf file in the link
11:41:21 <robotboy> Invalid Sprite #3 (Code 4/7) is what TTDPatch gives me with the GRF from your link
11:42:25 <robotboy> OpenTTD gave me Unknown Action 0 property 0x5(Sprite 3)
11:42:37 <robotboy> that was on map generation
11:46:33 <planetmaker> yeah, I can't write nfo
11:47:26 <planetmaker> delete the FF in the first line of sprite 3
11:49:09 <robotboy> That should be line 19
11:51:53 <robotboy> and change the number of bytes as well
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11:57:14 <robotboy> in TTDPatch I get the foster bus introduced in 1986 but not my bus. No Foster bus or my bus in OpenTTD both game started around 1950 and cheated to 1999
11:57:30 <robotboy> no loading errors from either platform
11:59:39 <Alberth> unexpected person responded, but hi too :)
12:05:10 <robotboy> was playing with NML and then nfo to get a GRF to work on both platforms :)
12:23:23 <robotboy> planetmaker, I think we should put nml and nfo down for the night. I may have a look at it tomorrow again if you have time to look at it any further
12:27:31 <planetmaker> k. If that code doesn't compile I really don't know
12:27:39 <planetmaker> especially w/o errors ;-)
12:28:15 <robotboy> It compiles without errors from grfcodec or both platforms
12:28:59 <robotboy> I think I will post the NFO in the NML thread
12:29:11 <robotboy> I will look again in the morning
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13:11:39 <Eddi|zuHause> <robotboy> hmm, I can't seem to work out how to use grfcodec. I think I am supossed to specify grfcodec -e main.grf in the folder containing main.nfo and main.grf? <-- by default, grfcodec tries to get the .nfo from the "sprites" subdirectory, so the "." is necessary for saying "use this directory
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13:27:14 <robotboy> aha even though I sorted it earlier
13:38:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i read that it worked the, i just wanted to give an explanation why
13:55:10 <frosch123> paths are kind of tricky with grfcodec
13:55:35 <frosch123> for some reason it resolved path in the nfo file relative to the working dir, and not relative to the nfo file
14:03:58 <andythenorth> I can pass a method around in python, right?
14:04:50 <andythenorth> I probably shouldn't though
14:04:56 <Alberth> as part of an instance though, ie a = self.myfun a()
14:05:12 <andythenorth> passing methods as parameters to other methods is not fun to debug :)
14:05:18 <andythenorth> I am going to find an alternative
14:05:41 * peter1138 delegates andythenorth to delegating the delegates.
14:05:46 <Alberth> depends on your taste of fun, but it's challenging :)
14:05:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i use functions of higher order in CETS
14:05:54 <andythenorth> peter1138: thanks :)
14:06:08 <Eddi|zuHause> in the for_all_vehicles function i pass a function as parameter
14:07:32 <Eddi|zuHause> but the same thing can be done using object oriented programming
14:07:56 <Eddi|zuHause> as the object basically is a set of functions passed along with the data
14:08:28 <Eddi|zuHause> so you should probably be asking a different question altogether
14:08:52 <andythenorth> explaining the case would take a long time relative to the value of the answer :)
14:08:52 <Eddi|zuHause> which problem am i trying to solve, and what's the most elegant/maintainable/simple solution
14:09:44 <Eddi|zuHause> if your problem is too large to explain, you need to look for a different problem to solve :p
14:09:59 <andythenorth> I am trying to avoid bother declaring a property (simplest option), or having too many classes (too many classes), or having spaghetti objects with lots of 'if / else' checking flags (meh)
14:10:25 <andythenorth> it is not a very interesting problem
14:10:43 <Eddi|zuHause> you need to read a book on design patterns
14:11:09 <andythenorth> that's probably the worst thing I could do :)
14:11:38 <andythenorth> I would start trying to apply inappropriate patterns
14:11:47 <andythenorth> just to see if I could
14:13:12 <andythenorth> the nicest way to do this would be a mixin
14:16:12 <andythenorth> or a simple subclass :P
14:16:21 <andythenorth> does a kitten die if I create another subclass?
14:24:59 <Eddi|zuHause> again, i think you're asking the wrong question
14:41:09 <andythenorth> think of the kittens though...
14:41:38 <Alberth> yes! no more subclasses! ever!
14:42:00 <Alberth> (hmm, the world may get overrun with kittens now :( )
14:42:30 <Eddi|zuHause> don't the romanians have that problem with dogs currently?
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15:03:17 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: so what question would you ask yourself? o_O
15:03:25 <andythenorth> other than 'why is there a cat on my keyboard again?'
15:03:46 <Eddi|zuHause> my cats try to avoid stepping on the keyboard
15:04:53 <andythenorth> are they just polite, or did you teach them?
15:09:33 * andythenorth baby things, bbl
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16:37:02 <mouse4334> I'm a total openttd newbie. (I've done the tutorial though.) Is there someplace I can find a multiplayer game where I can cooperate with someone to help show me the ropes?
16:37:23 <mouse4334> openttdcoop.org maybe?
16:37:49 <Taede> the coop welcome server would be a good one yes
16:39:44 <mouse4334> all the companies have passwords do I create my own?
16:41:00 <Taede> or just watch and see what the others are doing
16:41:12 <Taede> either way, ask questions, try stuff
16:46:23 <mouse4334> thanks taede I'll ask further questions in-game
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17:45:21 <andythenorth> ooh, super evil, I could call eval() on a string :x
17:47:44 <Eddi|zuHause> god kills ALL kittens if you do that
17:48:42 <andythenorth> if you do it on input from a web form, god kills ALL kittens twice
17:48:47 <andythenorth> and makes you watch
18:03:29 <tigeroo> Wondering if there is a way to add colors that you can use for transport companies and new face features, or know where I can find add-ons for that
18:04:11 <Eddi|zuHause> there is a "NewCC" grf that can replace the company colours
18:04:21 <Eddi|zuHause> and at least an "asian faces" grf
18:07:05 <tigeroo> know where I can find NewCC?
18:08:08 <frosch123> it's in the ingame content download
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18:45:14 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25936 trunk/src/lang/korean.txt (2013-11-02 18:45:08 UTC)
18:45:15 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:16 <DorpsGek> korean - 1 changes by telk5093
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19:21:36 <andythenorth> So I ended up making a subclass :( Apologies for the lost kitten.
20:03:40 <frosch123> it's no murder, if you eat them
20:16:41 <andythenorth> 10/8 long sprites look...interesting...on slopes
20:33:39 <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't look bad in CETS
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20:46:57 <Thurak> what would be good settings to use if i want lots of mountains but also to look somewhat realistic
20:47:15 <andythenorth> there aren't any
20:47:26 <andythenorth> ask peter1138 what happened to fixing terragenesis :)
20:47:36 <andythenorth> you could use a height map
20:48:27 <frosch123> mountanious, smooth, low variety, 30% water
20:49:24 <Eddi|zuHause> more height levels :)
20:49:37 <Thurak> has openttd become a lot more popular now yogscast did a few videos about a month ago
20:49:50 <Thurak> i remember something similar happening about 2 years ago
20:49:56 <frosch123> it increased the download rate for some weeks
20:50:14 <frosch123> last month was about the 5th time or so
20:50:26 <frosch123> they played two christmas, two times each or so
20:50:49 <frosch123> but while we see the download rate, noone knows who actually plays
20:51:10 <frosch123> who sticks with it, and who quits after 5 minutes, 1 day, 1 week, ...
20:51:19 <Thurak> ahh, maybe lots of young people download, get confused, quit
20:51:28 <Eddi|zuHause> well is anyone recording changes in online play?
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20:51:43 <Thurak> ive normally played in short bursts over the past 4 years or so
20:51:50 <Thurak> ever since i started using linux
20:52:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't played in ages
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20:52:31 <Thurak> on my laptop atm tho so im stuck with micro$oft products...
20:52:52 <Thurak> second hand tho, so i didnt pay for it :P
20:53:05 <frosch123> Thurak: anyway, sips let'splay had about 2 months worth of downloads within 3 weeks
20:53:20 <frosch123> so, over the year it does not really matter
20:53:35 <frosch123> it's a noticeable peak, but not important in the long run
20:54:06 <Thurak> i always think its nice when games that are truly free to play get attention like that
20:54:16 <frosch123> also the way yogscast plays ottd, it does not really matter what they play :p
20:54:29 <frosch123> they talk, the game is somewhat irrelevant
20:54:46 <Thurak> tbh thats the case for quite a few people on youtube
20:54:48 <ST2> yeah, frosch123 is right; many players try it... but few stay :(
20:54:57 <Thurak> just have it running as audio while playing a game
20:55:13 <frosch123> so, i kind of wonder about the expectations of the viewers when they decide to download :p
20:55:44 <Thurak> ehh.... i have to go teach people how to take off in war thunder... (flight sim)
20:56:07 <frosch123> [21:54] <Thurak> tbh thats the case for quite a few people on youtube <- yup, i watch a lot of let's play (usually not yogscast). but the way ottd is presented makes me think about the other stuff different :p
20:56:08 <Thurak> apparently he has been failing for over 4 hours >.<
20:56:36 <Thurak> yeah generally i watch other stuff mostly as well
20:56:48 <Eddi|zuHause> that might be the time to read the manual :p
20:57:31 <Thurak> turn engine on, put rudder to 10%, power up, wait.... pull up, you are in the air
20:59:34 <Thurak> i wonder what the average age of someone that launches a ddos attack is..
21:00:02 <frosch123> middle between 12 and 18
21:00:22 <Thurak> why would you target an online game with ddos..
21:00:37 <frosch123> ofc only considdering hobby ddossers
21:00:45 <frosch123> professional ones are likely older
21:00:46 <Thurak> even if it was EA thats going too far
21:02:30 <planetmaker> people have easy means to vote: don't buy and don't play
21:02:49 <planetmaker> it's also the most effective means to vote
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