IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-10-05
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02:51:33 <kristal> I've done something so awful I will never release it... 3D TTD... it's like dropping a nuke and vaporizing of the nostalgia factor and charm of the game.
02:52:27 <Supercheese> change the sprite-drawing method to support steroscopic layers?
02:53:15 <kristal> No, voxel conversions.
02:53:28 <kristal> Little vans made of cubes.
02:53:50 <kristal> It all falls apart when things go diagonally...
02:54:43 <kristal> I wonder, is a VPS with 128MB of RAM (30MB used by OS) enough for a medium server?
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04:21:43 <kristal> totally not a fishing link
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06:54:29 <planetmaker> oh, a Pikka, salut :-) And salut V as well :-)
07:00:50 <planetmaker> heritage vehicle set: horse-towed mail carriage. cow-towed cargo wagons. horses as express passenger transport :D
07:00:57 <planetmaker> and dragons as express flight :D
07:01:13 <planetmaker> hell of many animations necessary there
07:02:20 <V453000> nothing is impossible to happen :)
07:04:41 <kristal> Is there a zepplin plugin?
07:06:49 <V453000> hm the link isnt yet :D
07:08:40 <peter1139> Canals with signals :S
07:08:48 <planetmaker> all those poor ducklings
07:13:46 <V453000> peter1139: you dont have to build signals :P
07:13:54 <V453000> with Slight disadvantages, but still :D
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09:51:41 <wakou2> Could someone please help me with my memory, On here people were discussing bridges, and someone linked to a German website for bridge enthusiasts...
09:52:15 <Alberth> hmm, wrong magic word :p
09:53:51 <Alberth> otherwise, I have no idea
09:54:29 <wakou2> TY Albert :) It was a long time ago......
09:54:41 <wakou2> Are you German Alberth?
09:55:18 <Alberth> wakou2: no, and neither am I ottder :)
09:56:23 <wakou2> Alberth: No, it was a site about bridges IRL, pictures and information about european bridges, staistics, architects dates etc
09:57:04 <Alberth> oh, a usual off-topic topic thus :)
09:57:24 <Alberth> I don't remember it, so I wasn't there, I think
09:58:00 <Alberth> LordAro has all the magic words :)
09:58:18 * LordAro tested with a pm to DorpsGek first ;)
09:59:19 <Alberth> you're too much awake at this time :)
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10:21:05 <wakou2> Would there be a word in De. for a person who likes bridges? In Eng. I guessed at pontophile, but that apparently means favouring the deep ocean.
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15:19:49 <frosch123> LordAro: make a 10 hour video of bogo sort
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15:20:25 <LordAro> it'd be interesting if it managed to solve a list of that size in that time ;)
15:20:43 <LordAro> bogobogo sort sounds more fun, anyway :p
15:34:59 <oskari892> Did someone work on different size and -layout towns?
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15:37:58 <oskari89> In addition of current ones
15:38:28 <supermop> can railtypes have custom foundations?
15:38:51 <supermop> or custom ground sprites?
15:40:27 <frosch123> you can make the gravel cover more of the ground sprite
15:40:40 <frosch123> but railtypes were specifically designed to work with different landscape sets
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15:41:52 <supermop> when rails are built on a foundation, do they just reference the plain grass sprite to be their ground sprite?
15:42:25 <frosch123> the foundations themself do not include any grass
15:42:49 <frosch123> they are the same for houses and industries
15:43:08 <supermop> i was hoping i could have a railtype use a clear blue foundation
15:44:11 <supermop> or have some combination of groundsprite and foundation to make the rail look like it was built on a little viaduct alongside the slopr
15:45:14 <supermop> as the idea of building a retaining wall, backfilling with earth, then digging out a channel for the monorail to run through looks a bit silly
15:45:50 <supermop> it would be neat if you could use custom sprites to make it look like the monorail was built slightly elevated along the slope
15:46:00 <supermop> hmm 1 sec i will try to draw
15:46:56 <frosch123> i know what you mean :)
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15:53:06 <oskari89> I'm thinking that if changing snowlines are possible, would it be possible to have frozen sea level and rivers too?
15:53:30 <oskari89> Though ships would look a little strange to plow trough ice
15:54:55 <frosch123> frozen rivers are possible
15:55:14 <frosch123> i think ogfx+ might actually have them
15:55:19 <frosch123> or maybe also only canals
16:00:20 <supermop> frosch123: so this is not really possible?
16:00:22 <Flygon> It'd be nice if OpenTTD had far more climate flexibility
16:00:43 <Flygon> It'd be nice if, for example, that beautiful 2048*2048 map of North America didn't have a Mexico with snow in it
16:00:54 <frosch123> supermop: only for stations :p
16:01:07 <Flygon> Last I checked, Roswell wasn't exacty sub-arctic :p
16:04:08 <supermop> is there any desire for non-station items to have custom foundations in the future, or would that be a bad idea?
16:07:00 <supermop> i wonder if there is a better way to fake an alweg style monorail
16:25:38 <oskari89> Roadtypes could be nice :)
16:26:06 <oskari89> Towns could have connections to each other with gravel roads
16:27:12 <oskari89> And industries could have automatical connections with gravel roads to "main roads" between towns
16:27:30 <oskari89> Limited speed of course, so one couldn't use them too easily
16:28:24 <oskari89> Scenery looks quite plain without any additional roads between towns
16:28:38 <oskari89> After scenario generation
16:28:50 <oskari89> And industries look lonely too
16:29:20 <oskari89> One could convert those roads to asphalt roads with a tool :P
16:30:32 <oskari89> When implementing roadtypes, one could make also diagonal roads
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16:31:46 <Alberth> ever tried drawing them at a grid?
16:33:30 <frosch123> or as dalestan asked 6 years ago: can you imagine 4 road vehicles in parallel on one tile
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16:40:24 <oskari892> I think overlays should solve grid-issues :P
16:41:16 <oskari892> As it is the case with railtypes
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17:45:22 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25812 trunk/src/lang/brazilian_portuguese.txt (2013-10-05 17:45:16 UTC)
17:45:23 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:24 <DorpsGek> brazilian_portuguese - 4 changes by Tucalipe
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18:14:37 <oskari89> I wonder how "far away" the moreheightlevels patch is of trunk inclusion? :)
18:15:06 <Rubidium> at least 50 trunk bug fixes?
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18:39:20 <andythenorth> so is there any reason I shouldn't code train wagons as articulated vehicles, composed of n 1/8 long parts
18:39:39 <Supercheese> Strange interaction with air drag effects
18:39:47 <Supercheese> one wagon should generate x drag
18:39:55 <Supercheese> but an articulated "single" wagon does not do that
18:40:04 <supermop> make the bogies separate from the car body
18:40:08 <Supercheese> it generates, presumably, somewhere around 2x drag
18:40:29 <Supercheese> so you have to faff around with extra callbacks to "fix" that
18:40:48 <Supercheese> or set the drag lower in properties...?
18:41:07 <Supercheese> lemme find the Pikka-post
18:42:44 <Supercheese> so yeah, set the drag lower by 1/x, where x is number of articulated parts
18:44:31 <Supercheese> I dunno if he tried to fix it and it wasn't easy, or he just said "meh, lame feature anyway, not worth coding fixes"
18:46:05 <andythenorth> I'm trying to provide vehicles with lengths between 4/8 and 10/8
18:46:15 <andythenorth> and the only way to do 10/8 is articulated
18:47:23 <michi_cc> andythenorth: Use the CETS code generator?
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18:48:50 * Supercheese wonders how CETS handles the air drag business
18:50:12 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: how are you handling 10/8 vehicles?
18:50:16 <andythenorth> or at least > 8/8?
18:50:24 * andythenorth has been baffled for days by this
18:50:34 <Supercheese> I can think of a few ways
18:50:45 <Supercheese> 1) Use invisible parts to fix the spacing
18:50:59 <Supercheese> 3) Split wagon itself (would look odd)
18:51:24 <andythenorth> oh I'm using invisible parts
18:51:35 <andythenorth> the problems are:
18:51:54 <andythenorth> - I assume I have to put the sprites on the center vehicle, not the lead
18:52:11 <andythenorth> which makes the code byzantine, and prevents use of loading / loaded sprites in normal way
18:53:09 <andythenorth> - some vehicles have tenders
18:53:14 <michi_cc> The CETS script contains magic to split the graphics into three parts for straight movement (which also makes tunnels not glitch), but displays a single sprite on the center vehicle during turning (and of course with more turning stages).
18:53:35 <andythenorth> so having a 10/8 articulated engine, (two 1/8 invisible parts) followed by a visible part is hard to specify
18:53:53 <michi_cc> All vehicles have three parts, no matter which size as this is necessary for the turning angles anyway.
18:54:28 <andythenorth> what about case above - steam engine with tender?
18:55:35 <michi_cc> Two three parts vehicles.
18:55:51 <andythenorth> ok that could work
18:56:23 <andythenorth> do articulated vehicles have any performance implications?
18:56:59 <michi_cc> Everything has performance implications :p
18:57:08 <andythenorth> significant ones? :P
19:04:38 <Supercheese> I can't find any processed nml output
19:06:43 <michi_cc> It's python, i.e. all NML output is generated during make
19:09:41 <Supercheese> any final nml output anywhere? am I just missing it at bundles?
19:10:21 <Supercheese> ah, there's one of an old revision
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19:22:47 <michi_cc> In the newest CETS revisions NML was degraded to an intermediate step as compiling the set from a single NML file takes too long. Nowadays the "prefered" way to do build it is by using a patched nmlc to output NFO that is concatenated and fed to grfcodec (e.g. http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/cets/push/v4954-2/cets.nfo)
19:23:20 <Supercheese> I figured something like that may be the case
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20:23:49 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, basically each engine gets an nml file, which is processed by nmlc to nfo, then from the nfo the common headers are split off to get a combined nfo file, which is the again handled by grfcodec
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20:37:53 <Supercheese> Well, how does CETS hangle the air drag coefficients for articulated vehicles?
20:38:12 <Supercheese> Set invisible parts' to zero?
20:39:01 <frosch123> doesn'T only the front part define air drag?
20:39:14 <Supercheese> See the pikka post I linked above
20:42:39 <frosch123> ah, each artic part increases air drag by 0.15
20:43:42 <frosch123> what is the idea behind that?
20:43:51 <frosch123> or should it be train length instead?
20:44:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i think there was some weirdness with air drag, which was "solved" by decreasing it
20:44:13 <Eddi|zuHause> but that was oberhümers doing
20:44:19 <frosch123> this->gcache.cached_air_drag = air_drag + 3 * air_drag * number_of_parts / 20;
20:44:43 <frosch123> air_drag is from the front, it is scaled by (1 + 0.15 * num_train_parts)
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20:45:36 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, and that can't fully be scaled by dividing air drag
20:45:48 <Eddi|zuHause> so it's probably unsolvable
20:46:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i think the name of the commit was something like "reduce air drag so vehicles can reach their top speed"
20:47:20 <frosch123> what has that to do with the formula above?
20:48:26 <frosch123> what's the idea behind airdrag being affected by number of parts?
20:48:30 <frosch123> it is about the train length
20:48:37 <frosch123> or is it about the gaps between wagons?
20:48:58 <frosch123> one could replace the num_parts with either the real length, or with number of wagons (not counting artic parts)
20:49:38 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: yes, i think the reasoning is gaps between wagons
20:50:05 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: not counting articulated parts may make sense
20:50:23 <Eddi|zuHause> was this ever specified anywhere?
20:54:57 <frosch123> otoh, using multiple artic parts for a single wagon is a more modern usage of artic parts
20:55:11 <frosch123> it used to be multiple wagons which are just bought together
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21:00:48 <xaver> hi, how can i change via rcon the engine_renew setting
21:01:13 <frosch123> that's a company setting
21:01:35 <frosch123> you need to join a company, then change it via the normal settings gui
21:01:43 <frosch123> the server has no such setting
21:01:58 <frosch123> resp. none that would matter
21:05:24 <Eddi|zuHause> well, can the server join companies? :)
21:06:06 <Taede> [22:05:33] <@Taede> !rcon move 1 1
21:06:06 <Taede> [22:05:34] <Lestat> ERROR: Silly boy, you cannot move the server!
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21:22:09 <oskari892> "Assertion failed at line 672 of c\bamboo-agent-home\xml-data\build-dir\ottd-nightly-w64bit\src\widget_type.h: num >= 0
21:22:48 <oskari892> When clicking "object" button
21:23:54 <frosch123> there is likely a fix of that already on fs
21:23:58 <frosch123> just noone comitted it
21:24:24 <frosch123> i recall sbr posting a diff
21:25:46 <frosch123> i always plan to review all the bugs "tomorrow"
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22:01:21 <Eddi|zuHause> "industries already have a window, so buying them shouldn't be hard" is a very "promising" beginner's idea of how coding works :p
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23:12:26 <AndreasB> How come openttd.conf isnt saved when I do save_config
23:17:47 <FLHerne> AndreasB: openttd.cfg, surely?
23:19:07 <FLHerne> Would be better if I had any answers to the actual problem, wouldn't it? :L
23:20:05 <FLHerne> At least my poke would be useufl if you were mistakenly looking for the wrong filename
23:20:16 <FLHerne> __ln__'s is just pointless :P
23:20:46 <FLHerne> As opposed to almost certainly but not entirely pointless
23:21:17 <AndreasB> -rw-rw-r-- 1 andreas andreas 9979 Oct 5 19:12 openttd.cfg
23:21:24 <__ln__> FLHerne: well, the language on this channel should be english. not misspelled english.
23:21:28 <AndreasB> saved config in rcon
23:21:37 <AndreasB> Oct 6 01:13 openttd.cfg
23:22:15 <AndreasB> infrastructure_maintenance = false
23:22:53 <AndreasB> now it doesnt save again
23:23:16 <AndreasB> Sun Oct 6 01:15:45 CEST 2013
23:23:32 <AndreasB> I just set infrastructure to TRUE, and saved config
23:23:37 <AndreasB> its still false in cfg
23:24:17 <AndreasB> (Actually, dont do that.. would be bad)
23:24:27 <__ln__> AndreasB: please don't be impolite
23:26:13 <Supercheese> Just use an autohotkey script to automatically insert apostrophes
23:27:43 <Supercheese> i.e. I type "dont" and it converts it immediately to "don't"
23:28:04 <Supercheese> Sadly, it cannot cover the its/it's situation
23:28:36 <Supercheese> but that's just bad, it's the exact opposite of every other possessive case in the language, so it seems
23:29:28 <Supercheese> but eh, whatcha gonna do
23:32:12 <__ln__> using such a script sounds slightly cheating, but who cares, it produces readable and nice output. :)
23:45:49 <Eddi|zuHause> "dont" might be a valid word in french
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