IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-09-12
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00:28:18 <Djohaal> ok is there some way of telling OTTD to store the size I want for a window?
00:34:24 <glx> maybe something with ctrl
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08:33:20 <peter1138> Silly Windows. I turned my network printer on, and Windows says "Yay you have an HP LaserJet 5N at this IP, now pick a driver from this list..."
08:33:30 <peter1138> List does not contain model...
08:35:55 <peter1138> And HP's site, after filling in the fields to download the driver, says... Install the driver included in Windows 7. Right.
08:36:10 <peter1138> Yeah, in Linux it would be easy.
08:41:02 <peter1138> And after all that, the print out is fucked anyway :-(
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09:13:17 <peter1138> Hmm, yes, random play... normal music on at regular volume, go upstairs to deal with matters... LOUDEST THRASH HEAVY METAL plays and I can't do a thing about it... :p
09:21:28 <Eddi|zuHause> at least you're entertaining the neighbours :)
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13:53:16 <planetmaker> the return of the Pikka
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14:20:20 <peter1138> Hmm, I'm sure I had a patch to only get sprites for vehicles on screen...
14:20:54 <peter1138> Maybe it was slower...
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14:35:55 <DorpsGek> Commit by zuu :: r25759 /trunk/src (goal_gui.cpp story_gui.cpp) (2013-09-12 14:35:52 UTC)
14:35:56 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r25369): Set the owner flag of the goal and story windows
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14:36:59 <andythenorth> if I want train speed to be unlimited in nml, what value do I set for speed?
14:37:17 <peter1138> There is no unlimited.
14:37:21 <V453000> unlimited train speed? :D
14:38:12 <andythenorth> if I want wagons to have no speed limit, what value do I set for speed in nml?
14:38:33 <V453000> you just dont set speed for wagons
14:40:32 <V453000> rm rm, please dont tell me you want your wagons to have speed limits
14:41:03 <andythenorth> what's wrong with it?
14:41:17 <peter1138> It doesn't fit his style of play, therefore it's worthless.
14:44:38 <Pikka> mm, Wogan speed limits.
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14:47:11 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: Pikka was last seen in #openttd 2 minutes and 32 seconds ago: <Pikka> mm, Wogan speed limits.
14:47:51 <andythenorth> are you a working man again?
14:48:43 <Pikka> novel writing. going quite well.
14:49:02 <Pikka> hoping to have it vaguely done-ish by the end of the year. then I might go and get a job for a while to refill the coffers.
14:51:04 <andythenorth> ho that's pretty awesome
14:51:07 <andythenorth> everyone has a book inside them
14:51:20 * andythenorth wrote about 75k words of a bad novel 15 years ago
14:51:37 <andythenorth> what's it about? o_O
14:52:17 <Pikka> it's a political thriller set in queensland in the 1880s. railways are tangentially involved.
14:55:19 <V453000> I write fictional horrors, digital rails very involved :P
14:57:01 <andythenorth> V453000: so I ask how to remove speed limits, and you think I"m adding them...? :D
14:57:50 * planetmaker only wrote a few hundret words of bad poetry
14:58:23 * andythenorth wrote 30k lines of nfo :P
15:01:23 <V453000> I WAS AFRAID andythenorth :P
15:01:47 <Pikka> andythenorth, limit every wagon to 20km/h
15:02:08 <peter1138> DBSetXL with early wagons :D
15:02:16 <andythenorth> Pikka: so no newgrfs for you?
15:02:44 <Pikka> I reactivated the dreaded facebook the other day, and Dan started talking to me about IH
15:02:56 <Pikka> soo... perhaps newgrfs :)
15:03:19 <Pikka> I haven't played openttd for ages though, I'll have to have a go with cargodist and everything.
15:03:27 <andythenorth> the docs are not finished yet :P
15:04:15 <peter1138> OpenTTD... play... that'll be novel.
15:04:28 <juzza1> Zuu: can you help me a bit with musa? im trying to run it on windows, but getting "No magic header" after it starts packaging the files
15:04:44 <juzza1> im giving it four files, changelog, the grf itself, and two readme files
15:07:11 <Zuu> That error is raised by grfid.py when the .grf file doesn't confirm to some standard required.
15:07:55 <Zuu> I know close to zero about NewGRFs so I can't tell if there is a bug in grfid.py or if your input data is malformated.
15:08:13 <Zuu> But the error is caused by your .grf file not complying with a check in musa.
15:08:52 <Zuu> How did you create your .grf file?
15:12:25 <Zuu> Someone who knows NML/nfo/NewGRFs better than me will need to look at that python code to see if its broken with respect to recent nmlc.
15:13:31 <planetmaker> well... nmlc should not create invalid NewGRFs...
15:14:08 <Zuu> I mean, there may be a header version 3 that was created the last months or so ...
15:14:20 <planetmaker> at least not invalid enough that openttd barfs on it :D
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15:20:57 <planetmaker> andythenorth, I need another push by you :-P
15:20:58 <Rubidium> it's only like the middle of the night over there, right?
15:21:39 <andythenorth> Rubidium: could be :)
15:22:18 <planetmaker> built failed. Due to ... messed-up post-built script on CF. And I want to check the modification I made ;-)
15:22:37 <planetmaker> well. built didn't fail. Publishing did
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15:25:47 <andythenorth> any specific project?
15:25:49 <andythenorth> about to push IH
15:26:05 <planetmaker> nah, any is fine :-)
15:26:15 <planetmaker> actually I totally have the option to manually trigger builds :D
15:34:51 <andythenorth> DanMacK: remind me, 2 generations of wagons, then maglev?
15:34:57 <andythenorth> or 3 generations?
15:35:25 <DanMacK> 3 if you include the "early" set, but the base set has 2
15:35:44 <andythenorth> it's all in one codebase, so let's say 3
15:36:01 <andythenorth> so gen 1 and gen 2 have speed limits in that case, and gen 3 is unlimited?
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15:41:57 <andythenorth> gen 0 for early? :P
15:42:25 <andythenorth> I'll leave it alone for now
15:42:26 <DanMacK> yeah that works, because the "early" I was thinking a separate grf
15:42:46 <andythenorth> it would probably all be in one codebase, just generate multiple grfs from it
15:42:58 <andythenorth> remind me about gen_0 another time :P
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16:29:18 <Djohaal> how do I disable the stock vehicles from openGFX?
16:29:38 <Djohaal> I'm getting some issues with packs such as aviators airplanes, because then I have like the concorde and the yate haugan
16:30:08 <Pinkbeast> Huh. Normally I expect the stock vehicles to be disabled by default if a vehicle GRF is loaded...
16:31:37 <Djohaal> welp I'm getting some weirdness then, duplicate airplanes and ships (I have FISH pack too, got two MPS passenger haulers)
16:32:01 <Djohaal> I'm on a nightly build, could that be the cause?
16:32:35 <Pinkbeast> Djohaal: Worth loading the same GRFs into a release and seeing what happens.
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16:33:58 <Djohaal> yate haugan AND concorde
16:34:13 <Djohaal> and two MPS pax ferries
16:38:23 <Pinkbeast> Djohaal: This is out of my depth. I think disabling default vehicles is a function of the newgrf, but... dunno guv
16:49:22 <juzza1> it should be. some other grf might be forcing them on, though
16:49:39 <juzza1> or wait... that shouldn't happen
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16:50:40 <juzza1> yep, disregard what i said
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17:19:38 <DanMacK> not bad, on my way out :P
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17:45:12 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25760 trunk/src/lang/indonesian.txt (2013-09-12 17:45:08 UTC)
17:45:13 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:14 <DorpsGek> indonesian - 2 changes by UseYourIllusion
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21:23:19 <Djohaal> advice for balancing a game without inflation?
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21:24:44 <Supercheese> infrastructure maintenance?
21:25:44 <Supercheese> I think it was written to fill that niche, even
21:25:56 <Supercheese> OTTD inflation mechanic is notoriously broken
21:32:02 <Djohaal> plus I can toggle it in and out
21:32:16 <Rubidium> Supercheese: how is it notoriously broken?
21:33:27 <Supercheese> (and the rest of that thread)
21:35:55 <Rubidium> maybe your sarcasm detector isn't working ;)
21:36:13 <Bad_Brett> hmm... i don't really like stuff like super high inflation, higher taxes, maintainance cost etc. those are just simple penalties for doing too good
21:36:17 <Supercheese> Well, pikka's posts, then
21:37:26 <Bad_Brett> i would like to see a patch where the transport system needs constant tweaking instead
21:38:08 <Rubidium> Supercheese: that problem also happens with inflation disabled
21:39:00 <Rubidium> if I start in 1850, then by the time I'm in 1920 I have such a load of money that the high "initial" prices for vehicles to make a game in 1920 relatively hard to start are obnoxiously cheap
21:39:25 <Rubidium> but you can't increase the prices, because then you can't build them when you start in 1920
21:39:52 <Supercheese> Well, wasn't infra maintenance designed to counter the "load of money" syndrome?
21:41:14 <Rubidium> it doesn't solve that problem
21:41:24 <Rubidium> it makes it marginally harder to reach
21:43:34 <Supercheese> can't grfs alter maintenance costs? There could be more room for "balancing" there
21:43:38 <Djohaal> Bad_Brett: it's just it is too easy for me
21:44:09 <Djohaal> seems like the other players in my server are doing fine with that difficulty. but I am a seasoned simutrans player, so yeah quite economic-savvy
21:44:29 <Supercheese> I don't recall see any grf specifically designed to alter maintenance costs, although Av8 changes airports'
21:44:45 <Rubidium> Supercheese: they can... but they can't scale the amount based on the amount of money a company has
21:45:04 <Bad_Brett> my point is that it's a very common game design mistake to penalize players for doing to well
21:45:18 <Bad_Brett> there are other, better ways to make a game hard
21:45:22 <Rubidium> so, either you make it so huge that you can't get started, or it isn't high enough to prevent (eventual) infinite amounts of money
21:45:41 <Djohaal> simutrans maanged to figure out a difficulty solution that is universally difficult
21:45:49 <Djohaal> even if you are doing quite well a badly set up line can bring you ruin
21:46:09 <Djohaal> their early game is a bit more difficult than average, but the game keeps pressure troughout most of the duration
21:46:29 <oskari89> You can ruin yourself by bad line design, by using basecosts
21:46:43 <oskari89> And raising the rail/road/etc maintenance
21:46:51 <Bad_Brett> only in the beginning
21:47:22 <Bad_Brett> rail maintenance sounds good though
21:47:51 <oskari89> Raise it 128x, you will notice
21:48:02 <oskari89> Or maybe 64x for beginning
21:48:55 <oskari89> It will eat your profits efficently if you build a large network with just few trains
21:49:12 <Djohaal> is basecost universally compatible?
21:49:18 <Bad_Brett> yeah, that doesn't sound bad at all
21:49:21 <Djohaal> because I use a huge mish-mash of GRFs
21:49:38 <oskari89> Basecost is universally compatible, grab it from BaNaNas
21:50:15 <Bad_Brett> the thing about rail maintenance is that it doesn't punish you just because you're rich
21:50:41 <oskari89> Yeah, it punishes you if you have too small or too large network
21:50:53 <oskari89> With too much or too less trains
21:51:02 <Bad_Brett> and i can imagine that gridlocks can really hurt the business
21:51:34 <oskari89> Yeah, they _do_ bring down profits if you have a main line running nearly everything or so
21:51:49 <oskari89> Few times that has appened
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21:53:14 <Bad_Brett> i have to try it then
21:53:26 <oskari89> Try it with different cost factors
21:53:43 <Bad_Brett> i'm looking for good ways to make my scenario more challenging
21:53:53 <oskari89> Train running cost factor is one way too
21:54:27 <Bad_Brett> another good thing about about rail maintenence
21:54:49 <Bad_Brett> is that rivers can become quite important
21:55:09 <Bad_Brett> i really like this idea
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23:08:06 <Eddi|zuHause> am i stupid or blind or is MB just talking in too riddly riddles?
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