IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-09-10
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00:02:51 <juzza1> fonts can be resized, there is a newgrf for bigger GUI
00:03:09 <juzza1> so i'd say it's already a thing
00:04:00 <juzza1> search for opengfx biggui if you are interested
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00:10:05 <Djohaal> yup, it makes buttons bigger, but the font still is abysmally tiny in some places
00:10:11 <juzza1> but the value range might be a bit awkward to work with :D
00:10:14 <Djohaal> inb4, is it possible to toggle bigGUI on different clients?
00:16:15 <Bad_Brett> juzza1: can't i do something like this: mod(animation_counter,16)
00:17:39 <Bad_Brett> should guarantee me a nice 0..15 range, right?
00:21:49 <juzza1> yes, thats a good idea
00:28:09 <planetmaker> you guys should read the specs... the nml specs
00:30:00 <planetmaker> obviously not on value range of motion_counter
00:30:17 <Bad_Brett> no, not motion_counter... animation_counter
00:30:45 <Bad_Brett> animation_counter 0 .. 65535 Increased by 1 each tick
00:32:12 <planetmaker> animation_counter... where is that in the specs, I don't find it
00:33:12 <Bad_Brett> do you think it can be used?
00:33:25 <planetmaker> seems so. Depends for what
00:33:30 <planetmaker> for vehicle motion: no
00:33:30 <Bad_Brett> things like loading/unloading
00:33:52 <planetmaker> loading / unloading: possibly.
00:34:22 <Bad_Brett> yeah, i'm gonna run some tests later :-)
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00:37:55 <Bad_Brett> the modulo operator is %, right?
00:38:46 <planetmaker> I'm still waiting for a push to the repo, though :D
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00:39:32 <Bad_Brett> i've been working on that for three days straight now :-)
00:40:43 <Bad_Brett> the project has grown so large that it's gotten out of hand, so i'm rewriting a lot of the code so that pnml files will be generated as well (FIRS style)
00:41:19 <planetmaker> Bad_Brett: start the repo FIRST. then re-write
00:41:35 <planetmaker> that's where the use of the repo will come in handy. not afterwards. before and during
00:42:13 <planetmaker> a repo is not a 'release nice stuff' thing. It's a 'here I work' thing.
00:42:47 <Bad_Brett> yeah i know, but i see no point in cloning 20000 files that will never be used ;-)
00:43:38 <planetmaker> ... you generate the grf by some means *now*. And these means. they are what the repo should start with...
00:44:01 <Bad_Brett> alright, alright :-)
00:44:08 <planetmaker> doesn't matter if you deprecate 95% of that in the first 100 commits
00:45:27 <Bad_Brett> also, i would like to remove all mysql connections from the code ;-)
00:47:54 <Bad_Brett> but i'm gonna cloning the "new" folder i'm working in
00:48:00 <Bad_Brett> se we can see if it works
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12:26:53 <DorpsGek> oskari89: ChillCore was last seen in #openttd 29 weeks, 3 days, 12 hours, 45 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <chillcore> good night planetmaker and everybody else.
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12:43:35 <dihedral> is there a way to identify one game from another? for a bot?
12:44:26 <dihedral> assuming a bot stores data in a mysql database, is there a possibility of differentiating between two games - potentially even 2 games loaded from an scn?
12:49:37 <V453000> you could check for which savegame is loaded I suppose
12:49:53 <V453000> or vehicle counts or similar things?
12:51:09 <dihedral> vehicle numbers can change constantly in an active game ;-)
12:51:41 <V453000> of course but they generally only increase, new game = decrease to 0-ish
12:52:04 <V453000> or simply check for game year?
12:57:14 <dihedral> V453000, load from savegame, load scn, ...
12:57:26 <dihedral> run a game on the same seed ...
12:58:21 <dihedral> i could set an alias, which would only get reset if the server was restarted, not if a new game was started which does not help too much either
12:59:18 <V453000> what do you want to achieve in the first place?
12:59:24 <V453000> bot which informs people about new game? or?
13:00:56 <dihedral> i want to be able to store statistics related to a single game and thus need to be able to differentiate between games, or recognize same games on multiple connects
13:01:43 <V453000> well we set !gamenr between games, would depend on server I suppose
13:01:59 <V453000> which then creates a new log with the appropriate number
13:02:11 <V453000> then it is easy to grep some statistics from that log I suppose
13:07:15 <dihedral> but that sets it in the bot, i was hoping to identify it :-P
13:08:28 <dihedral> peter1138, are you sure you do not have a patch for that somewhere?
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13:35:19 <Bad_Brett> ...goodbye danmack :D
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14:50:08 <Rubidium> dihedral: date + random? ;)
14:50:35 <Rubidium> after all, you don't know whether it has branched into another game at a specific point
14:50:56 <Rubidium> e.g. loading an autosave after a power outage
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15:35:26 <Djohaal> how do I make a "wait for full load or X days" order?
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15:57:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Djohaal: "full load" always overrides the waiting time. you cannot make a vehicle leave early if it is full
15:58:09 <Djohaal> simutrans does max waiting time, works like a charm, and really helps with not having your chains clog up
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16:01:07 <Pinkbeast> Also "leave if another vehicle arrives (insert criteria about same orders, same cargo etc)"
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16:36:41 <Djohaal> ok wtf is going on with my ECS vectors. Sandpits are completely missing
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17:09:35 <Alberth> it seems you have made sufficient PR just by opening a topic :D
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17:26:01 <Miauw> A station two squares away from an oil refinery.
17:26:09 <Miauw> Yet the station doesn't accept oil?
17:26:30 <Miauw> For whatever reason it needs to be closer
17:28:52 <TinoDidriksen> The capture area needs to overlap specific areas of the industry, unless that's been fixed.
17:29:11 <Pinkbeast> Miauw: Just add a tile of station and walk it across?
17:29:12 <Miauw> I'm not playing the nightly build, so...
17:29:23 <Pinkbeast> Walking stations is cheesy, but you didn't do it deliberately...
17:29:31 <Miauw> I just moved the station a few tiles
17:30:03 <glx> only 2 tiles of the refinery accept oil IIRC
17:33:14 <Alberth> indeed, you need to build a station at the right end of the refinery
17:33:19 <Miauw> Also, how is it that even when I have one train in a station next to a producer all the time, the % transported still isn't 100?
17:33:38 <Miauw> Also, I managed to build it at the wrong end by squeezing it against it
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17:40:47 <Miauw> I shouldn't mess with the city size modifier ;_;
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17:41:38 <Pinkbeast> Miauw: % transported depends on station rating not physical presence of trains to put it in (except inasmuch as the latter informs rating)
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17:44:12 <Pinkbeast> In practice for an ordinary producer having one vehicle waiting at all times is the best approach.
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18:45:45 <andythenorth> could a grf assign sets of vehicles per-company in MP?
18:47:18 * Alberth is flabbergasted about the question
18:47:29 <V453000> I think sprites can change based on company
18:47:33 <V453000> but the feature sounds wtf
18:47:34 <Supercheese> might have to abuse unexposed variables or something
18:48:20 <andythenorth> in original warcraft, one player has orcs and the other humans
18:49:03 <V453000> in openttd people kinda often play in 1 company too :D
18:49:44 <andythenorth> V453000: that's why I suggested company not player
18:49:51 <andythenorth> player would be....difficult :x
18:49:59 <frosch123> sounds more like a gs task
18:50:07 <V453000> yes but if you have One company in the whole game, newGRF is used only partially?
18:50:34 <andythenorth> you only get a subset of the grf anyway
18:51:14 <V453000> I would consider that broken
18:51:29 <V453000> what if I play single player but want to use vehicles from company 3?
18:51:42 <andythenorth> that's not the design
18:51:52 <V453000> that is waste of time on sprites imo
18:52:00 <andythenorth> it's the same as Pikka with 10CC, only it's 20CC :P
18:52:03 <V453000> better randomize them to make it look nice
18:52:13 <andythenorth> most sets have way too much stuff
18:52:21 <V453000> most sets are dumb, too
18:52:29 <andythenorth> the default solution is just to lock each set of vehicles to a climate
18:52:32 <V453000> I wouldnt expect you to make one of the most
18:52:50 <andythenorth> climate decides vehicles, no parameters, end of discussion? :P
18:52:58 <andythenorth> just wondered about more interesting options
18:53:22 <V453000> I prefer having all vehicles everywhere, least confusing
18:54:33 <V453000> but other than that it is probably the most sensible way to make such "separation"
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20:51:42 <imachine> is it possible to have openttd server automatically restart at certain date?
20:51:59 <imachine> like, the game lasts say untill year 3000 then resets back.
20:52:31 <V453000> there is some setting for that
20:53:54 <imachine> ok, I think I got it.
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21:02:06 <Djohaal> were fences removed in the latest openGFR?
21:02:56 <Djohaal> (railroad fences that is)
21:03:09 <andythenorth> did you turn off fences?
21:03:20 <andythenorth> it's an option somewhere
21:03:21 <Chrill> that often does the trick, andythenorth ;)
21:03:27 <Pinkbeast> Djohaal: _just_ got openGFX?
21:03:45 <Djohaal> and then suddenly, no more fences
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21:08:44 <Djohaal> Pinkbeast: this is how they look atm, I reckon they didn't look that "cartoony" before
21:09:12 <Supercheese> Looks like you have OGFX+ Landscape
21:09:25 <Supercheese> check its parameters to see if it has disabled fences
21:10:54 <Djohaal> provide groundsprites: on
21:10:59 <Djohaal> provide field sprites: on
21:11:08 <Djohaal> that is about it (sorry for the spam, herp)
21:11:23 <Supercheese> or fence parameter rather
21:12:28 <Supercheese> I seem to be misremembering
21:12:54 <Djohaal> could it be the industrial renewal pack? :S
21:13:15 <Supercheese> any other grfs activated?
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21:13:31 <Supercheese> any one of them could be disabing fences, potentially
21:13:32 <Djohaal> a whole bunch of them, but the bizarre thing is that other users report their rails are fine in the server
21:13:46 <Supercheese> oh, well then maybe it's that detail option stuff
21:14:23 <Supercheese> "full detail", although you may have already checked that
21:14:32 <Supercheese> options menu, the spanner/wrench icon
21:15:08 <Djohaal> I.. I didn't even realize it had that option
21:15:14 <Djohaal> silly fat fingers, must have clicked it by accident
21:15:15 <Supercheese> was it by chance unchecked?
21:15:22 <Supercheese> righto, problem solved
21:16:17 <Djohaal> I discover a new thing about OTTD every day
21:21:48 <Djohaal> also somebody mentioned there's a "leave the station if another train arrives" option for orders. is that a timetable or orders thing?
21:22:04 <Chrill> sounds like an option from RCT
21:22:16 <Chrill> afaik, its not in "vanilla" ottd
21:22:35 <Pinkbeast> Djohaal: I'm afraid I mentioned that in a wishlisty way. It was in the MiniIN many years ago? One patchpack, anyway.
21:22:36 <Djohaal> because I have problems with waiting trains piling up on stations, and trying to figure out the best solution
21:23:13 <Pinkbeast> Djohaal: Where do the loads come from? Primary industries?
21:23:51 <Pinkbeast> The kind that gob up a big load every time a delivery comes in?
21:25:20 <Pinkbeast> Djohaal: No idea; I just mean, is it the sort of implementation where the secondary gets an input delivery and spits out output almost instantly, in a big clump?
21:25:55 <Djohaal> more like a very slow input because I'm running those slowass trains from 1800's :p
21:26:17 <Pinkbeast> I tend to resort to more loading platforms
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21:26:40 <Djohaal> well that's the solution I was seeking to avoid :p
21:27:06 <Djohaal> also is there some setting to enforce that all cars/trains/trucks/ships/llamas have auto-refit as default?
21:27:20 <Pinkbeast> Yes, in the options
21:27:27 <Djohaal> non auto refitting stuff is such a hassle, and cargodist is all about running cross connections
21:27:42 <Supercheese> Autorefit must be enabled in the grf
21:27:54 <Supercheese> you can't change autorefit-ability without changing the grf
21:28:01 <Pinkbeast> Oh, wait, autorefit not autorenew, don't listen to me.
21:28:37 <Pinkbeast> The trouble with using autorefit, I find, is there is no sensible way to give a "load at A, unload B, load at C, unload at D" order that full loads at whichever of A or C produces more goods
21:29:03 <Djohaal> I was happy because the standard carriage from the british rail expansion auto refits, so I had it switching from oil to oil products and hauling the products back
21:29:14 <Djohaal> then the six-wheel oil tank from it doesn't auto refit :p
21:29:30 <Pinkbeast> ... and to anticipate the obvious reply, if the A/C production fluctuates, I mean.
21:29:51 <Pinkbeast> Djohaal: Is that UKRS or UKRS2 or BROS or... ?
21:30:23 <Djohaal> BROS.. gotta love these acronyms :p
21:30:29 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: how about "My little unicorn"? :p
21:30:39 <Pinkbeast> I tend to use 2cc with UKRS2 to patch over holes like the lack of a livestock wagon after 194something
21:31:03 <Djohaal> nah we have vehicles never expiring
21:31:07 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: ho ho :)
21:31:21 <Djohaal> just for the quaint ability of running those explosive horse carriages in the 2040's
21:31:33 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> could a grf assign sets of vehicles per-company in MP? <-- we discussed that already with pikka's idea. the game has all the infrastructure but no way to access it
21:31:43 <Pinkbeast> Djohaal: Yeah, but those 45mph pre-war livestock vans aren't a good fit with 90mph goods
21:31:59 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: this is basically pikka's idea, reduxed
21:32:06 <andythenorth> I can't remember the outcome though :)
21:32:12 <Pinkbeast> UKRS1 put livestock into tanks as "pretend it's milk" :-)
21:32:20 <Djohaal> Pinkbeast: thanks for the heads-up i'll keep that in note for next patch
21:32:39 <Eddi|zuHause> the outcome is "nobody bothered"
21:33:03 <Djohaal> liquid livestock tanks. Well you could haul chicken eggs
21:33:11 <Djohaal> that ls liquid chicken no? :p
21:33:30 <Pinkbeast> Djohaal: Well, this only works in MP if people either want to play with 2cc+UKRS2 or respect a convention that you don't use 2cc vehicles unless unavoidable
21:34:31 <Pinkbeast> Djohaal: Not so much that as "if you wanted to play with UKRS2 and just patch over a few holes, people have to do that".
21:34:50 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the game currently only uses the values "no company", "one company" and "all companies", but theoretically any bitmask could be set
21:35:23 <Eddi|zuHause> it is already a bitmask, but there is no way to set/unset individual bits
21:35:23 <andythenorth> do we think it's wise?
21:35:33 <Pinkbeast> With a more comprehensive UK set (ho ho) a four way GWR/LNER/LMS/SR game could be quite jolly
21:35:35 <andythenorth> or is it a cluster f*ck waiting to happen? :)
21:35:49 <andythenorth> Pinkbeast: what is a 'more comprehensive UK set'? o_O
21:36:05 <Djohaal> hmm a more technical aspect of the routing system.. do stations have a built in path signal for train release purposes?
21:36:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't say anything about "wise", the main problem is "how to provide the choice to the player"
21:36:40 <andythenorth> see, I anticipated the server owner setting the rule, but I kind of hate that
21:36:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Djohaal: no, but when a train turns around, he waits for a free path
21:36:50 <andythenorth> I'd rather it was a selection for the company
21:36:56 <andythenorth> by the players in the company
21:37:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Djohaal: so effectively for dead-end stations you don't need signals
21:37:32 <Eddi|zuHause> but for through-stations you do, otherwise a train waiting in the station blocks the exit
21:37:35 <Pinkbeast> andythenorth: Well, one where in any given year pre-unification any of the Big Four would have a meaningful choice of rolling stock to make
21:38:02 <Pinkbeast> ... I'm not sure OTTD really represents choices at that level
21:38:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Pinkbeast: you mean CETS just for UK :)
21:39:19 <andythenorth> it's kind of the inverse of my current goal :)
21:39:22 <Pinkbeast> Eddi|zuHause: Or the sort of level of comprehensiveness BROS aims for, yes.
21:39:29 <Eddi|zuHause> the eternal-british-based-set-formerly-known-as-bros-but-now-using-the-CETS-mechanism might do that
21:40:04 <Pinkbeast> andythenorth: I don't personally think the new-Pikka "minimal set" is at all compatible with "distributed to companies"
21:40:26 <Supercheese> I thought that was Pikka's design intention...?
21:40:46 <Eddi|zuHause> Pinkbeast: well pikka's idea was that each company gets a different "minimal set"
21:41:12 <Eddi|zuHause> with each having slightly different focus
21:41:29 <Eddi|zuHause> (max speed, stronger, cheaper, ...)
21:42:45 <andythenorth> a direction I applaud :)
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23:44:12 <Djohaal> this textile mill is bork
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