IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-09-06
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10:28:41 <oskari89> Someone could update that diagonal levelling and clearing, since it's on trunk
10:29:19 <peter1138> Yeah, someone could.
10:31:40 <alluke> does anybody know what causes this in spring 2013 patchpack?
10:32:00 <planetmaker> oskari89, wiki anyone?
10:32:37 <planetmaker> If no-one does what anyone could do because everyone thinks that someone would do, it won't be done
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10:35:02 <planetmaker> oskari89, it generally is totally pointless to ask that someone should update a wiki page if you know yourself what should be done. You know. Then do it
10:35:14 <planetmaker> after all you had the time to "complain" here. Better spent fixing
10:38:04 <oskari89> Hmm, could do that :)
10:42:08 <peter1138> alluke really doesn't want people to click on his images.
10:42:44 <alluke> do people lurk this on work or what
10:43:23 <peter1138> 1) Many people are at work, yes.
10:43:33 <peter1138> 2) Nobody here is involved with this patch pack.
10:43:47 <alluke> i think they should do their work insead of wasting their time here
10:44:00 <alluke> i wouldnt be so sure about the 2)
10:46:06 <Eddi|zuHause> there is very little overlap between our community here and the russian community
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10:59:27 <Xaroth|Work> alluke: I might be online, but that doesn't mean I'm not working
11:00:21 <Xaroth|Work> the fact out of 114 people, only a handfull talked to you, does not mean the other 109 are constantly watching their screen afraid to talk
11:00:33 <Xaroth|Work> it means the other 109 are probably not around, doing other (more important) things
11:05:09 <LordAro> or just can't be bothered to reply to you ;)
11:15:55 <Rubidium> luckily miham isn't here... his bouncer from his previous job still joins occasionally (possibly reboot of the server it runs on)
11:17:41 <LordAro> heh, the legacy of past employees :)
11:24:55 <oskari89> Is there any documentation of "story book patch" ?
11:26:11 <oskari89> Nevermind, found out already :P
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13:09:16 <jonty-comp> "wtf you cant make trains with a blender, you use a 3d program like opengl"
13:09:21 <jonty-comp> forum post of the week
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13:21:00 <LordAro> jonty-comp/peter1138: can i get a link?
13:23:14 <planetmaker> wanna try get one part maybe in a repo so that we can see how it goes? maybe starting with an engine?
13:23:39 <Bad_Brett> yeah, i was going to ask you to activate my account
13:23:46 <Bad_Brett> because i still haven't got that e-mail
13:24:18 <planetmaker> I activated it, yes. We had some issue with the e-mailer there
13:25:05 <planetmaker> Today I've two hours from now on
13:27:11 <planetmaker> given the size of stuff etc, I think it makes sense make a few separate NewGRFs which are easily combined?
13:27:35 <Bad_Brett> yeah, that's how i do it right now
13:27:50 <planetmaker> with what to start? engines? ground?
13:27:57 <Bad_Brett> one for the landscape, one for towns, one for industries and so on
13:28:34 <Bad_Brett> maybe the engines? those are the ones that will require most work and most fine-tuning
13:29:13 <planetmaker> how does goldrush-trains as name (for URL purposes) sound?
13:30:38 <peter1138> Separate vehicle NewGRFs?
13:30:47 <juzza1> that thread was very amusing to read
13:31:47 <Bad_Brett> oh, the project is already up? that was quick :-)
13:32:38 <LordAro> peter1138: i find it amusing how the top result for "lacognia" is that thread :D
13:33:46 <Bad_Brett> should i set user rights?
13:34:23 <LordAro> the "I'm an old timer!" thread is starting to get amusing too
13:35:12 <planetmaker> Bad_Brett, what user rights?
13:36:21 <planetmaker> easiest way is to clone that empty repository and starting to add stuff there
13:36:40 <Bad_Brett> i don't know... this will take some time getting used to ;-)
13:36:57 <LordAro> welcome to the lovely fluffy world of VCSs :)
13:37:24 <Bad_Brett> i'm reading the guide right now
13:37:30 <planetmaker> Bad_Brett, should I... try to setup a dummy newgrf therein?
13:37:47 <Bad_Brett> yeah, that would be helpful i think
13:37:54 <planetmaker> like prepare for building so that only code + graphics need adding? Ok
13:45:17 <LordAro> should come by default :p
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13:46:04 <planetmaker> any grfID, Bad_Brett ?
13:46:30 <planetmaker> or just like... "gr\0\0"?
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13:47:24 <planetmaker> LordAro, but we need more than one :-)
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14:00:12 <planetmaker> so, there we go. Pre-configured NewGRF within the repo. But a bit... void of content :D
14:02:46 <Bad_Brett> hmm, i've got to do some modifications to get this to work i believe
14:02:52 <Belugas> Bonjour planetmaker :)
14:03:01 <Belugas> Have you tried the 50mm yet?
14:03:05 <planetmaker> how do you currently build it, Bad_Brett ?
14:03:50 <planetmaker> if you have a single nml file, we can also start there
14:04:20 <Bad_Brett> yeah, currently i'm generating one big nml file
14:04:28 <planetmaker> (though I'd like to change that later on, but... that's no issue at all to change later)
14:05:25 <planetmaker> Bad_Brett, if you name the single nml file goldrush-trains.nml in the main directory of the repo, then it will work, too
14:05:34 <Bad_Brett> yeah, my goldrush editor creates it automatically
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14:05:44 <Bad_Brett> i'll try that first
14:05:54 <planetmaker> uh... how does it 'create' it?
14:06:15 <planetmaker> there's no editor which automaticalyl creates NML files ;-)
14:06:39 <Bad_Brett> yes there is, because i programmed it ;-)
14:07:01 <planetmaker> then it should be part of the repo... kinda
14:07:26 <Bad_Brett> ...it's written in matlab
14:07:49 <Bad_Brett> i'm a mechanical engineer, not a programmer
14:08:48 <planetmaker> well, even when devzone doesn't use it, it makes sense to add it. And its output the nml file. so that devzone can also build it
14:09:21 <planetmaker> and it would give for instance me an idea on how you generate it
14:09:52 <Bad_Brett> i'm gonna give you a heart attack when you see my coding style
14:18:14 <planetmaker> Bad_Brett, I'm not too concerned. I've a bit of history with re-structuring NewGRF code ;-)
14:18:20 <planetmaker> or better said, grf code
14:19:52 <peter1138> I've been known to write some terrible C :D
14:30:46 <Bad_Brett> i just write a new function when i need it... pick random variables for loops
14:31:01 <Bad_Brett> everything's a mess
14:32:40 <planetmaker> well. Don't be shy :-)
14:32:55 <planetmaker> I can only make suggestions if I actually know to what end
14:33:53 <planetmaker> so, what I'd suggest: the nml file as goldrush-trains.nml. the required graphics to build it (and in folders as needed so that it builds). And the generator
14:35:35 <Bad_Brett> the generator consists of maybe 100 different function files and only a few of them are connected to the trains
14:35:53 <Bad_Brett> should i just upload the function file that generates the nml file?
14:36:40 <planetmaker> could it run on its own (provided I throw it in matlab here)?
14:37:03 <planetmaker> let's assume I have access to a matlab license then :D
14:38:56 <Bad_Brett> in theory, it could be compiled so that you only need the matlab compiler runtime to run it
14:39:24 <Bad_Brett> but if you have matlab, i could upload the entire thing
14:39:38 <planetmaker> it's as much effort for me as to install it
14:40:05 <planetmaker> it's licensed to the whole university
14:41:14 <Bad_Brett> even though it may seem as an odd choice to develop game mods in, it does have some advantages over C++ i would say
14:42:52 <Bad_Brett> although it's a 100 times slower :D
14:47:35 <Bad_Brett> i've got to organize a lot of files and folders, so it will probably take a couple of days to get things up and running
14:48:24 <planetmaker> uh, can't you build it localy now?
14:50:15 <Bad_Brett> yeah, but i've got tons of outdated stuff in the folders that should be removed first
14:53:11 <Bad_Brett> i think it will save time in the end
14:53:33 <planetmaker> what can help: add stuff you think is needed (and be conservative). Build. Add stuff it barfs on. Rinse and repeat until it builds
14:53:56 <planetmaker> then you have only added the stuff to that checkout which is needed
14:54:45 <planetmaker> but as it's your stuff, you should be good at making educated guesses :-)
15:00:26 <Bad_Brett> thanks, i guess :-)
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17:02:49 <Bad_Brett> does anyone know if this has been discussed since february?
17:03:01 <Bad_Brett> because it annoys me as well
17:08:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i agree with frosch123 that this is probably platform dependent, and thus should not be tried to be fixed by the newgrf
17:17:00 <Miauw> I think that funding new roads is actually a way to fuck over your opponents instead of helping the town grow faster;
17:18:56 <Alberth> the easiest solution to that is not to play against others :p
17:19:22 <Miauw> But I tought "Oh, I think I'll help this town grow faster"
17:19:37 <Miauw> And now I have to wait to set up my good transport line :c
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17:21:21 <Alberth> too many trees removed?
17:21:33 <Miauw> I just wanted this town to expand faster.
17:21:41 <Miauw> The top is kinda sliced off by a passenger railroad.
17:22:12 <Miauw> I'm new to this game :P
17:22:55 <Alberth> well, you've more experience transporting pax than I have, I think :)
17:23:18 <Alberth> I never do passengers transport, I play only industrial transports
17:23:53 <Miauw> I'm just doing passenger transport because it's fun.
17:23:57 <Miauw> And I just found this game last week, so
17:24:39 <Alberth> oh, so you've a lot to experiment and explore :)
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17:28:16 <peter1138> Yeah, funding new roads does not help you at all.
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17:38:16 <SamanthaD> hey Wolf01! how's it going?
17:41:53 <Wolf01> I just finished 8 hourd @ work and 45 minutes of car trip
17:53:39 <Miauw> Is there any way to quickly jump to a specific order?
17:55:23 <Wolf01> automatically or via the skip order button?
17:56:05 <Miauw> As in, I've got this truck that's stopped with 70 orders and I want to jump to order 45
17:56:57 <Miauw> I have too many bus stations.
17:57:51 <Miauw> It's mostly a loop but with slightly different orders.
17:58:06 <Miauw> BEcause I have a few lower-priority stations and multiple stations in one city etc.
17:59:17 <Alberth> perhjaps you can make a few groups of buses, where a group visits only (relative) few stations?
17:59:47 <Miauw_> Why does that keep happening.
17:59:55 <Miauw_> I have to switch networks or IRC just stops working for no reason.
18:00:43 <Alberth> oh that, your ISP connection is not entirely stable
18:01:04 <Alberth> there is a trade-off between speed and stability, and most providers choose speed then
18:01:35 <Alberth> which is fine for browsing, but less good for long-time connections like IRC
18:02:36 <Miauw_> And it's been happening since a few days ago.
18:03:08 <Miauw_> I get disconnected and it's unable to find the irc server
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18:12:43 <Miauw> Apparently this town hates me.
18:12:49 <Miauw> Despite me not ever having done anything near it.
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20:33:16 <andythenorth> so how many levels of class inheritance in python before it gets silly?
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20:33:56 <Rubidium> andythenorth: about 10?
20:34:14 <scshunt> there, I just made it silly so you can make it as deep as you'd like
20:34:16 <andythenorth> Train -> Engine -> Articulated -> Diesel
20:34:22 <andythenorth> seems like to many
20:34:33 <andythenorth> like using inheritance just to show I know about it :P
20:35:04 <scshunt> that's a bad inheritance hierarchy
20:35:10 <Alberth> it's natural to mess with the number of levels until you find out what works :)
20:35:13 <scshunt> what if you have a non-articulated diesel engine?
20:35:21 <andythenorth> Train -> Engine -> Diesel
20:35:54 <andythenorth> Diesel is probably just a mixin
20:35:59 <andythenorth> articulated probably isn't
20:35:59 <Rubidium> Animalia -> Chordata -> Mammalia -> Primates -> Hominidae -> Homonini -> Homo -> Homo sapiens -> Homo sapiens sapiens
20:36:00 <Alberth> anything common between Train->Engine and Train->NotEngine ?
20:36:09 <andythenorth> Alberth: logically yes
20:36:15 <andythenorth> practically I think not
20:36:21 <andythenorth> I'd have to duplicate a bit of code
20:36:27 <andythenorth> violates Don't Repeat Yourself
20:36:34 <andythenorth> but flat > nested
20:36:55 <andythenorth> I'd rather just do TrainEngine -> Articulated -> Diesel
20:36:56 <Alberth> the sweet spot is somewhere in the middle
20:37:02 <andythenorth> an TrainWagon -> Boxcar
20:38:02 <andythenorth> if I have to search through too many super() statements to find a property or method, it's tedious
20:39:27 <Alberth> it's a sign you're over-engineering things :)
20:43:57 <scshunt> the question to as yo[BI'd ask how much an gengine is actually different from a wagon
20:47:16 <andythenorth> who codes trains?
20:47:31 <andythenorth> afaik an engine is same as a wagon, except powered
20:47:36 * andythenorth should go read the spec :P
20:47:56 <Alberth> it's easy, even I managed :)
20:48:43 <andythenorth> Alberth: do you want to mangle the rest of FISH to make the code for Iron Horse?
20:48:51 <andythenorth> I am 30% done :P
20:50:12 <andythenorth> what differences are there between engine and wagon?
20:50:20 <andythenorth> when coding newgrf?
20:50:43 <andythenorth> I could just define train
20:50:48 <andythenorth> and mixin for power
20:51:13 <Eddi|zuHause> or you could just make it a parameter of __init__?
20:51:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i just read the properties from the table
20:51:53 <Eddi|zuHause> it says Steam/Diesel/Wagon
20:52:08 <andythenorth> ok thanks I'll think on
20:54:07 <Eddi|zuHause> PS: my generator is not object oriented (mostly)
20:54:55 <Alberth> andy can fix that for you :)
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