IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-09-05
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00:01:46 <rutine> i have a problem playing openttd. i can't play multiplayer games with my friends with big scenarios (more than 1.5Mb)... if it takes more than 15-20 secs to load the map the connection crashes. "downloading map took too long" appears in the server screen... (1826+STR_NETWORK_ERROR_CLIENT_TIMEOUT_MAP)) in google.
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00:30:15 <Eddi|zuHause> rutine: there are timeout settings in the openttd.cfg file
00:38:55 <rutine> i change max_init_time , max_join_time and max_download_time and i was able to connect a 5,61 Mb map
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11:59:36 <oskari89> Current trunk's cargodest's destination layer vanishes after savegame load
12:01:37 <planetmaker> btw, cargodist ;-) i. not e.
12:02:12 <planetmaker> distribution. not destintations
12:03:13 <oskari89> Anyway, that seems to be the case
12:03:26 <oskari89> Can somebody else reproduce that bug?
12:03:26 <planetmaker> it disappears like any open windows...
12:04:15 <oskari89> From the layer settings
12:04:39 <planetmaker> It's IMHO a sane choice to default to 'off' for loading or entering a new game
12:04:51 <planetmaker> the distribution network graph eats LOADS of CPU
12:05:20 <planetmaker> and it's as easily switched on as a station window is opened
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12:10:17 <maddy_> is there any way for the game to remember what windows were open, and resume that state when loading a savegame?
12:14:30 <planetmaker> You need to solve the problem to restore the windows depending on the savegame you load as you might not be able to restore the windows if another game is loaded.
12:15:09 <planetmaker> Maybe you could create a file which remembers windows depending on savegame file or so... There was a discussion some time ago about that, dunno whether here or at tt-forums
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12:16:44 <maddy_> what about remembering just open windows, not related to the savegame?
12:16:55 <planetmaker> maddy_, which windows are not related?
12:17:18 <planetmaker> yeah. the toolbar. that's it
12:17:24 <maddy_> I guess newgrfs and settings affect them
12:17:46 <planetmaker> vehicle purchase windows? depend on actual depot
12:17:50 <planetmaker> company info? specific
12:17:54 <planetmaker> map info? specific
12:18:24 <maddy_> I normally keep "construct rail" toolbar, and visibility toolbars open all the time, for example
12:19:29 <planetmaker> yes... but rail toolbar is accessible by 'a' and needs no arrangement (IMHO)
12:19:50 <planetmaker> I only arrange depot views and maybe secondary map views or maybe goal progress
12:24:07 <V453000> seriuosly you can open most of the toolbars with hotkeys very quickly
12:24:28 <V453000> ctrl X for visibility
12:24:28 <planetmaker> and you can define hotkeys yourself :-)
12:24:54 <planetmaker> I always need add one for road toolbar
12:33:23 <maddy_> yeah I should learn hotkeys, that would help a lot
12:37:23 <planetmaker> :-) I couldn't live without. Yet still, it may make sense to save windows. It "just" needs decent thought beforehand on how to handle that
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13:09:50 <Eddi|zuHause> one issue i always had was that the "sticky" button reset itself when switching toolbars (which happens very often)
13:10:36 <Eddi|zuHause> the sticky state should be shared between all toolbars that replace each other
13:15:24 <Eddi|zuHause> *schnips* there you are :p
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16:19:03 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i just make all toolbars sticky, and save the stickyness in the config
16:19:35 <frosch123> no idea why you would want to switch between stickyness of the sametoolbar, but not switch between different toolbars
16:21:03 <frosch123> you said you want to keep the stickyness when switching between road an rail
16:21:08 <Eddi|zuHause> the option to save stickyness wasn't around last time i played
16:21:32 <frosch123> so, you didn't play in the last months :p
16:21:53 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i didn't play in the last years :p
16:22:15 <Eddi|zuHause> my last game was with yacd
16:22:30 <Eddi|zuHause> and the one before that with chill's pp
16:22:47 <frosch123> yacd is newer than cpp ?
16:23:06 <Eddi|zuHause> until it fell behind with grf support
16:23:38 <Eddi|zuHause> they may have been around the same time
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16:29:48 <planetmaker> don't you wanna bring out a firs version of CETS? :-)
16:30:23 <frosch123> cets was started to compensate for dnf being released
16:30:49 <Eddi|zuHause> CETS was never formally announced :p
16:31:11 <V453000> I wouldnt call myself formal either
16:31:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean: there's no forum thread about it
16:32:05 <V453000> I wouldnt say that is what makes a newGRF legit
16:32:14 <V453000> purr has no thread either :P
16:33:18 <V453000> well I didnt make any
16:33:31 <planetmaker> the more announcement, the more legit. It doesn't need release nor taster
16:33:40 <planetmaker> just screenshots and show-cases
16:34:22 <Eddi|zuHause> there's no grf more legit than DBSetXL 0.9
16:34:49 <Eddi|zuHause> with a close runner up of BROS
16:35:24 <V453000> doesnt seem to exist according to bananas
16:35:38 <Eddi|zuHause> bananas is always right
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17:16:49 <Eddi|zuHause> but his question on window width intrigues me: was the size changed, or did we add some stuff so it doesn't fit anymore?
17:17:10 <frosch123> i would guess that the size is defined by the text length
17:17:28 <frosch123> and noone thought about keeping the length, because it generally makes no sense to head for a specific length
17:17:53 <frosch123> you can resize the window in 1 pixel steps, not in tiles sizes
17:23:15 <Miauw> Uh, I have another question
17:23:33 <Miauw> Will putting block signals in front of intersections with roads stop crashes?
17:23:47 <Miauw> (Crashes with busses and so, that is)
17:24:14 <planetmaker> path signals close the level crossing, if the path is reserved through it
17:24:19 <Miauw> Is there any way to advoid that?
17:24:27 <Eddi|zuHause> putting down path signals will close the crossing early so vehicles have more time to leave
17:24:36 <Eddi|zuHause> but that turns double tracks into a death trap
17:24:49 <Miauw> Yeah, I'm using double trakcs D:
17:25:05 <Eddi|zuHause> only reliable way to prevent crashes is a bridge
17:25:36 <Miauw> It only happened once so far, so I hope I'll be fine.
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18:17:38 <maddy_> is the original ai still available somewhere?
18:18:07 <Rubidium> frosch123: that's the deluxe AI
18:18:45 <Eddi|zuHause> it heavily depends on how restrictive you interpret "somewhere"
18:20:08 <maddy_> original ttd/openttd ai (not sure how similar they are), is it available as a downloable plug-in ai for current openttd?
18:20:18 <Eddi|zuHause> the joy of languages. where two people can say the exact same words and mean something completely opposite
18:20:49 <Eddi|zuHause> maddy_: "simple AI" tries to mimic the behaviour of the old AI
18:21:27 <MNIM> Depending on your definition of 'tries'
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18:22:43 <maddy_> I take the simple answer is no then
18:22:55 <Rubidium> no AI in OpenTTD since 2009 / 0.7 is similar to the original AI. The original AI has free terraforming and an extra rating bonus for stations
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18:23:19 <Rubidium> since 0.7 no AI has free terraforming or a rating bonus at stations, thus the orginal AI can't exist there
18:24:01 <Rubidium> (whereby original == AI roughly equal to the one in the deluxe version of Transport Tycoon)
18:24:34 <V453000> play without AI, problem solved
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18:25:00 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah. the moments are rare when i agree with V453000 :p
18:25:34 <maddy_> I play mostly without ai's
18:26:07 <maddy_> but I appreciate the fact that you can easily find a problem to a solution
18:26:42 <maddy_> I should say a solution to a problem :)
18:26:54 <V453000> doesnt matter you were understood
18:26:55 <Eddi|zuHause> it's way funnier the other way around :p
18:28:14 <maddy_> any problem/issue/question relating to openttd can always be solved by simply not playing openttd :)
18:28:34 <Eddi|zuHause> what if the problem is not playing enough openttd?
18:28:49 <maddy_> good point, that would be the exception
18:29:08 <V453000> I didnt say you should play less OpenTTD
18:29:15 <V453000> I said AIs are worthless
18:29:24 <MNIM> a problem to the solution can always be found
18:30:05 <maddy_> V453000: well, but your solution is that everyone should play with same parameters as you do
18:30:16 <Eddi|zuHause> 's a solution: my little pony
18:30:23 <Eddi|zuHause> what the hell is the problem to that?
18:30:23 <V453000> no, my solution is people should not use AIs
18:31:41 <maddy_> I do agree with that somewhat actually
18:32:12 <V453000> the only thing AI does is produce wtf clutter which cost map space and mainly CPU
18:32:30 <V453000> "feeling you play with other people?" go press the Multiplayer button
18:32:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i've played about 3 multiplayer games
18:33:17 <maddy_> I've played probably 0 multiplayer games
18:33:18 <V453000> well you dont have the need to use AI either
18:33:18 <peter1138> the only thing multiplayer does is produce wtf clutter which cost map space and mainly CPU
18:33:36 <Rubidium> ... and I can't fast forward
18:33:41 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it also uses bandwidth :p
18:33:46 <V453000> the only thing multiplayer does is interaction/communication with other players?
18:33:54 <V453000> also why fast forward :D
18:34:06 <frosch123> why interact with others :p
18:34:13 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i never fast forward... i spend most of my games paused
18:34:28 <V453000> frosch123 the antisocial programmer :D
18:34:49 <MNIM> Eddi|zuHause: I recognize that
18:37:14 <Miauw> Is there any way to forbid towns from expanding roads onto railways?
18:37:32 <maddy_> I think there is an advanced setting for it
18:40:03 <Miauw> Can't find an advanced setting
18:41:08 <Miauw> Towns are allowed to build grade crossings?
18:41:36 <V453000> yes, but it is wise to prevent them from building roads too,
18:42:05 <V453000> if you want to grow them, you are taking care over them and want to build the roads your way, if not, why let them grow for no reason
18:42:23 <Miauw> I dunno. Seeing them grow is pretty fun.
18:42:25 <Miauw> I've just started this game.
18:42:45 <V453000> well if you enjoy looking at the towns growing then I guess its okay XD
18:43:30 <maddy_> rail tiles cost cpu/space too :)
18:44:19 <Miauw> Besides, my PC is rather good.
18:44:28 <Miauw> So I doubt that I'll have to build efficient layouts to minimize CPU usage.
18:44:34 <V453000> yes but playing the game without rails is like staring at empty tiles
18:44:47 <V453000> your PC isnt good enough :) trust me
18:45:15 <Miauw> This game is that CPU intensive?
18:45:20 <maddy_> Miauw: in any case, glad you found this great game
18:46:01 <V453000> it uses "only" one core so . :)
18:46:02 <maddy_> it's cpu intensive if you run 5k trains like V453000 does, not for other players
18:48:39 <maddy_> is there a patch (or other way) to automate management of train groups? I am thinking something like automatically putting trains in a group based on the 1st station in their orders
18:49:49 <Eddi|zuHause> the game is not CPU intensive if you stick to the orgiginal limit of 80 trains and 360 vehicles (wagons, engines, ...) in total
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18:50:22 <peter1138> Hmm, did we ever get extra height levels?
18:50:45 <Eddi|zuHause> which was barely enough on a 486 DX2 66
18:50:56 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: there's a patch for that
18:51:10 <peter1138> Yeah, I seem to remember bits of it making their way through.
18:54:14 <V453000> peter1138: I would not say 256*256 is always not cpu intensive :P
18:54:48 <peter1138> Things that help :p
18:55:30 <Eddi|zuHause> so, 66MHz were enough for 360 vehicles and 256^2 maps. now we have 2048^2 maps and 64k vehicles, so you need 66*8*8*180 ~ about 800GHz, without any NewGRFs (houses, industries, ...)
18:56:18 <Eddi|zuHause> assuming everything scales linearly
18:57:18 <Miauw> I have no idea how much 800 GHz is.
18:57:55 <V453000> you probably have arouns 3GHz
18:58:06 <Miauw> Well, I don't think it scales linearly, then.
18:58:14 <Miauw> Because that's a rather obscene amount of CPU
18:58:23 <frosch123> cpu power is also not measured in ghz
18:58:26 <Eddi|zuHause> we did a few optimisations in the last decade
18:58:33 <frosch123> esp. not when comparing cisc with risc processors
18:58:46 <maddy_> but don't cpu speed double like every 2 to 1.5 years? so, assuming openttd doesn't bloat much, you can always wait 1.5 years and play bigger games
18:58:56 <Miauw> And if I'm not, I'll report back :P
18:59:00 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, there are mips and flops and stuff :p
18:59:45 <Eddi|zuHause> maddy_: but they cheated and didn't make the processors faster in the last 5 years, but instead put on more processors in the same space
19:00:23 <Eddi|zuHause> but openttd can't make a use of those other processors
19:00:32 <maddy_> Eddi|zuHause: yes, you are right, and since openttd uses only single core, we are screwed
19:00:40 <Eddi|zuHause> because the architecture is not massively parallelizable
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19:08:35 <Miauw> Is there any chance to make it multithread?
19:09:30 <planetmaker> Miauw, I suggest to search tt-forums for appropriate threads :-)
19:09:38 <planetmaker> It's been discussed ad nauseam :)
19:15:23 <Miauw> A town built a really long bridge just to cut a corner of a lake.
19:15:52 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah they do that
19:16:24 <andythenorth> someone should patch FISH compile for me
19:16:40 <andythenorth> so that python reads the lang_src directory, instead of me maintaining a list of installed translations
19:28:57 <alluke> why does that fmx have bucket plastic all around the cab
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19:58:47 <andythenorth> so DanMacK and I are working on something and could use help o_O
19:59:05 <andythenorth> DanMacK: unless you fancy geting the nml build tools installed? o_O
20:00:18 <V453000> what evil are ou trying to spew andy
20:01:32 <andythenorth> just some horses and trains
20:02:51 <planetmaker> iron-clad unicorns?
20:18:38 <Eddi|zuHause> just mount an iron horn on a horse?
20:23:13 <andythenorth> need a grf name for "Iron Horse"
20:23:29 <andythenorth> someone usually suggests something witty
20:23:58 <juzza1> something beginning with 43?
20:25:49 <planetmaker> andythenorth, what time / area does it cover?
20:25:59 <planetmaker> just take the typical year of that epoch
20:26:22 <andythenorth> planetmaker: 1850-2050 or so
20:26:51 <planetmaker> what's a significant year? :-)
20:27:37 <DanMacK> 1830 - first "real" steam
20:34:06 <frosch123> isn't danmack from cananad?
20:35:14 <andythenorth> so what's the id?
20:38:39 <andythenorth> is that a valid grfid?
20:39:26 <andythenorth> nml disagress with you
20:39:40 <Eddi|zuHause> well have to put it in ""
20:44:10 <andythenorth> invalid string literal
20:44:49 <planetmaker> one or the other should work, iirc
20:45:10 <frosch123> well, is it really decimal? or hex?
20:45:14 <Rubidium> pff... it's just "CA" 18 30 in nfo or "CA" \w1830 as variation
20:45:31 <andythenorth> Illegal character '\' (character code 0x5C) at "iron-horse.nml", line 3, column 13
20:45:31 <frosch123> maybe you need to use "CA\12\1E" ?
20:45:37 <andythenorth> result ^^ of second option
20:45:49 <frosch123> Rubidium: endian :p
20:45:56 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: \18 is perfectly good hex
20:45:58 <planetmaker> I would rather suggest \97\87\18\30
20:46:17 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: or BCD
20:46:19 <andythenorth> frosch123: your suggestion worked
20:47:35 <andythenorth> shall I commit it?
20:48:00 <planetmaker> any is as good as another as long as it's not on bananas so far
20:50:06 <Eddi|zuHause> ...except when some crazyperson comes along and says "i claim 1 million GRFIDs"
20:50:25 <planetmaker> that's the low end
20:51:06 <andythenorth> bananas should have a grfid search
20:51:16 <andythenorth> fortunately my browser has find :P
20:51:24 <Eddi|zuHause> GRFCrawler has one
20:52:01 <andythenorth> ok we're safe :P
20:52:45 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but that still requires you to ascii-convert
20:54:29 <Eddi|zuHause> so who used CETS on a server?
20:55:34 <Eddi|zuHause> was quite a while ago
21:03:45 <Rubidium> ugh... that list... it's spreading
21:04:18 <planetmaker> rename the file, Rubidium ;-)
21:07:17 <Rubidium> oh... there's a novel way of graduating your bachelor for electrical engineering
21:10:37 <juzza1> how do i enable the cargodist overlay?
21:13:18 <frosch123> why is everyone ever using the same screenshot?
21:14:19 <frosch123> Rubidium: is that related to the other guy?
21:14:24 <frosch123> same university or something?
21:15:21 <Rubidium> it's someone related to rondje IIRC
21:15:33 <Rubidium> well... the "sponsor" is
21:15:45 <frosch123> oh, we are an RTS now
21:15:54 <frosch123> V453000: what's you eapm?
21:16:42 <frosch123> you do not know your building speed in ottd? in tracks/signals per minute?
21:18:27 <Rubidium> frosch123: building speed... 0.5 per minute?
21:19:22 <V453000> how do you even measure eapm in openttd
21:19:22 <Rubidium> oh no... that's trunk for the last 6 commits ;)
21:20:48 <frosch123> Rubidium: does the farm use -j ?
21:21:10 <frosch123> i don't think you just add the eapm of all players in a team
21:21:55 * ^Spike^ just read that graduation...
21:22:08 <^Spike^> shame he used MoSCoW in a way not described on his source... :)
21:23:06 <^Spike^> although it is a nice document for the rest of it :D
21:24:52 <frosch123> well, it's certanily more complex than what i saw at the cs department of my university :p
21:27:17 <frosch123> the first lecture of the first master cs course i addeded was likely one of the core revelations in my life
21:28:24 <frosch123> well, after school i couldn't decide whether i should study cs or technical math
21:28:33 <^Spike^> somehow reading that... did get me in a mode of: Missing this... that etc etc :)
21:28:34 <frosch123> so i started both, and made both "vordiplom"
21:29:10 <frosch123> though mainly i did math, and did the cs stuff thinking "year, it's vordiplom, they have to do the basics somewhen"
21:29:27 <frosch123> so, i went into hauptdiplom with the mood: yay, let's finally get started
21:29:51 <frosch123> and then spend the second half of the first hour with: what have i been thinking, the studends are still the same
21:30:17 <frosch123> basically the lecturer told us what he planned for the year
21:30:37 <frosch123> i thought wtf, and then spent the rest of the hour planning the rest of my studies :p
21:31:42 <frosch123> actually, i kind of felt stupid for not ever thinking it through before
21:31:55 <frosch123> i just always stopped at, oh well its "vordiplom" :p
21:32:46 <frosch123> though the more specialised cs courses were interesting nevertheless
21:33:41 <^Spike^> well when i started i realized... ok doing a bachelor in IT... all they are gonna learn me is programming....
21:33:46 <^Spike^> and they didn't disappoint...
21:33:56 <^Spike^> even worse.. first year it was like: yeah write it any way you want...
21:34:05 <^Spike^> second year: We're gonna do it differently.... OO
21:34:12 <^Spike^> eh.. wtf? why didn't we learn that last year?
21:34:24 * andythenorth failed one computing course
21:34:30 <andythenorth> and failed an Excel training course
21:35:07 <^Spike^> well for some reason... ppl in the IT course weren't allowed to take the Word for Beginners and Powerpoint for beginners in the free time...
21:35:10 <^Spike^> i don't understand why :D
21:36:09 <frosch123> they scared off the other participants?
21:39:13 <^Spike^> i think merely the fact that for a point we would need to spend 28 hours... and IT ppl just would finish the course in a single day... doesn't help :D
21:39:47 <frosch123> oi, just found the intro gui in the thesis
21:40:01 <frosch123> that's actually funny :)
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21:44:04 <frosch123> hmm, typical programming thesis
21:44:30 <frosch123> likely spent lots of time programming, but almost no result in the thesis
21:44:53 <frosch123> programming has no good time:text ratio :)
21:46:00 <oskari89> Trading system for OpenTTD, seems intresting :)
21:46:20 <frosch123> you are no regular reader of suggestion forum, are you?
21:47:12 <oskari89> Usually i read the threads that i am subscribed
21:47:56 <frosch123> the annoying thing about the suggestion forum is that it is basicaly interesting for about one year
21:48:05 <frosch123> then you have read every suggestion
21:48:11 <frosch123> and it will only repeat over and over again
21:48:20 <frosch123> after 5 years it's almost a torture
21:48:40 <oskari89> Well, gradually some features will be included :)
21:48:56 <oskari89> As it's case of Cargod*st
21:49:05 <frosch123> sometimes people forget to not answer to suggestions they have read 10 times before
21:49:16 <frosch123> and then insult the newbie who suggeste dthem
21:49:21 <frosch123> and then everyone is offended :)
21:50:08 <frosch123> at other times people who have folllowed it for some months (but have not yet figured out the repetition period), complain that noone ever takes the suggestions serious :)
21:50:14 <frosch123> then everyone is offended again :p
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21:53:02 <^Spike^> frosch123 tbh my student side looked @ that thesis and did miss alot of info or saw some incorrect facts.. which amaze me are still possible after the crap we had with high schools here 2 years ago
21:54:06 <frosch123> i guess you read it on a different level than me :)
21:54:12 <frosch123> i only looked at the pictures
21:54:20 <^Spike^> i even read my own few months back..
21:54:31 <frosch123> and wondered abuot the literature register
21:54:38 <planetmaker> NEVER read your own thesis after it's handed-in
21:54:40 <^Spike^> well it's incomplete imo :D
21:54:47 <^Spike^> planetmaker it's 2 years old now :D
21:54:56 <^Spike^> damn i'm done for 2 years already... :)
21:55:06 <frosch123> mainly about the "factory pattern" between libboost and some other huge library reference
21:55:22 <frosch123> planetmaker: mine has nice pictures at the end :)
21:55:23 <^Spike^> well what i missed were more references to the register...
21:55:34 <^Spike^> openttd should've had one.. cause that is info he pulled from the site probably
21:55:42 <^Spike^> maybe even... the date he visited that page
21:56:05 <^Spike^> i ignored the UMLs mostly cause i hated doing those :D
21:56:36 <^Spike^> all tiny details but can be important for the big picture :)
21:57:02 <frosch123> planetmaker: actually, i had a consistent typo in one my studienarbeit
21:57:21 <frosch123> i called a guy named "donald" "dalton" all the time
21:57:35 <planetmaker> he. I guess... doesn't matter :-P
21:57:40 <^Spike^> and planetmaker even though i discovered errors in my report... i still stand by my conclusion :D
21:57:49 <frosch123> and noone noticed, until way later a collegue of the corrector read it, and asked me :p
21:59:21 <frosch123> ^Spike^: anyway, did you see the screenshot of the intro gui in the thesis?
21:59:52 <^Spike^> functionality first... :D
22:00:12 <frosch123> i think we can use that on april 1st
22:00:18 <^Spike^> oeh... those are pictures on buttons....
22:00:19 <frosch123> singleplayer and newgrf removed
22:00:24 <^Spike^> let's remove the pictures!
22:00:55 <frosch123> everything is in the cloud
22:01:03 <^Spike^> even better: reference to this project? :D
22:01:05 <frosch123> only 5€ per month subscription
22:01:22 <planetmaker> and 50€ for a whole year
22:01:46 <^Spike^> and don't forget... connect with other players! buying land blocking your path! :D
22:01:48 <frosch123> did you meant to say 50? or 70?
22:02:04 <frosch123> sometimes yearly prices are higher :p
22:02:16 <planetmaker> yearly super-saver!
22:02:30 <^Spike^> buy land others have bought? :D
22:02:40 <^Spike^> just to make it more trolly... :)
22:02:44 <frosch123> oh, you mean 1€ to clear any tile of opponent?
22:03:26 <frosch123> or 1 cent per tile altered/cleared/build upon
22:57:07 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
23:05:24 <Eddi|zuHause> what the hell is an LD50?
23:05:42 <Supercheese> Dosage that kills half the test subjects on average
23:06:07 <Supercheese> I had to look it up too :P
23:07:15 <Eddi|zuHause> so it's lethal to carry twice your weight in paper?
23:07:35 <Supercheese> for half of the people tested
23:07:47 <Supercheese> Strong folks could carry more, weak folks less
23:07:52 <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't sound quite right
23:07:52 <Supercheese> of course, it's just a joke
23:08:22 <Supercheese> I don't think it was so much "carry" as "have dropped on"
23:08:48 <Supercheese> The poor fellow looked rather squished
23:09:16 <Supercheese> although the stack is a bit too organized for a drop test...
continue to next day ⏵
