IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-07-11
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07:43:56 * andythenorth just made a ship with nominal speed 356mph
07:44:17 <andythenorth> actual speed overflows to 0 somewhere around 128mph
08:08:14 <peter1139> i have a patch for that...
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08:33:12 <Xaroth|Work> did you get the Q pm asked yesterday btw?
08:35:40 <planetmaker> heya dihedral :-)
08:36:31 <planetmaker> we need a (test) bot which connects to admin port in, say, 1.1.4 in order to test whether it still works with current 1.3.x and trunk :-)
08:37:06 <planetmaker> with all instances of dihedral 's bot I found and still had I was somehow insuccessful yesterday
08:37:10 <Xaroth|Work> as in, to see if the protocol is still valid?
08:37:28 <planetmaker> whether it barfs or not :-)
08:37:40 <planetmaker> (and to have something to check future additions with, too :D )
08:37:46 <Xaroth|Work> my lib works with and without the patches applied, without on 1.3.1 and trunk, and with on trunk ofc
08:38:28 <Xaroth|Work> mind, sending a PING on an unpatched will disconnect you
08:38:34 <planetmaker> hm :-) do you have a small test application which I can just launch, Xaroth
08:39:03 <Xaroth|Work> planetmaker: I normally do it through a python console, so I can specify what to send and receive
08:39:12 <Xaroth|Work> but a test app can be made at some point
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08:41:12 <planetmaker> that's what I was looking for basically. And I know that I tested dih's incarnation long time ago successfully on life servers
08:41:43 <planetmaker> obviously I miss the right version, though :-)
08:42:03 <planetmaker> and I miss the environment to compile the java projects of his
08:43:01 <Xaroth|Work> I'm too spoiled with python; I get frustrated having to wait for compiles to finish :P
08:47:33 <planetmaker> well... a python file which I just call and possibly output its logs to console is fine, too
08:48:34 <Xaroth|Work> first I need to move some code around a bit
08:48:49 <Xaroth|Work> this thing 'works' .. but not 100% how I want it to
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08:56:35 <dihedral> test bot would actually be a good thing
08:57:10 <planetmaker> I thought you had it, dihedral
08:57:14 <dihedral> just a bot that communicates each and every packet and outputs what packet was sent / received
08:57:25 <planetmaker> I recall running a test instance of some bot of yours on the admin port of the publicserver
08:57:35 <planetmaker> simpleconsole or so?
08:57:48 <planetmaker> but those downloads I found somehow did not work for me. yes, joan, too
08:57:52 <dihedral> if you start joan it will simply connect as a remote console
08:58:06 <planetmaker> I probably only failed in configuring it
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09:31:19 <dihedral> but joan will only make use of console packets ...
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09:36:46 <dihedral> perhaps i can add a simple joan test
09:37:02 <Xaroth|Work> planetmaker: what kind of packets do you want tested
09:38:44 <dihedral> if there is a protocol tester, it should test all it knows
09:44:26 <Eddi|zuHause> "the 24/7 surveillance of ecuador's embassy in london, in case julian assange leaves it, has already cost 4 million pounds"
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10:02:21 <planetmaker> Xaroth, dihedral is right, the "best" solution would be a comprehensive test. Otherwise I'd resort to a simply logging test as that's approx what worked for me before... somewhen somehow
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10:05:14 <Xaroth|Work> once I got this working, I'll see what I can do on that
10:25:43 <Xaroth|Work> on a side note, planetmaker, any chance we can get the packets in before 1.3.2 ? .. it's not a new feature, but the benefit is great enough to be in a release
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11:07:34 <planetmaker> hm, we already have an RC for 1.3.2 and it's not a fix.
11:08:37 <peter1139> fix: missing ping function
11:20:51 <Xaroth|Work> I agree with peter1139 :P
11:21:01 <Xaroth|Work> also: fix: missing end-of-command for rcon
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11:49:23 <Teyro> Hi everyone. My Name is Christian i am the hoster of the biggest german linux gaming podcast (the playing penguin podcast a.k.a p3cast). I want to do an interview is someone here who can help me?
11:51:14 <Xaroth|Work> depends on who you need
11:53:34 <planetmaker> so how can we help you exactly? :-)
11:54:54 <Teyro> Well, i am looking for a guy / dev from the community who speaks german for an interview. My Listerns want to hear more about OpenTTD a created a video review but i want to do an interview too
11:55:12 <planetmaker> do you have time on 27/28 July?
11:55:19 <planetmaker> time to travel to Braunschweig?
11:55:39 <planetmaker> you can then meet 70% of the active openttd devs
11:56:10 <Teyro> maybe in realife i am a preschool teacher i have to look
11:56:58 <planetmaker> in real life all of us are something else. It's a hobby project after all ;-)
11:57:33 <peter1139> I'm a coder in real life too...
11:57:39 <peter1139> Wait, isn't this real?
11:58:02 <planetmaker> hehe, peter1139 :-)
11:58:03 <Teyro> maybe i have time have to decide it
11:58:47 <Teyro> The Problem is that is an Audio Podcast
11:59:11 <planetmaker> you surely have a laptop and a microphone ;-)
11:59:59 <Teyro> mhhh ;) did you have some more information
12:01:18 <planetmaker> yes... basically we meet on that Saturday afternoon for cake, BBQ and drinks at my place. And have an awesome time till we fall asleep :-P
12:01:59 <planetmaker> and sure enough many of our discussion topics will be openttd-related
12:04:17 <planetmaker> but yes, we can make an interview also another time
12:04:33 <planetmaker> just would give you an idea who we are :-P
12:04:55 <planetmaker> (the meeting itself will be in English, though, of course)
12:04:57 <Teyro> did you have jabber adress for contact?
12:05:05 <planetmaker> I don't have jabber, no
12:05:48 <peter1139> but nobody uses jabber :(
12:06:12 <planetmaker> too many communication channels spoil focus ;-)
12:06:55 <peter1139> problem with communications channels is you've got to use the ones the people you communicate with use :S
12:07:29 <planetmaker> alternatively you could have conversations^Wmonologue with the wall next to you
12:07:37 <peter1139> that would often be more useful
12:07:51 <planetmaker> sometimes it feels the same and might be less frustrating, yes
12:07:52 <Teyro> alternatively you could have conversations^Wmonologue with the wall next to you <---- =
12:08:08 <planetmaker> as opposed to talking on different channels past eachother ^
12:08:28 <blathijs> peter1139: Google Talk is jabber, so you add arbitrary Gmail addresses / google accounts in your Jabber
12:08:41 <peter1139> blathijs, google talk is gone
12:09:00 <peter1139> it's google hangouts now, and they dropped (s2s) jabber
12:09:23 <planetmaker> hangout at least was so much use to find one person again ;-)
12:09:30 <Teyro> yes i know i hate google for this fu**up
12:09:49 <blathijs> peter1139: They did? I'm still chatting to gmail accounts through Jabber without problems...
12:10:44 <Teyro> yes but i will end in the next weeks
12:10:58 <Teyro> its only for persons who didnt know that like you
12:11:08 <planetmaker> I hope yo don't end that quickly :-P
12:12:16 <Teyro> well i afk for some minutes
12:12:25 <Teyro> wrote a mail to info@....
12:12:38 <planetmaker> thus it will be in my inbox :-P
12:25:34 <Xaroth|Work> 14:01 <@planetmaker> yes... basically we meet on that Saturday afternoon for cake, BBQ and drinks at my place. And have an awesome time till we fall asleep :-P <<< alllll niiight looooooooong
12:37:34 <Xaroth|Work> now if only we could get those two packets in trunk ;)
12:39:16 <planetmaker> gimme test bot :-P
12:39:22 <Xaroth|Work> I could also make a simple command that takes a JSON file of packets + info to send, and then print out on console what it prints and what it receives
12:39:27 <planetmaker> had I had it last night, it would be there ;-)
12:39:29 <Xaroth|Work> so you can test different cases easily
12:43:05 * peter1139 notes that his homemade wine is nice
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13:59:30 <Belugas> problem of taxs printing. freaking corner case not expected...
14:00:04 <Eddi|zuHause> corner cases would be way less fun if you could expect them :p
14:29:55 <Xaroth|Work> dihedral: if you want to test, check the commandline for the connection details; my server is running the RCON_END patch atm
14:38:24 <dihedral> Xaroth, I am at work and i have no time to test, until next week ;-)
14:40:24 <Xaroth|Work> hopefully by then it'll be in trunk already :)
14:45:36 <dihedral> planetmaker, a protocol test would be tricky - some packets require client interaction - e.g. CLIENT_JOIN etc.
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14:56:21 <Belugas> would be best if we all could live in round rooms, as there would not be any corner at all...
15:07:20 <krinn> can someone light me on change to AddSetting, AI doesn't handle easy, medium... value anymore, looking @ doc they are still needed values
15:18:01 <planetmaker> krinn, not sure I get your question...
15:19:38 <planetmaker> dihedral, some test always is better than no test at all :-)
15:19:53 <planetmaker> and now I get Xaroth's pastes
15:21:29 <krinn> the custome value cannot be use anymore, i find out other settings are now in openttd configuration
15:22:06 <Xaroth|Work> planetmaker: with my test script as it is now, you can easily simulate -some- situations, like rcon send and receive, but as dih mentioned, you can't really work with the more responsive things like clients and companies.
15:22:12 <Eddi|zuHause> the distinction between "difficulty settings" and "advanced settings" has been removed
15:22:17 <Xaroth|Work> well, companies might be feasible
15:22:27 <Eddi|zuHause> as a side effect, the "easy/medium/hard" presets are also gone
15:23:12 <Xaroth|Work> planetmaker: so, will it make it before 1.3.2? *nudge* *nudge* :P
15:23:21 <planetmaker> yes, there's no 'custom' difficulty setting any longer available for AIs, krinn
15:23:35 <planetmaker> it didn't make sense anyway...
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15:23:41 <krinn> but still the value is needed ?
15:23:56 <Xaroth|Work> how is the value needed?
15:24:22 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you should ask what you're actually trying to do
15:24:28 <planetmaker> openttd <1.3 still has 'custom'. And the difficulty is something which your AI can use or not use
15:24:35 <planetmaker> you set that in the adv. settings for AIs now
15:24:36 <krinn> custom_value The default value if the custom difficulty level is selected. Required.
15:24:48 <planetmaker> thus it's a proxy on how difficult you want your AIs as player
15:25:38 <Xaroth|Work> so what you're trying to say
15:25:52 <Xaroth|Work> AIInfo::AddSetting has easy/medium/hard/custom value as required
15:25:54 <planetmaker> the custom_value makes no sense anymore
15:25:56 <Xaroth|Work> while they are not used anymore
15:26:08 <planetmaker> easy/medium/hard are still used
15:26:11 <dihedral> planetmaker, true treu :-)
15:26:24 <Xaroth|Work> file a bug report :)
15:26:26 <dihedral> but perhaps if the test starts an openttd instance to join a client ... :-D
15:26:43 <dihedral> can gamescripts chat in the mean time?
15:27:10 <Xaroth|Work> dihedral: you can send data to gamescript? :P
15:27:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think so
15:27:15 <Xaroth|Work> and have a gamescript send data back
15:27:42 <dihedral> Xaroth|Work, that tests the gamescript part of the protocol, not the CLIENT_JOIN and LEAVE etc.
15:27:45 <Eddi|zuHause> admin-port <-> GS communication can be done with JSON objects
15:28:06 <Eddi|zuHause> other communication can be done via signs
15:28:25 <krinn> That's strange guys, as previously the settings were set before game start, now it could be alter while running
15:28:27 <Xaroth|Work> dihedral: yeh, but it's a bit hard to test with a human factor included ;)
15:28:38 <Eddi|zuHause> but afaik direct chat was considered "wrong"
15:28:58 <planetmaker> krinn, yes, in principle it could. But you can decide to not care :-)
15:28:59 <Eddi|zuHause> but your admin bot can read the chat, and send that to the GS
15:29:07 <dihedral> i can send an rcon command to chat and expect to receive the chat packet in the bot
15:29:12 <Xaroth|Work> because in tests you want to rule out as many variables as you can
15:29:14 <Xaroth|Work> not introduce more :P
15:29:24 <dihedral> i can trigger a program to start and connect the game and kill the program again
15:29:36 <planetmaker> dihedral, regression tests should not involve a human factor at best :-)
15:29:47 <Xaroth|Work> but I'm not going to build something that acts as a client :P
15:29:50 <planetmaker> regressions in openttd... hard
15:30:03 <dihedral> Xaroth, the protocol is very similar :-P
15:30:04 <planetmaker> though... hm. with GS and admin port one might actually be able to do so :D
15:30:27 <Xaroth|Work> dihedral: I see you volunteered for the job ;)
15:30:38 <dihedral> or we add a --test parameter to openttd, which triggers packets to be sent based on xyz
15:31:05 <dihedral> Xaroth, to be honest, that is what joan did before anything else :-P
15:31:18 <Rubidium> can't you run a second openttd with -vnull and -nlocalhost ?
15:31:30 <Rubidium> that would at least join and quit
15:31:32 <dihedral> Rubidium, yes, i think that is the best thing to do
15:31:47 <Xaroth|Work> Rubidium: yeh, but you'll want to test more than just quit/join
15:31:48 <dihedral> Rubidium, and with scripts/on_connected.src chat ;-)
15:32:18 <Xaroth|Work> that just leaves a large chunk out :P
15:32:33 <Xaroth|Work> joining/swapping companies
15:32:47 <dihedral> that can be done with a script
15:33:13 <dihedral> the server starts with a predifned game which includes multiple companies
15:33:39 <dihedral> the client can join and with an scr script after it has joined perform all required tasks and quit
15:33:55 <dihedral> the start of the client can be triggered by the testing application
15:35:11 <dihedral> i think i will have a fun few weeks ;-)
15:35:56 <dihedral> i am writing a piece of code into joan to perform the protocol test
15:36:08 <dihedral> i can then include the client stuff aswell
15:36:45 <dihedral> i am on my way home now
15:41:05 <Xaroth|Work> planetmaker: a-d should be doable now with libottdadmin2
15:41:30 <Xaroth|Work> just needs building of the proper handling of it
15:44:04 <planetmaker> wow, the long description really was tl;dr, Xaroth :-P
15:44:35 <krinn> those changes have made the strange effect bypassing initial setting of level as now user can switch it when he wish
15:44:40 <Xaroth|Work> README.md is quite.. empty :P
15:47:41 <krinn> per example: on init, base on difficulty i setup some vars, if user change them in game, the init won't happen again : it mean starting hard and switching to easy won't make it easier for real
15:49:05 <planetmaker> krinn, yes. Either you occasionally re-check the setting (or is there an event) and adjust the var. Or you just ignore it. Your choice :-)
15:49:50 <krinn> well, i check settings i have allowed user to change, but ones that were suppose not to be alter are now alterable
15:50:08 <planetmaker> things change :-)
15:50:23 <krinn> AICONFIG_INGAME has no mean so ?
15:52:41 <krinn> it was suppose to block user from changing a setting in game, now it doesn't
15:53:27 <krinn> well, in fact it was contrary, with AICONFIG_INGAME user can alter setting, without it, he couldn't, now he could always base on difficulty swapping
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15:56:56 <planetmaker> I don't know where that AICONFIG_INGAME is used... maybe that description needs adjustment?
15:57:27 <planetmaker> I know that it makes your life more difficult, but from a user perspective, isn't it nice, if you can adjust the AI difficulty to your (current) needs?
15:59:11 <planetmaker> and the difficulty setting has that set differently from any other setting?
15:59:29 <krinn> the option is still gray out
15:59:47 <krinn> but if i pickup another difficulty all settings are change
16:00:20 <krinn> so user cannot alter the option within the AI, like it was, but altering difficulty in openttd alter it
16:00:33 <Eddi|zuHause> so when you change the difficulty, the setting is set to that difficulty's default setting, even if it's flagged as "don't change ingame"?
16:00:41 <planetmaker> ah, now I get what you describe
16:00:59 <Eddi|zuHause> that is probably a bug
16:01:02 <krinn> yes even disallow ingame the setting is alter
16:01:58 <krinn> and any settings not touch by user are not kept too
16:04:15 <krinn> if any of you have my ai it's easy to see: check the "Alter how the ai act with others", that is gray, but change when user change the difficulty in openttd
16:04:21 <planetmaker> krinn, please open an FS issue and describe the problem there... or it might be forgotten again.
16:04:57 <krinn> planetmaker, going to do that
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16:09:59 <planetmaker> Xaroth, which python version do you programme for?
16:11:18 <planetmaker> /usr/lib/python2.7/distutils/dist.py:267: UserWarning: Unknown distribution option: 'install_requires'
16:15:18 <Xaroth|Work> will check in a few
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16:31:48 <Eddi|zuHause> "a group has spread several kilos of cannabis seed across Göttingen"
16:32:04 <Xaroth|Work> planetmaker: that one's already pushed iirc
16:32:44 <planetmaker> dunno, I pulled an hour ago or so
16:32:50 <Xaroth|Work> i fixed it right after that :P
16:43:28 <Xaroth|Work> i'll look into that later :)
16:43:51 <Eddi|zuHause> "from blah import *" is a code smell
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17:12:23 <Xaroth|Work> planetmaker: fixed pushed.. i think
17:18:00 <Xaroth|Work> been a while since i had to work with python's setuptools :|
17:20:54 <Xaroth|Work> how did that not get comitted
17:22:00 <Xaroth|Work> more interestingly
17:22:07 <Xaroth|Work> how did my test run work :P
17:22:25 <planetmaker> that's what I try to figure out, too :-P
17:22:44 <planetmaker> frosch123, do you have time tomorrow night for a FIRS testgame?
17:22:51 <planetmaker> andy said something along those lines...
17:23:24 <Xaroth|Work> that commit missed that entire file
17:23:29 <planetmaker> and Alberth, you, too?
17:23:32 <frosch123> planetmaker: friday night is fine :)
17:23:49 <planetmaker> cool. I just prepare server... seems to be fine, surprisingly
17:24:06 <planetmaker> Not sure I should already prepare map... maybe andy still wants to make a last-minute commit :-P
17:24:26 <frosch123> planetmaker: will you be disappointed if not?
17:25:05 <Alberth> if no last-minute commit
17:25:06 <frosch123> no fundamental changes in firs within a week -> firs is dieing?
17:25:23 <planetmaker> no, I won't, I guess
17:25:44 <planetmaker> Maybe I'll then create a map with today's nightly
17:26:20 <Alberth> oh, starting takes another 24 hours, no need to hurry thus :p
17:26:51 <planetmaker> andy and I talked about that a few days ago... was the only night he'd really have time it seems
17:29:07 <Xaroth|Work> this -should- do it
17:29:07 <Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> Not sure I should already prepare map... maybe andy still wants to make a last-minute commit :-P <-- andy would never do anything on short notice :p
17:29:16 <Xaroth|Work> apparently there were some files in the dir i was testing from
17:29:26 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, exactly :-P
17:29:28 <Xaroth|Work> that caused it to work properly while it was not functional
17:29:57 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25585 /trunk/src/3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel (sqvm.cpp sqvm.h) (2013-07-11 17:29:51 UTC)
17:29:58 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5320]: [Squirrel] Stack overflow did not show an error, due to the stack to throw the error already being full
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17:44:19 <planetmaker> that looks much better now, Xaroth :-)
17:45:12 <Xaroth|Work> time to pick up the missus
17:45:29 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25586 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2013-07-11 17:45:20 UTC)
17:45:30 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:31 <DorpsGek> russian - 6 changes by Lone_Wolf
17:45:32 <DorpsGek> gaelic - 71 changes by GunChleoc
17:45:33 <DorpsGek> vietnamese - 3 changes by nglekhoi
17:46:07 <Xaroth|Work> planetmaker: easiest way to connect: from libottdadmin2.client import * ; a = AdminConnection() ; a.configure(password=x, host=y) ; a.connect()
17:46:15 <Xaroth|Work> .poll returns after 1 second of not receiving anything
17:46:36 <Xaroth|Work> unless you specify a timeout
17:46:42 <Xaroth|Work> useful for main loops
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17:47:22 <Xaroth|Work> if you need a test server; check the paste i showed earlier, it should have the hostname/creds
17:48:45 <planetmaker> test server runs local fine, but thanks
17:57:22 <Alberth> I don't even know what GoT is :p
17:57:47 <planetmaker> best series around currently :-)
17:57:50 <Alberth> oh, right, the big hype
17:57:56 <planetmaker> both as book or movie
17:58:13 <frosch123> maybe i should read the book
17:58:18 <planetmaker> Yesterday I bought the 5 books available :-)
17:58:19 <Eddi|zuHause> it rightfully deserves that hype :p
17:58:21 <frosch123> can't be bothered to watch tv :p
18:01:56 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, that's more than season1
18:02:51 <planetmaker> I'd think the Dothraki lost their Khal only in 2
18:03:14 <Eddi|zuHause> no, that was the end of season 1
18:04:24 <Eddi|zuHause> in season 2 they moved through the desert to "the greatest city there ever was and ever will be"
18:05:01 <planetmaker> I love it how they allow the one of the 13 to enjoy his treasures forever :-)
18:05:50 <planetmaker> supposedly book and film differ at the house of the undying
18:05:59 <Eddi|zuHause> and in season 3 they (*spoiler*)
18:06:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't read the books, so i don't really care about the differences
18:06:42 <Eddi|zuHause> like i also didn't read lord of the rings
18:06:54 <Eddi|zuHause> and i don't care about the differences there either
18:07:20 <planetmaker> not really... but I can't be bothered to wait for seasons 4 and 5 ;-)
18:08:00 <Eddi|zuHause> George R. R. Martin: "the last book took 6 years to come out, so i fear the TV series might catch up" :p
18:09:25 <krinn> Later guys (still i blame Eddi|zuHause for not reading lotr book! )
18:14:09 <frosch123> i heard the lotr book :p
18:16:20 <__ln__> the beginning of lotr is so dull that i bet many people quit there.
18:16:30 <__ln__> the lotr book, that is.
18:17:02 <planetmaker> I quit there the first time
18:17:17 <planetmaker> Only in the 2nd attempt I got past the first 300 pages or so
18:18:32 <__ln__> gandalf visits frodo in the spring, and tells he should go on a journey not later than in the autumn.
18:19:06 <__ln__> that alone is quite different than the time scale in the movie.
18:19:44 * ToBeFree thought GoT is God of Thunder, a very very old game... DOS, I believe
18:20:04 <Eddi|zuHause> the time frame of the movie is a little inconsistent, or at least not very clear
18:20:23 <Eddi|zuHause> they occasionally sprinkle in "it has been X months since we left the shire"
18:24:35 <Xaroth|Work> the red wedding was epic
18:24:39 <Xaroth|Work> it was better in the books tho
18:40:36 <__ln__> the last paragraph in particular
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19:41:47 <planetmaker> andythenorth, only thing missing for tomorrow is a map :-)
19:41:59 <andythenorth> needs to be tropic
19:42:18 <planetmaker> I still plan to make one tonight... just FIRS nightly?
19:42:25 <planetmaker> any other wishes?
19:46:14 <andythenorth> FIRS nightly, a nice trainset, CHIPS
19:47:38 <planetmaker> k :-) Was along the lines I was thinking, too
19:50:05 <frosch123> brazilian town names?
19:50:45 <frosch123> whichever sound more exotic
19:50:58 <frosch123> i am worried about them being just european :p
19:51:48 <andythenorth> we need a decent trainset for Tropic :P
19:51:53 <andythenorth> I should make one
19:52:02 <planetmaker> UKRS in the sun ;-)
19:52:10 <planetmaker> but too old, I think
19:55:32 <planetmaker> Xaroth, definitely should add a trailing whitespace check to his editor
19:57:45 <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r25587 /trunk/src/network (4 files in 2 dirs) (2013-07-11 19:57:40 UTC)
19:57:46 <DorpsGek> -Add FS#5643: Conclude rcon output sent to admin clients with an RCON_END packet (Xaroth)
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20:05:37 <Sacro> planetmaker: surely I shouldn't need to alter his source in order to just compile it ><
20:08:31 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: yes, because of weather
20:09:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure that's what it is :p
20:09:47 <Sacro> planetmaker: this openttd patchpack, I shoudn't have to fix it first surely?
20:10:08 <Sacro> does the GPL not say it should 'just build'?
20:12:21 <andythenorth> and now I will make something
20:12:24 <andythenorth> or talk about it :P
20:13:42 <planetmaker> err... I still don't get how that patchpack relates to anything done or said here, but maybe you can tell me :-)
20:13:56 <Supercheese> He's already built binaries, no?
20:13:59 <planetmaker> I'm still lost as of the context of that question
20:14:00 <Sacro> planetmaker: he's provided a 'specia' diff
20:14:11 <Sacro> his diff doesn't merge cleanly
20:14:14 <Sacro> his source doesn't compie
20:14:37 <Sacro> Supercheese: so? You surley can't provide working binaries with broken source?
20:14:47 <Xaroth|Work> planetmaker: i use a simple text editor, not an IDE :)
20:15:00 <Sacro> I don't want a music set ><
20:15:07 <Sacro> piss off, you're a dedicated server
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20:15:20 <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: the GPL does not say it has to build in every environment out there
20:15:22 <tritoch_> any easy way to sell all trains?
20:15:35 <tritoch_> bought out a company with 500 trains and want to liquidate
20:15:36 <andythenorth> tritoch_: send all to one depot
20:15:44 <Eddi|zuHause> tritoch_: there is a "sell all" button if they are all in one depot
20:15:45 <tritoch_> ugh AI built 1000 depots
20:17:21 <tritoch_> yeah i have to destroy all those next
20:17:22 <Eddi|zuHause> then you're probably out of luck
20:17:33 <Eddi|zuHause> or you destroy the depots first
20:17:49 <tritoch_> already destroyed a good amount of track unfortunately
20:18:09 <tritoch_> was hoping there was some way to do it from groups or replace i didn't know about
20:19:59 <Sacro> OpenTTD has no concept of 'Happy faces'
20:20:02 <Eddi|zuHause> you can only send them to depot from there, or autoreplace. but not sell
20:20:21 <tritoch_> i'll just load a pre-buyout save
20:20:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: attach your issues to the two-earrings-report? :p
20:20:57 <Eddi|zuHause> is that even still open?
20:23:53 <andythenorth> code removal ftw
20:24:47 <andythenorth> it's an old story :)
20:31:45 <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r25588 /trunk/src/network (4 files in 2 dirs) (2013-07-11 20:31:39 UTC)
20:31:46 <DorpsGek> -Feature [FS#5643]: PING and PONG packets for admin port (Xaroth)
20:33:57 <Eddi|zuHause> next time without the whole google wrap?
20:34:28 <Eddi|zuHause> and what are we supposed to see there?
20:36:07 <Eddi|zuHause> so that's some sort of harvest machine?
20:36:15 <andythenorth> sugarcane hauler
20:36:24 <andythenorth> unloads to narrow gauge rail cars
20:38:44 <Eddi|zuHause> "the theory circulates that the 'information' that snowden might have been on morales' machine was issued by russian FSB, to test the USA's reaction, and to set up the south american leaders against the US"
20:39:09 <frosch123> andythenorth: the closest i came to that ideal was r12346, fixing two fs taks with basically only removing code
20:39:58 <Eddi|zuHause> this is pure cold war game theory :)
20:42:56 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i count two + lines that aren't only comment changes
20:43:42 <frosch123> those lines also only result from previous lines by removing some chars
20:43:59 <frosch123> like "}", "{" and "else" or so
20:45:51 <Eddi|zuHause> if you look back at cold war strategies which are based on game theory, you really notice that americans are poker players, while russians are chess players :p
20:47:04 <andythenorth> makefile editing :(
20:47:35 <planetmaker> what you need, andythenorth ?
20:48:06 <andythenorth> I'm removing the FISH.cfg file that the makefile uses as a target
20:48:17 <andythenorth> so I need to use something else?
20:48:35 <andythenorth> it was bad anyway, I had to use make clean constantly, as that file wasn't changing but codebase was
20:48:38 <Eddi|zuHause> as a target for what?
20:48:51 <andythenorth> not sure, my make knowledge is 'edit + hope'
20:48:56 <andythenorth> fish.nml: src/FISH.cfg $(GENERATE)
20:48:58 <Eddi|zuHause> that means you messed up your dependencies
20:49:26 <Eddi|zuHause> do you have a link to the file?
20:50:00 <andythenorth> planetmaker was AWOL when I did it :D
20:50:17 <andythenorth> so FISH.cfg is removed
20:50:33 <Eddi|zuHause> so, you remove the .cfg, and add _all_ .py files to GENERATE=...
20:51:14 <Alberth> find . -name "*.py" -print
20:51:24 <andythenorth> I wonder how FIRS does it
20:51:28 <andythenorth> FIRS seems to work ok
20:52:07 <Eddi|zuHause> this is how CETS does it
20:53:35 <andythenorth> FIRS doesn't bother looking for deps?
20:53:48 <andythenorth> just rebuilds everything every time make runs?
20:54:21 <andythenorth> hmm, different chain, there's a CPP step for FIRS too
20:54:25 <andythenorth> dunno if that matters
20:55:23 <Eddi|zuHause> having to do "make -B" is bad habit, though
20:55:36 <Alberth> partial rebuild is kind of useless for newgrfs
20:55:56 <Alberth> as you cannot link newgrf object files together
20:56:12 <Eddi|zuHause> well YOU can't :p
20:56:22 <Alberth> so yeah, the only solution is to build it entirely every time
20:56:23 <andythenorth> I am tempted to try :P
20:56:36 <andythenorth> I am fine with building everything every time
20:56:39 <Alberth> andythenorth: Eddi|zuHause has a hack for it
20:57:19 <andythenorth> it might be getting too late for 'teach andythenorth make'
20:57:29 <planetmaker> it basically does what NML set out to start with - until we discovered that it could as well write everything
20:57:36 <Alberth> gnu make manual is very good
20:58:14 <planetmaker> yes, I learnt a lot there :-)
20:58:52 <Alberth> much more than I know ;)
20:58:57 <andythenorth> planetmaker: any way you can figure out which makefile FISH has? (your most up to date version?)
20:59:11 <Eddi|zuHause> "Transparency International: the media are now perceived as more corrupt than the parliament in germany"
21:00:30 <Eddi|zuHause> (only worse are the individual political parties, and the private economy sector)
21:01:29 <andythenorth> I think I need a phony target
21:01:35 <andythenorth> need / is easiest /s
21:02:09 <Eddi|zuHause> you could also write a python dependency analyzer
21:02:44 <Eddi|zuHause> there's already a builtin parser, so you just have to walk the tree and look for import statements
21:03:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i actually wrote such a thing before :)
21:04:18 <andythenorth> 11s build right now
21:04:26 <andythenorth> would that be an optimisation step?
21:04:38 <andythenorth> in fact, not calling nmlc twice *might* be a better optimisation :o
21:04:58 <andythenorth> why _does_ FISH call nmlc twice? :P
21:05:20 <Eddi|zuHause> because of the gfx-dependency calculation
21:05:39 <Eddi|zuHause> you probably didn't update the makefile
21:05:48 <andythenorth> it was just a hack :P
21:06:02 <andythenorth> I think it needs rewriting properly
21:07:22 <planetmaker> if you do that, base it on make-nml
21:07:24 <Eddi|zuHause> just re-import from the makefile project, and keep your makefile.in
21:08:00 <Eddi|zuHause> since you really should not have changed any other files :)
21:08:18 <andythenorth> all I need to change is one target file afaict
21:08:50 <andythenorth> I have tried to read make manual, but basically it's "start at the top" :P
21:09:12 <andythenorth> I usually skip most docs and just read about specific keywords
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21:09:20 <andythenorth> this isn't always good
21:10:40 <planetmaker> andythenorth, the Make manual imho is well-structured... so not reading everything works usually...
21:11:04 <andythenorth> I think I missed a step about key concepts & terminology ;)
21:11:44 <planetmaker> target: dependencies
21:11:57 <planetmaker> rules how to create target from dependency
21:12:27 <andythenorth> neat explanation
21:12:58 <andythenorth> and if the dependency hasn't changed?
21:12:58 <SamanthaD> Question: How close to a road does a building need to be to spawn in a town/city?
21:13:36 <SamanthaD> really?! so how do 3x3 city grids work?!
21:13:49 <andythenorth> gap in the middle
21:13:57 <andythenorth> or filled by 2x2 buildings
21:14:06 <SamanthaD> oh! that makes sense, thanks
21:14:31 <andythenorth> gives you somewhere to put stations whene station walking :P
21:14:57 * andythenorth always station walks in cities
21:14:59 <SamanthaD> What I'm doing is building a "muni" system by replacing every other road with train tracks
21:15:44 <SamanthaD> and do the ends of bridges count as "roads"?
21:17:06 <Xaroth|Work> they do allow roads to be built to them
21:17:10 <Xaroth|Work> iirc there was something odd with them
21:17:18 <Xaroth|Work> that a bridge counted as a road of length 1
21:17:58 <Xaroth|Work> so you could build bridges from the town center out, and when the city grew, skyscrapers would not only form in the center, but also near the bridge ends
21:18:06 <SamanthaD> Thanks! Just as long as buildings will spawn next to the ends I'm good :3
21:18:29 <Xaroth|Work> not sure if buildings will spawn next to the bridge head, or if they really want a road attached to it
21:20:35 <SamanthaD> I guess I'll experiment a bit
21:20:47 <SamanthaD> if anything else, I could just use tunnels under my tracks instead of bridges over them
21:24:55 <SamanthaD> Also, in Cargodist if I have a series of stations on the same "line" (let's call them A - Z) and I service them with two routes, one that stops at every station and one that skips stations, are passengers smart enough to transfer from the local to the express lines when appropriate?
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21:46:53 <Xaroth|Work> Receive_ADMIN_GAMESCRIPT limits received json data to NETWORK_GAMESCRIPT_JSON_LENGTH
21:47:08 <Xaroth|Work> SendGameScript compares it to SEND_MTU (-4)
21:47:25 <Xaroth|Work> so it can send 6 bytes more than it can receive
21:55:41 <Xaroth|Work> thar, patch made and reported
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