IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-07-10
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07:49:54 <Xaroth|Work> planetmaker: suggestion for admin port; a ping packet.. only arg being a uint<something> that is returned by the server
07:50:30 <Xaroth|Work> serves multiple purposes; on some commands like rcon you get an N amount of lines back, so you can follow the rcon with a ping, and know when the rcon command is 'done'
07:50:35 <planetmaker> Xaroth, I guess it makes send
07:50:49 <Xaroth|Work> also, it allows to check the connection's latency
07:51:16 <planetmaker> isn't the rcon output sent in one packet?
07:51:32 <Xaroth|Work> i got one packet per line
07:51:42 <Xaroth|Work> (sending list_cmds as command)
07:52:03 <Xaroth|Work> some commands could potentially send more than one line
07:52:04 <planetmaker> I guess it wouldn't even need a protocoll change
07:52:15 <planetmaker> I'm not opposed to that idea
07:52:39 <Xaroth|Work> just a new packet .. bump a value somewhere to indicate it's supported, and you're done
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07:54:43 <planetmaker> you want to write the patch? :-)
07:55:31 <Xaroth|Work> heh, you sure you want to do that to the codebase? :P
07:55:36 <Xaroth|Work> (I'll give it a go)
08:02:53 <dihedral> i see admin port chat :-)
08:04:01 <dihedral> ping and pong - i'm in on that :-)
08:04:17 <dihedral> Xaroth|Work, do you have connection issues on the admin port?
08:04:26 <dihedral> or what is your intention with the ping on the admin port
08:04:39 <Xaroth|Work> dihedral: mainly I want to see what kind of response time there is
08:04:50 <Xaroth|Work> and there are ways, sure
08:05:24 <Xaroth|Work> also, as an added bonus, rcon commands send N lines back
08:05:36 <Xaroth|Work> and there's no EOL packet to indicate when it's done
08:06:13 <Xaroth|Work> mind, that last bit is a bit hackish
08:06:19 <dihedral> but that is because the admin port does not know when it is done
08:06:24 <Xaroth|Work> and it would be nice for rcon and the likes to tell you when it's done :P
08:07:14 <dihedral> the implementation works with a type of call back (iirc) that works through the same method used to print on the console
08:07:55 <dihedral> and if you fire of two rcon commands on the admin port - how will you know which eol packet belongs to which rcon command?
08:08:05 <dihedral> that is the tricky part
08:08:14 <Xaroth|Work> returning the command as it was sent?
08:08:14 <dihedral> at least in that case
08:08:36 <dihedral> but the command is redirected to the console stuff...
08:09:12 <dihedral> if you receive console updates on the admin port, and someone goes directly to the console on command line and runs commands, you also receive the output
08:09:26 <dihedral> this implementation in that case is not aware of commands and outputs
08:09:34 <dihedral> it only knows the console on a per line bases
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08:10:53 <dihedral> how would you measure latency?
08:10:59 <Xaroth|Work> doesn't IConsoleCmdExec() return when it's done with the command?
08:11:06 <dihedral> send ping with timestamp and receive pong with servers timestamp?
08:11:33 <Xaroth|Work> more simple, send ping with a an int<something> .. server responds with that same payload
08:11:37 <Xaroth|Work> client can then figure it all out
08:11:48 <Xaroth|Work> i ping 1, server pongs 1
08:11:54 <Xaroth|Work> i ping 1337, server pongs 1337
08:12:07 <dihedral> how will you figure out the result with that??
08:12:43 <Xaroth|Work> start = datetime.now() ; send(); wait-for-pong; latency = datetime.now() - start
08:15:25 <Xaroth|Work> there's not much of a use case in knowing microsecond-precision of the connection
08:15:38 <Xaroth|Work> there is, however, a use case in knowing how long it'll take the server to respond to a command
08:17:44 <Xaroth|Work> also, re: EOL for rcon.. unless IConsoleCmdExec does some magic; Receive_ADMIN_RCON can send an extra packet after it's done with IConsoleCmdExec
08:19:55 <dihedral> i think those are two nice additions
08:20:27 * dihedral updates his svn checkout :-D
08:20:30 <Xaroth|Work> one requires a change of the protocol though
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08:21:16 <Xaroth|Work> the ping, well, you can add a feature marker or something to indicate it's there .. but if you're bumping the protocol anyhow :P
08:22:00 <planetmaker> what requires a protocol bump? Did I miss sth?
08:22:28 <Xaroth|Work> and only the protocol version for the admin port, so it's not -that- dramatic :P
08:22:32 <dihedral> but other clients would still be able to handle it, as they could simply ignore the EOL packet
08:22:52 <planetmaker> yes, sure, the admin port's protocol. I wasn't thinking of anything else :-9
08:23:44 <planetmaker> yes, as it's backward compatible I'm not even sure it needs a version-bump
08:23:50 <planetmaker> it's "just" a new packet
08:24:03 <Xaroth|Work> 2 new, but yes, agreed
08:24:19 <Xaroth|Work> you need a way to indicate to clients who support it
08:24:24 <Xaroth|Work> that it's available
08:25:01 <Xaroth|Work> well, if I try to send a ping packet to a server that doesn't support it
08:25:28 <Xaroth|Work> and if I call a rcon, do I wait for the EOL packet, or do I need to do extra magic?
08:25:59 <Xaroth|Work> that, to me, sounds like a required bump
08:26:52 <Xaroth|Work> a version bump of the admin protocol doesn't mean old clients stop to function
08:27:20 <planetmaker> I know. But it adds code complexity :-)
08:29:54 <dihedral> anything that changes protocol bumps the version, clients can then decide if they support the version or not
08:30:50 <Xaroth|Work> the version hasn't been bumped.. ever :P
08:31:22 <Xaroth|Work> I mean.. I see several new functionality packets (communication with GS for example), and NETWORK_GAME_ADMIN_VERSION is still 1
08:31:32 <Xaroth|Work> so I'd say it's time it got a bump :P
08:36:49 <dihedral> if you ask me, that should have had bumped the version of the protocol
08:37:21 <dihedral> but i am sure you can ask the committer for a reason and i am sure the committer has a reason
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08:40:21 <planetmaker> well... OpenTTD bumps versions usually only when the change is not backward compatible
08:40:55 <dihedral> i remember those packets being added to the protocol though
08:40:56 <planetmaker> just adding new packets... doesn't change the protocol. The client just has to handle unknown packets
08:41:48 <dihedral> i am not sure i have logs back far enough - i think i once had a discussion with Rubidium about that
08:42:01 <Xaroth|Work> But then you'd also want a way for clients to be aware of the new available features
08:42:38 <planetmaker> that's what a reported openttd version could do :-)
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08:45:05 <planetmaker> that's how we work with NewGRFs: they state a newgrf version for the principle dialect. And they query the openttd version to check for additional available features
08:46:19 <planetmaker> not saying that it's the best way, though
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08:47:12 <planetmaker> but I see it as speaking English and only learning a new word as opposed to learning french instead
08:52:41 <dihedral> i would not bump the version if i only added data to the end of a packet (server -> bot)
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09:16:31 <dihedral> bad news: i need a live cd
09:16:37 <dihedral> good news: i have a backup
09:31:39 <Xaroth|Work> I need a proper compile env for openttd at work :|
09:54:28 <Xaroth|Work> and I now know again why I prefer python over C++ :P
10:01:27 <Bulwersator> @devs - Currently NoAI API calls may fail with ERR_UNKOWN error code. For the AI developer it is quite irritating as it means "something failed, no idea why and how" (I received bug report with assert triggered by API call that should not be able to fail. AppendOrder failed with ERR_UNKNOWN what means that I know about bug but I have no idea what and how it happened). Is there any reason to not add error codes that would be equivale
10:07:07 <dihedral> planetmaker, Xaroth|Work : bidirectional ping and pong?
10:07:20 <dihedral> i.e. a ping and a pong packet for the admin and a ping and pong packet for the server?
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10:07:35 <dihedral> alternative a ping packet for the admin and a pong packet for the server
10:07:42 <Xaroth|Work> a ping for the client, a pong for the server
10:07:54 <Xaroth|Work> why does the server need a ping? :P
10:08:05 <Xaroth|Work> for what purpose?
10:08:18 <Xaroth|Work> (not to mention that that requires a version bump)
10:08:40 <Xaroth|Work> because the server probably wants a response to that ping?
10:08:49 <Xaroth|Work> old clients ignore the ping
10:09:01 <Xaroth|Work> making the whole server ping => client pong thing useless
10:09:34 <Xaroth|Work> thar, made a FS for it
10:12:05 <Xaroth|Work> wonder if it can be squeezed into 1.3.2 :o
10:12:54 <dihedral> no additional features once rc was released?
10:17:05 <dihedral> he even forgot to add virtual NetworkRecvStatus Receive_SERVER_GAMESCRIPT to core/tcp_admin.h
10:17:58 <Xaroth|Work> there's also a typo in it
10:18:23 <Xaroth|Work> tcp_admin.h: ADMIN_PACKET_SERVER_RCON, ///< The server's reply to a remove console command.
10:23:25 <dihedral> that would probably have been my fault :-D
10:32:00 <Xaroth|Work> bad dih, bad bad dih :P
10:46:37 <planetmaker> dihedral, indeed I don't quite understand why the server ever want to ping an admin port client
10:47:02 <dihedral> that is to complete the GAMESCRIPT stuff
10:49:07 <dihedral> why on earth it was committed in an uncomplete state i do not know - but then that is too long ago to make a fuss :-P
10:49:25 <planetmaker> who knows. probably your fault ;-) :-P
10:50:20 <planetmaker> Bulwersator, there'll always be ERR_UNKNOWN - for the cases not caught. Of course it's feasible to return other error codes, if the failure is known
10:50:47 <dihedral> corrects the typo (remove -> remote)
10:50:55 <dihedral> huge waste of bytes for something like that
11:00:54 <Xaroth|Work> hm, my own patch also lacks the stuff in .h , whoops :P
11:00:59 <Xaroth|Work> ah well, I'll fix it tonight
11:01:56 <planetmaker> I saved the two patches, dihedral. I'll have a look tonight where I have my dev environment
11:06:13 <Xaroth|Work> lol, i failed at my FS request
11:06:17 <Xaroth|Work> set as bug, while it's a feature :|
11:06:34 <planetmaker> I guess there's worse ways to fail
11:06:43 <planetmaker> like setting unwanted assignments ;-)
11:07:04 <Xaroth|Work> that implies that that person had a choice to begin with :)
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11:08:33 <planetmaker> don't you want to break down that into thw two logical parts? :D
11:09:19 <planetmaker> but there you go, changed it to 'patch' and version=trunk for you :-)
11:11:47 <Bulwersator> @planetmaker: Yes, I know. But I want to catch more cases - and before starting patching attempts I want to check whatever there is no conflict with the current design.
11:12:34 <Xaroth|Work> one could discuss if it should be two patches .. but I'm at work, and somewhat lazy, so I decided against giving myself extra work :P
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11:14:14 <Eddi|zuHause> idea for "transfer history": instead of expanding the cargo packet storing a history of all vehicles it used, the vehicle stores a reference to every cargo packet it transferred, the cargo packet only stores a reference count. on cargo delivery, the packet is not immediately destroyed, and on a (daily?) vehicle loop, the referenced transfer packets are checked whether they were delivered, the transfer share is resolved, and the
11:14:15 <Eddi|zuHause> reference count reduced. if the reference count is 0, the packet is then destroyed
11:14:16 <planetmaker> Bulwersator, I see no problem with being more precise with errors other than that it might be difficult in some cases to backtrack the cause. So if you believe you can improve the situation be our guests and create patches :-)
11:14:41 <planetmaker> You might want to join discussion in the evening hours, especially with Zuu
11:15:09 <planetmaker> or create a forum postings
11:15:36 <planetmaker> if European evening hours is inconvenient for your time zone
11:16:54 <planetmaker> well, sometimes forum postings are a good idea nevertheless. They allow to describe the problem and solution (attempts) in more detail. Thus might give a good basis to start a discussion
11:17:24 <planetmaker> I meant back-tracking as in getting the result out from the callbacks to the squirrel-API
11:17:42 <planetmaker> Generally the AI should get the same level of feedback as humans do
11:17:55 <planetmaker> thus error messages as precise (or unprecise)
11:19:44 <planetmaker> in the case of FS#5641, I guess, a more precise feedback sounds quite sane, though
11:19:59 <planetmaker> what do you get as player when dragging it?
11:26:18 <planetmaker> Xaroth, hehe, I understand :-9
11:33:18 <dihedral> Xaroth|Work, do you have time to test a patch?
11:34:16 <dihedral> that's your ping pong packet for the admin ;-)
11:34:39 <Xaroth|Work> i already made that?
11:35:18 <Xaroth|Work> bar the virtuals that I forgot
11:36:48 <dihedral> split the RconEnd out of it then i do not have to make that patch either :-P
11:36:50 <Xaroth|Work> (and I linked it on irc ~90 min ago :P )
11:37:00 <dihedral> RconEnd and SendPong do not have to be public
11:37:14 <dihedral> yeah - i am trying to rescue a server (on the side) :-D
11:37:38 <dihedral> personally i would have named it SERVER_RCON_EOF :-P but that does not matter actually
11:38:09 <Xaroth|Work> it's not really a file ending, nor a line ending, at least, that was my thought train on it
11:39:34 <dihedral> EO_MY_FUZZY_LITTLE... :-D
11:40:16 <dihedral> i think it's good, i would just split it into two patches, as the RCON_END has nothing to do with playing ping pong
11:40:23 <dihedral> funny just how similar our ping pong patches are :-)
11:40:34 <Xaroth|Work> you can't really differ much in something that simple tbh
11:40:47 <dihedral> but you can differ :-)
11:40:58 <dihedral> SendPong could be different
11:41:21 <dihedral> well - i do have the debug message and my method is not public
11:41:36 <dihedral> and my payload is called d1 as in other methods too
11:41:53 <Xaroth|Work> yeh, I'd vote against the debug message tbh
11:43:20 <Xaroth|Work> ADMIN_POLL only logs when there's something wrong
11:43:32 <Xaroth|Work> so does ADMIN_UPDATE_FREQUENCY
11:44:02 <Xaroth|Work> yeh, i never understood that one either
11:44:20 <Xaroth|Work> especially if you have some form of stats transmission between GS and admin
11:44:25 <Xaroth|Work> your console will be spammed to boot
11:44:58 <Xaroth|Work> though you can argue that that actually changes something on the server, so it should be logged
11:45:07 <Xaroth|Work> same with ADMIN_RCON
11:45:12 <dihedral> they are debug messages
11:45:31 <dihedral> hence they can be turned off with corresponding log levels
11:47:20 <dihedral> i think consistency is quite important, and if something like that should be changed, it should be removed from the others first
11:47:37 <Xaroth|Work> well it depends on impact if you'd ask me
11:49:10 <Xaroth|Work> or at least raise the debug level for that message to 4 or something
11:49:14 <dihedral> well - it is true, ping and pong are the least important packets i can think of :-D
11:49:16 <Xaroth|Work> so it doesn't drown out more important messages
11:49:35 <dihedral> how often do you plan to ping? :-D
11:49:51 <dihedral> rcon and gamescript is game influencing
11:49:59 <Xaroth|Work> that's not up to me to define; I just make a library :P
11:50:03 <dihedral> ping and pong have no meaning except for the bot
11:50:07 <Xaroth|Work> if people want to ping 5000 times with my lib, I don't care
11:51:04 <dihedral> so if i want to send 5000 rcon echo commands i can, which has the same affect - shall i disable the debug message in that case?
11:51:27 <Xaroth|Work> no, rcon has the ability to mess with the server
11:51:34 <Xaroth|Work> rcon has a potential severe impact
11:52:58 <NCG3982> The Swedish Trainset is so ..easy.
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12:57:28 <Bulwersator> planetmaker: "Cant't build railway station here" what is also at least misleading (problem is not with place, problem is with request station type) (reply to "[13:19] <@planetmaker> what do you get as player when dragging it?")
13:07:53 <planetmaker> sounds like it has potential for improvement
13:08:11 <planetmaker> not sure whether it's easy, though. It's the NewGRF's decision
13:09:31 <Bulwersator> I think that some form of "NewGrf refuses to allow station construction" would be better
13:10:18 <planetmaker> yes. It could also return "wrong size for station type"
13:10:42 <planetmaker> if it's feasible to integrate that there. I didn't look at station code
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14:40:24 <Xaroth|Work> hm, so I got two patches now, for the same file(s), affecting areas roughtly the same location(s) .. obviously this means if you apply one patch, the other will fail... should I care?
14:41:40 <planetmaker> you should care by giving them sequential numbering. Or by making them both apply to clean trunk
14:41:59 <planetmaker> numbering, if you make it one issue :-)
14:42:12 <Xaroth|Work> they both write to the end of the same enum
14:42:15 <Xaroth|Work> so if one applies, the other fails
14:42:20 <Xaroth|Work> regardless of the order
14:42:35 <Xaroth|Work> I can apply either to clean trunk, no problemo
14:42:54 <planetmaker> patch queue anyone? :-)
14:43:57 <planetmaker> if it's different issues, make them both apply to trunk. And... let the committer worry about the needed update
14:44:28 <planetmaker> if it's one issue: choose order and make it so they apply in the chosen order
14:44:59 <Xaroth|Work> one is RCON_END, other is PING/PONG
14:45:48 <dihedral> they should be separate
14:45:57 <dihedral> if you ask me, as they are 2 different things
14:46:08 <Xaroth|Work> but as said, if I apply X first, Y fails due to hunks failing
14:46:14 <planetmaker> then don't worry that they don't apply on top of eachother
14:46:15 <Xaroth|Work> if I apply Y first, X fails due to hunks failing
14:47:07 <planetmaker> but we could consider it as "update sequence". So... I don't really care either way :-)
14:47:39 <dihedral> you just need to resolve the conflict, and i think that is very simple
14:48:33 <Xaroth|Work> too late; already compiling :P
14:49:11 <dihedral> do you have an updated patch for me to look at?
14:49:52 <Xaroth|Work> nothing that passed a compile check
14:50:11 <dihedral> does not matter, perhaps i can help ;-)
14:50:19 <Xaroth|Work> meh, I like fucking about
14:50:27 <Xaroth|Work> means I might actually learn me some C
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15:00:50 <dihedral> do we need anything else in that respect?
15:05:29 <dihedral> i mean - while we are at it ... :-P
15:06:35 <Xaroth|Work> well, capturing a small screenshot would be cool .. but I doubt useful for the admin port :P
15:06:51 <Xaroth|Work> i.e. have a bot monitor changes, and in some cases take screenshots of that area
15:07:12 <dihedral> that should be done with a modified client :-P
15:07:16 <planetmaker> it would require screenshot support via rcon... yes, would be cool. But I wasn't convincing in that respect before
15:07:41 <Xaroth|Work> heh, this works :D
15:07:41 <Xaroth|Work> >>> a.recv_packet()
15:07:42 <Xaroth|Work> (<PacketID: 125 :: ServerRconEnd>, {'command': 'echo 1'})
15:07:57 <dihedral> modified client, should do the job
15:08:19 <planetmaker> dihedral, running a modified client separately for that is... boring IMHO. And a real ressource hog
15:08:25 <Xaroth|Work> one of the more fun things I found from the whole mincraft stuff
15:08:35 <Xaroth|Work> is that they have a fetish with displaying their map for all to see
15:08:46 <Xaroth|Work> so there's a fair few projects who read the world data
15:08:52 <Xaroth|Work> and make a google maps interface for it
15:08:53 <dihedral> planetmaker, i'd rather have the resourcehog somewhere else than on the dedicated server, if the resource hog is merely there for making screenshots
15:09:06 <planetmaker> dihedral, that does not take additional ressources really
15:09:30 <Xaroth|Work> right, both patches seem to function :P
15:09:49 <dihedral> show me show me show me :-P
15:10:07 <Xaroth|Work> pretty much the same as the old one
15:10:15 <Xaroth|Work> but split up into two
15:11:48 <planetmaker> and all calculations have to be done anyway
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15:12:36 <dihedral> Xaroth|Work, i would not make NetworkRecvStatus SendPong(uint32 payload); a public method
15:13:06 <dihedral> keep it private, as nobody else should be able to send a pong packet other then the network part when a ping is received
15:15:10 <dihedral> same for NetworkRecvStatus SendRconEnd(const char *command);
15:15:56 <dihedral> would it make sense to introduce 2 packets instead of 1?
15:16:08 <dihedral> and use an id instead of a string?
15:16:19 <dihedral> i.d. start 12345 and end 12345
15:16:29 <dihedral> and in between those two you receive your data
15:17:00 <dihedral> and the id is a hash of the command
15:17:09 <dihedral> so that both sides can calculate the hash
15:17:47 <dihedral> might be overkill to work with an id, but it's more useful for programs if you ask me
15:18:40 <planetmaker> hm, I err on the screenshot
15:18:42 <dihedral> other than those thoughts Xaroth|Work i think the patches are great :-)
15:18:53 <Xaroth|Work> not bad for somebody who doesn't really do C++ :P
15:19:30 <Xaroth|Work> only because it worked first compile :P
15:21:12 <dihedral> comments on RCON_START packet? and an hash as id of the command instead of the command itself?
15:22:24 <Xaroth|Work> doable, but not really that useful
15:22:31 <Xaroth|Work> you already get the command back
15:22:53 <Xaroth|Work> and you get your stuff back in the same order you requested it
15:30:38 <dihedral> do we have other end packets?
15:31:06 <dihedral> or would it be wise to create a global EOT packet which sends the id of the network packet in question to communicate it's end
15:31:22 <dihedral> e.g. SERVER_CMD_NAMES
15:31:35 <dihedral> iirc this has no end packet, but can span over multiple tcp packets
15:37:42 <peter1139> anyone familiar with ASA?
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15:38:48 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25579 trunk/src/script/api/script_list.hpp (2013-07-10 15:38:42 UTC)
15:38:49 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5642] (r25577): doxygen generation failed + typo fix
15:39:39 <Rubidium> peter1139: if you mean acetylsalicylic acid, then yes
15:44:12 <Eddi|zuHause> that one shold be ASS :p
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15:46:16 <dihedral> peter1139, a tiny bit
15:50:20 <peter1139> so i have the ipsec vpn set up to require rsa-sig for 2-factor authentication for client-access
15:50:37 <peter1139> i need to set up a fixed-ip site-to-site vpn which is preshared key
15:51:03 <peter1139> afaict i can't do that without removing the 2-factor auth on the client access vpn :S
15:52:13 <dihedral> above topic is not covered by my definition of "tiny bit"
16:14:44 <planetmaker> Xaroth, where's your patches now?
16:32:31 <Elukka> so, playing openttd after a bit of a hiatus, i've got a new and exciting problem
16:32:44 <Elukka> it throws everyone out from my game because "downloading the map took too long"
16:33:01 <Elukka> the game insists the max_download_time console command doesn't exist and having pause on join on doesn't seem to make a difference
16:35:33 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a setting, not a command
16:36:49 <Elukka> i just made the assumption i'd plonk it into the console since the wiki doesn't actually tell you what they are :P
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16:39:03 <Eddi|zuHause> well all settings have the same "set" command... it's really simple
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17:01:32 <Elukka> something that would be useful with FIRS and it's however many types of industries would be some way to find certain types of industry in the local area
17:04:15 <planetmaker> use minimap, Elukka
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17:17:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: you can enable and disable industries on the minimap
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17:24:49 <Elukka> huh. there's a basic feature i didn't know of
17:24:57 <Elukka> that is the smallest text in the world though! :P
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17:27:14 <Eddi|zuHause> you can also use the industry chains
17:45:43 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25580 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2013-07-10 17:45:33 UTC)
17:45:44 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:45 <DorpsGek> japanese - 578 changes by guppy
17:45:46 <DorpsGek> norwegian_bokmal - 49 changes by cuthbert
17:45:47 <DorpsGek> russian - 33 changes by Lone_Wolf
17:45:48 <DorpsGek> slovak - 13 changes by Milsa
17:47:00 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25581 /trunk (9 files in 2 dirs) (2013-07-10 17:46:54 UTC)
17:47:01 <DorpsGek> -Fix: WT3 validation
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17:56:29 <andythenorth> newgrf conflicts
17:56:36 <andythenorth> and Moar Newgrfs plz
17:56:42 <andythenorth> just another forum day
17:56:48 <andythenorth> nice that people are posting though :)
17:57:04 <andythenorth> are there actually 63 decent newgrfs?
17:57:09 <andythenorth> I've only found about 9
17:57:41 <andythenorth> and I contributed to 5 of those :P
17:57:43 <Xaroth|Work> planetmaker: the links i posted earlier
17:57:50 <Xaroth|Work> will put them in the bugreport
17:58:15 * Rubidium likes the insta-load HEQS trams ;)
17:58:32 <Rubidium> though most other vehicle sets are annoying because of wagon speed limits
17:59:12 <frosch123> you can disable them, can't you?
18:01:26 * andythenorth is about to do "my first python subclass"
18:01:40 <andythenorth> although strictly I've subclassed 'object' before :P
18:01:47 <Xaroth|Work> shouldn't be that hard tbh
18:06:08 <planetmaker> Xaroth, if I had seen the links obviously, I hadn't asked...
18:06:50 <Xaroth|Work> you replied on IRC like one minute after I posted them, lol
18:08:47 <planetmaker> I expected you to update the FS issue instead of hiding them in the depth of transient IRC chatter
18:09:37 <Xaroth|Work> yeh, I intended to
18:09:39 <Xaroth|Work> until a customer called
18:09:43 <Xaroth|Work> and I actually had to do something :P
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18:13:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i hate when that happens :p
18:18:23 <Xaroth|Work> you'd imagine they'd leave you alone
18:18:56 <frosch123> you should try to get public customers
18:19:10 <frosch123> they won't call after 1700, and not after 1200 on fridays
18:22:26 * V453000 slaps planetmaker around a bit with a large fishbot
18:22:52 * frosch123 slaps V with a wet rail
18:22:58 <Wolf01> I'm a proud owner of the Lego 10237: Tower of Orthanc :D
18:23:30 <V453000> oh I slapped people :D missclick
18:23:42 <andythenorth> frosch123: unless the minister is launching something the next day, in which case they call your mobile at home
18:23:48 <Eddi|zuHause> hello, Saruman01
18:24:30 <frosch123> andythenorth: did some black suited men escort you to work?
18:24:49 * andythenorth doesn't work for a secret organisation :P
18:24:55 <andythenorth> and if I did, I couldn't tell you ;)
18:25:24 <andythenorth> now you spoiled the big ending :)
18:25:52 <Wolf01> that's the next thing I need to purchase, I have a little stash @work and I need various bricks and plates
18:25:52 <planetmaker> yes, I plead guilty :-)
18:26:15 <planetmaker> I'm daily tempted to open it - but I must not yet spoil it
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18:29:29 <frosch123> Xaroth|Work: does your company also give such merchandising to customers?
18:29:42 <andythenorth> anybody smart enough to parse this into something approximating Python class declaration with props?
18:29:47 <andythenorth> doesn't have to be perfect
18:30:02 <andythenorth> I want to stop parsing a config file, it's over-engineered faff
18:30:05 <frosch123> might work in financial business
18:30:46 <andythenorth> I previously parsed FIRS nml into python declarations
18:30:50 <andythenorth> but I forget how :P
18:31:19 <frosch123> convert it into csv
18:31:43 <frosch123> write an nfo export filter for excel
18:31:49 <andythenorth> any python debugging tools print an object repr. showing me all the attributes?
18:31:58 <Xaroth|Work> frosch123: i wish
18:32:02 <andythenorth> frosch123: then print it, fax it, scan in the fax, and have my secretary email it?
18:32:35 <frosch123> andythenorth: and then visit personally to ask about the mail
18:32:46 <Xaroth|Work> andythenorth: pdb
18:32:53 <andythenorth> I'll call to ask you to read it out over the phone
18:33:01 <andythenorth> I'll then type it in manually
18:33:40 <Xaroth|Work> also, the inspect module can do some bits
18:33:56 <Xaroth|Work> get the proper frame
18:34:01 <Xaroth|Work> show all locals and globals and whatnog
18:35:08 <andythenorth> I never learnt to use pdb
18:35:12 <andythenorth> is tonight the night?
18:35:31 <Xaroth|Work> i never bothered with it
18:35:46 <Xaroth|Work> i do most my stuff in django.. it's exception handler shows me a purdy html page with all that info :P
18:38:16 <andythenorth> I'll just render out values with a text processor :P
18:39:43 <andythenorth> vars(obj) is my friend
18:39:47 <andythenorth> in conjuction with print :)
18:40:00 <andythenorth> sticks out a dict
18:40:04 <Xaroth|Work> pprint over print tbh
18:41:15 <Xaroth|Work> pretty formatting
18:41:35 <Xaroth|Work> from pprint import pprint; pprint(obj.__dict__)
18:41:41 <frosch123> hmm, using sshfs to conntect to localhost is so weird
18:45:27 <Wolf01> \o/ deleted 18GB of error logs
18:46:21 <Eddi|zuHause> compressed or uncompressed?
18:47:09 <Wolf01> 17GB were all in one txt
18:47:36 <Wolf01> my rotate script stopped working at the start of the year and I noticed it just some days ago
18:48:06 <frosch123> devzone had some diskspace issues due to a similar problem
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18:50:58 <planetmaker> dihedral, the admin port patches... how does it behave with your reference implementation, with Joan?
18:51:21 <Xaroth|Work> I suspect dih already has something ready to implement it :P
18:53:12 <planetmaker> Xaroth, since when do you actually use svn? :D
18:53:23 * andythenorth loves that python allows incompetents to achieve results
18:53:45 <Xaroth|Work> planetmaker: since.. a long time?
18:53:46 <andythenorth> I should deal with strings better :P
18:53:55 <andythenorth> currently I'll have to manually fix them :P
18:54:02 <planetmaker> I just wondered... I didn't have an svn-style patch in a long time :D
18:54:20 <Xaroth|Work> planetmaker: tortoisesvn :)
18:54:20 <planetmaker> most use hg or git for development. And only svn to commit ;-)
18:54:34 <Xaroth|Work> I use svn for my home download system :)
18:55:22 <Xaroth|Work> I don't mind git.. we use it for opendune .. it's more a tool to an end
18:55:35 <andythenorth> quickest way to check 'is string'?
18:55:43 <andythenorth> besides try/except hackery?
18:55:46 <Xaroth|Work> isinstance(x, basestring)
18:57:14 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: just put str(whatever) and don't bother?
18:57:29 <Eddi|zuHause> isinstance breaks duck-typing
18:57:37 <andythenorth> that doesn't quite work for my output
18:57:48 <andythenorth> I want strings to be output with quote marks
18:57:51 <andythenorth> and other types not
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19:00:03 <Xaroth|Work> self.log("Something something: '%r'", object)
19:00:15 <Xaroth|Work> %r does repr-like representation
19:00:29 <Xaroth|Work> or without the ' ' around it
19:00:43 <Xaroth|Work> for strings you'd usually get 'u'text''
19:00:46 <Eddi|zuHause> did you mean %(object,)?
19:00:52 <andythenorth> ho, this is turning into a code generator
19:01:13 <andythenorth> everyone knows code generators are bad right? :P
19:01:42 <Xaroth|Work> code generatores are not bad by definition
19:02:10 <Xaroth|Work> they just allow people to do stuff they shouldn't be doing :P
19:02:11 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: based on your initial question, code a generator is exactly what you wanted :p
19:02:26 <andythenorth> I also am late for dinner
19:02:33 <Eddi|zuHause> s/code a/a code/
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19:39:03 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by rubidium :: r25582 /branches/1.3 (5 files in 4 dirs) (2013-07-10 19:38:53 UTC)
19:39:04 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: [1.3] -Backport from trunk:
19:39:05 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: [Script] Documentation implied that XXList::AddItem has a default for value if it isn't filled in [FS#5638] (r25579, r25577)
19:39:06 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Make content list appear faster (r25573)
19:39:07 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Non-ICU layouter started new lines with the space which triggered the linebreak (r25568)
19:41:37 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25583 /branches/1.3 (6 files in 2 dirs) (2013-07-10 19:41:31 UTC)
19:41:38 <DorpsGek> [1.3] -Backport from trunk:
19:41:39 <DorpsGek> - Fix: Layouter caused significant slowdown with text heavy windows, cache it to make it managable (r25574, r25570, r25569, r25567, r25564)
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19:57:07 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25584 /branches/1.3/src/lang (26 files) (2013-07-10 19:57:02 UTC)
19:57:08 <DorpsGek> [1.3] -Backport from trunk: language updates
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20:45:00 <planetmaker> bed time. good night :-)
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20:57:15 <Eddi|zuHause> wasn't that already like a week ago?
20:57:22 <andythenorth> news is still emerging
20:57:28 <andythenorth> it went quiet for a bit
20:57:31 <andythenorth> now it's front page again
20:58:11 <Eddi|zuHause> a german TV station cancelled a showing of a train wreck movie
21:00:03 <__ln__> it was on saturday, barely half a week
21:10:01 <Eddi|zuHause> (that was about 2 years ago, i think)
21:10:40 <Eddi|zuHause> they determined that the station operator was drunk
21:23:31 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: I'd reckon that 750 meters of such a train crashing would be similarly destructive
21:28:51 <andythenorth> it's all a bit too intricate right now :P
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23:09:32 <dolcea> how do i save the dedicated server??
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23:15:29 <Eddi|zuHause> type "save" in the console?
23:16:02 <Eddi|zuHause> alternatively, you can save from the client with rcon, or just make a local savegame with the client and upload it to the server
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