IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-06-26
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07:59:27 <andythenorth> it would be evil to not provide TE_WATER cargo in this economy
07:59:53 <andythenorth> or to make BEER have TE_WATER :P
08:01:45 <planetmaker> seven bear is also a small meal. And then you haven't even drunk anything ;-)
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10:03:06 <andythenorth> anyone find FIRS games take 10 mins for map gen? (1024x1024) ?
10:06:49 <juzza1> inspired by the forum post i tested it, 2048x2048 took about 20 seconds
10:06:59 <lugo> not me, and i have a quite old notebook (1,3ghz single core), takes about a minute
10:20:14 <kero> andythenorth absolutely not. Some second here (coulnd't tell exactly)
10:20:50 <kero> he probably has some specific problem
10:22:08 <__ln__> what would be an interesting place to spend ~3 days in central germany?
10:23:22 <kero> There's a nice episcopal palace to visit, and there is good wine :)
10:24:45 <__ln__> ok, that is a possibility.
10:26:44 <kero> Bamberg is also probably pretty, but i've never been
10:31:26 <__ln__> any opinions on Wuppertal?
10:39:40 <__ln__> yes, i've tested that and it was cool, but i don't really remember anything else of the city.
10:44:18 <kero> I don't know Wuppertal, but I've heard nice things about Köln, which is quite near
10:50:56 <andythenorth> I like Cologne a lot
11:06:29 <Eddi|zuHause> you can find things to visit in any medium sized city
11:07:00 <Eddi|zuHause> and neither Köln nor Würzburg are in "central germany" :p
11:07:28 <Eddi|zuHause> the "center" of germany is probably around Erfurt
11:08:21 <Eddi|zuHause> you can walk from braunschweig to erfurt, that should take roughly 3 days :p
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11:11:09 <__ln__> that would actually be interesting :)
11:12:00 <planetmaker> 3 days, Eddi|zuHause ?
11:12:10 <Eddi|zuHause> google says 35 hours, so if you walk 12 hours a day
11:12:11 <planetmaker> you're a quick walker
11:12:24 <planetmaker> and you walk 12 hours a day?
11:12:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not crazy :p
11:12:42 <planetmaker> you haven't done a lot of hiking, did you?
11:12:55 <tokai|noir> Eddi|zuHause: Niederdorla claims to be the center of Germany :)
11:13:28 <tokai|noir> Not too far from here, I can easily reach it with bike in few hours. :)
11:13:30 <planetmaker> many places claim that. with different reasons and different... quality of claims
11:15:36 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: anyway, my father has this project where he wants to walk from Nordhausen to Ilsenburg in 1 days, but he never fully succeeded
11:16:13 <tokai|noir> planetmaker: From my point of view the center is always under my feet. From there I can look all around. :)
11:16:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not that fond of hiking myself :)
11:16:44 <planetmaker> tokai|noir, there we agree. Only on the definition of "my" we differ :-)
11:17:14 <andythenorth> must be weird living in the middle of a large landmass
11:17:24 * andythenorth is 5 miles from the sea and prefers it that way
11:17:34 <andythenorth> sea / big muddy estuary /s
11:18:09 <kero> if it's not to personal question :)
11:18:40 <tokai|noir> andythenorth: Still better in the mid of Germany or Europe than in the mid of the Sahara, Gobi or Siberia (though Siberia probably has its charm :) )
11:20:41 <Eddi|zuHause> there was this story a while back about a russian family who lived for decades in an otherwise uninhabited stretch of mountains in sibiria
11:21:54 <Eddi|zuHause> they had no contact with other humans fromt he mid-40s to like the 80s, when some geological survey group stumbled upon them
11:23:45 <tokai|noir> Sounds like those cases of Japanese soldiers who protected some small islands by themselves years after Word War II. :)
11:24:17 <Eddi|zuHause> originally the family fled from religious suppression
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14:16:32 <Eddi|zuHause> at least if you disable cookies and javascript
15:02:22 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25474 trunk/src/os/macosx/osx_stdafx.h (2013-06-26 15:02:16 UTC)
15:02:23 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5618]: OS X compilation failure
15:39:52 <Mazur> Is there a shortcut to select a type of rail when building rail?
15:42:42 <planetmaker> there's a setting for 'last used' 'most used' and maybe it also has the option 'first available'
15:43:40 <Mazur> Yeah, I´m working with two types at the same time.
15:44:50 <Mazur> Maglev for Pax and electrified for freight.
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17:45:36 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25475 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2013-06-26 17:45:27 UTC)
17:45:37 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:38 <DorpsGek> czech - 59 changes by Eskymak
17:45:39 <DorpsGek> luxembourgish - 8 changes by Phreeze
17:45:40 <DorpsGek> slovak - 27 changes by Milsa
17:45:41 <DorpsGek> thai - 4 changes by nirakanz
17:55:40 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause can you recall what we think is slow about nml compiles? Is it walking all the switches to resolve identifiers down to bytes?
17:55:47 <andythenorth> I recall that being discussed
17:56:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know anymore, i circumvented all parts of nml except reading in the parse tree (ply)
17:57:07 <Eddi|zuHause> expression resolving (operators, etc.) was also really slow
17:58:02 <Eddi|zuHause> so i put all template offset calculations into the python steop
17:58:34 <andythenorth> that's interesting
17:58:39 <Eddi|zuHause> writing the graphics wasn't fast either
17:58:55 <andythenorth> iirc the spritecache sped that up?
17:58:55 <Eddi|zuHause> but i now use grfcodec for that
17:59:10 <Eddi|zuHause> so i can't really say whether the cache helped
17:59:11 <andythenorth> maybe I should change the pipeline and put grfcodec in it
17:59:47 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you should change your workflow so you don't do "make clean" every time :p
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18:04:53 <Eddi|zuHause> what was also slow was that the dep run basically did everything twice, so i completely removed that and wrote the deps from the python step as well
18:05:35 <Eddi|zuHause> the dep run reads through the nml file and outputs all used graphics files
18:05:44 <andythenorth> I wonder if planetmaker changed that
18:05:53 <andythenorth> I don't think I see that happen anymore
18:06:04 <Eddi|zuHause> since i know in the python step which graphics files i put in there, i can use that information right there to generate the deps file
18:06:17 <andythenorth> I could do that too :P
18:06:34 <andythenorth> 2m24 to compile FIRS
18:06:42 <andythenorth> better than 3m, but not great
18:06:49 <andythenorth> nfo FIRS was ~20s :(
18:07:09 <andythenorth> still, means I get to watch a lot of YT :P
18:07:28 <Eddi|zuHause> CETS is more like 17m (but -j6 able, so 17/6 'real' time)
18:08:11 <andythenorth> I could put python multiprocessing on the preprocess step
18:08:16 <andythenorth> that would get me maybe a 3x increase
18:08:25 <planetmaker> in the newest versions I removed that, yes
18:08:28 <andythenorth> so I might save 2s :P
18:09:00 <Eddi|zuHause> you removed the deps run from the makefile?
18:09:23 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: so is resolving expressions like this believed slow?
18:09:24 <andythenorth> hide_sprite: (climate != CLIMATE_ARCTIC) || (climate == CLIMATE_ARCTIC) && ((nearby_tile_height(0, 0) < (snowline_height - 1)) || (nearby_tile_height(0, 0) >= (snowline_height + 0)));
18:10:24 <andythenorth> I have a crapload of those :P
18:10:36 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: possible, but those are expressions you can't simplify. i had lots of expressions (a+2*b+x-y) which gave a compile-time result
18:11:00 <andythenorth> where it's obvious to me, I do that in python too
18:11:08 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, yes, I did
18:11:22 <andythenorth> I wonder if I should just write myself a more complicated preprocessor
18:11:23 <planetmaker> it's only used, if you use graphics generation
18:11:35 <andythenorth> so I can compile individual industries with a parameter
18:11:45 <planetmaker> but then also in a different manner which does not need creating the nml first
18:11:49 <andythenorth> can python do conditional imports?
18:12:13 <Eddi|zuHause> if <condition>: import blah
18:12:19 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that should be possible
18:12:44 <planetmaker> andythenorth, #ifdef PARAMETER
18:12:49 <planetmaker> #include blah.pnml
18:13:20 <andythenorth> ho, that's interesting
18:13:33 <andythenorth> I generate the pnml file with the includes
18:13:34 <Eddi|zuHause> it's "#endif" :p
18:13:37 <andythenorth> so I could do that
18:14:19 <andythenorth> the problem is that industries reference each other
18:14:30 <andythenorth> which is explodey for partial compiles
18:14:33 <andythenorth> but I could also fix that
18:15:41 <andythenorth> doesn't solve the industries referencing each other
18:16:04 <andythenorth> then teach the makefile about a parameter
18:16:37 <planetmaker> make -DPARAMETER=XX
18:16:59 <andythenorth> a single industry is a 20s compile
18:17:08 <planetmaker> hm... but might need for the gcc options
18:17:10 <andythenorth> much better when all I want to do is fix graphics etc
18:18:06 <andythenorth> hmm. An industry with simple graphics is ~10s to compile
18:29:50 <andythenorth> so I'd need to wrap #ifdef around the neighbouring industry check for every industry
18:30:31 <ZxBiohazardZx> i have "Sort By v "
18:30:34 <ZxBiohazardZx> Station: Waiting
18:30:47 <ZxBiohazardZx> Group by "Via-Destination-Source"
18:31:02 <ZxBiohazardZx> why can i not sort it by "ammount" via ?
18:31:25 <ZxBiohazardZx> ammount: waiting :P
18:31:52 <andythenorth> is it bad to litter my code with conditionals that only exist for optimising compile times?
18:49:59 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25476 trunk/src/gfx.cpp (2013-06-26 18:49:53 UTC)
18:50:00 <DorpsGek> -Cleanup: Remove unused _max_char_size, _max_char_height, _max_char_width.
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19:10:28 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25477 trunk/src/gfx.cpp (2013-06-26 19:10:22 UTC)
19:10:29 <DorpsGek> -Fix: truncation didn't work because the string was truncated (or rather a newline was added) too early
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19:25:59 <andythenorth> planetmaker: you busy, or want to help me figure out selective compiles?
19:27:47 <Rubidium> orudge: you got speed with the Thalys wifi network?
19:27:59 <planetmaker> I try to find stuff in xussr currently
19:28:02 <Rubidium> or rather, the wifi network worked?
19:28:45 <Rubidium> last time it worked, it took about two minutes to update the simple "departure times at station X page" of the train company
19:29:05 <Rubidium> and for sending a small mail I needed only about half an hour
19:35:46 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25478 trunk/src/gfx.cpp (2013-06-26 19:35:40 UTC)
19:35:47 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Clip glyphs using the actual sprite dimensions instead of the text advancement.
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20:30:02 <TomyLobo> in 1.3.1 multiplayer, can I change the "vehicle breakdowns" setting without starting a new game?
20:30:37 <frosch123> what happens if you try?
20:31:11 <TomyLobo> i cant find the difficulty settings dialog
20:31:24 <frosch123> it's all in advanced settings
20:38:38 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25479 trunk/src/economy.cpp (2013-06-26 20:38:32 UTC)
20:38:39 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r23861): [NewGRF] When cargo NewGRF define a mulitplier to modify vehicle capacities, use the same multiplier to modify loading speed.
20:41:02 <orudge> Rubidium: I seem to recall so, yes
20:41:05 <orudge> I'm not sure how accurate it was, mind you
20:44:56 <orudge> but I'm sure at one point it was reporting 300km/h-ish
20:48:42 <TomyLobo> i keep accidentally skipping orders by pressing D
20:49:01 <TomyLobo> when i want to get the destroy tool instead
20:49:12 <frosch123> edit ~/.openttd/hotkeys.cfg and change the hotkey assignment
20:49:37 <TomyLobo> i'm the host of a game right now. can i reload that file while the game is running?
20:49:45 <TomyLobo> or even bind it via the console?
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21:17:15 <DorpsGek> Commit by michi_cc :: r25480 /trunk (config.lib src/os/macosx/osx_stdafx.h) (2013-06-26 21:17:09 UTC)
21:17:16 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: [OSX] OS X SDK versions >= 10.5 always have a non-const iconv declaration.
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21:44:04 <andythenorth> I need a name for a plantation that grows fibre crops (sisal and cotton)
21:44:14 <andythenorth> 'plantation' is too generic :P
21:44:21 <andythenorth> 'cotton plantation' is too specific
21:46:31 <andythenorth> he he, I'm running out of industry ids :)
21:47:38 <andythenorth> also out of battery :P
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