IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-06-25
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06:14:35 <andythenorth> should I have 'make clean' remove cache files used by a templating engine?
06:23:11 <planetmaker> I should check whether it actually removes nml caches :-)
06:23:55 <andythenorth> I always use make clean & make install
06:24:05 <andythenorth> for historical reasons that may no longer be valid
06:24:21 <andythenorth> if I continue that practice, I will make all caches pointless :P
06:24:39 <andythenorth> anyway, FIRS templating step can now be *much* faster
06:25:07 <planetmaker> it should make all caches pointless. Doing so is the point of cleaning
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07:49:18 <andythenorth> my caches aren't being used in the context of the makefile
07:53:49 <andythenorth> maybe environment vars aren't set when a module is imported
07:54:15 <andythenorth> ok, so I have to set environment vars again
07:54:30 <andythenorth> bit bureaucratic
08:04:45 <planetmaker> why do you have to do that? Simply clean the cache files. You know their names, no?
08:07:13 <andythenorth> different issue ;)
08:07:18 <andythenorth> the clean is fine
08:07:46 <andythenorth> cache wasn't being used - now fixed
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10:15:09 <peter1138> This my boss does that Frustrating
10:15:53 <peter1138> Things my boss does that frustrate me: When asked to "search" for an email, will actually search through the message list looking for something, instead of... just using the search tool...
10:16:40 <Xaroth|Work> things that colleagues do that frustrate me
10:16:46 <Xaroth|Work> instead of googling keywords in the search bar
10:16:50 <Xaroth|Work> they search google
10:17:00 <Xaroth|Work> then search what they need to search
10:18:57 <Xaroth|Work> or, our office manager does this
10:19:06 <Xaroth|Work> using the trash folder of their mailbox
10:19:12 <Xaroth|Work> as their general 'stuff to put mail in'
10:19:20 <Xaroth|Work> so if she needs an old email
10:19:42 <Xaroth|Work> she'll usually find up realising that the mail was too old, and was since deleted, because it was in a trash folder......
10:20:33 <TinoDidriksen> You'd think she'd learn after a few times.
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10:25:08 <Xaroth|Work> you'd think so...
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11:02:22 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: it's not below, it's above (otherwise you couldn't introduce a new entry in the beginning)
11:06:39 <planetmaker> yes, saw your posting. I fixed mine. thanks
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11:40:24 <Eddi|zuHause> "Angela Merkel at greek passport checkpoint: 'Nationality?' - 'German' - 'Occupation?' - 'No, just visiting for a few days.'"
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11:54:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i always feel sorry for all the OCD people who have to click on every link :p
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12:30:01 <planetmaker> Bad_Brett, you really should attach your images to your tt-forums postings
12:30:14 <planetmaker> your previous postings are already also broken due to the images having disappeared
12:30:22 <planetmaker> it makes the thread look quite... sad
12:30:46 <Bad_Brett> now that you mention it... i messed up big time
12:31:21 <Bad_Brett> i moved things around on my server a while ago
12:31:47 <planetmaker> yes... but please still: attach images. Don't link, if possible
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12:44:46 <Bad_Brett> i fixed the broken links as well, since i couldn't edit those posts
13:01:11 <andythenorth> what is the sound of the whale?
13:01:28 <Belugas> wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
13:01:37 <Belugas> rrrrrrrrrroooooooooooooooor
13:01:50 <Belugas> iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiwhioooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
13:02:57 <Bad_Brett> that doesn't sound right
13:04:28 <Belugas> HOW DARE YOU DOUBT ME??????
13:06:56 <__ln__> Belugas: yeah, don't teach a whale to sing
13:09:31 <Belugas> note that i don't care ;) I've seen quite a few whales, so far. But I've only heard them once for real
13:09:41 <Bad_Brett> i'm think it sounds more like this:
13:09:50 <Bad_Brett> woooouuuuuuuuaaaaaaaahhhhh
13:10:54 <__ln__> Bad_Brett: please note that the whale song in Star Trek IV was actually sung by mr. Nimoy, so it can't be used as a biologically accurate source.
13:11:49 <Bad_Brett> i've watched almost every episode of Whale Wars... it's a fool-proof method if you're having trouble sleeping
13:13:10 <peter1138> bah, $var = `hostname` includes a newline...
13:13:12 <Bad_Brett> (though a more adequate description would be that i've watched the first 5 minutes of almost every episode)
13:13:16 <peter1138> and i'm being ignorant :(
13:14:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think i have ever seen that show
13:14:24 <Bad_Brett> that newline thing is so stupid i almost consider it a bug
13:14:33 <peter1138> Bad_Brett, yeah i know right
13:18:25 <Vinnie_nl> Hi all, here we go again
13:18:57 <Vinnie_nl> NoGo, finding a powerplant works yet i cannot seem to get the correct Tile ID
13:20:29 <Vinnie_nl> a location gives back for example 199704. Wich i read as X 199 Y 704. Is this correct?
13:21:03 <Xaroth|Work> what's the map size?
13:21:10 <planetmaker> your interpretation is incorrect, Vinnie_nl
13:21:14 <planetmaker> tiles are numbered
13:21:18 <Vinnie_nl> thats the fun part. map size is 512 x 512
13:21:24 <planetmaker> you have to modulo that by the map x-size
13:21:48 <Xaroth|Work> my guess would be, 390x24
13:21:51 <planetmaker> numbered sequentially. Tile 513 will be 1,2 in "your" coordinates
13:22:08 <Xaroth|Work> er, or the other way around
13:22:17 <planetmaker> I don't know which comes first :-)
13:22:35 <Vinnie_nl> so i divide it by 512 and then i got a remainder that will give me X or Y
13:22:44 <planetmaker> @calc 199704 / 512
13:22:44 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 390.046875
13:22:55 <Xaroth|Work> x,y = (index / <map_x>), (index % <map_x>)
13:22:58 <planetmaker> @calc 199704 - 390*512
13:23:29 <planetmaker> basically yes, Vinnie_nl
13:24:06 <Vinnie_nl> powerplant tile is in 25 x 390
13:24:21 <Xaroth|Work> might even be index+1
13:24:25 <Xaroth|Work> as coords start at 1,1
13:25:16 <Vinnie_nl> bloody hell, how do i write that into script
13:25:45 <Vinnie_nl> no NoGo is squirrel
13:25:59 <Xaroth|Work> tiletocoords = lambda i, s: (i % s), (i / s)
13:26:13 <Xaroth|Work> or in this case i+1 % s, i+1 / s
13:26:22 <Xaroth|Work> shouldn't be that hard in sq
13:26:59 <planetmaker> except if s = 0 or s=1
13:27:03 <Xaroth|Work> I did mention a few times to tb that he should make it use python
13:27:06 <planetmaker> or -1 or whatever ;-)
13:27:16 <Xaroth|Work> but sq was already there
13:27:18 <andythenorth> '64 bags of coffee' looks silly
13:27:22 <andythenorth> maybe I use sacks
13:27:23 <planetmaker> no, I didn't know
13:27:35 <planetmaker> squirrel bindings were available, python not? damn :-)
13:27:50 <Xaroth|Work> well, he didnt want to reinvent the wheel
13:27:58 <planetmaker> andythenorth, "64 cups of coffee"
13:27:59 <Xaroth|Work> or some lame excuse :P
13:29:23 <planetmaker> always the same old excuses
13:29:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i only know the point where it said "squirrel is used. there will be no debate about that"
13:29:49 <Xaroth|Work> mainly because i was debating it :P
13:30:20 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, aren't there predefined functions to get the X and Y coordinates out of a TileIndex?
13:30:35 <Eddi|zuHause> like TileX(ti) and TileY(ti)
13:30:38 <planetmaker> in hindsight I'd love to see python there. oh well
13:31:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't really care...
13:31:11 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, in openttd source. in GS API? dunno
13:31:23 <Xaroth|Work> the ones above that, vinnie
13:31:30 <Xaroth|Work> GetTileY and GetTileX
13:31:43 <planetmaker> yeah... GettileX, GetTileY
13:32:04 <planetmaker> awesome enought to be here on 27 July?
13:32:22 <Xaroth|Work> would love to, but it's too far of a drive for me
13:32:38 <Xaroth|Work> and I'm already going to spain 2 weeks later, so another weekend out is just, meh
13:32:51 <Xaroth|Work> Eddi|zuHause: main carpoolers go both days, which is too long for me
13:34:24 <Eddi|zuHause> "TILE_INVALID = (int)INVALID_TILE" uh. what? :p
13:56:41 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, enum != int. Thus to avoid compile warnings
13:57:03 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but that was not the part that i meant :p
13:57:26 <Eddi|zuHause> more the "A_B = B_A" part :p
14:27:09 <Vinnie_nl> I love the NoAi documentation, thanks it helps alot
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14:39:52 <Eddi|zuHause> BREAKING NEWS: Documentation helps a lot!
14:50:37 <andythenorth> this new economy is all plantations
14:51:24 <andythenorth> what shall I call a farm that produces Fruit and Grain?
14:52:55 <Jogio> and randomising goods they produce
15:01:28 <Jogio> Plantage, but I don't know if this an english word too
15:04:24 <planetmaker> andythenorth, it's also an arable farm :-)
15:09:10 <andythenorth> sounds like Farm is easiest
15:09:54 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: btw. CETS does some partial compile, but since it means the "headers" have to be processed multiple times, it doesn't really reduce compile time. only memory consumption
15:10:46 <andythenorth> if I could *guarantee* safety of varaction 2 IDs, it would be a plausible project
15:10:58 <andythenorth> nmlc could just compile all code for each industry
15:11:16 <andythenorth> dunno if that makes sense, it's more of a picture in my head than words
15:12:56 <Eddi|zuHause> well i include some "fake" varaction at the end that uses all varactions that should have the same ID throughout the whole GRF
15:13:39 <Eddi|zuHause> but the patch is somewhat hand crafted for CETS and scary to make more generic
15:14:53 <andythenorth> I can make FIRS compile quickly by turning off imports (each industry is a python module)
15:15:10 <andythenorth> but sometimes there are dependencies between industries, then I have to go comment out code
15:39:56 <Bad_Brett> that's me in a nutshell
15:40:33 <Bad_Brett> rather depressing to watch actually :P
15:45:02 <andythenorth> employment seems to be unevenly distributed
15:50:47 <Eddi|zuHause> employment is overrated :p
15:53:58 <Bad_Brett> well, i though that getting a master of science in engineering would be a good move, but 90% of the companies in Stockholm don't seem to give a damn if you're lacking experience and/or don't know anyone at the office... it's really frustrated, especially now when the stock market isn't all that lucrative
15:55:44 <andythenorth> and yet companies all over the world can't hire enough engineering graduates
15:56:20 <Rubidium> andythenorth: they want 20 yo graduates with 10 years of experience
15:56:55 <andythenorth> I look for people who've been coding since about 10 years old
15:57:08 <andythenorth> I started when I was about 7 or 8
15:57:30 <andythenorth> and ideally they've run a business themselves, or worked freelance etc
15:57:52 <Rubidium> damn... I won't meet those specs
15:58:12 <andythenorth> not everyone I hire meets them either :P
15:58:13 <Rubidium> mostly because of the latter clause
15:58:35 <andythenorth> doesn't apply if have worked in a job for n years
15:58:39 <andythenorth> but graduates haven't :P
15:59:42 * blathijs fits the profile perfectly so far :-)
16:00:49 <andythenorth> I should make the criteria tighter
16:00:55 <andythenorth> 'must have coded something for opentdd'
16:02:16 <Bad_Brett> of course, the companies always talk about the shortage of graduates, because it's rather beneficial for them to have a large group to choose from
16:02:51 <blathijs> andythenorth: Still in the game! :-)
16:04:05 <Bad_Brett> I wrote my first Pascal program when I was 7 years old... maybe i should put that on my resume then
16:04:18 <andythenorth> I'd say about 1 in 10 graduates who apply to us are employable
16:05:32 <andythenorth> terkhen was very employable :(
16:05:40 <andythenorth> that was bad for openttd :(
16:06:05 <andythenorth> you got a job ;)
16:06:10 <andythenorth> and then you had less time
16:06:19 <Terkhen> oh, yes, I get it now :P
16:06:44 <blathijs> Employing OpenTTD developers is great, if you pay them enough so they only need to work 2 or 3 days per week :-)
16:06:54 <Terkhen> I have less time and, since I'm tired, I don't want to code more stuff when I'm home :P
16:07:52 <Bad_Brett> but the thing is, if no one hire graduates, you will eventually run out of people with relevant experience :P
16:09:20 <Terkhen> that's not important because all profit calculations are made taking into account only the short term
16:09:44 <Bad_Brett> yeah i realise that
16:09:48 <Bad_Brett> tough luck for me then
16:09:52 <blathijs> Also, that affects your competitors just as much as yourself :-)
16:10:15 <Bad_Brett> at least i have plenty of time to work on my openttd project
16:10:50 <Bad_Brett> which doesn't really matter since i'm lacking the money to buy proper hardware :P
16:13:57 <blathijs> Proper hardware to run OpenTTD? Or is your project spiffy OpenGL rendering or something? :-)
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16:16:00 <andythenorth> write an Android app or something
16:16:12 <andythenorth> do an internship
16:16:19 <andythenorth> work for free for a few days somewhere
16:16:40 <Bad_Brett> rendering and nml compiler... andy knows what i'm talking about ;)
16:18:07 <Bad_Brett> the insane amount of time it takes to compile a big project with the nml compiler
16:19:04 <Bad_Brett> yeah, i'm actually thinking of writing an Android app or something like that... i have to try new things, i can't go on like this
16:19:54 <andythenorth> when starting our company, we made a game worth £25k for free for a charity
16:20:06 <andythenorth> in return for them promoting it widely and giving us credibility
16:20:35 <andythenorth> we also ran a free satirical website for 3 months
16:20:50 <andythenorth> and made lots of no-budget films to show we could do it
16:21:05 <andythenorth> and wrote lots of silly little games and tech demos
16:24:31 <Bad_Brett> sounds like a smart move
16:24:52 <andythenorth> otherwise people just ask 'what have you done?'
16:25:01 <andythenorth> and if the answer is 'nothing' you don't get work
16:25:06 <Bad_Brett> i might try something like that, i'm working on a few things with a couple of friends
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17:45:26 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25460 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2013-06-25 17:45:17 UTC)
17:45:27 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:28 <DorpsGek> czech - 4 changes by Eskymak
17:45:29 <DorpsGek> german - 3 changes by Jogio
17:45:30 <DorpsGek> luxembourgish - 2 changes by Phreeze
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18:52:18 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25461 trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp (2013-06-25 18:52:12 UTC)
18:52:19 <DorpsGek> -Fix: MSVC compiler warning
18:52:38 <Alberth> should there be something sup?
18:53:19 <Alberth> I was hacking somewhat in FreeRCT, until I found some email I should respond to :)
18:53:45 <Xaroth|Work> how playable is freerct? :o
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18:53:58 <Xaroth|Work> looking at it the other day made me mildly interested
18:54:35 <Terkhen> fully playable, as long as we are talking about playing with the code
18:54:49 <Rubidium> someone should give a demo about that project sometime ;)
18:54:57 <Rubidium> what about 27/28 july?
18:55:07 <Xaroth|Work> won't be there then :|
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19:20:13 <andythenorth> farm, farmstead, small-holding, hmm, not many options
19:22:20 <Alberth> anything wrong with farm?
19:22:33 <andythenorth> these farms, being strict to RL, are small subsistence plots in the forest
19:22:39 <andythenorth> but farm might do
19:25:43 <andythenorth> doesn't really generate much of a transport need :P
19:27:35 <Alberth> I was reading that :)
19:28:37 <andythenorth> I'll do an Asian economy sometime :P
19:28:48 <andythenorth> this farm should produce Maize not Grain
19:28:59 <andythenorth> but I don't know if that is a good idea
19:29:47 <andythenorth> MAIZ already exists as a cargo
19:30:56 <Alberth> diversity of cargoes seems like a good idea to me; otherwise I can just collect everything in one big network
19:31:17 <Alberth> I'll try that anyway, but no need to make it easy :p
19:33:17 <andythenorth> I'll enable MAIZ
19:33:21 <andythenorth> it exists in the game anyway :P
19:34:13 <Eddi|zuHause> maize is rather an american cargo?
19:34:37 <andythenorth> but staple food stuff in Africa apparently
19:35:38 <Eddi|zuHause> before the world was screwed up by european ships, wheat was used in europe and middle east, rice in far east, and maize in north and south america
19:36:16 <Eddi|zuHause> then things were shuffled around a bit, as the beginning of a "globalisation" of food
19:36:51 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. introduction of the potato to europe
20:04:35 <andythenorth> where should maize go
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20:04:42 <andythenorth> can't really go to the grain mill
20:05:38 <Eddi|zuHause> maize to a brewery... what blasphemy!!
20:07:06 <V453000> that is called beer by a mistake
20:08:37 <andythenorth> maybe I should make grain an import cargo
20:08:40 <andythenorth> that's reality :P
20:09:53 <andythenorth> nothing to see here
20:10:04 <andythenorth> you must be hallucinamating
20:20:21 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25462 /trunk/src (fontcache.cpp fontcache.h) (2013-06-25 20:20:15 UTC)
20:20:22 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: make a better distinction between characters and glyphs
20:21:27 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25463 /trunk/src (fontcache.cpp fontcache.h) (2013-06-25 20:21:21 UTC)
20:21:28 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: export more size related information from the fonts
20:22:14 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25464 /trunk/src (4 files in 4 dirs) (2013-06-25 20:22:08 UTC)
20:22:15 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Hide default size button in non-newstation rail-station picker since it is not resizeable anyway.
20:27:35 <andythenorth> I want to do an industry which is a group of smallholdings
20:27:41 <andythenorth> but that might be dumb
20:27:47 <andythenorth> and I don't know what to call it in any case
20:28:58 <andythenorth> 'smallholdings' ? :P
20:29:37 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25465 /trunk (7 files in 3 dirs) (2013-06-25 20:29:31 UTC)
20:29:38 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: add the concept of a layouting engine for text
20:38:17 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25466 /trunk/src (gfx.cpp gfx_layout.h) (2013-06-25 20:38:12 UTC)
20:38:18 <DorpsGek> -Add: drawing routine for the layout engine
20:38:34 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25467 trunk/src/gfx.cpp (2013-06-25 20:38:29 UTC)
20:38:35 <DorpsGek> -Add: truncation support to the drawing routine
20:39:09 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25468 trunk/src/widget.cpp (2013-06-25 20:39:03 UTC)
20:39:10 <DorpsGek> -Fix-ish: the min/max of the close box were so small the glyph wouldn't even fit between them
20:40:03 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25469 /trunk/src (fontcache.cpp fontcache.h) (2013-06-25 20:39:58 UTC)
20:40:04 <DorpsGek> -Add: method for getting the font tables from freetype fonts
20:41:04 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25470 /trunk (9 files in 3 dirs) (2013-06-25 20:40:58 UTC)
20:41:05 <DorpsGek> -Feature-ish: use ICU's layout engine when that's available
20:44:28 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25471 trunk/src/gfx.cpp (2013-06-25 20:44:23 UTC)
20:44:29 <DorpsGek> -Fix/Feature [FS#5481]: support for Brahmic scripts (e.g. Tamil and Thai)
20:45:00 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25472 trunk/src/gfx.cpp (2013-06-25 20:44:54 UTC)
20:45:01 <DorpsGek> -Cleanup: remove the old methods for drawing text
20:47:10 <Vinnie_nl> funny how the bot is called DorpsGek
20:47:45 <Vinnie_nl> its a dutch word meaning village idiot
20:48:18 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25473 trunk/src/gfx_layout.cpp (2013-06-25 20:48:12 UTC)
20:48:19 <DorpsGek> -Fix: uninitialised warning
20:48:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i do think that was an intentional choice :p
20:48:36 <frosch123> nah, pure coincidencs
20:49:01 <Rubidium> no, we chose 8 ASCII characters by random
20:50:36 <Eddi|zuHause> so, when are we getting an ingame font picker?
20:50:49 <andythenorth> I just want a browser
20:50:51 <__ln__> btw, i think i still remember planetmaker's wi-fi password.
20:50:55 <andythenorth> can't be worse than FF
20:50:59 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: just before you can send emails
20:51:56 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: a bit problematic with 256 colours :)
20:52:02 <andythenorth> I don't see the issue
20:52:06 <andythenorth> advanced dithering :P
20:52:52 <Eddi|zuHause> a bit less if you consider the magic pink and magic flashing colours
20:53:04 <andythenorth> you mean you're not flashing pink?
20:53:31 <andythenorth> that destroys a happy mental image I had
20:53:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i never said that
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21:29:13 <andythenorth> SUGR should be covered / sheltered
21:29:23 <andythenorth> if ever there existed a cargo that justified that silly class
21:29:35 <andythenorth> currently defined as bulk only
21:33:24 <Vinnie_nl> can i ask you something, the chat about famrs is it a new industry set or addition to firs?
21:34:55 <andythenorth> I instantly understood the purpose
21:35:02 <andythenorth> I'd have to actually try it to really understand the method
21:36:45 <andythenorth> and these can be setup on a per-vehicle basis?
21:37:07 <andythenorth> in that case it makes complete sense
21:37:08 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a table entry for that
21:38:56 <Eddi|zuHause> so for one or more cargo wagons you type "120kph_when_empty" in the "custom callbacks" column, then it will insert these lines for the vehicle
21:39:27 <andythenorth> looks like a classic over-ride
21:39:40 <andythenorth> jquery has a similar approach to over-riding cbs
21:40:44 <andythenorth> time for bed andythenorth
21:40:52 <Eddi|zuHause> bad andythenorth
21:41:21 <andythenorth> I will likely see 6am tomorrow
21:41:28 <andythenorth> and I saw midnight last night
21:41:53 <andythenorth> but...this FIRS economy is not finished yet!
21:43:06 <Eddi|zuHause> oh what a boring world this would be if things were ever finished :p
21:51:20 * __ln__ booked flights to/from Hannover
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continue to next day ⏵