IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-06-10
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05:05:49 <Supercheese> Aww, no function in the scenario editor to "flow river from this starting point"
05:06:01 <Supercheese> Have to place it manually? :S
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06:38:13 <Supercheese> Weird, all my HEQS trams have lower capacity
06:38:19 <Supercheese> I wonder what happened
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06:43:09 <planetmaker> Supercheese, cargo can have a capacity multiplier. goods usually has 2, while others have 1
06:43:54 <Supercheese> I think there's a bug somewhere in FIRS
06:44:06 <Supercheese> HEQS trams report their capacity, "20t in four wagons" etc
06:44:17 <Supercheese> but those capacities are incorrect in Tropic Basic economy
06:44:47 <Supercheese> That's the only variable I'm changing, the economy parameter
06:44:51 <Supercheese> and it's causing the capacity issues
06:44:55 <planetmaker> uhm... why do you think in FIRS?
06:45:28 <Supercheese> guess I can check the source
06:46:15 <planetmaker> if capacities don't match, I'd start looking in the vehicle set
06:46:28 <Supercheese> I think HEQS is NFO
06:46:30 <planetmaker> unless, you see the capacity issue with different vehicle sets
06:48:15 <Supercheese> good lord, so much python wizardry with FIRS
06:48:32 <planetmaker> still. Try with other train, ship, plane, rv sets. If it's the same: it's FIRS. If not: HEQS
06:48:34 <Supercheese> gotta grab the processed NML
06:50:07 <Supercheese> well, other vehicles seem fine
06:53:32 <Supercheese> HEQS bug, I guess
06:56:42 <Supercheese> I wonder what could be the problem
06:57:59 <planetmaker> primary cargo could be
06:58:34 <planetmaker> if the primary cargo has a different cargo multiplier, it might propagate to each refit. It needs then setting explicitly
06:58:45 <Supercheese> same problem for arctic basic
07:02:47 <Supercheese> maybe if the COAL cargo isn't defined?
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07:06:40 <planetmaker> for instance, yes. And if next is GOODs
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07:26:25 <Supercheese> Yeah, the fallback primary cargo becomes MAIL
07:55:41 <Supercheese> Huh, new menu icons
07:58:19 <Supercheese> the new icons messed up the tooltips
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09:36:34 <NGC3982> Time to explore the AI
09:36:56 <NGC3982> After ten years of playing.
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11:25:14 <planetmaker> so... anyone playing with nightly might want to update his or her OpenGFX via online content
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13:52:19 <Leftie> Hi. I'm wondering if anyone can help, i'm having trouble getting OpenTTD to compile :(
13:56:54 <__ln__> is this ubuntu or debian?
13:57:22 <Leftie> its debian, debian 6 i believe.
13:57:46 <__ln__> did you install build-essential?
13:57:58 <Leftie> eeer, let me read the wiki again.
13:58:18 <Leftie> yes, i did what the wiki said (sudo apt-get install build-essential pkg-config libsdl1.2-dev subversion patch zlib1g-dev liblzo2-dev liblzma-dev libfontconfig-dev libicu-dev)
13:58:58 <Leftie> oh, is the wiki not up-to-date?
13:59:10 <planetmaker> it should also be up to date
13:59:17 <planetmaker> but would take me longer to find ;-)
13:59:42 <planetmaker> in case of doubt the wiki is actually more up to date really
13:59:58 <Leftie> oh, if it matters i'm also using --enable-dedicated
14:00:07 <Leftie> just trying to setup a little server for me and few friends to play on.
14:00:42 <planetmaker> can you paste config.log and the result of ./configure ?
14:01:11 <Leftie> Yup, hold on whilst i get them.
14:01:36 <planetmaker> and you compile from the svn checkout, yes?
14:03:02 <Leftie> argh, no download-stable - clicked the wrong thing on openttd.org page.
14:03:23 <planetmaker> uh... better get a subversion checkout if you want to create a server
14:03:35 <planetmaker> you have svn installed anyway, as you said
14:03:59 <Leftie> tar -xzf + compile, surely that is the same that is used for all 1.3.1?
14:04:14 <planetmaker> well... *should* work... but it's not a good idea
14:04:59 <planetmaker> might give unexpected results with the displayed version, though
14:06:17 <Leftie> no wait, it wasn't the make output you wanted >.< hold on
14:13:07 <planetmaker> still, looks like you're missing an essential package... linux-libc-dev
14:13:11 <planetmaker> is that installed?
14:14:17 <Leftie> apt-get outputs linux-libc-dev is already the newest version, so 'fraid so
14:15:45 <__ln__> is your root partition full?
14:16:50 <Leftie> No, approx 7.41GB free, of a 10GB partition (VPS)
14:18:36 <__ln__> try reinstalling linux-libc-dev
14:21:34 <Leftie> ah, this may take a while, apt-get removing linux-libc-dev seems to have removed build-essential and most other compiling things, will have to redo all them.
14:21:46 <Leftie> or perhaps that was the point ;)
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14:24:45 <planetmaker> well... re-installing that package was the point. As the files compilation complains about not finding are part of that particular package
14:25:28 <Leftie> well its reinstalled linux-libc-dev and build-essential + all the other things that was now missing from the wiki page list
14:25:45 <Leftie> It's compiling OpenTTD again, but so far its got long past where it faultered before, so i think it may have done the trick :)
14:27:19 <planetmaker> the "while" was then relatively short :D
14:27:57 <Leftie> Yeah, I always surprise myself with how fast this goes, to say its only 1X 3GHz, i always expect this little VPS to take yonks.
14:30:37 <Leftie> aha, compiled and installed, just need to give it a graphic set, wasn't expect it to request one running in -D mode
14:31:55 <Eddi|zuHause> it contains some essential stuff like (original) terrain generator patterns
14:32:53 <Leftie> Is there any issue with copying the stuff from my local Windows installation, or are .grfs different between operating systems?
14:33:16 <planetmaker> Leftie: you should check that it reports the version you wanted as you didn't compile from svn
14:33:24 <Eddi|zuHause> except maybe case sensitivity
14:33:45 <Leftie> hm, the folder it created was 1.3.1, but i'll double check planetmaker
14:34:09 <planetmaker> ./openttd --version
14:34:54 <planetmaker> ./openttd --version | head -n1
14:35:03 <planetmaker> to skip all the other reporting
14:36:06 <Leftie> output: OpenTTD 1.3.1 - i assume thats all good to go?
14:36:30 <Eddi|zuHause> that should be correct
14:36:54 <Eddi|zuHause> if it said something like "norev000" you couldn't use this as a server
14:37:53 <planetmaker> Leftie: generally using svn is both safer. And easier to update
14:38:26 <Eddi|zuHause> and it will correctly detect modifications
14:38:28 <Leftie> right, and thats just getting the current branch from svn://svn.openttd.org?
14:38:49 <Eddi|zuHause> you want to check out /tags/1.3.1
14:38:56 <Leftie> I've never used svn on linux before, only through Windows via Tortoise SVN >.<
14:40:07 <Eddi|zuHause> use "svn switch" to update later
14:40:07 <planetmaker> you can use tortoiseSVN on linux, too
14:40:31 <planetmaker> svn co svn://svn.openttd.org/tags/1.3.1
14:41:24 <planetmaker> tortoise[svn|hg|git] is available for windows, linux and osx
14:42:54 <planetmaker> also, for ease of use: skip installing openttd on the server. Just grab the checkout, compile. And run. That suffices :-)
14:43:40 <Leftie> thanks for the help you guys have been great, got it all hooked up and i've connected to it so its all working great.
15:25:05 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, "install" is of not much use unless you remove the source/build tree afterwards
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17:18:04 <DorpsGek> Commit by zuu :: r25388 trunk/src/lang/english.txt (2013-06-10 17:17:59 UTC)
17:18:05 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5593] (r25376): Forgot to add tooltips for the new main menu buttons
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17:45:51 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25389 /trunk/src/lang (7 files) (2013-06-10 17:45:38 UTC)
17:45:52 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:53 <DorpsGek> english_US - 2 changes by Rubidium
17:45:54 <DorpsGek> finnish - 2 changes by jpx_
17:45:55 <DorpsGek> french - 4 changes by glx
17:45:56 <DorpsGek> german - 5 changes by Jogio, planetmaker
17:45:57 <DorpsGek> italian - 59 changes by lorenzodv
17:45:58 <DorpsGek> polish - 1 changes by wojteks86
17:45:59 <DorpsGek> spanish - 2 changes by Terkhen
17:47:34 <Wolf01> www.darkroastedblend.com/2013/06/london-necropolis-railway.html nice, new cargo type for TT: corpses
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17:55:45 <planetmaker> a bit... disgusting, Wolf01 :-)
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18:19:29 <Alberth> yay, new opengfx, thanks
18:20:23 <planetmaker> :-) yeah... only the new gui sprites, though
18:21:02 <planetmaker> that needs not too much work... only some palette conversions... and ignoring NML warnings about gui sprites :-P
18:32:26 <Zuu> Its quiet today. Perhaps everyone plays with cargo distribution :-)
18:35:16 <Alberth> Zuu: you were too busy with story books, but it has been quiet the entire weekend as well :)
18:39:23 * planetmaker checks whether OpenGFX+ Landscape still misses stuff
18:39:53 <Rubidium> planetmaker: it definitely does
18:40:53 <Alberth> it also seems to be missing things
18:43:00 <Rubidium> planetmaker: so far I have not seen a NewGRF that provides the cargo "stuff", even though I've often mentioned it ;)
18:44:33 <planetmaker> probably that should be added as easter egg into opengfx+industries ;-)
18:51:17 <Alberth> lol, "not OTTD compatible" :)
18:51:45 <frosch123> did ottd even exist? :p
18:52:36 <planetmaker> 2007? I guess :-)
18:54:21 <planetmaker> Hm... that's about the time I started to play on #openttdcoop, thus when I came back to this game to stay
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19:39:31 <Samu> I think I found a bug with replace vehicles when old
19:39:42 <Samu> and wagon removal on or off
19:39:51 <Samu> not entirely certain though
19:42:17 <Samu> i told the game to replace SH '8P' when old to a TIM with wagon removal on, but also to replace SH '125P' when old to a TIM with wagon removal off
19:42:34 <Samu> I had found some trains with an extra wagon later on
19:50:08 <Samu> ok, got a old train again, 1 machine, 3 wagons - should be replacing to tim with wagon removed
19:54:32 <Samu> added tim, maintained 3 wagons :(
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20:08:22 <planetmaker> ZxBiohazardZx, you can now update your OpenGFX ingame ;-)
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20:08:45 <Samu> flyspray requires flash?
20:08:52 <Samu> I uninstalled adobe flash
20:09:53 <Samu> ah, it doesn't - it's just the advert
20:11:04 <planetmaker> yes... the advert pays the server
20:12:50 <Samu> it's those square icons, one at the top right, near Show Task #, the other at the bottom, near Flyspray 0.9.9.6 text
20:13:28 <planetmaker> Pages contain our sponsor's logo. In the way he wants it included
20:25:44 <Samu> sorry, there was no more SH '8P's, but it's also happening to SH '30'
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20:40:13 <Samu> how do I tell IE10 to stop telling me "this website wants to install adobe flash player from adobe systems"?
20:41:22 <MNIM> not using IE would be a start
20:42:59 <NGC3982> Does the average AI from the Online Content support using FIRS/ECS?
20:44:11 <Zuu> The average AI will probably not figure out the importance of suppliers, but it should use the cargos available.
20:44:59 <Zuu> Its more a matter of it being able to understand some of the (over) complex vehicle NewGRFs.
20:45:08 <glx> ECS is already too complex for a human
20:45:28 <NGC3982> I guess i wont use ECS anyway
20:45:40 <NGC3982> But atleast FIRS and NARS/UKRS2.
20:46:07 <Zuu> My bet is that UKRS2 works better than NARS.
20:46:27 <Zuu> NARS have a cabose if I'm not mistaken.
20:46:39 <NGC3982> UKRS2 has a brake van..
20:47:03 <Zuu> Though if you use a road-AIs that will not make a difference which rail NewGRF you use.
20:47:41 <Zuu> I'v not played much with UKRS2. Mostly UKRS
20:48:41 <Zuu> That said the average AI on bananas may not support rails at all. Only a subset of all AIs support rail.
20:49:37 <planetmaker> good rail support comes at a premium. As a figure of speach
20:49:44 <planetmaker> Not many do a good job there
20:59:46 <NGC3982> The AIAI AI worked FIRS out like a charm.
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21:06:13 <Samu> got it - no more IE10 pestering me about Adobe Flash
21:12:08 <Zuu> NGC3982: The AI work with a list of industry types. It sees which input/output cargos it has. So they more or less work with industries as nodes and has the knowledge which industry outputs cargo compatible with what other industry. They do then not really care if that is a default cargo or a NewGRF cargo.
21:12:53 <Zuu> The things that cause an AI problem is if an industry stops to accept cargo "temporarily" it has no clue why that happened. Some AIs have a mechanism to back off for some time and then if that not helps close down the connection.
21:14:24 <Zuu> Basically all information that NewGRFs provide as text strings at the bottom of the purchase menu or industry window or in a manual is not available to the AI.
21:15:55 <Zuu> Gah, they removed the scroll bar. Though it works with arrow keys.
21:16:05 * Zuu hates sites/programs that remove the scroll bar
21:16:39 <Samu> Im autoreplacing everything 1-engine and 2-engine alike to the new 2-engine "right now", not the "when old" - I'm messing up all my trains with an extra wagon - the game doesn't memorize when I told to replace, it just replaces using the latest remove wagon choice
21:19:45 <Samu> it's not an extra wagon, it's the game not removing the wagon, sorry
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21:30:37 <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r25390 trunk/src/saveload/afterload.cpp (2013-06-10 21:30:31 UTC)
21:30:38 <DorpsGek> -Fix: add missing compatibility settings in afterload.
21:53:16 <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r25391 trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp (2013-06-10 21:53:11 UTC)
21:53:17 <DorpsGek> -Fix: make ChangeShare really aware of INT_MIN
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