IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-06-11
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04:31:04 <Samu> I'm off to bed - 4th day in a row without midi problems
05:04:55 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25392 trunk/bin/ai/regression/regression.txt (2013-06-11 05:04:49 UTC)
05:04:56 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r25390): update regression to account for the compatability settings
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06:13:23 <Supercheese> Guess there's no chance of a YACD-esque option if cargodist has now hit trunk
06:14:17 <planetmaker> that guess is supposedly wrong. But it is more difficult
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06:31:54 <peter1138> Supercheese, realistically, nobody was working on YACD anyway
06:32:09 <Supercheese> Yeah, that's true
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06:34:08 <peter1138> And also, we now have more active developers \o/
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07:26:30 <Supercheese> Go to fishing grounds (autorefit to fish), go to fishing harbor (autorefit to food), go to city docks (autorefit to passengers)
07:27:07 <Supercheese> it's funniest to do with the paddle steamer ocean liners
07:29:35 <Supercheese> I always imagine the staterooms being hastily converted to bulk fish storage and back again
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08:05:43 <planetmaker> fish simply is stacked in fish boxes... :-)
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11:59:57 <peter1138> hmm, i can't get awk regexp NOT matching to work :S
12:00:30 <peter1138> and as i say that, i figure it out lol
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12:20:44 <TrueBrain> you should say those things moe often :D
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15:43:56 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: but only if they know for certain (51% confidence) that you foreign, they may look at it
15:44:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: but they have no effective measure to control that restrictions with out-of-house contract workers
15:45:26 <Rubidium> but I reckon google et all have more than 645 million users
15:45:59 <Rubidium> so, getting a user by random means it's more likely to be a foreigner than American
15:46:22 <Rubidium> thus getting to the 51% confidence level
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16:17:43 <V453000> hm did I get kicked or did I accidentally close the channel window at some point? :D
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17:46:09 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25393 /trunk/src/lang (9 files) (2013-06-11 17:45:54 UTC)
17:46:10 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:46:11 <DorpsGek> dutch - 32 changes by habell
17:46:12 <DorpsGek> english_AU - 37 changes by mrtux
17:46:13 <DorpsGek> english_US - 2 changes by Rubidium
17:46:14 <DorpsGek> german - 2 changes by Jogio
17:46:15 <DorpsGek> italian - 6 changes by lorenzodv
17:46:16 <DorpsGek> korean - 1 changes by junho2813
17:46:17 <DorpsGek> russian - 6 changes by Lone_Wolf
17:46:18 <DorpsGek> gaelic - 28 changes by GunChleoc
17:46:19 <DorpsGek> swedish - 3 changes by Zuu
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18:12:14 <frosch123> yay, fs#5596 is awesome :)
18:22:48 <planetmaker> I don't quite get it?
18:23:50 <Rubidium> sounds like: mouse in window -> no tile selected -> no cargoes -> reduce window size -> mouse outside of window -> tile selected -> cargoes -> increase window size -> backup to step #1
18:24:07 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25394 /trunk/src (build_vehicle_gui.cpp command.cpp) (2013-06-11 18:24:01 UTC)
18:24:08 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Restrict renaming engines to the server, just like renaming towns.
18:24:30 <planetmaker> you'll make one person very unhappy, frosch123 ;-)
18:24:30 <Rubidium> easy-ish solution would be not reducing the window size
18:25:11 <frosch123> planetmaker: i love the temporal closeness of those two forum threads :)
18:26:53 <ntoskrnl> frosch123: oszilating -> oscillating
18:27:38 <ntoskrnl> also, "making window biggers", and also unclosed parenthesis
18:36:32 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25395 /trunk/src (4 files) (2013-06-11 18:36:26 UTC)
18:36:33 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5596]: The size of station construction windows could oscillate when resizing the window moved the mouse into the window.
18:36:51 <frosch123> i had a hard time to not make the same typo again
18:36:58 <frosch123> i hope i made at least a different one :)
18:44:06 <zooks> that was a quick fix for fs#5596! I submitted that only an hour ago :)
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18:44:51 <frosch123> it was a fun bug :)
18:45:04 <zooks> hard to describe though
18:45:38 <planetmaker> though I was like "what?!" when I read it, the description was quite good
18:47:03 <zooks> Im still crashing constantly on fs#5567, I see there's a fix posted there as well. I'll try that..
18:48:04 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge
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19:00:19 <Eddi|zuHause> so, when will r25394 cause a thread like "i used to be able to rename vehicles, enable that again"
19:02:28 <V453000> wtf you cant rename vehicles anymore? :d
19:02:54 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you can, if you are the server :p
19:02:57 <ZxBiohazardZx> is it possible to sort industries by type AND production?
19:03:09 <ZxBiohazardZx> (i see option for type and for production, but no AND :P)
19:03:43 <V453000> you give too much shit about production
19:04:03 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: you can still rename vehicles :p
19:08:57 <peter1138> i always wondered about fixing that...
19:09:24 <frosch123> did you wonder about pondering, or ponder about wondering?
19:13:46 <frosch123> where is the right place to suggest the german government to follow greece's great example and disband public broadcasting?
19:15:57 <planetmaker> ah... epetitionen.bundestag.de of course :-)
19:17:48 <V453000> cargodist game on publicserver ... if anyone was interested
19:18:05 <Eddi|zuHause> that's probably the wrong place, because public broadcasting is "Ländersache"
19:20:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i would have assumed cargodist is "bad" :p
19:20:37 <planetmaker> no, you wouldn't :-P
19:21:16 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: maybe he takes a unicorn to ride to the prozone
19:21:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean, if i like something, V453000 must automatically hate it :p
19:22:20 <Rubidium> so no V453000 at the party?
19:23:01 <V453000> I will be at the next party :) I will let them figure out what is going on for now, plus I have my own playground now
19:23:26 <planetmaker> V453000, we plan to have it somewhen in July or August weekends. Same place as before
19:23:46 <planetmaker> I meant to post... but I need to figure out which of the August weekends I have time
19:24:03 <planetmaker> that party, yes :-P
19:25:03 <V453000> what is that, r25383 party? :D
19:25:15 <planetmaker> something like that ;-)
19:27:22 <planetmaker> in order to create some you definitely have to be in harmony with your feminine side
19:28:40 <Rubidium> V453000: no, it's all about 4k
19:28:57 <V453000> I wonder what that means
19:29:16 <Rubidium> it's, ofcourse, the number of strings
19:31:15 <planetmaker> hehe... currently is a good test how often translators check :-)
19:31:22 <planetmaker> not many 100% languages
19:32:10 <planetmaker> even __ln__ is slacking
19:32:58 <planetmaker> and Terkhen could also translate the missing two :-)
19:33:19 <planetmaker> and Swedish misses 21...
19:34:02 <fonsinchen> yeah, unicorn cake. I'll bring one.
19:34:29 <planetmaker> not difficult to make a more impressive cake than I fabricated last time
19:34:52 <Eddi|zuHause> fonsinchen: poor alonso!
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19:35:35 <planetmaker> luckily not a unicorn as the picture shows
19:35:57 <fonsinchen> I'll steal one from nethack.
19:36:28 <fonsinchen> Everyone will get teleportitis then.
19:37:04 <Terkhen> planetmaker: thanks for the reminder :)
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19:44:10 <V453000> cargodistQ: if you dont provide any other path than A->drop, industry A will never want other drop?
19:45:07 <Rubidium> V453000: true, *if* you use a no-load order at the drop
19:45:47 <V453000> so in a cargo game why would I use cargodist even when it is on? :d
19:45:48 <Rubidium> otherwise stuff might go somewhere else, but only if there is a route from drop to another drop
19:46:05 <fonsinchen> How would a loading order make it select an unreachable destination?
19:46:11 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: it makes feeder services and load balancing easier
19:46:49 <V453000> but even feeder->A->drop wont X want drop Y ?
19:46:55 <__ln__> whatwhat, i'm not involved with ottd translations since about 2007.
19:47:18 <frosch123> __ln__: see, that's what we complained about
19:47:19 <fonsinchen> Where is X and where is Y?
19:47:32 <V453000> doesnt matter, somewhere on the network
19:47:37 <V453000> trains only go to X with unload and leave empty now
19:47:42 <Rubidium> V453000: no, cargo is distributed to the reachable stations instead of cargodest where cargo is given a destination
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19:48:29 <V453000> so it basically only applies when I drop cargo at multiple places from multiple places
19:48:39 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe that can be implemented on top of cargodist?
19:50:10 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: if you have routes A->X, A->Y and B->Y, and you forget the "no load" orders, it may route stuff B->Y->A->X
19:50:25 <V453000> but why would I do that :d
19:50:42 <V453000> that is really an error
19:50:45 <fonsinchen> To use your trains on the return trip.
19:50:53 <Eddi|zuHause> industries which have a stockpile limit?
19:50:55 <V453000> as cargo would just get transported there and back when the route could be direct
19:50:56 <fonsinchen> Instead of letting them go empty.
19:51:38 <V453000> stockpile limits are wtf
19:51:44 <V453000> but ok that is an option
19:55:15 <fonsinchen> If you don't want cargo to be distributed automatically you can always switch cargodist off for the respective cargo.
19:56:00 <Eddi|zuHause> in FIRS, you may need to serve one source to multiple destinations, because of the output multiplication effects
19:56:13 <V453000> well obviously, I just want to discover by what reasoning should it be used in a normal game
19:56:30 <V453000> mhm yeah it makes FIRS stupidly easy :s
19:56:36 <fonsinchen> If you do want it to be distributed automatically then you have to tolerate things like that. How should it know if you intentionally created that route, e.g. to reuse your trains on the return trip or if it was a mistake?
19:56:49 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it does not, you still have to care about delivery timing :)
19:57:14 <frosch123> do newer svn also produce -p1 patches?
19:57:18 <fonsinchen> A prime example for cargodist is a passenger network.
19:57:25 <V453000> timing is rather easy :P
19:57:39 <fonsinchen> In a lot of cargo games it probably doesn't make much sense.
19:57:57 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, passengers/mail was always the primary inspiration
19:58:24 <V453000> fonsinchen: I mean, I have coal mine 1,2,3 going to power plant A. I also have coal mines 4,5,6 going to power plant B. Directly, without anything else, with unload and leave empty orders. Why should I add 1,2 or 3 going to B
19:59:14 <fonsinchen> Coal is probably not so well suited for automatic distribution then.
19:59:27 <V453000> same for any other cargo
19:59:37 <V453000> except passengers or mail as you noted
19:59:44 <fonsinchen> However, depending on the geography A could be a good "in between" stop on the way to B.
20:00:06 <fonsinchen> Then you could run a train from A to B to make more money from the same coal by transporting it further.
20:00:09 <V453000> no, my trains only go directly and with non-stop
20:00:24 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: food/water
20:00:26 <V453000> lets consider that irrelevant
20:00:46 <fonsinchen> My example is not irrelevant. I've done that a lot.
20:01:06 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: generally, if the amount of destinations is significantly larger than the amount of sources
20:01:07 <V453000> well that is the same principle as other cargoes Eddi
20:01:17 <fonsinchen> Just look at the map and figure out multi-hop routes instead of just direct ones.
20:01:50 <V453000> well in other words why would I even get power plant B
20:01:54 <fonsinchen> But I agree, with passengers the advantages are easier to see.
20:01:54 <V453000> why not just keep all going to A
20:01:58 <V453000> same for town A eating all food
20:02:08 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: or having a main line with "mixed" (autorefit) trains, and lots of feeder services
20:02:22 <V453000> autorefit doesnt exist
20:02:32 <fonsinchen> Well, isn't the game about aesthetics, after all.
20:02:36 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: you want many towns to grow, so all of them require food
20:02:49 <fonsinchen> It's just much nicer to have it deliver half the coal to A and then take the rest to B.
20:02:59 <fonsinchen> (in my opinion, that is)
20:03:16 <V453000> sure fonsinchen, but then you can easily subsitute coal B for all wod
20:03:52 <V453000> and you can do coal to both A and B without cargodist easier/more conveniently too
20:04:07 <V453000> true, without transfers only
20:04:28 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: also, two-way transfers like a bank in the town
20:04:54 <V453000> yes, well, like any other drop/pickup cargo as pass/mail/valu
20:05:32 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: there certainly are playing styles where cargodist has no significant use/effect
20:06:25 <V453000> for passenger games it is interesting, I said and say that I dislike to be told where what goes, but it does have significant additions there
20:06:33 <V453000> for cargo I completely miss any effect
20:07:08 <Eddi|zuHause> sure, when you ignore everything i said, then it has no effect at all
20:07:27 <V453000> I didnt ignore it, it just has no advantage why to do that
20:07:55 <Eddi|zuHause> just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist
20:08:17 <V453000> autorefit really isnt relevant, that only makes all cargoes be one
20:10:00 <V453000> two-way transfering makes some sense though
20:10:30 <V453000> but requires substituting train junctions for stations
20:12:47 <V453000> symmetric will keep the same distribution over time, right?
20:21:44 <fonsinchen> Symmetric is about sending the same amount of cargo both ways. It makes no sense for cargo.
20:22:06 <fonsinchen> Only passengers, mail and in some cases valuables should be distributed symmetrically
20:23:58 <V453000> hm what am I missing, why doesnt it make sense for cargo?
20:24:17 <Samu> i just saw an helicopter and an aircraft going through each other on a commuter
20:24:20 <V453000> ... do I understand it wrongly that every power plant would get equal amount of coal?
21:09:03 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a blank page
21:10:46 <Samu> gah... imgur.com puts a c:\fakepath
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21:46:55 <glx> the string seems totally broken
21:47:36 <glx> acceptance change instead company or manager name
21:55:58 <Samu> no, that's my company name
21:59:44 <Samu> FX at 5 GHz... k, meanwhile Intel might announce the first 8-core cpu of theirs for lga 2011, hmmm :(
22:00:16 <glx> nice they broke the naming
22:00:31 <glx> FX-9xxx for an 8 cores cpu
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22:08:56 <Samu> more tech stuff i like - Radeon HD 8000 or 9000 - one of them will integrate x86 cores on them, that was nVidias plan with Maxwell
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22:35:00 <Samu> can I use Timetable to inform me about the time it took to complete a journey but not impose delays?
22:36:41 <Samu> autofill but do not put 'wait for x days', 'travel for x days' on the orders?
22:42:57 <Eddi|zuHause> IMHO it should do that automatically...
22:55:14 <Samu> i am trying to get the best distance between 2 airports with infrastructure costs turned on
22:55:28 <Samu> best distance = best profit
22:55:40 <Eddi|zuHause> good luck with that
22:56:11 <Eddi|zuHause> of course it depends on the plane
22:57:54 <Eddi|zuHause> and how much time they spend in the waiting loop
22:58:55 <Samu> max profit a year versus max income each go
22:59:31 <Eddi|zuHause> and i suspect it's the same as without infrastructure costs, just there's a minimum distance where it gets unprofitable
23:00:20 <Eddi|zuHause> profit per year, obviously
23:03:01 <Samu> a station in 1 corner of the map, and the other one at the opposite corner
23:03:39 <Samu> they don't profit for more than a year, but when they do, they win major!!
23:04:58 <Samu> then they just make copies of the same
23:10:35 <Samu> is there a cargo calculator somewhere? an excel file? a web site?
23:26:41 <Samu> i'm even more confused, why did i look at this :p
23:28:02 <Eddi|zuHause> use the canonical documentation
23:37:26 <Samu> im building an excel chart
23:38:12 <Samu> i just want to input coordinates for 2 stations, select cargo type and it gives me results
23:39:49 <Samu> i can then sort by average profit a year
23:39:55 <Eddi|zuHause> "canonical documentation" is jargon for "source code"
23:40:31 <Samu> it should tell me what's the best 'time in transit'
23:40:59 <Eddi|zuHause> it should tell you the formulas used for calculating the income
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