IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-06-08
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00:25:39 <Samu> hey, another random question, is there a reason why airport infrastructure maintenance are so expensive?
00:26:07 <Samu> i asked yesterday but no one answered or i missed it
00:27:41 <Samu> it was insane, about £16,000,000 for only 2 commuters a year
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09:44:27 <planetmaker> looking good, Zuu
09:46:56 <Zuu> Currently I have edited my story gui patch, but I think that I will push the menu button to a later patch that adds both the menu button for goals and the story book. The amount of changes to toolbar_gui.cpp in order to introduce a menu button is quite many. So doing both buttons in one stand alone patch seems best.
09:59:17 <Zuu> In adition to adding a button, it also will allow opening company specific story and goal windows. So indeed it should be a patch of its own.
10:00:48 <Alberth> more small patches is usually better :)
10:01:20 <planetmaker> adding buttons and functions could be two
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10:47:46 <Zuu> Hmm, WID_GL_ is used both by the vehicle group window and the goal window. Trying to add WID_GL_CAPTION to the goal window gave me a conflict. Perhaps a -Fix should rename the goal widget constants to something else.
10:48:26 <Zuu> WID_GO is taken. So WID_GA (GoAl)? or WID_CG (Company Goal)?
10:49:01 <Zuu> or maybe WID_GOL is better
10:52:02 <planetmaker> yes, each window should have unique names... you could simply take WID_GOAL
10:52:11 <planetmaker> that one additional latter does not hurt imho
10:52:29 <Zuu> Hmm, oh its GL for Goal List right now.
10:53:02 <Zuu> But it could then be GOal List :-)
10:55:04 <Rubidium> why not just WID_GOAL_XYZ?
11:09:25 <Zuu> Or should it be placed to the right of the league (cup) button?
11:14:16 <planetmaker> isn't in the presence of the story book the company league table obsolete?
11:16:52 <Zuu> The company league is a ranking of companies. Neither the goal window or the story book provides that.
11:18:06 <Zuu> The menu items for the goal and story window will dissapear from the company league menu as I add the new main menu buttons.
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11:21:34 <planetmaker> will the main menu item be always visible - or only in the presence of a goal script?
11:22:20 <Zuu> I think the final target is that the two new buttons should only be visible if a GS is present.
11:22:30 <Zuu> Without a GS they will not display any useful information.
11:26:19 <planetmaker> Yes... I wondered whether it would advertise goal scripts, if it was left, showing a window like "This would show your goals and how much of them you achieved, were you using a goal script"
11:28:01 <MNIM> hmmmmh, would it be possible to implement something where you can 'enter an agreement' with a competitor so you could use their rail/road? (against a price)
11:29:09 <Zuu> Understanding src/toolbar_gui.cpp is not exactly very easy. I currently focus on actually extending it to add two buttons. Later I will see if I can get it to optionally display those two. However, you need to dig into some rather magic arrays used to re-arege the buttons when the screen is narrow. etc :-)
11:30:44 <Zuu> It do not just cut the bar in half. It will actually re-arange the butons too. And there is not just one toolbar cut in half but also versions where some buttons are omitted.
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11:33:28 <Zuu> And to add to the complexity, those arrays don't use any enums - just numeric button numbers. :-)
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11:50:52 <Alberth> MNIM: in a source code patch, sure, like IS
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12:14:20 <Alberth> seems to be missing a few translations :)
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12:22:23 <planetmaker> Zuu, the toolbar is different for the SE. There the goal button isn't needed either
12:22:36 <planetmaker> but that's done in the same window
12:26:23 <frosch123> the se does not have a league button either :)
12:27:10 <Alberth> "make your scenario in less than 100 moves" :p
12:31:08 <planetmaker> he, that'd be fun, Alberth :-) Though our random maps are pretty good - if decent settings are chosen
12:32:01 <Alberth> I find it pretty difficult; so many things to think about and do right
12:32:15 <planetmaker> that's the advantage of good defaults
12:32:31 <Alberth> it would be useful if you could make a file with all settings, newgrfs, etc etc
12:33:05 <Alberth> yeah, but I want a dozen of those probably :)
12:33:24 <Alberth> ie nuts + firs in arctic, etc
12:33:54 <planetmaker> someone recently suggested to have in the settings window when used ingame a button like "make my default". So that the ingame setting is written to the user's non-ingame settings
12:34:17 <planetmaker> well. choice of settings. and choice of newgrfs. those can be mostly considered independently
12:34:47 <planetmaker> for newgrfs we have the presets. They miss an "update" button to use them in their newest version
12:34:55 <Alberth> I forget silly things like no proper RVs, or no ships in a watery game
12:37:42 <DorpsGek> Commit by zuu :: r25331 /trunk/src (5 files in 5 dirs) (2013-06-08 12:37:36 UTC)
12:37:43 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r25263): Update ScriptWindow with link graph widgets
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12:41:24 <Alberth> yeah, let's add that to trunk! :D
12:41:53 <planetmaker> much more difficult unfortunately :D
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13:02:34 <DorpsGek> Commit by zuu :: r25332 trunk/src/game/game_instance.cpp (2013-06-08 13:02:28 UTC)
13:02:35 <DorpsGek> -Fix (25331): Committed too much
13:03:19 <Alberth> revision numbers start with 'r' :)
13:03:32 <Zuu> Yeah, I realized that a moment after committing :-)
13:04:01 <Alberth> next time, think faster :p
13:04:47 <Alberth> I noticed andy has nice animated water edges with opengfx but not with ttd windows
13:05:41 <planetmaker> how can he have that?
13:05:48 <planetmaker> what water edges do you mean?
13:07:45 <Alberth> the white pixels at the bottom of the dock in chips_dos are animated
13:08:24 <Alberth> or is that just normal water animation???
13:09:38 <planetmaker> Alberth, if you use the sprite alignment tool you see that the pink pixels are part of a CHIPS sprite
13:09:39 <Alberth> nope, opengfx water animations are blue rather than white
13:10:16 <Alberth> I know, but the weird thing is that the ttd windows base set has no pink
13:12:24 <planetmaker> yes... though interestingly it has the pink pixels also then in the sprite alignment window. But not on the map
13:21:59 <planetmaker> strange it is anyway
13:22:11 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25333 trunk/src/date.cpp (2013-06-08 13:22:06 UTC)
13:22:12 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Potential signedness issue.
13:25:07 <planetmaker> Alberth, the problem is CHIPS: it claims to be a windows paletted NewGRF. But the sprites for the docks are provided in the DOS palette
13:26:07 <planetmaker> andy should convert all sprites there to DOS and change palette info
13:27:38 <Alberth> the chip_dos + opengfx also points in that direction, but it's good to have that confirmed
13:28:01 <planetmaker> looking at several pngs in the CHIPS repo: that issue affects way more sprites
13:29:17 <planetmaker> I'll raise an issue about that
13:29:35 <Alberth> ok, thanks for investigating, and reporting it
13:39:57 * Alberth wonders to put the company league cup under the 'companies stats' button
13:40:51 <Zuu> You mean, moving the remaining cup menu entries to the company stats menu?
13:41:45 <Alberth> hmm, I did mean that, but I am having 2nd thoughts :)
13:42:03 <Alberth> 2 buttons for goals is also a bit too much imho
13:42:16 <planetmaker> well... it's not a bad suggestion, Alberth
13:42:40 <frosch123> hmm, the industry icon is actually weird
13:42:41 <Alberth> but if you make the max allowed toolbar width larger, then I don't see much of a problem for 2 goal buttons
13:42:59 <Alberth> but then the league cup button could stay too
13:43:00 <Zuu> The current convention to not have company selectors in windows, but in the main toolbar is the reason why I add two buttons.
13:43:23 <Zuu> Each of these buttons allow to select the story/goal window for a given company.
13:43:31 <frosch123> how about grouping the company-related stuff: expenses, manager, graphs, goals, story, league
13:43:55 <frosch123> and the authority stuff: maps, towns, industries, subsidies
13:44:17 <Alberth> Zuu: "The current convention to not have company selectors in windows" <-- false, look in the detailed performance rating window
13:44:28 <Zuu> hmm, the spacer location is wrong in that screenshot
13:44:37 <Zuu> It should be to the right of the industry button.
13:44:45 <frosch123> actually [map, town, industry, subsidies] [expenses, president, graphs, goals, story, league] [stations, vehicles]
13:45:08 <frosch123> basically swithcing the position of station list and industry list
13:45:29 <Zuu> Alberth: I know, and I wouldn't mind doing the same for these windows, but I have been told to do it this way instead.
13:46:43 <frosch123> i think the detailed rating is a wrong window :)
13:46:52 <frosch123> it was also not in ttd iirc
13:47:23 <frosch123> the reordering of the toolbar? or the detailed rating?
13:48:03 <frosch123> about the gs related toolbar stuff: [goals, story, league] or [story, goals, league] ?
13:48:31 <frosch123> goals feels short-term to me, story middle-term and league long-term
13:48:38 <Alberth> I wonder about moving the + and - to the 2nd to last group
13:50:20 <Alberth> I am not convinced you'd want 2 buttons for goal stuff
13:51:25 <Alberth> story just explains what goals there are and which will come, so you read that only a few times
13:52:13 <frosch123> i would rather drop the league button than the story button :p
13:52:40 <frosch123> but ok, might be important for competitive gaming :p
13:52:41 <Alberth> you're obviously not competitive enough in games :p
13:53:11 <frosch123> gah... changing the order of the toolbar is scary....
13:53:21 <frosch123> too many numbers :s
13:53:43 <Alberth> I'd do story, goals, as that's the order of use
13:54:53 <Alberth> league feels close to the graphs to me
13:55:07 <Zuu> frosch123: scary yes, but I soon have a working patch that inserts two buttons and re-adjust the existing numbers.
13:55:53 <Alberth> [expenses, president, story, goals, graphs, league] ?
13:58:00 <Zuu> put industyr at station and then station next to the vehicle lists?
13:59:03 <Zuu> For my current patch (introducing two buttons), I think that I will just put them where they are or moved left/right. Then a second patch could re-arenge buttons.
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14:07:00 <Alberth> moving subsidies to the last entry of its group makes sense to me
14:07:51 <Zuu> just what I was going to say :-)
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14:15:21 <Zuu> So the final toolbar would be like this:
14:15:32 <planetmaker> I nearly think we should scrap subsidies :D
14:16:20 <Zuu> What is needed is to allow GSes to stop OpenTTD to spawn the default subsidies if it provides subsidies of its own or just don't want them.
14:16:33 <Alberth> subsidies should be in the global stuff, near towns and industries
14:16:42 <planetmaker> I think zoom buttons should be right of build tools
14:17:05 <planetmaker> Or maybe in the left most group. right of FF
14:17:11 <Alberth> Zuu: GS should take over subsidies completely, perhaps?
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14:17:30 <planetmaker> thought about that, too ^
14:17:53 <Alberth> ie the default GS is the current subsidies
14:18:11 <Alberth> (04:16:42 PM) planetmaker: I think zoom buttons should be right of build tools <-- +1
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14:18:59 <Zuu> So the subsidies toolbar button should go into the end of the group [map, towns, industries]?
14:19:38 <planetmaker> when we're at the toolbar, even things like "take screenshot" could get a separate toolbar button
14:20:10 <planetmaker> screenshots already fill 4 entries in the right most menu
14:22:29 <planetmaker> nevertheless... throwing a main toolbar rework at Zuu is unfair :-)
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14:23:10 <planetmaker> zuu, switch zoom and next group?
14:23:13 <Zuu> planetmaker: I already plan to make an FS entry of it and leave it for later. The Story Book patch queue is already quite long.
14:23:42 <planetmaker> :-) as this shall not stop the storybook
14:24:17 <frosch123> separate screenshot button? are you insane? :p
14:24:21 <frosch123> when do you need those?
14:24:41 <planetmaker> screenshot no_con suitablename
14:24:43 <frosch123> i think they are fine in the "?" menu
14:24:54 <frosch123> then "?" menu is almost empty if you disable dev tools
14:25:32 <frosch123> i think the graph menu belogns more to expenses than to league
14:25:57 <Zuu> feel free to comment/edit it if you like
14:28:48 <planetmaker> :-) more on that from my side tomorrow. Have a good evening :)
14:29:11 <planetmaker> too awesome weather here to spend all day inside
14:30:24 <frosch123> hmm, yeah, the worst heat is gone
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16:52:39 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25334 trunk/src/linkgraph/linkgraph_gui.cpp (2013-06-08 16:52:33 UTC)
16:52:40 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Position the linkgraph legend window automatically like most windows.
16:54:24 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25335 /trunk/src (lang/english.txt toolbar_gui.cpp) (2013-06-08 16:54:19 UTC)
16:54:25 <DorpsGek> -Change: Revisit the map menu in scenario editor: Remove linkgraph legend, add industry list.
16:55:52 * frosch_ ponders upgrading to wheezy
16:59:49 <frosch_> you were on testing anyway, right?
16:59:52 <Rubidium> is the first point release already out?
17:00:12 <Rubidium> yes, I'm using unstable
17:00:14 <frosch_> oh, i should wait for .1 ? :)
17:00:51 <Rubidium> even though .0 is very stable, there'll always be some upgrade issues. I reckon that most of those will be solved in .1
17:01:25 <Rubidium> upgrade issues being the package resolver not figuring out what to do in the upgrade
17:01:54 <frosch_> well, i am actually not sure whether i should do a normal upgrade or a reinstall
17:02:08 <frosch_> i would pick kde instead of gnome now
17:02:28 <frosch_> so, i wonder whether an upgrade would result in installing lots which i would remove afterwards :p
17:02:40 <Rubidium> if you want to do that, then it might be useful to reinstall
17:02:59 <Rubidium> the upgrade would install the whole gnome stack
17:03:53 <Rubidium> unless you mark everything as upgrade, remove gnome and add kde before triggering aptitude to do the installation
17:05:15 <frosch_> maybe, but i don't think i have any advantage from an upgrade compared to reinstall
17:05:27 <frosch_> i won't be able to use the machine during the upgrade anyway
17:05:50 <frosch_> i am not doing so much stuff without X :p
17:08:24 <Alberth> learn vim while upgrading :p or use nano or so
17:45:58 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25336 trunk/src/lang/korean.txt (2013-06-08 17:45:51 UTC)
17:45:59 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:46:00 <DorpsGek> korean - 2 changes by telk5093
17:47:34 <Zuu> And quite some time to figure out how to not break the scenario editor.
17:49:27 <Zuu> hmm, and I forgot to GS API which adds some more changes. :-)
17:49:38 <frosch_> yeah, fancy arrays of numbers :)
17:51:21 <Zuu> I could possible reduce the size of the patch a little by adding the new buttons at the end and then in the default arrangment not have sequentual numbering of the buttons. But that will yield an end result that I see as slightly worse.
17:52:11 <frosch_> static const uint BIGGEST_ARRANGEMENT = 19; <- i am not quite sure what that does
17:52:15 <frosch_> maybe it needs increasing?
17:52:39 <Zuu> No, it should only be incresed if you add more arrangements. Which happen in patch 65 by the way :-)
17:54:27 <Zuu> That patch add an additional arrangment with the switch button where one more button slot is visible.
17:55:56 <Zuu> In order to hide a button, I will either have to create parallell arrangements for each combination or just only show the buttons that can be hidden in the arrange_all arrangement so that only that arrangement needs to be duplicated.
17:56:55 <frosch_> they no longer match the order of buttons
17:57:03 <frosch_> which won't work anyway if we hide them conditionally
17:57:32 <Zuu> hmm, also, I should kill the other hotkey that exist somewhere for the goal window.
17:57:44 <Zuu> And prefereable use the same name as used there.
17:59:17 <frosch_> shift f5/f6 are already zoom in/out
18:04:35 <Zuu> hmm, actually I can't find any evidence that the goal window previously had a hotkey hook.
18:05:21 <frosch_> well, since moving it to the top of the league menu it effectively has one
18:06:54 <Zuu> Though that is less than 100 revisions ago, thus the motivation for keeping backward compatibility with those who have set that hook for showing the goal window seems weak.
18:07:45 <Zuu> but I need to pick something else than shift + F5/F9
18:09:02 <frosch_> all F and shift+F are used :)
18:09:15 <Zuu> or leave them empty to leave more keys free by default so that players can pick which hotkeys are important for them.
18:09:16 <frosch_> you could try ctrl+F, or start removing hotkeys for silly menus
18:09:37 <frosch_> also, if we reorder them i think it would also be useful to reassign the hotkeys
18:09:59 <frosch_> yeah, keeping them empty would be good for a start :)
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18:11:46 <Zuu> The assignment in code is the default value when hotkeys.cfg is missing or when that hook is missing in the cfg. If a user upgrade from eg. 1.1 or so to 1.4 it will get the new values for hotkeys new in 1.4 but keep the old value for the buttons that existed in 1.1 unless we also rename all hook names at the same time.
18:15:21 <frosch_> we might need to figure something out to forcefully break the old config, but i don't think keeping hotkey comaptibitliy is a desireable goal
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20:41:08 <Samu> hi, suggestion: list all actions available at each town even if there's no money for it
20:41:47 <Samu> only those actions that are turned off on game settings wouldn't display
20:42:33 <Samu> because i was waiting forever tofund buildings
20:48:06 <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r25337 trunk/src/saveload/station_sl.cpp (2013-06-08 20:47:59 UTC)
20:48:07 <DorpsGek> -Fix: saving only 8 bits of 16 causes endianness problems
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