IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-06-06
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00:21:40 *** MysticalBurrito has joined #openttd
00:21:47 <MysticalBurrito> Could someone help me?
00:25:21 <samu> ewww lol, property maintenance costs with infrastructure costs
00:25:46 <samu> inflation + high costs + 4% interest, this is insane
00:25:58 <MysticalBurrito> I need help with the resolution for OpenTTD on my phone.
00:26:20 <glx> we don't support mobile version
00:26:48 <MysticalBurrito> I've looked everywhere for help with this. :/
00:27:41 <samu> 2 commuters: -£16,460,340 /yr
00:28:42 <MysticalBurrito> could I be linked to a site that might be able to help me?
00:29:47 <samu> who decided on these costs for airports?
00:32:00 <samu> omg... his aircraft just crashed
00:32:22 <MysticalBurrito> can someone link me to a site that could help me with PPCTTD?
00:33:16 <samu> i don't know what that is
00:35:07 <MysticalBurrito> PPCTTD Is the Pocket PC version of the original TTD
00:43:55 <samu> support@esoftinteractive.com
00:44:09 <samu> i seriously doubt they even exist
00:53:15 <MysticalBurrito> the OpenTTD page on esoft just lead me back to the forums
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12:02:26 <planetmaker> Zuu doesn't like my story books :-(
12:27:14 <Zuu> planetmaker: The user don't write the book
12:28:14 <Zuu> I do like the icon where you see the height of the book, but don't know if it fits the TTD style.
12:41:52 <planetmaker> That's true, it seems to not exactly fit the others
12:43:26 <planetmaker> But the plain sheets are very similar imho to the news icon
12:47:31 <planetmaker> with the pen I thought more instead of writing yourself it's the story as its being written
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14:30:58 <Samu> oh nice, a new version of OtviAI v418
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16:57:11 <Samu> intel iris pro reviews are insane, rip AMD
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17:01:13 <Samu> that's sad to see, wathcing those graphs, even puts nvidia into jeopardy
17:04:38 <Samu> it's still a quad-core cpu
17:04:56 <sla_ro|master> I like NVIDIA, beside the price
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17:25:32 <Samu> I'm coming into a scoring scheme for the existing OpenTTD AIs
17:26:22 <Samu> an average score for each AI, running 16 different settings
17:27:24 <Samu> and using excel this time, at least I can sort columns
17:27:37 <ksf> so... split before you join, *all times and always*?
17:27:43 <Samu> notepad would make me lost
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17:29:00 <Samu> hi ksf, wrong channel or did i miss somethnig
17:29:20 <ksf> nah, I just crashed in and defined the topic to be hub design.
17:30:55 <Samu> hmm I missed something :(
17:32:09 <ksf> the usual problem with joining lines before you split is that that's prone to jamming.
17:33:31 <ksf> the formula in frankfurt, for the lower horizontal lane from left to right is split, join, split, join, though.
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17:39:45 <V453000> if you are trying to justify your broken game logic with a real-life road junction, good luck
17:40:17 <V453000> [yes split before join]
17:41:53 <ksf> it works because the join->split path actually only ever has crossing vehicles if they want to reverse.
17:42:56 <ksf> ...you could completely separate those lanes and end up with a pure split before join, at the expense of reversing.
17:43:38 <ksf> the question, here, is "is the rarest of rare cases worth the bother".
17:45:11 <V453000> why would you even let trains reverse in your junction
17:45:22 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25323 /trunk/src/lang (hungarian.txt traditional_chinese.txt) (2013-06-06 17:45:14 UTC)
17:45:23 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:24 <DorpsGek> traditional_chinese - 34 changes by siu238X
17:45:25 <DorpsGek> hungarian - 5 changes by Brumi
17:45:29 <Pinkbeast> Er, it sounds more like "are real-world motorway junctions a good guide to designing OTTD railway junctions" (to which the answer is "no")
17:45:33 <V453000> if they need to reverse there is something seriously wrong on your network
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17:46:02 <Pinkbeast> Or, and I know what you're going to say, one has chased off after a depot oblivious to where that will take it next
17:46:13 <ksf> accidents can happen, especially when changing stuff.
17:46:42 <Pinkbeast> If you want to let trains reverse that can be done without futzing with complex junctions.
17:49:36 <ksf> you mean by futzing with equally complex reverse points?
17:50:13 <ksf> (that never get any kind of traffic)
17:50:39 <Pinkbeast> No; reversing can be done very simply if it is only to be used when mistakes happen, hence capacity not much of an issue.
17:51:13 <ksf> yes. and because capacity is not an issue, it can be done safely in a hub.
17:51:33 <ksf> ...even with join before split *for this case only*, as it's not going to jam anything.
17:52:23 <Pinkbeast> The junction you posted isn't join before split for this case only. (It's traffic crossing traffic for this case only).
17:54:19 <ksf> ...which implies join before split.
17:56:08 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25324 /trunk/bin/baseset (8 files) (2013-06-06 17:56:02 UTC)
17:56:09 <DorpsGek> -Update: the baseset translations
17:56:10 <Pinkbeast> It's also join before split for plenty of other cases.
17:56:46 <ksf> the vertical paths all support complete lane separation.
17:56:55 <Pinkbeast> X implies Y does not imply Y implies X; join before split does not imply traffic crossing traffic - trivially so when the mainline is one line each way
17:58:30 <ksf> ...note that you're not supposed to split off from the mainline and then later re-join the same one.
17:58:45 <Pinkbeast> On the face of it that junction looks like a classic example of what's wrong with join before split; extra capacity added in the junction to compensate. Trivial in this case; not so much in OTTD-land where a lane has quite a significant width.
17:59:56 <ksf> that's 4m per lane on the autobahn
18:00:58 <Pinkbeast> Er yes, and the junction is perhaps 800m across. An OTTD junction 200 tiles across might be felt to be unsatisfactory.
18:01:28 <ksf> well, it's only got three lanes.
18:01:53 <Pinkbeast> I have no idea what that's meant to convey.
18:02:07 <Pinkbeast> An OTTD lane is wider in relative terms than a real one.
18:02:39 <ksf> trains are generally relatively big in OTTD.
18:03:02 <ksf> from the POV of the trains, at least.
18:03:13 <Pinkbeast> ksf: I am well aware of these things, yes - so what?
18:04:32 <Pinkbeast> The point is that on that thing, adding another pair of lanes parallel to the "mainline", or two, has essentially zero effect on junction size.
18:04:57 <Pinkbeast> Do that in the middle of an OTTD junction and it adds a significant amount to junction size.
18:05:52 <ksf> you have to bulid those lanes one way or the other.
18:06:10 <Samu> question, when starting a new company, could the color chosen be more random than it is?
18:06:17 <Pinkbeast> No, you don't! The whole point is that join before split demands extra capacity in the junction.
18:06:46 <Samu> it's not random enough :p
18:07:30 <ksf> if the intersection would join the cars coming from the lower left, driving upwards, early, then it'd have to have a separate lane for them. at the exact same place, just separate.
18:07:53 <ksf> the intersection is, to 99%, split before join when you make those dotted lines solid.
18:08:34 <ksf> ...the only thing where things, yes, cross, are the reversing cases.
18:08:43 <Pinkbeast> I think I am now sated with the thick field of incomprehension. Bye.
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18:21:30 <Samu> i have another little suggestion: when the game is paused, could the ***PAUSED*** text located at the news tooltip blink?
18:21:52 <Eddi|zuHause> that would be terrible
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18:23:01 <Samu> sometimes my parents call for help with the game, only to find out the train wasn't starting because the game was paused
18:23:35 <Samu> spending half an hour investigating why it wouldn't start, turns out it's paused, :(
18:24:33 <blathijs> Eddi|zuHause: Why would that be terrible?
18:25:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i hate blinking stuff that distracts me from what i'm actually doing
18:27:52 <blathijs> Oh, I misread the request
18:28:17 <blathijs> I thought it was "Put ***PAUSED*** in news area", but it's already there
18:28:27 <blathijs> Blinking is probably not so cool, then :-)
18:30:29 <Samu> if not blinking, then something visually obvious to catch attention
18:32:43 <alluke> openttdcoop welcome server is the first good openttdcoop serverive found
18:32:50 <Eddi|zuHause> every time you make something idiot-proof, someone invents a better idiot
18:33:33 <Samu> im not hosting any game today alluke
18:33:50 <alluke> i didnt even ask you to do so
18:34:32 <V453000> right lets ask why do the newgrfs suck alluke :)
18:36:02 <V453000> not to mention that they change there with every game, so your statement is quite fragile
18:36:11 <frosch123> "SetSet" <- awesome function name :)
18:36:19 <alluke> like dutch station set to dutch addition set
18:38:20 <V453000> sometimes they are there yes
18:38:42 <V453000> I dont think a station set is terribly vital to a newGRF setup though
18:43:06 <V453000> therefore I am still waiting for a reason why the newGRF setup sucks :)
18:45:03 <alluke> but id add more trainsets
18:45:42 <V453000> I dont think the current train set there has anything missing
18:46:04 <V453000> multiple train sets are an option with bad train sets which have holes
18:46:17 <V453000> like ukrs2, nars2, tropic refurbishment set, somewhat japanese train set
18:46:42 <alluke> i didnt mean mixed sets
18:47:14 <alluke> but you could have one complete train from db set and another one from fts
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18:49:19 <V453000> no, wtf did you mean by that
18:49:22 <V453000> one complete train from 2 sets
18:49:29 <V453000> without mixing two sets in one game
18:50:08 <alluke> complete train from one set
18:50:27 <V453000> what is a complete train?
18:50:38 <alluke> loco and coaches from same set
18:50:56 <frosch123> V453000: wheels and an engine?
18:51:10 <V453000> right, every train set has that
18:51:19 <V453000> so why do you suggest to add more train sets
18:52:03 <V453000> one of them is usually better to choose
18:53:16 <V453000> and/or they have different speeds etc, so you in the end use only one of them anyway
18:53:39 <alluke> some sets have better passenger stuff and some have better freight stuff
18:53:58 <V453000> which part is NUTS missing
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18:54:38 <alluke> im talking about the current welcome server game
18:54:46 <alluke> i never use nuts anyway
18:55:06 <V453000> and in the current welcome server game is nuts afaik
18:55:17 <alluke> theres temperate game with polish set
18:55:29 <alluke> the previous toyland was rubbish
18:55:44 <alluke> purple company is mine :P
19:02:27 <Samu> the best AI for today's testing is currently: WrightAI
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19:03:38 <Samu> PathZilla vs WrightAI vs Rythorn Airline AI - each one soloing
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19:25:16 <V453000> good that will kill you soon
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19:59:24 <frosch123> who keeps emptying my coffee mug?
20:00:04 <Rubidium> frosch123: it's not me
20:09:42 * Alberth is drinking tea currently
20:10:04 <Eddi|zuHause> must be snow white
20:10:30 <Eddi|zuHause> "wer hat aus meinem Becherchen getrunken"?
20:11:23 <Rubidium> oh... *that* snow white
20:22:53 <Samu> here's something I did with trains, i was very bored that day
20:23:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i should just ban all microsoft sites, they never load
20:24:50 <Samu> it works, until I found out I could only put 15 trains there
20:25:13 <Samu> decided to investigate and came up with all those signs
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20:25:55 <perk11> why do you use two-way tracks?
20:26:17 <perk11> 3 tracks one way and 3 tracks other way would work with any amount of trains
20:26:30 <perk11> untill all th tracks are full
20:27:57 <Rubidium> you get pretty creative when there are AIs around making messy "obstacles"
20:30:45 <frosch123> i assume the steel trains are from the ai :)
20:31:48 <alluke> lol do you call that a steel train
20:32:26 <Rubidium> alluke: it carries 404 at most
20:33:04 <alluke> looks like its still syncing
20:33:16 <Rubidium> longer trains don't work, since the lower station is at maximum length
20:33:22 <alluke> either db or my inter net is fucked up
20:34:01 <Rubidium> and the three trains are timed in such a manner that they do not interfere with eachother, but that needs the third track
20:35:31 <frosch123> hmm, the stations signs should have given me a hint earlier :s
20:36:04 <V453000> wow you managed to construct a train with higher capacity
20:36:12 <perk11> alluke: and why is it called "Stalin"?
20:36:25 <alluke> because it means steel
20:36:25 <frosch123> i expected a rl photo...
20:36:58 <perk11> and there was a train called Iosif Stalin
20:37:04 <frosch123> is the joke that the train is very old, so it is scrap metal by itself?
20:38:13 <frosch123> yeah, old trains carrying steel can almost achieve 100% payload
20:38:34 <alluke> and dont require unloading
20:38:43 <frosch123> you can drive the whole train directly into the furnace
20:39:14 <frosch123> maybe some wagons could also be loaded with coal
20:39:42 <alluke> the driver just needs to jump out
20:41:12 <perk11> so when I saw the link I thought you have it in openttd :)
20:41:55 <alluke> google translate says that stal means steel
20:42:02 <alluke> i guess stalin means made of steel
20:42:31 <perk11> no it doesn't mean anything, except the name
20:42:53 <perk11> Google Translate is pretty bad with russian translation
20:43:27 <perk11> the word for steel is stal :)
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21:45:29 <alluke> why the fuck is itunes 390 mb?????
21:45:34 <alluke> its just a music player
21:46:45 <alluke> that included security update
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22:14:40 <Eddi|zuHause> who the what now?
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