IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-04-07
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07:57:31 <Flygon> I feel I have learned a curse with CargoDist
07:57:40 <Flygon> Lack of forward compatibilty with certain saves D:
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08:38:45 <Alberth> I'd say you've come to appreciate the compability provided by standard openttd :)
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10:15:37 <frosch123> "/* There is always one platform that doesn't support basic commands... */" <- yay, ottd comments :)
10:16:43 <DorpsGek> Commit by zuu :: r25158 extra/musa/type.py (2013-04-07 10:16:37 UTC)
10:16:44 <DorpsGek> [musa] -Fix (25145): Remove useless code
10:18:39 <DorpsGek> Commit by zuu :: r25159 extra/musa/scriptid.py (2013-04-07 10:18:33 UTC)
10:18:40 <DorpsGek> [musa] -Fix (25145): Was to restrictive when detecting short name of script
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10:29:55 <DorpsGek> Commit by zuu :: r25160 extra/musa/misc.py (2013-04-07 10:29:49 UTC)
10:29:56 <DorpsGek> [musa] -Fix: Undefined variable in validation of dependencies using short name
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11:09:28 <DorpsGek> Commit by zuu :: r25161 extra/musa/musa.py (2013-04-07 11:09:22 UTC)
11:09:29 <DorpsGek> [musa] -Fix: Remove unnecessary check
11:20:29 <DorpsGek> Commit by zuu :: r25162 /extra/musa (4 files) (2013-04-07 11:20:23 UTC)
11:20:30 <DorpsGek> [musa] -Feature: New command (depgen.py) for extracting content type, uniqueid and md5sum from content tar files and print a dependency string for using in your musa .ini files
12:04:23 <DorpsGek> Commit by zuu :: r25163 /extra/musa (14 files) (2013-04-07 12:04:18 UTC)
12:04:24 <DorpsGek> [musa] -Fix: Set eol-style properties of all musa files
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15:26:11 <V453000> helloooo ... is it somehow possible to contol the visual effect based on the position in consist of the vehicle? I cant seem to be able to put a switch instead of the VISUAL_EFFECT_DEFAULT :s visual_effect_and_powered: visual_effect_and_powered(VISUAL_EFFECT_DEFAULT, 0, DISABLE_WAGON_POWER);
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16:05:19 <V453000> frosch123: any clues how? :s
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16:27:40 <Snail> in m4nfo that'd be easy
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16:37:48 <Rubidium> in C it'd be even easier
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17:45:21 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25164 /trunk/src/lang (serbian.txt unfinished/faroese.txt) (2013-04-07 17:45:14 UTC)
17:45:22 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:23 <DorpsGek> faroese - 276 changes by FastNinja
17:45:24 <DorpsGek> serbian - 28 changes by ivan_mile
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18:04:32 <Snail> question... how is nfo var 00 (= date) handled before 1920? does it have negative values?
18:06:59 <Rubidium> likewise the max is capped as well (probably at 2090)
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18:07:24 <Rubidium> you're better off using 23 or 24
18:08:00 <Snail> how about the date of the last maintenance if that occurs before 1920?
18:08:43 <Rubidium> unless you use the "long date"
18:08:53 <Rubidium> then it's the date since 1-1-1 (or so)
18:09:12 <Snail> hmmm... this sounds useful
18:09:31 <Snail> any particular steps I need to do to use the "long date" in nfo?
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18:12:15 <Rubidium> probably not much, it's roughly the same as the short dates with another epoch and larger range (dword instead of word)
18:13:17 <Rubidium> the only caveat is that only openttd supports long dates in stable releases
18:13:38 <Rubidium> but doesn't m4nfo just do long dates right?
18:14:09 <Snail> m4nfo seems to do dates starting from 1920
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18:34:55 <DorpsGek> Commit by zuu :: r25165 extra/musa/type.py (2013-04-07 18:34:50 UTC)
18:34:56 <DorpsGek> [musa] -Fix(25145): Server want to validate before the tar has been uploaded
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19:30:16 <Snail> would introducing maximum ranges for locomotives (a bit like for planes) be possible at all?
19:30:49 <Snail> so for example, in the early years, a small tank locomotive would be able to only do shorter trips between two stations than a large tender loco
19:39:11 <andythenorth> think you can fake that in newgrf
19:39:19 <andythenorth> probably, using a nasty thing on cb 36
19:40:21 <planetmaker> Not sure. You can't access the order distance there. Nor how long you travelled since the last station
19:40:42 <planetmaker> And the distance on rails can be MUCH longer than the station distance as determined by the distance as the bird flies
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19:41:26 <andythenorth> just give a range in days travel?
19:41:38 <andythenorth> reset on visiting a depot
19:42:06 <planetmaker> yes. visiting a depot. Time since service is available
19:46:00 <V453000> does the image change over time?
19:46:10 <V453000> would be nice if it did like every 4 seconds
19:46:47 <Snail> planetmaker: you mean time since service or time of last service?
19:47:08 <Snail> I think it's the latter (i.e. it gives you the absolute date of the last service)
19:51:09 <planetmaker> both can be obtained
19:55:41 <frosch123> iirc the date of last service is only a short date
19:55:53 <frosch123> so time since service fails outside 1920-2050
19:56:02 <frosch123> or whatever the upper limit might e
19:56:53 <Snail> frosch123: so there is no "long date" corresponding var to the date of last service?
19:57:25 <frosch123> check the wiki if you want to know for sure :)
19:57:37 <andythenorth> V453000: I could carousel it, but some people find them *very* annoying :)
19:57:56 <frosch123> random image on load is fine
19:58:01 <frosch123> it's not nuts after all
19:58:26 <frosch123> and visitors might not immediately notice that it is different every time they visit
20:00:25 <frosch123> Snail: oh, apparently someone added it to ottd 1.2
20:00:42 <frosch123> i guess cets needed it then or so :p
20:00:58 <Snail> hehe, I'd need it too. Where did you see that?
20:03:54 <frosch123> hmm, or should i say, i talk grf?
20:04:01 <frosch123> i guess there is no big difference
20:04:10 <Snail> I was searching "maintenance", not "service", this is why I couldn't find it :)
20:07:35 <Snail> anyway for my initial idea (range for locos) the pathfinder should ideally be queried when the player inputs the orders, and should prevent orders for which the traveled distance is > X tiles
20:07:41 <Snail> would this be possible?
20:13:31 <frosch123> Snail: noone knows where a train is really going to
20:13:48 <Snail> not even the pathfinder?
20:14:03 <frosch123> take a look at self regulating networks on coop, for an extreme case
20:14:10 <frosch123> there is not a single target for a train
20:14:24 <planetmaker> the orders can be changed anytime
20:14:26 <frosch123> it decides again on every junction
20:14:32 <planetmaker> thus you don't know where it goes after it left a station
20:14:53 <frosch123> trains do not even need orders
20:15:31 <Snail> and there is no such variable that tells you the tiles traveled since the last station, right?
20:16:16 <frosch123> unlikely, there was never a use in that
20:16:32 <frosch123> you might get the cargo age, but that is kept when transfering cargo
20:17:24 <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> i guess cets needed it then or so :p <-- i don't think i requested that one, it was "just there", i think
20:20:44 <Eddi|zuHause> nml uses this variable since Oct 2011, so this is loooong before
20:21:13 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, might be that I wanted it... :-)
20:24:14 <V453000> andythenorth: fair enough :)
20:28:19 <Snail> does last maintenance also apply to wagons?
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20:35:27 <frosch123> just check the front vehicle?
20:38:50 <Snail> right, that's what I guess I'll have to do
20:41:09 <planetmaker> it can't even ever make a difference ;-)
20:43:08 <Eddi|zuHause> service date is only valid for the front vehicle
20:43:49 <Eddi|zuHause> (i.e. always check the related object)
20:45:13 <Eddi|zuHause> in CETS i add a random time (up to 3 years) to the service date, to change liveries over time. but this "feature" is mostly untested
20:45:47 <Snail> Eddi: so to go from "old" livery schemes to "new" ones?
20:46:02 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, repainting after depot visit
20:47:15 <Snail> I was thinking about doing something similar too... I'm a bit undecided
20:47:30 <Snail> yours is a good way to reach realism (i.e. old liveries disappear after a certain time)
20:47:44 <Snail> but if we keep old vehicles in their old liveries, we have more in-game variety :p
20:48:10 <Snail> so I still don't know which way to go for my set
20:48:30 <Eddi|zuHause> the idea was to provide a parameter "change immediately"/"change after servicing"/"keep old livery forever"
20:50:16 <Snail> "change immediately" sounds a bit unrealistic doesn't it? :p
20:50:48 <Snail> like having workers hanging out of a moving loco and repainting it as it travels :D
20:51:23 <Eddi|zuHause> but you need something for people that don't do servicing
20:52:07 <planetmaker> quite common for people who play w/o breakdowns, tbh
20:52:43 <Eddi|zuHause> the default should be "change after servicing"
20:54:01 <Eddi|zuHause> but if anyone wants to test the feature, the ET 87 might be a good candidate, just buy a bunch of those in 1920-ish and let them drive around for 30-50 years on fast foward, see when they change colours
20:54:19 <Snail> I see... the thing of using a parameter is not bad idea
20:54:53 <Snail> so you put the "new" livery if the last servicing date is after a certain (absolute) date + a random number
20:55:13 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, something like this
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20:58:22 <Superuser> __ln__: /r/linux much
20:58:56 <__ln__> i don't know what you're talking aboot
21:01:34 <Eddi|zuHause> so this vehicle has 4 liveries, one before 1924, one from 1924 to 1929, one from 1929 to 1940, and one from 1940 onwards
21:02:34 <Eddi|zuHause> apparently there was (or still is) no nml-ese name for var 0xFA :)
21:02:56 <Eddi|zuHause> which are supposedly the random bits
21:03:12 <Superuser> it was posted there just now, hehe
21:04:42 <Eddi|zuHause> "<!-- Oh noes, you found it! -->"
21:10:05 <Superuser> would highly recommend y'all paste this into your term
21:11:22 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: I'd guess NML has a name for var 5F though, which is the documented way for random bits.
21:12:06 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: i'm not entirely sure why i chose this
21:14:12 <Eddi|zuHause> Superuser: why does that need so much code?
21:14:54 <Superuser> heh, it's a shell script
21:15:35 <michi_cc> Hmm, is that var somewhere accessed through var 61 maybe? 5F was initially not possible this way and only added later.
21:15:36 <Eddi|zuHause> really interesting way of checking whether a file exists :p
21:16:30 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: as far as i can see, it accesses the parent vehicle only, no var61 magic
21:16:55 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe that was intended but never used, so it might have factored into this
21:18:16 <Eddi|zuHause> "switch = Switch" which idiot wrote this code? :p
21:21:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't find var 5F in the wiki
21:23:01 <Eddi|zuHause> and it's a particularly verbose description :/
21:23:10 <michi_cc> NML should simply be random_bits
21:24:00 <michi_cc> It all doesn't really matter though, as at least for trains in OTTD, var FA will do it as well.
21:24:30 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i'll just leave it
21:33:15 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, and somehow Xorg is hogging the CPU while openttd is running in fast forward, leaving almost nothing for openttd :/
21:35:56 <Eddi|zuHause> almost like there's no 2D acceleration
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22:39:04 <Eddi|zuHause> never seen that before
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